Religiosity, National Ethos and Governance

Re: # 93 I must accept the truism put across by your correspondant, and your correct observation: we have Muslim bigotry of 7th -10th century to thank for this!!
Our leaders and politicians are not up to it, and it looks like we have to suffer on......
Looks like this article and post has lost further appeal for discussion/debate!!

Re: # 92

Mateen

The problem in fact is not having any faith but treating other faiths as 'kufr' and believers in those faiths deserving to be lynched, not sparing even those carrying the lable of Muslim.

Just see this letter I got from somewhere:

"Islam and Muslims

Sir: A Western philosopher once said that “Islam is probably the best religion but its followers are the worst of all religions�. The decline of the Islamic world in the past 500 years is clear evidence that Muslims themselves are to blame. At the heart of the matter is a widespread belief among Muslim populations that they are God’s chosen and preferred people and superior to others.

That makes approximately 4.8 billion people (3/4th of the world) infidel, kaafir and jahanammi. The fallacy and absurdity of this idealism has pitched Islamic civilisation against the rest of the world. Do we ever pause to think why Muslims are involved in conflicts in most regions of the world? Why can’t they get along with anyone? I believe this is because most Muslims seem to be unable to respect other civilisations. Religion should be a means of ending people’s suffering not increasing them. One can only hope that the Muslims become less arrogant and learn to live amicably with people of other religions. That alone will lead to a lasting peace in the world."
(IMRAN MOHAMMAD KHAN
Pennsylvania)

Everyone who 'submits' to the creed of 'Tauheed' and the acceptance of 'Peace', is considered a 'Muslim': I have taken a very large canvas to define what is arguably the most contentious of definitions, and cause for much harm and 'fitna'.
It also is the terribly brittle basis for the many 'fiqahs' amongst the Mussalma'an - despite the many lucid warnings and exhortations in The Qura'an and Hadees.
Actually, from a reading of the more renowned translations and commentaries of the Qura'an, Maulanas Maududi, Yusuf Ali and Jallandhri/Dehalvi, it may be assumed that the word 'Muslim' derives from both 'tasleem' and 'sullam' i.e 'accept' and 'submit' e.g. "Salley-a Allah-u wa'a ala'e-hi' wa'a sulla'm". There may be more pronounced meanings attributable to this word, which does not occur as such in any Revelation or Hadees.
I would have lots of reservations reading Justice Munir's Report of the 1953 happenings: suffice it to state that I firmly believe that no man is qualified to declare anybody as either a 'munafiq' or 'kafir' - or certify to any group being beyond the pale of 'believers'. Also, Allah Almighty had prohibited even The Prophet [PBUH] from casting anyone as a 'momin' or 'disbeliever', awaiting Allah's Judgement on the Day of Resurrection and Final Pronouncement. Wa kafa'a bi-Allah-i Wakeel-u'nn.
Both Zia ul Haque and Zulfiqar Bhutto stand indicted for causing immense harm to Islam and all Muslims in general, Pakistani Nation in particular. And I firmly subscribe to the theory of Pakistan being ONE NATION of diverse Faiths, Beliefs, languages, cultural nuances and, above all, the 'secularism' which was practiced and annointed in the 'Meesaq-e-Madinah' and the Last Khutbah.
The core of my suggestive re-structuring of State and Constitution given in this paper, is founded on an understanding of Islam being [what I understand and think] as truly completely "Muslim" as possible.
Over to you, Zyxius!

Re: # 18

Zyxius

Can you define the term 'Muslim' you use so profusely? In this connection I will advise you to read 'Munir Inquiry Report', if not already done. According to this judicial Inquiry the self-styled 'Ulema' had failed to have consensual definition of the term 'Muslim'. Despite that, later on the very Constitution was turned into a 'fatwa' by ZAB whose own faith was questionable with the Islam-Pasands. This constitutional fatwa had an earth-shaking effect when still later on Zia used it as a handle to make the faith of all the citizens of Pakistan who claimed to be Muslims questionable requiring a disgraceful affidavit (Half-namah)to be signed by them each time they desired to be certified as such.

Ironically, only this 'Fatwa' stands ground even when the Constitution is held in abeyance.

#89 Thank You, teshah!
Unfortunately, you seem to have given up at the point of quote of Ayesha Jalal: you should hve continued....it gets a bit more 'interesting' if for no other reason than that it is substantially different from the what I can discern in the multitude of cursing or polemic in the many write-ups on this forum [chowk.com]: I feel a total lack of clarity on WHAT is wrong and WHAT needs to be done.
Perhaps, it may be prudent to start from questioning the premise and concept that 'parliamentary democracy' is what the doctor ordered for Pakistan. How about giving a shot at understanding what Jinnah wanted for Pakistan?
Can we suggest Chowk Editors to invite comments / views from: Janab Sharif al Mujahid , Dr. Parvez Hoodbhoy, Janab Qazi Faez al Issa, Prof Anwar Syed [his write-up, "Dealing with an emergency", DAWN, 11th November 2007, is a sort of sequel to a long list of revealing/suggestive political frame-work for Pakistan], and many other apolitical commentators?

A really thought provoking article or may it be called a pamphlet, titled 'Lamahe Fikreehah"!

I could read only a portion of it and stopped at the quote from Ayesha "A country in search of a nation".
In fact that is the crux of the problem as Pakistan is neither a 'country' nor have a nation but is a Federation of Nationalities. It recalls to me a statement made by a Kashmiri Leader a few years ago. While opposing accession to Pakistan he was of the opinion that since Kashmiries are a nation it was for nation-less Pakistanies who should accede to Kashmir, if they so wish.

Kulharee writes "#82 Masadi joker ki aulad, you have no problem dragging other people's relative, and now you have your panties in a bunch if someone mentions quran? do you have any shame you a-hole? "

As was expected the Chowk staff took no notice of this post even though I had highligheted it and took no action against Kulharee, while every benign post of mine is censored by them and I am banned time and again for over 24 hour periods. Why you ask?, it is because of my ideas and ideas alone, they want to run this damn site as a PTV propaganda network, only that they don't represent the propaganda of the peons but what to present the propaganda of the US elite. It will be no wonder if reading this they decide to ban me again-

Re: # 86

mateen mian,

.... sorry, but i don't have the stomach to read this crap - it is a sorry attempt at obfuscation ......

.... if you can post a fifty word summary i promise to read it .......

A real pity that the likes of laddu, hamidm2, majumdar, kulharee are still 'clawing' space on this site: leaves one with a bitter taste for the loss of really clean, stimulating discourse based on reason and well-read discussion/debate.
Please get a life, you people: at least go over the write-up and pass plausible comments that are half-decent!!

Maj writes "So what were the Afghans supposed to do? Become peons of the Russian elite?"

If they were not peons of their own ignorance they could have avoided being peons of the Jihadists who were peons of the Americans...

#82 Masadi joker ki aulad, you have no problem dragging other people's relative, and now you have your panties in a bunch if someone mentions quran? do you have any shame you a-hole?

Masadi sahib,

So what were the Afghans supposed to do? Become peons of the Russian elite?

Regards

hamid writes "as the koran says, "verily, we are screwed!""

Leave the Quran out of this you moron. You don't have to abandon all sense of decency to make a point. Get some morals....

maj writes "You cant blame the Afghans for fighting for their liberty.."

Just like they are fighting for their "liberty" in Pakistan, a "liberty" to end all liberty? Long before the Soviets stepped in to protect their turf as against the other players, these rag tags were fighting the local authorities

Re: # 68

"No Laddu-Ji, but we will surely make you a head-less 'pateela' and plant a 'Buta' in it."

In short it is some thing that no idolator or non muslim should think about.

The truth is that in a mullah's fantasy land the non muslims can not exist at all!!!

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