Reflections During a US Visa Grind

Re: # 60
The presumptions are remarkable and hilarious. Nowhere does the article say that the writer experienced this as an applicant or has not lived in the US. For all a reader knows, the writer could be a US citizen accompanying a non-citizen friend just to experience what his government dishes out to human beings in the name of his security. Unless one is a bigoted American policy-maker or voted for such, one's apology is presumptuous and self-important. Nobody, least of all the writer of this article, cares for an apology from an ordinary American citizen - a misled victim of bad education, patriotic media, and money politics. Indeed, a pitiable creature brainwashed with "This is the greatest country in the world." It is the policy makers in America who need to apologise to humanity for the instability and injustice they have spread in the world through their hubris. Even then, who in their right mind would accept the apology? One can't ruin a whole planet and then just apologise. America is paying for what it has done, and it will continue to pay until it is no longer powerful enough to be unjust. The world will settle for no less, and will accept no apologies. So please, no self-important and presumptuous apologies. Americans have written far more scathing accounts of their sordid governments than this article. So, for all anyone knows, an American wrote this one too. And don't be surprised if that's true.

Zeerak:

As an American I owe you an apology for the way you were treated. I do take issue, however, with your characterization of our values and principles. You may be pleasantly surprised if you lived here and interacted with us. Please don't be so quick to judge.

Ejaz

Many thanks to everyone who has taken the trouble to comment. Apologies to those who were offended by the point-of-view because they misunderstood, and gratitude to those who weren't because they understood. Some even came out in defense, and that is simply touching. A few clarifications are due, in all humility.

First, what is the point-of-view of this piece? It is that of a person committed only to freedom and equality, not to any national, religious, security, or economic interest. Indeed, this viewpoint shuns national or religious loyalties and holds nothing sacred. From such a viewpoint, the preservation of human dignity is paramount and it is laughable to be "secure" in a world which is neither free nor equal. Jails are secure too and yet it is worthless to live in one forever. If a person with such a viewpoint visits a US diplomatic mission, he can only relate his experiences of that - not of an Arab mission he has never visited. When he does, he might find the process equally dehumanising or less or more so. If a process is designed to treat people as less than human, it speaks ill of its designers whether they are from America, Pakistan, the Arab world, or elsewhere. All these countries may be safer, arguably, becuase of their dehumanizing treatment of many human beings in the last few years - whether in Islamabad, Guantanamo, or elsewhere - but they are not better places to live. America is no exception. Its case is particularly glaring because, unlike others who never idealized freedom or equality, it has forsaken its own ideals in a misguided attempt at security.

Second, what is the point of this piece? It is simply to describe a dehumanizing process and the thoughts it yields in a mind committed to freedom and equality. There are millions of such processes in effect all over the world, perhaps more in Muslim countries than in non-Muslim, but all of them cannot be described in one article. One may only describe what one experiences. No love or hate is implied, either for America or Pakistan, but if one observes Pakistanis debasing themselves voluntarily and Americans mistreating them with impunity then what choice does one have except to relate the evidence?

Once again, thanks for reading and commenting. Let's keep it civil and impersonal.

Dear Zeerak, I read your article. You have a tremendous flow in your writing. Its hilarious & revealing hidden truths. I would prefer to read all your future wittings.
Great….!

I remember the queues in Bombay when I'd gone to get a tourist visa. Any wonder that has been my only trip? there are other places I'd like to visit in the US, but I can only swallow my self-respect for so long-well done VRV!
The Indian guards were rude and aggressive-insistent on speaking English with their compatriots, with strong eastern UP accents- and the visa applicants were so submissive it was humiliating to watch them. I think the least we can expect is that foreign missions behave in the manner government services do in their own countries-that is, I do not expect friendliness, but I do expect a degree of courtesy.
No one seems to have noticed on chowk, btw that US tourist arrivals have fallen recently.

dash dot writes "with this profile it dont matter Masada - black brown green yellow or blue you will be frisked body searched and cavities lit up."

Not at all, many with similar profiles but lighter skin colors and demeanors to match sail right through, what lights up the "cavities" are stereotypes of the pigs that themselves think at the fifth grade level, that and your command of English and nature of accent determines who will be frisked and who wont, Racial/ethnic profiling is what is practiced, the pigs incharge of singling out folk don't have the intelligence to go much beyond that...

dash dot writes "So please stop this "colour of skin" shit "

There is no crap there, aggregate statistics of the US reveal great difference on a society wide level based on skin color, not to mention the grand history of genocide the world over by the white elite based on race, including the Atlantic Slave Trade which was a new form of slavery based and justified on skin color alone. Regarding Saudi Arabia, it is mere imitation racism of their white masters where the white pay scale is much higher than the local Arabs, and due to the kind of labor that goes from our countries reflects the stereotypes and status assigned to them. We have had this discussion before and you as usual have no clue just BS.

...not to mention the income and wealth factor, that group intermarries for the purpose of wealth consolidation, class consciousness is very strong among the members of this elite but not as strong as the race factor where dating and marriage is concerned...

Hamid wrote " are you saying that you actually went to bed with a nice christian white girl ... "

I didn't state anything about the "bed" part and members of the US elite wont let their daughters date me because of the race/ethnicity/national origin factor

Re: # 48
Well said....Bhai Dash and Dot
And again the similar startling insight in a humourous tone....

you indulge and propagate the same biased misconceptions about America and Americans that you claim Americans learn from CNN and NBC about Muslims. If you hate America so much, America is better off without you. It is easy not going through the hell you have described. Don't apply. Instead apply to your rich Arab braaders who are the epitome of non-racist, non-communal and non-elitist societies. I am sure they will welcome you with dates and honey in their embassies.

how dare the US single out purelanders!!!

Official: Militant Pakistani group causes terror concerns in New York

NEW YORK: A follower of an Islamic militant group caused a previously undisclosed scare in 2004 when someone in his truck took mobile phone photos of the support structures of the Brooklyn and Williamsburg bridges, a police official said.

The New York Police Department uncovered the suspected reconnaissance mission in Manhattan while investigators already were on alert that Pakistani immigrants loyal to the radical Sunni group, Sipah-e-Sahaba, were in the city "and possibly up to no good," said Paul Browne, the NYPD's top spokesman.

The spokesman detailed the bridge episode in response to a report on Friday in the Daily News that the NYPD was involved in the detention of a member of the group who is purportedly wanted in Pakistan for the assassination of a Shiite leader.

The NYPD has credited one of its intelligence analysts with piecing together evidence that the suspect, Akhtar Hussain Muawia, had used an alias to slip into the United States after the 1997 assassination and was working as a clerk at a grocery store in Jersey City, New Jersey, across the Hudson River from New York.

Muawia, 33, was detained in May and is fighting deportation. His attorney has denied he was involved in the killing or any acts of terrorism.
Today in Americas
8 injured as gunmen fire on student protesters in Caracas
Bernard Kerik, police commissioner under Giuliani, indicted
Shooter of former governor George Wallace is released

The NYPD's involvement in the Muawia case reflects its concerns that U.S. followers of lesser-known radical groups like Sipah-e-Sahaba could pose a threat to the city. The Pakistani government outlawed the group after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in an effort to purge the country of extremism, much of it anti-American.

The group also has been designated a terrorist organization by the State Department.

Investigators from the NYPD's Intelligence Division first became aware of a Sipah-e-Sahaba presence in the city in the summer of 2003, Browne said. That fall, acting on an unfounded tip about a potential plot against the subways, police and the FBI that fall raided a Brooklyn apartment where they discovered membership applications and other documents related to the group.

In 2004, a truck traveling on the FDR caught the attention of an off-duty police officer by pausing to let someone inside "photograph the supporting structures underneath the Brooklyn and Williamsburg bridges," Browne said. It was later learned that the truck was registered to Tariq Javid, whose name was on a Sipah-e-Sahaba membership list found in the Brooklyn apartment.

Under questioning, Javid first denied knowing anything about the group, then admitted he had signed a membership form, according to court papers. However, he denied knowing anything about photographs of the bridges.

Last year, Javid pleaded guilty to making a false statement and was sentenced to one year probation.

Re: # 43

masadi,

.... are you saying that you actually went to bed with a nice christian white girl ... good for you! ..... the us elite are not that bad after all, are they ?

Re: # 44

masada complex, here is the poitn:
(a) place of birth pakistan - in Brit passport
(b) he has been to pakistan (a number of times in the last 10 years) - that in itself is not wrong - but he did state in interviews that "all his family is in the UK".
(c) given the above he has been visiting the US a number of times.

with this profile it dont matter Masada - black brown green yellow or blue you will be frisked body searched and cavities lit up.

Let me also state that he was similarly treated when he went to the GCC on work! In fact the GCC was worse than the States.

I personally do not go anywhere near the GCC - I dislike the guys a lot for the treatment they meet out purely based on colour of skin (which is almost not there in the US or the civilised world).

So if you want to see real discrimination based on colour of skin go arab - and see what happens. There is ajoke which says: Arabs, US, UK, Whites, other arabs, God, yellows (japs and chinese), brownies (muslims)(desis), blacks (muslims), the rest of the wolrd. This is the heirarchy in the UMMAH world. So please stop this "colour of skin" shit - in the US. You talking through the wrong hole friend....

Re: # 44

masada complex, here is the poitn:
(a) place of birth pakistan - in Brit passport
(b) he has been to pakistan (a number of times in the last 10 years) - that in itself is not wrong - but he did state in interviews that "all his family is in the UK".
(c) given the above he has been visiting the US a number of times.

with this profile it dont matter Masada - black brown green yellow or blue you will be frisked body searched and cavities lit up.

Let me also state that he was similarly treated when he went to the GCC on work! In fact the GCC was worse than the States.

I personally do not go anywhere near the GCC - I dislike the guys a lot for the treatment they meet out purely based on colour of skin (which is almost not there in the US or the civilised world).

So if you want to see real discrimination based on colour of skin go arab - and see what happens. There is ajoke which says: Arabs, US, UK, Whites, other arabs, God, yellows (japs and chinese), brownies (muslims)(desis), blacks (muslims), the rest of the wolrd. This is the heirarchy in the UMMAH world. So please stop this "colour of skin" shit - in the US. You talking through the wrong hole friend....

Arjun#30

You could not come up with anything meaningful so TSA is the best what your moronic brain can come up with.

If you want to hate Muslims with a passion at least put some intelligent thought to it otherwise it just makes you look like an imbecile who hates because he cannot channel his own inadequacies positively.

But then I am asking for something that is beyond your intellectual comprehension.
Wait what’s your answer to this : TSA- Wow this answer must have thrown your brain in a delirium for what must have seemed like eons.

arjun writes " Even now, the ICE guys are asked to look at the hands of pakis for rope burns...."

They don't ask to see your hands because they don't know where they have been but have some clues, they wonder what kind of beverage might have leaked from the cup you were holding.....

by the way "I caused a lot of heartache to the white parents and brothers and sisters and friends" was because they were judging me according to the stereotypes of the "inferiors" that they have developed, and dash, the reason why your "patent holding" friend is frisked is 90% due to his looks and the color of his skin, if he were a blue eyed blonde from Tora Bora, they would just let him through no questions asked, that even happens in the same family, you have a more American looking member and he gets going right through the coloreds are frisked and checked time and again....as against the claims of technology that the Americans talk about, their most trustworthy technology to date is still looks and demeanor, and with looks go stereotypes, unless your name happens to be on a certain list then their ears go up like dogs (umm pigs is what they call law enforcement)

hamid writes "..... i hate to point it out, but with your temperamant and world-view, you will stay alone for the rest of your life ..... "

Mian, learn how to read, the "alone" is in the context of not lowering my expectations; when it comes to not lowering my expectations, I was not "alone"- as a matter of fact I caused a lot of heartache to the white parents and brothers and sisters and friends...if I remember correctly, one even told the girl "you'll go to hell because he's a Muslim".

#40 Posted by Dash_Dot on November 9, 2007 4:07:47 am

The largest number of BOLO(be on the lookout) notices issued by DHS are for....drum roll...pakis

remember the notice about looking out for pakis with rope burn marks on their hands. Even now, the ICE guys are asked to look at the hands of pakis for rope burns and other signs of militant training..

Re: # 33

masadi mian,

"that is what I did, stay alone rather than lower my expectation" .........

..... i hate to point it out, but with your temperamant and world-view, you will stay alone for the rest of your life ..... i can't imagine any woman (or man) wanting to share a bed with you .... trust me, it is not a conspiracy of the us elite that you are still a virgin - the fault, dear masadi, is in your attitude ......... or is it? .... if it is a physiological problem you need to visit the nearest cheeni dawa khana or see sain baba of gujranwala who has a cure for mardana kamzori ..........

I have a friend, employed by a large MNC. The guy holds a brit passport, however his place of birth is Pakistan. He visits the US regularly and regularly is detained for further questioning at the airports which can take upto 3 hours at times.

Recently, another opint has been to this
(a) his visits to pakistan (since he had said his family is in the UK)
(b) frequent visits to the US

Unfortunate yes. Unfair - from his POV yes, from other POV maybe not.

he feels strongly about this, but given the nature of his job he has to undergo this tribulation.

But then according to MASADA he will be treated like a peon since he is doing the work of the elite.....OTOH this man has more patents to his name - patents which have improved the QoL and QoS of the people on earth - which is more than can be said for the man who calls others "peons".

anil #37 Reminds me of the time (1974) I went for my student visa to the US embassy. While sitting in the waiting room outside the consular's office, heard the consular (a young woman) talking to a friend over the phone complaining about feeling like a soviet bureaucrat stamping "nyet" on visa applications. uh-oh, i thought. However, she took no time in giving a "da" on my application and wished me good luck in my studies and that was that.

So, I have no reason to whine about a "visa grind".

anil writes "What gives you an authority to abuse others..."

Abuse others? What drug are you on? I am trying to give the desi immigrant a sense of self worth and respect and not go for the sh** that is handed their way, and the people I "abuse" are those that have tried to deride all things local, like Kulharee they are rank racists and happy with their enslavement, you are in their group as well...

Re: # 32

Hamidm sahib:

Similar was in 1970 when I went for the U.S. Visa at American Embassy in New Delhi. No appointment nothing, walked in showed the marine my I-20. He told me to go to an area, where an Indian helped my fill the application. They I waited for a young American. He kept talking before and after the issuing the Visa, as if I was the only one that entire day to see him. He wished me luck, and that was it.

Re: # 33

Massaddi Mian:

"..That is what you idiots obsessed with the white man and all things white do in the US, not I. ..."

How do you know? With attitude and mouth like yours I doubt you knew any desi, or self respecting others.

What gives you an authority to abuse others. Such abusive language is also reflection of your thinking.

hamid writes "......... but that was thirty years ago, before we discovered islam ..... "

rather "......... but that was thirty years ago, before the US elite discovered islam, and reinventing the wheel started on a profitable neo-crusade, using all the past imageray and thuggery for ulterior motive, with all the bells and whistles that go with it to legitimize it .....

Saadmallik... rightly said and nicely said...

anil writes "Is that what you did for all those years you spent in the U.S.? "

That is what you idiots obsessed with the white man and all things white do in the US, not I. Don't detach my post from its context, it ends with the ones having self-respect rejecting the lowered expectations and staying alone- that is what I did, stay alone rather than lower my expectation according to what the "white man" says is my worth- I told him and his ilk to f-off

things sure have changed !

.... when i applied for my student visa the us embassy in islamabad was protected by a barrier and an old man with a shotgun ..... there was a marine on duty in the front lobby whose only job seemed to be to nod and say "howdy" to everyone who walked in ....... there wer no lines, no bullet prrof glass barriers ..... i remmber sitting across from the visa officer, a long-haired hippie, who ofered me a coke and tried to persuade me to go to california ..... "it is the best place in the world, man .... don't you have an i-20 from any place in california?" he asked ..... he stamped my visa reluctantly and wished me good luck ...... i asked him to call a friend who worked in the embassy and he did ...... i met my friend in the lobby and we went for lunch in the cafetaria ...... i was disappointed that you were not allowed to purchase beer before five in the evening ........

......... but that was thirty years ago, before we discovered islam .....

It's one of the best articles I've read on Chowk. Please don't judge it by the comments from our esteemed Chowkies. The comments, counter-comments and most of the commentators are the same:

Surfing aimlessly late at night
I came across a cool website
Where feeble hearts remain unseen
Modest are few and far between
Where every topic always leads
Attack on someone else’s creeds
To hurl insult just take a pick:
Christian, Hindu Muslim or Sikh
You meet chest-thumping fanatics
Old fashioned mullahs, liberal chicks
Imposing on adversary’s mind
The likes and dislikes of their kind!
And all are free to blow their lids
Till wisdom dims, reason skids
Most favorite sight? The view of rear
The world revolves around Kashmir

Check out, my Chowkie mates tonight
With Google search “Juicy Website”
Indulge yourself! There is no shame
Just hide behind a username!

#26 Posted by pakwolf on November 8, 2007 1:36:57 pm


blah blah blah


Now get in the line for the TSA special screening.

Wow! And I almost missed this article. Mr. Riaz,.....great job.

BTW pakwolf what have you done to the driverani of chowk up. You have totally shut her up. man, that is not the right thing....fun has gone from the place....now be a good boy and make freinds with her

Re: # 26

arjun8 you might not not have the same biting syntax as arjun_m, but you seem to be able to set of people on a weird tangent.....

man, one word from you and notice how they make assumptions and abuse you....good on you

Arjun#24

I think you would like the world community to forget the systematic genocide of muslims carried out by Hindu terrorists in Gujarat. The aplogists will say it was a direct reaction to muslims burning the Godra train but if you read the independent analysis of the investigation commission you will find the Saffron brigade instigating and then attacking the muslim peddlars what happened afterwards was pre-planned violence unleashed by Modi's saffron terrorists to rape, pillage and drive muslims out of Gujarat and if Lucky out of India.

The prevalent mood of Hindu fanatics in Gujarat during the course of the riots can be seen through the perverse language used to humiliate and encourage physical violence against Muslims particularly Muslim women.

Here is an example of a pamphlet distributed during the riots in Gujarat:

“Narendra Modi, you have f*cked the mother of Muslims
The Volcano which was inactive for years has erupted
It has burnt the arse of Muslims and made them dance nude
We have united the penises which were tied till now
Without the castor oil in the arse we have made them cry
Wake up Hindus, there are still Muslims alive around you
Learn from Panvad village where there mother was f*cked
She was f*cked standing while she kept shouting
She enjoyed the uncircumcised penis
With a Hindu government the Hindus have the power to annihilate the Muslims
Kick them in the arse to drive them out of not only villages and cities but also the country.”

Gujarat violence was a pre-meditated violence unleashed at a sadistic and grotesque level targeting Muslim women with a ferocity that comes from the training grounds of Hindu right fascist movement. The founders of Hindu right want the Hindu male to reflect masculinity through the domination of Hindu women and violence against Muslim women this led to the prevalence of rape and sexual torture of Muslim women.

Tanika Sarkar a member of concerned citizens tribunal interviewed victims of violence during are research of the events of Gujarat genocide, she found this disturbing aspect of current Hindu psyche, “A dark sexual obsession about allegedly ultra-virile Muslim male bodies and over fertile Muslim female ones, that inspires and sustains the figures of paranoia and revenge. This enactment of fantasy of sexual sadism against women is far darker than revenge it depicts the inherent fear that Hindus hold against Muslims”.

Arjun if you wash your mind of one thousand year of muslim rule and percieved butality and the inherent inferiority complex maybe you will become a decent human being devoid of self love. With your brown skin even as a hindu you are a sand nig*er to the white elite and the credentails of worlds oldest religion does not get you any promotions but YES kissing there as*ses and telling them no love us we are peace loving we only murder muslims in self defence then yeah you will find some who will keep you under wings becasue misery finds company.

#21 Posted by Urstruly on November 8, 2007 12:40:54 pm

well you're already in flint, MI..and you obviously have no plans to visit pureland..so you're fine..you don't need to worry about a visa.

#22 Posted by pakwolf on November 8, 2007 12:46:23 pm


blah blah blah...


the fact is that adult muslim males from pureland and a few other muslim countries need to get their visa application cleared from washington..and that's entirely because of paki love for jihad..

first you people supported islamic terrorism..then when that bit you in the back, you whine..

ask yourself, why were purelanders the first people required to register after 9/11? why are pakis given special treatment by the TSA?

hint: it's the jihad-loving, stupid..

Re: # 14

Massaddi Mian:

"....and the only mate you're going to find will be a social reject like a 600lbs dumbo that you will carry around with you like a prize or trophy...."

Is that what you did for all those years you spent in the U.S.? No wonder.

Arjun #20

Are you really this dumb. I think without you pasting the statement it was quite clear to the readers what it meant in terms of "Islamophobia".

But then being an Indian you consider it your birth right to put Pakistan down after all how would a country with millions of poor and afflicted masses will "SHINE" among the minds of self proclaimed winners of "peace". I think you should get back to learning VHP, RSS, Bajrang Daal ideology of self love and hate minorites theme because that's what a percieved superiority complex and Indian religious fascism is all about.

Feed your millions of poor first a beggar with an IIT or a software city is still a beggar until you reach your promised economic might which reaches to all your masses you have no business telling others about what to do.

In US an average american does not distinguish between a hindu sikh or muslim they see your brown skin and you are considered an outsider or a potenial terrorist holding your Indian identity does not give you any protection infront of racist people so dont feel high and mighty unless you are a white europeon to them you are just an impoverished Indian ridding an elephant, worshipping a cow in the filthy cities or selling soda like "APU" in a seven eleven around the corner.

Even gods have problem getting US visa, what to talk about mere mortals. Sai Baba who has declared himself Hindu god and draws crowds of millions of hindu worshipers, had his US visa application rejected not once but 15 times. So those who get the US visa should shut up and put up (unless you are not taking the job of peons).

I was told after applying for a visa to Germany that hailing from a Muslim country my passport would be sent to Berlin was clearance


For US visas, that rule applies to pureland and a few other select muslim countries.

Excellent article I have been through the US visa interview myself in Lahore pre-9/11 days. It was hectic but not like these days. I vividly remember my day of interview it was a chilly morning in 1991 December arrived and I arrived at the former US consulate near shimla hill. It was a white washed colonial villa from pre-partition days. As a teenager I stood in the line with a friend of mine I was number 12 in a long line of people.

The line eventually grew to over 200 people 8:00a.m was check in time. The security frisked you and let you in next a retired army guy hired by Americans as private security led you inside a nice office area with glass booths separated by walls.

We formed lines in front of a booth in the order we came in and the this both was manned by a Pakistani Christian who by virtue of his religion felt closer to his American employers and felt a disdain for his fellow Muslim Pakistanis who may have discriminated against him for belonging to a minority religion this was his time to be on a power trip and get even, simply put he was rude and obnoxious.

In a public setting one would have never taken it but you took it with a straight face and set down with a new number for the actual interview. The interview came around 10:30am or so. In my head I had practiced a million questions and there possible answers running one scenario after another.
Finally my turn came the person interviewing me was a young 20 something white girl drinking a can of coke she did not make eye contact interview.

She asked for my high school transcript, college I was going to attend, I-20, major and all the time she kept writing something on my passport. Then suddenly a 30 something white male appeared in a suit and tie he gave me a keen look and I was like in my head who are you? He said something to the interviewer which was not decipherable from beyond the bullet proof window.

I was a bit worried at that point and was ready to push my financial documents under the slot when the girl finally made eye contact and said have a seat please and I was pleased at not having to answer the super inflated bank statements.

I got excited that I made it through the first round. In the mean time Tahira Syed the famous singer got rejected. Finally 12 made it out of a total of 200 people. We were asked to come back at 3:00p.m to collect the passports the same day majority were students and we were looked at by the others with an envy that I cannot forget.

I was excited but still apprehensive as others before me had told me that sometimes they put objections and turn you away I went for a typical lahori nashta Halwa Puri and Lassi with some friends who were not as sure as I was that I was heading to US for my studies.

Finally at 3:00p.m I returned this time with my father and I walked to this tin roof office adjacent to the embassy and showed my NIC and picked up the passport and when I opened it low and behold there was the multiple visa stamp and rest is history.

Post 9/11 I have had interesting experiences with tourist visas to Germany, France, UK for instance I was told after applying for a visa to Germany that hailing from a Muslim country my passport would be sent to Berlin was clearance and once they give permission I will get a visa and not mention a load of documents I had to provide. I was amazed since I had already purchased my ticket I was on a deadline after much calling the embassy in NYC I finally got the visa for only four days and when I had paid for a six months visa it didn’t matter the immigration at BONN airport is a story I can write but some other time. Whereas going to UK was a breeze e I got in at 8:30 am and I was out by 11:30 am with a multiple visa. Gone are the days of visas I am a US citizen now but applying for any sort of visa even in while in America is stressful experience. In this respect travelling to Canada is the best experience always a breeze no problems. I am visiting Holland next month will shed some light on it if turns out to be an interesting experience.

Post 9/11 the process what you describe is horrendous but one would have expected it I agree with your article the only ones who will not agree are the ones who are Muslim phobic and not matter what the venue they see it as a reason to bash them because by making us look bad it makes them shine I feel sorry for them.

One should also realize that students bring valuable foreign exchange and it’s a big business so countries denying visas also lose good business and future smart work force.

This is in reply to ranjit#6

I have travelled to Indian punjab as a child to visit extended family there and from what I can remember the ordinary people were very hospitable just like there counterparts in west punjab but the Indian immigration was rude and unfriendly. Plus the humiliating police reports every week for registration so you are either not familiar with your own government system or you are in denial.

The immigration system is same on both sides of the border when our cousins came from east punjab my dad some phone calls and they only had to report to the police station once during there stay. That still does not make it kosher though.

Masadi, those like your Ami are happy with their little shop on Napier road. How is the business going? Have you read any new book lately? Happy Diwali.

IslamIslam writes "Don't ask us. Ask the Islamic Terrorists! "

For those who have visited US ghettos, similar implicit barriers exist for the ghetto dweller enforced by extra police presence and invisible boundaries crossing which will lead to your run in with the law and in many cases a brutal beating. All colored are treated by the white elite in similar predictible fashion, the "terrorists" have nothing to do with it, the farce set in place by the US elite has to be made visible for all to see and its victims have to be those that have the least role to play in the entire farcial episode, the common folk in Pakistan or the poor grandmothers living and struggling in the ghettos...

#14 Posted by masadi on November 8, 2007 8:00:03 am

Even people who've read c. wright mills seem to fall for that trap...

go figure..

Kulharee writes "but he is demonstrating how Pakistanis are willing to put up with this indignity to go to the US...."

The tens of billions spent by the US pushing its culture, the corporate culture of consumption and land of opportunity and free booze and sex, has to produce some results in the minds of those its directed towards, otherwise they would be fools to spend that kind of money pushing it. Unfortunately when the desi reaches America it aint that pretty from near as it looks from afar and the only mate you're going to find will be a social reject like a 600lbs dumbo that you will carry around with you like a prize or trophy. For some people who have more self-respect, [unlike Kulharee], they spend their time alone, and don't sell themselves for a few $$....

Re #11 Arjun, what appears from this write-up, I don’t think that the writer “hates” the US, but he is demonstrating how Pakistanis are willing to put up with this indignity to go to the US. I don’t think that Pakistanis will be willing to put up with such humiliation by “brotherly” Arab countries. I could be wrong.

Times have sure changed since the early 1970's

when I used to just walk into the American Consulate

in Karachi to check out the books and the people there.

Too bad, but this is the reality today.

Ras

#10 Posted by purvamitra on November 8, 2007 3:12:02 am


Who the hell needs to go to Harvard if here in Bangalore you can do what you want!


Pakis don't have that option..

Indians have IITs, pakis have IITs(institutes of islamic terrorism)

The author clearly hates the US but whines about how hard it is to get a visa to come here?

Nicely written account of intentional queues.
But do like i did, don't go there! Who the hell needs to go to Harvard if here in Bangalore you can do what you want!
There is no better future for your children anywhere else except in your own country, amongst your own community. Remember when you make it to these countries, you are always amid foreign corns.

Wow.... it is hilarious, sarcastic, narrative, enlightening - all at the same time. And I thought only people in India were subjected to such treatment.

Brilliantly recorded and written, but I am surprised that they let you take a pen and paper in to take down all these notes and observations, or did you buy/borrow a ball-pen at every step from the guards or what?

[The barriers that alternatingly block the left and right halves of the road are not made of wood or pipes. Each unit is assembled by placing three angle-irons, about four feet long and eight inches wide, welded together in the middle to form a three-dimensional X. Each end of the X is sharpened into a pointed arrow of steel. Four or five of these units comprise a single barrier. If a vehicle, even a large vehicle, were to accidentally run into one of these, it would be instantly shred into pieces. You may have seen such murderous devices on footage of mayhem zones in Iraq or Afghanistan. What they are doing on the streets of Islamabad, the crown jewel of Pakistan’s cities, you cannot fathom. Not only do you wonder what Pakistanis have done to deserve this, but also what these “diplomats” have done to be so fearful.]

What have these diplomats done to deserve this?

Don't ask us. Ask the Islamic Terrorists!

Why are you complaining about the US? Pakistanis treat Indians far worse than that when they apply for a visa and Indians do the same to Pakistanis. It is hyporcitical to criticize americans when we behave in exactly the same manner.

People should not criticize USA govt.
We need to respect that is their choice and it great opportunity to escape from des but they have to consider all as potential Immigrant and once person is in almost impossible to take out due to Human rights . Now one should not coplain as they take only good above average people who have skills lacking in usa people. When you have people coming in like A.Stani people here they never go back but displace native.
Also our old people have always said way to heaven is hard and difficuly but its worth standing in line. If it was not nobody will come there. I think still usa is heaven compared to desh. There are countries like Saudi Arabia more richer than usa but there is no sex content in social millue, all men with beards and women under vail. USA is special place in world all dollars of world, nice hard working peolple and even drive can have his car which is amazing and almost beyond imaginations. I always wonder will be there that way after 50 years ? no body knows.

Riaz,

A true reflection of reality. U punched both desis and US babus in this. Well written.

Whilst in Madras I use to notice long queues @ 5.30 AM at the US consulate. I was told that ppl queue-up from previous nights. As usual there's no shelter along the queue. Ppl spend the whole night in such pathetic conditions even though some of them are big shots and scientists.

For the sophistication fo Americans they can devise a more humane method of taking interviews. They care less.

Luckily for me I had it in Hong Kong b4 9/11. There're only two heavy doors and friendly sec guards but the consular staff are rude to some ppl. The pre-interview queues had some roof over our heads and queues moved quickly.

The guy who interviewed me talked gently and gave me a 10 yr visa (B/R) but the evening collection clerk (Chinese) talked derisively and got a rough treatment from me and the result is that a white guy was called in and he stamped my 10 yr visa 'Cancelled Without Prejudice'.

Anyhow I got a 3 month single entry visa subsequetnly without even waiting in the queue and giving an interview.

I can relate this aticle to what I saw and underwent so far.

A true reflection of reality.

Riotously damning and incisive. And yet you choose to go through with it.

So the days of having dad's messenger boy walk over an envelope and bring it back endorsed are really over?

Excellent article. Informative, topical and illuminating. The message is bang-on target. Bravo.

Did you write such a long essay in your waiting line #3?

Good read, a bit sardonic at times. I couldn’t tell if the sarcasm is directed towards the Americans or those who are willing to put up with this mockery. May be a bit to both.