The Battle for Pakistan

Ref#120, Oh sure , surgery and surgical operations certainly are not even the option rather a cure for many ills/problems in literal sense or in any other context.
Downing of twin towers was characterised as 'crusades'by His highness 'Bush' clan much before any link was established or any investigation was put in progress.'War' was pronounced against"Taliban" and neocreation "Alqaida"
without any definite proof or clear cut evidence. Muslim nations belonging to Middle Eastern part of Asia had long been the sufferer of USA's atrocities and knew what was the real motive behind all this bla bla of 'terrorism/extremisim/ or now obsolete term 'fundamentalism', but for liberal democrates of USA and many other enlightened western minds,the truth could not remained hidden despite of continuous propagunda and sustained attempts from conservative republican's media. And to this date many journalists and celebrities like 'Rosy o donald' openly says that 9/11 was 'inside job'!!!! "You can fool some one at one point in time but you cant fool all, all the time".
Like millions of people in world esp. in west protested for war against Iraq as soon as the truth was unveiled to them no sooner they will be realising that common people of Afghanistan and Pushtoons of Pakistan are the victims and target of Bush's cruel policy.
Dear Eiensteinwallah if you by any remote chance do possess the 0.000000000000000000000001% of Einstein's intelligence you would be in no way asking us to clean the dirt which actually has filled up ur eyes and clouded ur mind.
Dear who is evil and who is saint?Who is right and who is wrong?Who is oppressor and who is oppressed? There are no straight answers but whatever side you take we r all human and share an equal right of living on this only single planet Allah has given to us. If some of our Muslim brothers do want to follow 'Taliban' we have no right to proclaim them as terrorist. We have no right to push them to wall and complain when they try to use the same force. Our planet is already suffering by hostile forces of nature we dont need anymore human hostility please. PEACE, PEACE and PEACE.
I again say hostility towards other human race,prejudices and extreme intolerance against other's ideologies is a the malignant cancer killing us ruthlessly and for malignant carcinoma surgery is never a option, if you know medicne by the way.
Nikhat Riaz

So if USA decides that 'Alqaida and Taliban' are terrorist organizations should we blindly follow them and start war on their behalf by killing our own people?

No, you should just capture terrorists who dare to down two towers in USA. Provided you know how to do a sugical operation which also will not hurt rest of civilian population. Do you know how to do that? If you do not know how to do that then downing of two towers will be characterised as war. And then they will come with their armies and attack Pakistan. Which one do you prefer? Them attacking you or you cleansing evil within you? I think so USA is offering Pakistan here a fair option. You cleans your house of dirt in your house. They will be happy if you do the job right. Nobody is asking for a civil war in Pakistan. But if the task at hand can be done only by civil war then civil war it will be. If it can be done by surgery then it will be surgery. Post-911 scenario is this: USA and India want Paksitan to re-bottle the genie it let out. There is no second and third option. Options are only in how you do it effectively. Clamp down on Madrasa works then do it. Bombing works then do it. Internal intelligence works then do it. Civil war works then do it. Alternative to all these is a consortium of foreign powers doing these on your behalf.

#118 Look: "She was gang raped, and then the secret service agents smashed her head with bricks. "

Is this a threat to anyone questioning Musharraf's rule?

Nikhat,

I don't think you read all of my post, nor do I think you would answer my questions here. But it is worth a try.

Has the jihad in Pakistan taken ethnic colors or not?

Is the westernized lifestyle of IK in conflict with his political views or not?

Has a Vietnamese ever exploded himself among the families of American soldiers or functionaries?

What kind of struggle did Gandhi advocate and was it successful?

Are the sectarian and honor killings in Pakistan and Iraq Western propaganda or are they really happening?

And one point about Iran of Amnjd. About that, you have to talk to the family of Canadian journalist Zahra Kazimi. She was captured photographing the central prison in Tehran. She was 55. She was gang raped, and then the secret service agents smashed her head with bricks. As far as role models are concerned, I think you can do better. Just look inside your self.

Re: # 110
dear Look,
you have a right of your opinion this is what chowk is all about. But before labelling IK confused just LOOK inside a dictionary to give me the clear definition of 'extremism/terrorism' or review the history. Because these terms are only relative, a label given to us by the western media. In fact you yourself are not clear about the picture and buying whatever is thrown by western propagunda. Do you also call people of Palestine 'terrorists' like according to jews they are. what would you call 'Tamil Tigers', a terrorist organization?And what about people of occupied/Un-occupied Kashmir? I mean whichever side you take makes the story altogether different from you and intelligent concientious person try to LOOK from both angles befor deciding. Imran Khan is more than clear about this notion of hearing story of each side so the justice will be served.
If you go back little back in history people of Vietnaam were terroists according to USA like Iraqi people these days who are fighting against the invasion. And what about our own history? Who was the terrorist in struggle of Bangladesh, 'Muktee Bhanee or west Pakistan government? Would you call freedom fighters of 'Quit India movement' against British imperialism 'terrorists'? And if you follow the trail of oppression you will find all our holy names committing the same crime; like Hazrat Imam Hussain's fight was against tyrant Muslim ruler 'Ameer Mwaviah'. So if USA decides that 'Alqaida and Taliban' are terrorist organizations should we blindly follow them and start war on their behalf by killing our own people?
Dear Pakistanis you may have your likes and dislikes regarding Pakistani politics but at this time if we seriouly donot make an effort to stand up for our selves like Iran did and work with one objective in mind to fight for supermacy of justice and real democracy in Pakistan we will soon become history.
You can differ Imran Khan and oppose him as much you want as this is the first lesson of democracy and for which Imran Khan is fighting with a clear vision and pure heart.
Nikhat Riaz

Re: # 115

wow ... i like that quote.

following is one of my favorite quotes.......should be read by everyone on this site - specially those who want imran khan to quit.......

"....It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat. "


Theodore Roosevelt "Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910

...pragmatists can, at best, keep a system going......however, it is only idealists who change the world........imran khan is an idealist with a great deal of conviction........the good thing is that he knows that he is an idealist, and he understands that more than likely his idealism will fail in pakistan........however, if it doesn't fail, it will change the landscape........

well-established western democracies require pragmatists......pakistan needs idealists.......whether they succeed or fail is not important.......as long as they become role models, even if they are fail, some idealists in the next generation will take over from them.......

......so even if people like imran khan end up quitting, then what will the next generation think?........they will simply give up, pack up and migrate to michigan.........

Re: # 107

Well atleast we agree on one thing ie IK is a political failure.

Just one correction: IK was beaten up by his political allies (IJT/JI), not the government.

As for the personal allegation, well dear malik sahib, it seems u have lost the grounds for civil argument thus the personal attacks. Rab rakha.

#111 laddu: I am merely wasting time on chowk, not fighting battles. Mullahs are irrelevant in the real struggle - which is the just struggle for freedom from their own military by Pakistanis.

Re: # 103

tahmed saheb,

It is a hopeless battle for people like you!! The mullahs are steadily on the way to power.

Hi everyone,

This being my first posting on Chowk, I greet all.

I just couldn't help myself. Reading Imran's article, I had to respond.

The inherent confusion in him is pulpating. He just seems unable to separate himself from his ethnic background. Not that all in his ethnic group are alike, far from it.

But somehow, anyone who is fighting terror and extremists becomes the enemy. Reason and judgement are put on the shelf.

He must be a really confused fellow. He cannot separate himself from where his needs lead him to, nor can he forget the tribe. Sad.

This logig of illogic that we should not do anything against anybody we, rightfully or wrongfully, consider our own, no matter what horrific crimes they commit, and at the same time, we should not side with anyone who is a foreigner, no matter how right they are, is a classic.

Mr. Khan, please face the truth, and don't fear it. Extremists are a danger to the entire human race. That they are located in particular locations is not the fault of the world. Therefore, fighting them does not mean that people don't like a certain ethnic group. Please face the truth.

sou bat ki ek bat...

Pakistan ki Phatti...

Democracy karo to bhi maro... nahin karo to bhi maro...

isse achchha to US should nuclear bomb now. Now better than later. Pakistan ki Phatti... Big time.

The critical situation in Pakistan can't be correctly understood if one overlooks axis of evil that is ripping apart the soul of Pakistani nation: Al Qaeda-Taliban! To this, however, a reminder of history must be added: the invasion of the Roman and Assyrian Empires by barbarian tribes. In the latter case, the state came as a result of its overstretch and indulgence in foreign wars -- thus leaving important flanks open -- came tumbling down by the ambush of the evil tribes.

A similar distraction from the core issue of the state security is currently seen in Pakistan due to the power-hunger of Gen. Musharraf resulting in the overstretch of the military machine. The battle of ideologies has apparently and understandably been won by the nihilistic armies of AlQaeda-Taliban which are no different than the Gog and Magog with their deep-seated hatred of modernity which makes them unfit for a coexistence with the by far forward-looking Pakistani nation and therefore this barbarian invasion must be eliminated before it eliminates the civilization!

The religious parties in Pakistan have been quite naively condoning the spread of ´Sharia` by the Gog and Magog not knowing that what is being spread by these monsters is not any religious law but barbarianism. They must’ve the foresight to see that danger that these ´Khawarajeens` of our time pose to civilization and consequently must declare total jihad against them but they prefer to do the folly of calling these monsters their brother in faith. What faith? The love of God and the sense of responsibility towards God or the destruction of every man-made thing on the planet because of its incompatibility with their stone-age worldview.

One can't and shouldn’t overlook here the connection between the Talibans and the Pashtun man’s psychology which remains backward looking and fearing any change in the tribal culture and has an irrestible appeal in the Islamic attritions of 7th century. But the majority of Pakistan remains alien to this barbarian culture and therefore the total war against the armies of evil must be unleashed. The battle is not to be won by the paramilitary forces -- as has been correctly suggested by an author here – but by the professionally trained military. The fact that these monsters have no respect for life gives the Pakistani state the right to even use bio-chemical weapons against these barbarians – to fulfil their desire of ´Shahada` and to save the costly lives of Pakistani soldiers.

rf786 "founding principles of Mr Khan's justice movement includes forming political partnerships that suite HIS on=bjective."

and what is his objective? if his objective was to gain wealth, he already had it. if it were to gain fame, he already had it. and if his objective was to get onto the ladder to the top, he could have easily accepted a wazarat by joining hands with any of the corrupt looters who rule pakistan. or if he were like you, he could have just sat in London and interacted on chowk or written articles, instead of getting beaten up.

and so I agree with you that Imran is indeed a failure in politics. to succeed in politics in pakistan, you have to be a zameer firosh, a looter, a thug, and an illiterate.

Re: # 105

malik99

founding principles of Mr Khan's justice movement includes forming political partnerships that suite HIS on=bjective. First, bezamir and najaiz sharif were corrupt, then they became his political allies. Mush was the savior then he became his enemy. Yesterday it was JI and Qazi Hussein, now we all know what happened next. So lets not talk about principles and insult the common folk.

As for the Cancer hospital, hats off to the Khan, there is no argument. At the same time, what does my father have to do wiith this discussion u moron. If u wish to enter that dark abyss of familial abuse, then be prepared for the same treatement.

Finally, u r entitled to your opinions as much as anyone else on this forum. It is my humble view that Imran Khan the politician is a failure, momentum player who has no vision or political identity except for those he is ever so willing to condemn and then jump into bed.