The Battle for Pakistan

hamidm: No i dont mean SA. SA merely provides the capital. I mean the dictatorships in Pakistan under whose watch mullahs become lions, and when they are not there mullahs are bakris.

Bulleya writes ".......i think, this, in a nutshell, is the social viewpoint (or what it has been reduced to) in pakistan.......i.e. its the rule of power......if you can beat up someone, you gain respect.......if you get beat up, you are considered a loser........

no rule of law...... "


Did you expect anything different with the US running affairs in the world? Violence is as American as Apple Pie as they say, and with it goes the status of being the power state lording it over the "losers"; ruling through cruise missile "diplomacy" and wars without end and total militarization of the world, and you thought the world would give up the "might is right" principle.

What are the peons (in the Pak Army) going to do but follow their master in maintaining their mini fiefdom given to them via the MAJ?

anil #: " would say that people standing / sitting around and watching should be embarrassed. The secretary who got beaten should have felt humiliated......There is nothing in it for the secretary to be embarrassed."

yes, i agree........this is my whole point......the person doing the beating should have been criticised and have been forced to feel embarrased........however, the people seemed to think otherwise......

kind of like a person who has been raped being forced to feel embarassed.......instead of the rapist.......

People are listening up to Khan now. But here, the people rarely count and you have to be dishonest to succeed - he is better off with his social work to help Pakistan, because it brings in the change and we've seen it.

Re: # 96
its sad to hear such comments. making fun of islamic values immediatly undermines your iman.
The beard and maswak are both emblems of the Prophet (pbuh)and making fun of that isnt humour its blasphmy!
its people like you whose thinking enrages the muslims and makes them take up arms.. if you were infront of me and i had a ''danda'' i would knock you hard and fast!

why is it that some of us out there bring their hatred for islam in every debate. this article was all about politics and imran khan and mush. stick to the point please..
anyways, now that you have let me say this: if a mullah means the following things and if the mullah-factories instill these values in people then every muslim should be a mullah
1. pray in congregation 5 times a day
2. know how to read the Quran with proper tajweed
3. know basic arabic so as to understand the Quran
4. have 101 knowledge on Hadith
5. have a beard in light of sunnah etc

plus en plus, the pakis love using the word mullah and have created an alien space being out of it. islam does not believe in an ordained clergy, every muslim should have the knowledge of religion, be able to lead the prayers etc.. if you all became better muslims we wont be having these fitnas.

LOOP: Those 5 "values" are the opposite of the FUNDAMENTAL MESSAGE OF THE QURAN - the fundamental message being, that individual responsibility befor God to distinguish between right and wrong, with the individual being held responsible by GOd on this account before God on the Judgement Day.

You are preaching the pagan "mullah religion" which says that if you do some magical things (treat Arabic as a divine language, which is the opposite of what the Quran teaches), follow a particular fashion (i.e. keep a beard), and hide the message of the Quran under hadith (which is the tool of the mullah devils to lead muslims astray from the fundamental message).

Repent your evil ways while you still have a chance.

Mr. Khan has made some very valid points in this article that no one will disagree. But then again, has made some erroneous assumptions based on his ethnic background or political agenda.


Mr. Khan says:

"For a start there will be a quantum leap in terrorism. His policies have alienated the Pushtuns in general and the tribal Pushtuns in particular. There are around a million armed men in the tribal areas. Does it make any logical sense that to capture a couple of thousand Al-Qaeeda we invoke the hostility of around a million armed men – all natural guerilla fighters? And that is why history tells us the British lost more soldiers in the tribal areas than the whole of the sub-continent during their Raj."

Mr. Khan, why are these so-called warriors receiving money from their arab (foreign) guests? Why is it that a crime committed under traditional honor or Pukhtoon heritage not considered a crime? Dear sir, your thoughts on this subject are tinted with bias and show your political immaturity. Talibans were not created yesterday, nor are they limited in their resources. Either we choose to fight them or submit to their obscurantist ideology under which any ADULTERER is wajib ul qataal ie Mr. Imran Khan will be the first to be hanged.

Then Mr. Khan very conviniently passes the buck:

"Moreover fundamentalism is on the rise in most of Northern Pakistan because of Musharraf's "enlightened moderate" media policies. There is great reaction amongst the masses who perceive this as a license to be vulgar. The Lal Masjid "warriors" belonged to this category. While in Swat & Dir, there has been a rising discontentment due to the poor governance system ever since the two regions became a part of Pakistan in 1974. Thanks to Musharraff being perceived as an American Stooge imposing an anti-Islamic agenda on the country, all these movements are morphing into one."

Yes, Mr. Line of fire is full of sh*t, but then you were the elected representative of that area, how many times have you protested against this extremism? On the contrary, Mr. Khan has allied himself with these extremist. Munafiqat/hypocrisy.

In summary, Mr. Khan makes the right kind of noises that are populists but not realists. He is what we call in the investment field a "momentum player", these guys are short-term players with no apatite for structural shifts or long term positions.

rf786 "He is what we call in the investment field a "momentum player""

lets see makes imran a "populist" and a "momentum player":

firstly, one of the founding principle of Mr. Khan's justice movement is the establishment of an independent and affordable justice system. while rf786 may be able to buy justice using his dad's connections, majority of pakistanis cant even hope to get any justice.

secondly, one of the defining accomplishment of Imran is his gifting of a world class cancer hospital to poor and wretched pakistanis. while rf786's dad may be able to seek cancer treatment in UK and US, majority of pakistanis cant even afford to buy a plane ticket to US, much less money for the treatment.

So if these things make imran a "populist", then i think he is still much better than all "realists" who have learned the "real" art of politiking in Pakistan by using any means necessary to gain wealth and power. Imran may never become a PM or a president, because he is too principled, but he sure has taught average pakistanis that sitting idle whie the "realists" loot the country to extinction is not an option.

Re: # 105

malik99

founding principles of Mr Khan's justice movement includes forming political partnerships that suite HIS on=bjective. First, bezamir and najaiz sharif were corrupt, then they became his political allies. Mush was the savior then he became his enemy. Yesterday it was JI and Qazi Hussein, now we all know what happened next. So lets not talk about principles and insult the common folk.

As for the Cancer hospital, hats off to the Khan, there is no argument. At the same time, what does my father have to do wiith this discussion u moron. If u wish to enter that dark abyss of familial abuse, then be prepared for the same treatement.

Finally, u r entitled to your opinions as much as anyone else on this forum. It is my humble view that Imran Khan the politician is a failure, momentum player who has no vision or political identity except for those he is ever so willing to condemn and then jump into bed.

rf786 "founding principles of Mr Khan's justice movement includes forming political partnerships that suite HIS on=bjective."

and what is his objective? if his objective was to gain wealth, he already had it. if it were to gain fame, he already had it. and if his objective was to get onto the ladder to the top, he could have easily accepted a wazarat by joining hands with any of the corrupt looters who rule pakistan. or if he were like you, he could have just sat in London and interacted on chowk or written articles, instead of getting beaten up.

and so I agree with you that Imran is indeed a failure in politics. to succeed in politics in pakistan, you have to be a zameer firosh, a looter, a thug, and an illiterate.

The critical situation in Pakistan can't be correctly understood if one overlooks axis of evil that is ripping apart the soul of Pakistani nation: Al Qaeda-Taliban! To this, however, a reminder of history must be added: the invasion of the Roman and Assyrian Empires by barbarian tribes. In the latter case, the state came as a result of its overstretch and indulgence in foreign wars -- thus leaving important flanks open -- came tumbling down by the ambush of the evil tribes.

A similar distraction from the core issue of the state security is currently seen in Pakistan due to the power-hunger of Gen. Musharraf resulting in the overstretch of the military machine. The battle of ideologies has apparently and understandably been won by the nihilistic armies of AlQaeda-Taliban which are no different than the Gog and Magog with their deep-seated hatred of modernity which makes them unfit for a coexistence with the by far forward-looking Pakistani nation and therefore this barbarian invasion must be eliminated before it eliminates the civilization!

The religious parties in Pakistan have been quite naively condoning the spread of ´Sharia` by the Gog and Magog not knowing that what is being spread by these monsters is not any religious law but barbarianism. They must’ve the foresight to see that danger that these ´Khawarajeens` of our time pose to civilization and consequently must declare total jihad against them but they prefer to do the folly of calling these monsters their brother in faith. What faith? The love of God and the sense of responsibility towards God or the destruction of every man-made thing on the planet because of its incompatibility with their stone-age worldview.

One can't and shouldn’t overlook here the connection between the Talibans and the Pashtun man’s psychology which remains backward looking and fearing any change in the tribal culture and has an irrestible appeal in the Islamic attritions of 7th century. But the majority of Pakistan remains alien to this barbarian culture and therefore the total war against the armies of evil must be unleashed. The battle is not to be won by the paramilitary forces -- as has been correctly suggested by an author here – but by the professionally trained military. The fact that these monsters have no respect for life gives the Pakistani state the right to even use bio-chemical weapons against these barbarians – to fulfil their desire of ´Shahada` and to save the costly lives of Pakistani soldiers.

sou bat ki ek bat...

Pakistan ki Phatti...

Democracy karo to bhi maro... nahin karo to bhi maro...

isse achchha to US should nuclear bomb now. Now better than later. Pakistan ki Phatti... Big time.

Hi everyone,

This being my first posting on Chowk, I greet all.

I just couldn't help myself. Reading Imran's article, I had to respond.

The inherent confusion in him is pulpating. He just seems unable to separate himself from his ethnic background. Not that all in his ethnic group are alike, far from it.

But somehow, anyone who is fighting terror and extremists becomes the enemy. Reason and judgement are put on the shelf.

He must be a really confused fellow. He cannot separate himself from where his needs lead him to, nor can he forget the tribe. Sad.

This logig of illogic that we should not do anything against anybody we, rightfully or wrongfully, consider our own, no matter what horrific crimes they commit, and at the same time, we should not side with anyone who is a foreigner, no matter how right they are, is a classic.

Mr. Khan, please face the truth, and don't fear it. Extremists are a danger to the entire human race. That they are located in particular locations is not the fault of the world. Therefore, fighting them does not mean that people don't like a certain ethnic group. Please face the truth.

Re: # 103

tahmed saheb,

It is a hopeless battle for people like you!! The mullahs are steadily on the way to power.

#111 laddu: I am merely wasting time on chowk, not fighting battles. Mullahs are irrelevant in the real struggle - which is the just struggle for freedom from their own military by Pakistanis.