Search for Origins of Mahayana Buddhism

mahfari bhai

I will make just one comment on this because I don't believe Hindus and Muslims can communicate on many fundamental matters (history being one of them) unless they first create a symmetrical language. Unfortunately, thanks to Hindu liberals that seems to be an impossibility for now. And, to be accurate, one must include Hindu communists among Muslims, despite Muslim's justifiable contempt for communists - communism being a childish form of Islam. Communism is a great folly but without Allah it gets downright ridiculous and hopeless.

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Here is how it goes, and I had tried to explain it once to aasif bhai as well, unsuccessfully I am sure.

The way things worked in India, there were always fierce debates and controversies in India on matters of religion, spirituality etc. There were many common ideas popular among the masses, but on top of those ideas were built different and varying traditions and philosophies by innumerable different teachers (not prophets - there is a HUGE difference between the two concepts that cannot be in any way overlooked).

ALL these teachers presented their own particular points of view, and constantly and quite openly criticized some or all of others.

Criticism of RELIGIOUS PHILOSOPHIES by those who disagreed with them was a FUNDAMENTAL religious trait and tradition in Pre-Nehru India.

Just like all others, Buddhists criticised Brahmins and Brahmins criticized Buddhists. Where Buddhists grew in numbers, brahmins lost some of their power (although not always, because none of the Indian traditions, not Buddhism even, were totally exclusivist, and an Indian could very easily pay respects to the Buddha AND to the Brahmins (assuming the latter were not going around raping young women. Examples abound of many kings, including the great Kanishka, following that very Indian tradition).

So it is quite possible that a king like shashank (and I have no idea who he was, for he was no great name like the Kanishka) went and demolished some stupas and persecuted Buddhists IF there was poliitical rivalry. This much Shashank would surely have done even if many of his own people, or even his family, held the Buddha or the Buddhists in great regard.

So if you take a situation wherein large numbers of lay people and kings and queens and nobles in India respected buddhists and revered the Buddha as their own, and some of them destroyed Buddhist symbols and suppressed Buddhist leaders (particularly if you could see a political conflict behind such acts), then you cannot conclude that non-Buddhist Indians ("Hindus" to Muslims and communists) went around destroying Buddhism and slaughtering Buddhists.

That would be as stupid as arguing that M. Ghaznavi had any religious inspiration for his religious generosities toward Indians and their religious places had he been a worshipper of the Shiva himself.

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It is true that hostility of many brahmins was perhaps one of the major causes of decline in Buddhism. They actively promoted ideologies that went against the grain of Buddhism.

As a brahmin (born, at least) who considers the Buddha as the ultimate in goodness, and as one of the best and brightest humans ever born anywhere, I can tell you, I do not, quite humbly, think Buddhism is a complete religion. It did not (and does not) know how to deal with aggressive active evil. In eschewing war and violence and promoting ONLY goodness it made a 'mistake' that a more natural religion like Islam would NEVER EVER make (In fact no prophet-oriented religion can ever be remotely like Buddhism).

As such Buddhism weakened itself considerably. Both politically and philosophically. And evolution is a cruel beast. It eats the softest first. That is a profound tragedy for those who insist of associating goodness with softness.

Re: # 194 Dear Kamath I hope that you will read it again and let me know if the rrecird has been set straight or not! As to about others questions , let us wait and see!

Thx for the comments.

Re: # 198notes did,nt come again sorry ! I paste them again.
1.It has issue of nomenclature as some assert that it is Hinayana and some name it as Nihayana
2.See the oxford companion to Indian Art
3. I have seen the various phases of these stories depicted in sculpture at various levels and in different phases in Museums of Peshawar, Taxila and Lahore. This is an amazing experience and it also sheds light on the status of women in these areas and in Buddhist traditional philosophy.
4. Murals of dun Huang are the reality of this fact.
5.Cultural flow Between China and Outside World Throughout History By Shen Fuwei foreign Language Press Beijing
6. Many narrative accounts of Buddhism’s decline and eventual disappearance from the land of its faith have been focused on Buddhism’s relations with Hinduism or Brahmanism. Nearly 20 years ago the historian S. R. Goyal wrote that "according to
many scholars hostility of the Brahmanas was one of the major causes of the decline of Buddhism in India." The Saivite king, Shashanka, invariably appears in such histories as a ferocious oppressor of the Buddhists, though the single original source for all subsequent narratives about Shashanka’s ruinous conduct towards Buddhists remains Hsuan Tsang. Shashanka is reported to have destroyed the Bodhi tree and ordered the destruction of Buddhist images. Hindu nationalists appear to think that many Muslim monuments were once Hindu temples, but partisans of Buddhism are inclined to the view that Hindu temples were often built on the site of Buddhist shrines.
Buddhism’s Disappearance from India By Vinay Lal
7. Cultural flow Between China and Outside World Throughout History By Shen Fuwei foreign Language Press Beijing

8. This difference is still valid and it is evident from the official policy of Dalai Lama and Chinese Government on the issue.

again stressed it deals about origins of Mahayana School of Buddhism

Re: # 194Gandhara art, sculpture development, evolution of Mahayana School of Buddhism

The land of Pakistan is blessed with the vast treasure troves of the world and one of the most important treasures is the glorious civilization of Buddhism flourishing in the North Western areas of Pakistan. The mountains of these areas are witness to one of the highly creative ideology springing from Buddha’s teachings taking refuge in the mountains from Karakorum in Chilas to Pir Panjal Mountains near Taxila.
The Buddhism flourished in these regions after the Ashoka embraced Buddhism after the war of Kalinga. There was one school called Nihayana,(it is also called Hinayana) the smaller ferry which believed that the great Buddha will take all the followers to Nirvana . But as it is a norm for many religions of antiquity, the followers of Buddha in Pushklavati and Takshala valley developed the sculpture to adjust with the demands of basic philosophy of Mahayana.

These valleys saw the growth of Buddhism from traditional view of Nirvana to more liberal expression of personal element of involvement in a spiritual way.

These valleys saw the emergence of Mahayana school of Buddhism which is the larger ferry and it said that there was possibility for many persons to get Nirvana and reach up to Buddha hood, this idea introduced the development of sculpture and taking guidance from the Maha Buddha called Sakaymuni in Chinese and Tibetan Buddhist tradition.

This gradually resulted in development of Gandhara Sculpture based upon the Pali literature of Buddhism based upon Tri Jatakas and Tri Patakas (three baskets, and three bags respectively). This literature is the story of Mahavera Buddha in different phases of life and in this the natural gift of depicting the figures and paintings of the situation developed and this opened the gate for idols and sculptures of a marvelous beauty, proportion and originality in its execution and imagination.

The bronze sculpture of Gandhara is the most original and creative phenomenon which was rage in the first centuries of first millennium. This is the unique aspect of the Buddhist religious pantheon in Northern Pakistan as in Southern India the oldest Buddhist temples of 5th century AD have no sculpture rather they have the lotus flower and its depiction as the Nirvana aspect of Mahavera.

The sculpture of Gandhara has variety of the ideas based upon Jatakas and Patakas and it describes the whole story of Gautama’s life from his palace to the place of his Nirvana under a peepal tree. The tree of peepal and lotus have sacred valuation in the Buddhist tradition as they are considered to be linked with the life of Gautama in inseparable manner at the most crucial stages of his spiritual evolution and transformation. This aspect can be studied in detail in the sculpture tablets and other artifacts of Gandhara in Peshawar Museum, Taxila Museum, Lahore Museum, and other places where the Gandhara art is preserved.

The Gandhara art is basically the expression of Mahayana school of thought which later on traveled from Swat, Kashmir through the famous Silk Road to Xin Jiang in China.

The sculpture which traveled from Pakistan to China has drastically changed especially in its material and shape. The most amazing difference is between physique, in China the Buddha has healthy, Chinese and localized features and with more stress on the face and expression whereas in Gandhara art the whole bodily expression and fasting of Buddha is explained in more detail and personalized spiritual expression.
This is at its peak in the Fasting Buddha , in the custody of Lahore Museum. See below figure 5 ,the fasting Buddha which is the representative art of Gandhara . This shows the control of artistic expression and observation of human physical situation in the ultimate state of Nirvana . This is blend and mosaic of physical endurance and bliss of Nirvana in a multidimensional , passionate way. This sculpture captures the strength, depth, variety, uniqueness and individuality of spiritual elation and awakening in pinnacle of Buddhist journey of spirit.

The varieties of Buddha along with Stupas are expressions of richness of Buddhist legacy in Pakistan. The art of Gandhara is innovative, local and as asserted by many western scholar that the technique is inspired by Greek is not borne by facts, as to its originality of idea and usage of bronze as basic material in production of sculpture.

The imagination, development and evolution of Gandhara art is interwoven with the advent of Mahayana school in Buddhism which flourished in early centuries in the Pushklavati and Takshala valleys in early millennium.

The journey of Jatakas and Patakas from Pakistan to China is a cultural assimilation between the areas of Pakistan and China. This was the most important cultural, historical and deep religious exchange in the history of this area.

The translation of Buddhist literature has saved the treasures of Buddhist tradition to posterity, which later on traveled to Japan , Korea, Thailand and other regions of Far East . It also enriched the vocabulary of Chinese and developed a whole new religious terminology. The Silk Road has its trade value but the journey of Jatakas and Patakas to China is the most enduring legacy of the glorious mountains.

The icon of this cultural transmission is Xuan Zhuang, the Buddhist monk who traveled in the last stages of Gandhara Civilization, which had been destroyed by zealot Hindu resurgence under the Guptas (325-497 AD).

But the literature of Buddhism was translated by him in the Tang dynasty and in Tang dynasty of China the Buddhism was adopted by elites of China. It was a tang Princess who took the Buddhist religion to Tibet. In Tibet the Buddhism Mahayana developed its own attributes and Lamas were the practitioners of this Tibetan and Chinese Buddhism. In Tibet it developed its own contours of Lama Buddhism with Shambhala at its forefront. In Chinese mainland it has its own attributes differing with Tibetan Buddhism due to political and cultural differences.
The Mahayana is linked with Gandhara and its evolution is depicted in art, Patakas and Jatakas with help of figurative art in creative way and manner. This association is the basic idea which helps us to appreciate and understand the growth and flourishing of sculpture and related artifacts in Gandhara.
The dominant theme was by the different poses, postures of Buddha. T his is unique in the individualistic respect of Buddha as there is no other person depicted except in subdued manner. (See figure 4, 1)

The theme of meditation is developed in a very relaxed, calm, individualistic way in Gandhara art as shown in figure 7. These sculptures show the spiritual elation and calmness in a refined and passionate manner with deep peace on the face of Buddha. These sculptures show the personal devotional attitude of artisans of Gandhara.

It has issue of nomenclature as some assert that it is Hinayana and some name it as Nihayana
See the oxford companion to Indian Art
I have seen the various phases of these stories depicted in sculpture at various levels and in different phases in Museums of Peshawar, Taxila and Lahore. This is an amazing experience and it also sheds light on the status of women in these areas and in Buddhist traditional philosophy.
Murals of dun Huang are the reality of this fact.
Cultural flow Between China and Outside World Throughout History By Shen Fuwei foreign Language Press Beijing
Many narrative accounts of Buddhism’s decline and eventual disappearance from the land of its faith have been focused on Buddhism’s relations with Hinduism or Brahmanism. Nearly 20 years ago the historian S. R. Goyal wrote that "according to
many scholars hostility of the Brahmanas was one of the major causes of the decline of Buddhism in India." The Saivite king, Shashanka, invariably appears in such histories as a ferocious oppressor of the Buddhists, though the single original source for all subsequent narratives about Shashanka’s ruinous conduct towards Buddhists remains Hsuan Tsang. Shashanka is reported to have destroyed the Bodhi tree and ordered the destruction of Buddhist images. Hindu nationalists appear to think that many Muslim monuments were once Hindu temples, but partisans of Buddhism are inclined to the view that Hindu temples were often built on the site of Buddhist shrines.
Buddhism’s Disappearance from India By Vinay Lal
Cultural flow Between China and Outside World Throughout History By Shen Fuwei foreign Language Press Beijing

This difference is still valid and it is evident from the official policy of Dalai Lama and Chinese Government on the issue.



Bibliography

1. Cultural flow Between China and Outside World Throughout History By Shen Fuwei foreign Language Press Beijing.
2. Different Issues of History Magazine Historical Society of Pakistan Karachi.
3. Pakisatn Ki Tarekh (URDU) By Rashid Akhter Nadvi
4. Pakistan Ki Tarekh (URDU) Volume.1 Yahya Amjad
5. Taxila By Dr. Hasan Dani
6. Oxford Histroy of Indian Art
7. Indian History V.A Smith Oxford University Press
8. The wonder that was India A.L Basham
9. Futuh-al- Baldan (URDU) By Baladhuri
10. Tarekh-e Mewat (URDU) By Habib-ur Rehman
11. History of India as Told by its own Historians Ed. Elliot & Dowson
12. Oxford Companion to Archeology
13. Travels of Xuan Zhuang

It is with notes, small bibliography and some editing, and it is about Origins of Buddhism 's Mahayana school and other issues we will talk later insha allah!

Re: # 194 Read it carefully, its topic was not given by me, but by editors, and I have e-mailed them to change its topic. I am not so naive to consider origins of Buddhism to be lying in present day Pakistan!
It refers to the bases of origins of Mahayana Buddhism in south Asia.

about notes and bibliography you are right. I am referring these in another interact now.

In fact, some of us may recall, a few of us had briefly discussed how Buddhism represented the most developed form of an important and vibrant tradition going back to Bhagwan Kapila (and his pithy sutra), or even the Sankhya school. Regards.

In general, though, you would expect, most non-Indian thought to imagine as if Buddhism appeared on Indian soil out of nowhere. That's natural thinking among the "revelationary" school, wherein some fellow sitting upstairs supposedly sends down knowledge to us ignorants in discrete, separate, and quite rare spurts.

kamath, there were some discussions on unplugged about what Hinduism is, and not sure, what people there finally decided (if anything), but IMHO, there was no separate religion known as Hinduism before Islamic thinking came to India. The Buddha's path was just one of a myriad Indian paths, just like the one preached by Bhagwan Mahavir.

So speaking of 'Hinduism' vesus 'Buddhism' in a non-Islamic/non-semitic sense seems illogical. Would that be wrong?

Dear Mahmood:

Perhaps you should read few more good books on the history of Buddhism and ancient India before you attempt writing a serious article in a paper. It would be nice.

First. origins of Buddhism is not in prsent day Pakistan, but is in Bihar - a province of India-. That is where Buddha preached and travelled all his life. That is where the Buddhism spread all across Indian subcontinent and then onwards to other Asian countries.

Second. It is erroneous to say Buddhist civillization !. Buddhism is a great world religion and has been part of Indian civillization. In asia there are others, like Persian,Chinese which are major ones.

BTW Buddhism did not start as an independent religion but as an off shoot of another ancient Faith that is Hinduism.

It would be very nice - a budding writer -kindly to quote some references next time whenever you attempt to write something serious. Anyway it is good start so far.Wa Salaaam.

Kamath

Re: # 191 The issue of reputation or blashphemy with reference to Muhamamd peace be upon him is the most complicated issue and it is as old as the advent of Muslims.

The violence is not provoked by all of the times by Muslims, if you know that by committing oneself to ant-semitism, you are bound to be be punished? then why certain people want it to happen? Is it also an effort to save the reputation of the victims of Holocaust?

And as far as madness aimed at Holy prophet peace be upon him and other Prophets Peace be upon them is concerned, it is an issue of public order and it has been dealt as this in history.

the example from Muslim spain will be pertinent when christian zealots began to coem in the squares and they began to (GOd Forbid) throw theri stupidities and intentional hatred against Prophet peace be upon him. The issue was treated as solitary issue and the person was repraminded, but the situation grew violent, when a beautiufl woman announced that she will marry the saviours and martyrs who will do such insane act and embrace the ensuing punishment by authorities... which was Muslim at that time! The isue got very very tense and their were riots and despite the restrain of Judiciary , they have to resort to death peanlty when Muslims raised hue and cry. Over 20 incidents like thsi happened and then the auhtorities asked the Church to intervene and stop this non-sense and this useles process was stopped after sending over 20 persons to hteri eternal abode. But it showed that how intense the religious conflit can become, and since then there have been intermittent, some times continuous instances to slander the person of Holy Prophet peace be upon him. In India matter of Ghazi ilam Din Shaheed is case in point.(See various sources of Histroy books in this regard)


it is never prescribed as compulsory to apply death penalty, as it depends upon the seriousnes of the issue and related circumstances and it si the extreme level punishment and it seems sever as to the Modern codification of law and legal punishments. As in past it was treated as Tazir not as Hadd and it is still tazir against Hadd which is compulsory and mentioned in Holy Quran and usually it has explicit punishments like adultery, murder, dacoity, etc. But in this case the bhaviour from both sides is based upon frenzy and extremism, no doubt!

But the question is when a person commits anti-Semitic rhetoric , he is condemned legally and morally and in reality in west( see the case of recent Historian's issue). Then why they raise too much hue nd cry when other societies want ti implement theri rules and regulations?

it isbias and naked bias , nothing else! It becomes more provocative when it is used as a systematic, sustained, intentional element of insult and stuborrness against any faiht or people. It is legalized morality and it is necassary for the balnace of society to keep the law and order. And why it is neccasary to show liberalism by insulting intentionally beliefs and ideas of certain people publically and unwantonly? the mystery of this question has key to understand this issue! any other question?

For us Muslims the word should be PBUU (peace be upon us) whenever and whereever we mention the word Muslim -- we can surely live with that.

If I may jump in the fray about PBUH -- when I was in elementary school it was the time when we were coming out of the age of flowery language of "Alqab" -- a mile long of baroque ornamental adjectives to the addressee before coming to the point of the letter.

We were told to avoid that old Durbari language for letter writing -- and address the person with their names and may be a "Janab" here and there -- the practice did not go completely out of fashion -- even the British loved to hear from every Indian Gunga Din -- "your most obedient servant" at the end of the letter.

It is time to do the same to PBUH. The use of PBUH is a drag for two reasons -- it interrupts the flow of thought -- it is redundant since the prophets are already in very much peace -- they are definitely not in turmoil -- (their Umma may be) -- that their followers have to wish them peace at every mention of their names.

Mohammed never claimed to be anybody different than a human being -- yet some of us Muslims would like to worship him even more than God -- and Buddha whose insight 2500 years ago saw no place for God in Buddhism's highly ethical culture -- instead is worshipped like a god by his followers -- perhaps there is a worship gene in all man/womankind that compels us to bow our heads to even rats, snakes and monkeys

But no religious followers of any religion hit the ceiling or kill for bad mouthing their prophets except us Muslims -- ever-insecure ever-doubting in the fallibility of our prophet -- we have to constantly protect his reputation by violent means -- with "chooiee to mooiee" kind of absurd senseless sensibilities.

Why?

Re: # 183 it is peace be upon him (PBUH)and it is for all hte prophets

Re: # 183 it is peace be upon him (PBUH)and it is for all hte prophets

Re: # 183 it is peace be upon him (PBUH)and it is for all hte prophets

Re: # 183 it is peace be upon him (PBUH)and it is for all hte prophets

Re: # 183 it is peace be upon him (PBUH)and it is for all hte prophets