Search for Origins of Mahayana Buddhism

Well, that's good. But mere bhai, infinite learning is not possible. One may imagine for instance, that if one knows X, one may not know Y. So learning and unlearning have to work together, in tandem. A lot of what we call science too works that way.

When it comes to Islam (and Muslims) and Indian thought (and Indians), there can be no learning without unlearning a great deal first.

IF that kind of stuff interests you, one day we can definitely discuss it. Thanks.
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By the way, if Anil ji chooses to explain things, he is a much much better Hindu and Indian than I am. :)

Re: # 226

mahfari sahib:

"Re: # 225 then why in Bhagwat Geeta there is mention of an all embracing power?"

Dharma the way it is mentioned in Geeta and elsewhere is a concept. In reality it may be viewed to translate into a Customized Jacket that envelops you or you wear.

The jacket defines it concept, but is different for each wearer. Your size, color you prefer, fabric you want etc. etc. But still it is a jacket. Over a period of time, many tailors of Dharma jacket came and tried to create sizes people can fit in, much like you can buy a jacket in say Macy's.

Based on such a concept Dharma, many fundamentalist Hindus believe that even Islam fits into Hindu Dharma, as it is one of the possible customized jacket that can envelop an individual.

For obvious reason, according to their views, Islam has stricter rules, size of a customized jacket.

Dharma has very few rules / laws, unlike Islam, to define what can be called a jacket, and no pants. Conflict with these fundamentalist hindus come, when they want to reject the community oriented laws and rules in Islam.

Dharma is all about indivdual freedom and discipline (truth, soul(formless energy), death and life cycle(form and substance), karma etc.). Each of these fundamental concepts, Krishna has defined to be himself to become (except for Karma). He has used terms like - "I am truth, I am death, I am formless, I can take form etc. etc." Other than these fundamental concepts little else defines the concept of this customizable Dharma jacket.

Many humans indeed wear a real jacket and envelope themselves in a religion - a set of belief system. They cannot wear the concept. Hence you see many Hindu jackets, and many Hindu tailors.

Re: # 230 please elaborate these points. We all are always learning new realities evry moment.

mahfari, yes, that is a basic fault of mine. I just know. And what I don't know, I humbly try to learn. Sorry about that.

Re: # 227 Please also read interact 216

Re: # 227 How easily you are pronouncing upon the bases of disciples of Buddha's; that he did not believe in God. where is evidence in Buddha;s teachings?

mahfari bhai, remember, I mentioned the Indian approach earlier: there were (and continue to be) some very basic common Indian ideas. On top of that, different teachers built different approaches.

The idea that the Ultimate Reality (or Power) is unknown and unknowable is a basic idea. The Geeta belongs to a different tradition than does the Buddha.

The Geeta does try to concern itself with that Ultimate Power or Reality, not the Buddha. The Buddha represented a long line of Indian thinkers who simply ignored that Reality or Realities. These traditions were entirely 'HUMAN.'

What may be more useful to you, the Geeta has more in common with Islam (although that commonality too would be an absurdity, all in itself), than does the Buddha.

Re: # 225 then why in Bhagwat Geeta there is mention of an all embracing power?

tahmedji, that's quite right. That's the name we got by luck and default, since people of the indus, for whatever reasons, did not think it necessary to press a claim. :)

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Dash bhai, no, one doesn't need them. That's the whole thing of the dharma - it is about order, right process, right human ends, not really what lies behind or before human processes, order etc.

But dash bhai, that is a very very non-faith based view. To us Easterners - Indians, chinese etc - that is an obvious - almost self-evident - truth, but faith-based thinkers would (and should) reject that out of hand. They need a creator who sets the process going. Without such a creator (or such creators), they expect nothing but complete chaos (because they would not see any justification for any specific order, or any specific process).

Eklavya: "ancient India" was areas forming Pakistan - the term being derived from the river indus, these areas being settled for thousands of years before mankind moved further east to what is now india. but you can use the name - long before the name hollywood had been copied to become bollywood, the indus valley had been copied to become india. :-)

#221 Posted by Eklavya on December 11, 2007 5:31:16 am
majumdar, yes. The Buddha was concerned about the PROCESS of living, not what gods upstairs or devils below the earth were doing.

A quick question: once you understand the process, do you really need the devils(God) upstairs or Hades downstairs?

Once you understand the process of Rain Creation damendif you will believe in the rain_god (or that God created Rain)

(or maybe I am wrong)

Re: # 221Dear all the humanity is our heritage and do,nt be desperate! wisdom is not any one's personal property! There is saying of our Holy prophet ( peace be upon him) that wisdom is lost property of Muslims , so get it from where ever you can get it. and another saying Go to China for seach of knowledge. how can you restrict the beuty to one tradition only? TRUTH is not heritage of only one person!

His ideas were inspired by certain states of the process, it does not mean that he ignored all other things! If he did,nt bother about devils and gods ... may be fro the sake of discussion... but his followers did and they still do... I think that realy matters. does not it?

majumdar, yes. The Buddha was concerned about the PROCESS of living, not what gods upstairs or devils below the earth were doing.

mahfari bhai, please ignore me. I just don't have the heart to discuss this with you.

If you would care, I would advise you stay with reading the Quran and understanding Islam. There is enough beauty and goodness within that tradition. Leave the rest. Particularly anything to do with ancient India. That's not for you.

Re: # 214 Let us try to separate trash from reality1

Re: # 215 the followers of Buddha have this idea and some even deny its existance even, but as to Buddha;s ideas refer to interact 216.

differentiation of origination of ideas is neccassary to understand evolution of ideas... especially in the case of Leader and their followers to make things clear and of rigth perspective.

Re: # 214 To Question of Monotheism of Buddha refer to interact 216.

As to Nihayana and Hinayana refer to my interact previously submitted.

As to difference of Mahayana and Hinayana/nihayana . the difference was that old school of Buddhism believed in only one Buddha who atatined nirvana and who will ensure the of his followers. As to origins of Mahayana it was aimed at atatining Buddhahood and Nirvana by any one who could follow the teachings of Buddha and it used idols of Buddha to attain thta ideal. If you have differnet undestanding please let us discuss, do not self praise yourself without sharing the information and knowledge(if any) you have !
Let us learn mutually and explore the ideas, come present ideas and then let us share them and KNOWLEDGE AND IDEAS are not heritage of any single race, ethnicity or creed. Many people ,, rather majority do not belive in Brahmanism of thought and ideas!

come in open let us discuss, and do not hide ignorance under the garb of name calling!