Resist, resist, resist: ‘The gift of a crisis’

Re: # 119 GT
"My point is that this huge constituency is still to be brought to Pakistan's political field. But who will do it. Will it be a more Mature Imran Khan?".

There are times when I feel for the great Khan, but his "maturing" could be a very long time coming.

"kaun jItA hae terI zulf ke sar hOnay tak?"

Today he tore up his nomination papers. That was a very impulsive and immature act whereby he has painted himself, and his supporters, in an impossible corner. Personally I agree with the entire oppositon bycotting the elections until Nov'2/07 is restored, but his action today is unfathomable. Why didn't he file the papers as the rest of the opposition nominees did? He could have always withdrawn them later when necessary.

Now I am not one of his primary supporters, but don't you think he let them down with his childish tantrum? Even the Prophet(SAW) let the insult on his personal stature go in the greater interest of his followers.

Our Khan is in need of some good advisors. Pashtunwali alone ain't gonna cut it.

everyone is a harami?

Re: # 126

urstruly,

... what's the matter with you?....... for the longest time i thought you were a mardoodi and a card-carrying member of the jamaat-i-islami ...... now you are disowning them ...... i hope you are not a wild-eyed jihadi and a follower of hazrat osama bin laden (pbuh) ..... let me tell you there is no future in living in caves and getting bombed just so you can get a virgin in heaven ....... there are no guarantees and you might be disappointed ........

....... and please stop calling nawaz sharif, benazir, mullah fazloo, and everyone else a harami even though you might not be far off the mark ....... many years ago i bought engine coolant at a auto parts store in lalkurti, pindi ..... i asked the man to give me the best available and he handed me three sealed cans labelled in japanese saying, " this is what i use in my own car"..... i asked the man if it was 'asli' .... something got to him, maybe it was the july heat, but the man snapped back, "is muluk wich peyo asli nahin milda, tusi puch raey o coolant asli aye!" (in this country you can't even find a real father and you are asking me if the coolant is genuine!)

Re: # 121

Cliftonbridge:

You are quite a revolutionary in your thinking. What is the other side of your thoughts? Love to read those too.

tahmed why do you make excuses for everyone but Mush. How is he not the victim? All he wants to do is love you and instead you support a bunch of wild theives and bandits aiming for his uniform, undies and lord knows what else :)

Muslim men can thank their own 'emancipation" in no small part to Hazrta Khatijah. Why should that role suddenly be no good for muslim women 13 centuries later? No your view point is not based on OUR religion but something more primitive.
In the immortal words of VW "men think women need no greater destiny than to be looking glasses where men can see their own image.... 5 times magnified"

mr. kulharee: right you are that nuns dont wield jamia hafsa style sticks (except in convent schools). but my point was - these women were as much victims as the women they kidnappned or the shopkeepers whose property they destroyed. put yourself in the chappals of those girls' parents (not enough food to go around, let alone money for education, and along comes this saintly man promising them free food and lodging and education) and perhaps you will see where i am coming from on this.

hamidm #123 You think that a man who gave up his job as Chief Justice (twice!!) and risked his life for a principle will jump at the opportunity to be ambassador to Belize (or any other country)?

You need to cross-check your assumptions (which reflect the same overcyncial contempt for Pakistanis that has gotten "I am Lincoln-Napoleon)" Mush in trouble with reality) with reality sometimes. Otherwise, you become just another kind of an ideologue.

Re: # 84 Krashid

"There is no najaez Aulad of east India company. Prowestern elite do not understand your perspective."

So now if you scroll back the posts below you will see that there is not only tacit but also open approval of the massacre of school children among the people of a certain mindset.

Like it or not, like I said, the existential schism in our society not only exists but it is widening everyday. What I refer to as "corrupt ruling eilte" and "East India Company ki naajaiz aulaad" is not a class of people defined by their social or financial status but it is a mindset. I always quote the example of Jalianwala bagh tragedy where hundereds of unarmed people were massacred in a political rally and 95% of those who fired the machine guns on them were none other but the same people who were being massacred. Those soldiers were mindlessly murdering their fellow brethern to please their masters without any remorse or second thought. Same thing was repeated when Khaksaars were massacred in Lahore in 1940. So what is that mindset that turns one against ones own fellow brethern. It is the mindset that was drilled into some of us at genetic level by East India Company. That is the raeson you see no remorse on genocide in East Pakistan or the massacre of school children by many among us. There is no second thought why army of this country is bombing its own citizens using airforce and why political leadrs openly invite enemies to attack our territories and kill our own fellow citizens. I mean what kind of low life one has to be to stoop that low?

You asked me why I call them harami? Look at what NS just did. He lands his plane and first thing he does is legitimizes the military dictatorship by submitting his election petition. See, this class will do anything to preserve and strengthen the status quo of corruption, indignity, and vassalage. They just change faces from time to time. As I said, it is a mindset and not a social class in the commie sense of the word; this social class has members from all walks of life - moulvis, foujis, bureaucrats, feudals, industrialsits, and politicians. Similarly, those who are fighting for the freedom of our country have a differnt mindest- and among them are moulvis, foujis, bureaucrats, feudals, industrialsits, and politicians. Its the mindset that has created an unbridgeable schism in the society. The former group has repressed the country with their corruption too long. They have brought the country at the brink of being a failed state. they have corrupted and destroyed every single institution in this country. A time is finally upon us that their corruption and heartlessness is about to destroy us all. This is the law of nature. The corrupt, weak, and inefficient can never fight the fight of the survival of the fittest. They will be eliminated.

This is in today’s Dawn. This is your Practical Islam not the theoretical kind that the terrorist sympathizers here talk about. This is what Islam teaches on how to treat pregnant women.. poor women are screwed twice.

Militants in Waziristan set foodgrain on fire

“WANA, Nov 25: Local Taliban militants seized and burned thousands of kilogrammes of food destined for pregnant women in a tribal area of Pakistan, officials said on Sunday.

The food, mainly lentils and cooking oil, was taken from a hospital in the district of South Waziristan and had been supplied by the aid charity Save the Children to feed pregnant women suffering from malnutrition.

A Taliban activist said they were destroyed because “foreign NGOs want to harm our future generations.” People in the deeply conservative tribal areas often oppose the presence of Western-funded non-governmental organisations on religious and cultural grounds.

An administration official, Tariq Salim, blamed health ministry officials for “mishandling” the situation, adding “this would not have happened had they consulted us before starting the distribution directly to the women.”—AFP

Re: # 123

hamidm2: geo will be back on air and the civil society aunties will be back at the beauty parlor .......



you mean, with zeemax doing what he is best at doing.....like the following ....you sure do know your zeemaxes from your zeeminis.....



Post by zeemax on Nov 26, 2007 8:04:19 am
I just posted this on your other thread.

Believe me, women are worse than dogs.

That's not what folks of my kind want them to be. Women are mothers, and sisters and wives.

Forgive me if that sounds condescending, but it isn't. Only Islam restores status of women. Otherwise you're just sex objects or decoration pieces or pieces of furniture.

That's the truth.

Ok ZK and cliftonbridge,

I will make a few statements, and you can hold me on those forever:

1) I am an Islamist, Al-hamdu-Lillah, and I stick to that.

2) Women are our mothers and our sisters and our wives, and we will not allow anyone to sell them or to rent them out. They're physically weak so they cannot fight, but we will see no one touches them.

3) Muslim women are our responsibility. If they apostate and go it alone, it is upto them. Perhaps they could survive on their own and better than being just 'Muslims', but then again perhaps they won't.

It's tough just to pay elec bills, what to talk about war.

So whatever the conclusion, leave it to us men. We're used to fighting and dying. You live longer in any case.

Allow us to get killed for you

tahmed,

"who in his right mind would vote for a self-proclaimed criminal ....... "


nonsense!

....... we are talking about pakis here - not normal people ! ......... i am afraid you have been away too long and are completely out of touch with the reality of pakistan and pakistanis .... unfortunately, i haven't been able to break away and am still painfully aware that pakistanis are not 'normal' people - we are a fickle and ignorant bunch of yahoos who are easily swayed by charlatans whether they come from across town (ghq), or dubai, or saudi arabia .......

...... today half the people in pakistan talk fondly about ayub khan, the man who institutionalized military rule ...... and most of us are eager to forgive bhutto for his role in the bangladesh debacle ....... if bb and ns pick up where they left off, who knows, in a few years musharraf might start to look pretty darn good ...

...... so please give up your protest ..... there is a good chance that your droopy eyed cj will get a cushy job in the new administration - he might even end up as the ambassador to belize ........ geo will be back on air and the civil society aunties will be back at the beauty parlor .......


excelsior !

#121 Posted by cliftonbridge:

Clifton,
That post was almost violent :) Your point about politico religios mainstream party is true. However, the 'group' I talk about is, I believe, apolitical by and large. Honest down to earth types in the 'mohollah', respected by most, who arbitrate 'small' local conflicts and dispense realistic and common sensical advice. You know what I mean? These guys may 'vote' but curse all political parties and types, actually the better of the lot prefer to remain ignorant. You get my drift ...

GT there is no dearth of politico religous main stream parties in pakistan. The militant taliban have capitalised on not plain old religous fundos but tribal seperatists and jungle grown random miscreants. Who have a vague sense of islamic principles but an unerring knack for regressive, misogynist, self defeating, violence against other poor beggars like themselves.

These himbo's from planet of the apes can not even provide themselves food and will always be bitch slapped by any other civilization. Since we have some latent beggar worshippers in our society and governance we are unable to provide these freaks with the ass kicking they sorely deserve. Specially since we are sucking on one plump saudi teat and the beggars are hanging off the other (which according to the milk fatwah makes us mehram or something like that).

T Saab (118)..do you know of any case where Nuns kidnapped citizens or took the law into their own hands? Do you live in Lala land? Those biatches were wielding sticks and going on rampage to ask for video shops to be closed, and so on, even before they were sent to hell. Kidnapping the people was only a last act in a long line of bulcrap that people were putting up with. Enough should be enough some time, and it was good they that stupid place is shut for ever to produce more garbage in an already filthy place.

Whether or not (and I think not), the movement for democracy in Pakistan stops tomorrow, it is already a success. Lawyers, journalists and students have come out openly against the dictator. They did so when the man was still powerful. They helped weaken the dictatorship of the army and hopefully the army will not recover ground in the future. New leaders have also emerged from the ranks of the lawyers. Their gain in their respective political parties is a certainty in the comming days. The growth of Imran Khan as a leader will definitely help him access support from a wider political base within the next five years or so. So yes the movement is a success.

There are two channels to get to the masses in our part of the world: students and those people at the local level who bring about compromises outside the formal jurisdiction of the state. Both these channels are jealously gaurded by despotic political/religious parties. Imran Khan scratched the surface of the cocoon which covers students in Pakistan. Hopefully that scratch will help crack the cocoon in the future. But a lot more needs to be done.

As far as the second group of people are concerned, it is my belief that this section is largely dominated by people who are basically religious and take guidance from religion (they should not be confused with fundamentalists). My view is that this section is largely apolitical, anti-violence (and there is a very important reason for this - it being that this group is into resolving disputes) and perhaps pay lip service to the religious parties for the lack of a better alternative. It had been my belief that this group had been tapped by what I termed the LMP (Lal Masjid party). It seems to me now that I was wrong. This is because, the visible part of the LMP is colluding with the Taliban.

There have been some here on chowk who have put up the Taliban as one of the purer faces of Islam. I leave it for those who understand Islam much better than I do to debate whether or not this is true. But my reading of Taliban puts them at par with Marxist fanatics, justifying barbaric norms in the pursuit of romantic non-feasible ideals. Not all is idealistic. They very well know which side of the bread is buttered. They, for example, are willing to burn food and medicine donated for women and children from the West ... unless of course it is channeled through them. We know of a lot of non-Islamists in Africa, Cambodia etc. who do the same.

But that was not my point. My point is that this huge constituency is still to be brought to Pakistan's political field. But who will do it. Will it be a more Mature Imran Khan?

hamidm: i already explained why i consider the students of lal masjid to be victims of the maulvis and their puppet-master musharraf.

you are welcome to keep calling them terrorists - but it is meaningless to call them that. sure the hafisa women broke the law when they kidnapped women for the benefit of lal masjid maulvis - but to call them terrorists is as much a stretch as to call christian nuns terrorists.