Where is Ibn-Sina of the 21st Century?

#14 Posted by masadi on December 13, 2007 6:16:59 am


Where are the Newtons and Albert Einsteins of 12th and 13th century Europe?


masadi..in our universe, time moves forward...and human progress too..i doubt even the US elite can change that..

diesel writes to Kulharee (the dimwitted author of this article):"You are an apologist for the West.Is it not true that USA is the greatest supporter of Wahabi Saudi Arabia ?"

Yes it is true, Saudi Arabia is second only to Israel in fulfilling US agenda in the region and keeping the people of the region underdeveloped and poor, both materially and as a consequence intellectually.

Part of a post by me on another thread which is relevant here :When world decision and consensus goes against the US, they merely "fire it" (through the barrel of a drawn gun)much like Musharraf did with the judges, form their own "coalition of the willing", stacked with corrupt, rat fart countries (like Musharraf's new judges). Global dictatorship by the US elite is what defines our era, the petty dictators merely imitate their higher masters who are their lifeline....

#14 Posted by masadi on December 13, 2007 6:16:59 am



When colonization ripped the soul out of our people and created material circumstances that reproduced the image held of them by bigots and racists among the Western elite, you cannot expect people of the calibre of Muslim scientists of old to emerge when the biography and the mass psyche of the people was totally different.


oh get over it and move the fuck on already.....jews have been persecuted for how many years now? didn't the holocaust(if you believe in it..do you?) rip the souls of the jews? they're doing fine now, aren't they?

places that were formerly colonized by muslims are doing just fine..of course,I'll bet you think that colonization was a good thing..

masadi, where are the demotricus and aryabhattas of 7th and 8th century islamic world?

This person has absolutely no clue about what he writes. Ignoring history as well as the wider social structure that pushes and cajoles people to act in certain ways is completely beyond his comprehension level to understand. As all ignoramuses he places blame based on sloganeering and doctrine, as if Islam was absent from the lives of those living in the 13th and 14th century. He then tries to mask the real cause of the state of Muslims in today's world by giving a casual line about colonization and it being an "escape" explanation. When colonization ripped the soul out of our people and created material circumstances that reproduced the image held of them by bigots and racists among the Western elite, you cannot expect people of the calibre of Muslim scientists of old to emerge when the biography and the mass psyche of the people was totally different. One can easily dismiss your entire dimwitted article by asking : Where are the Newtons and Albert Einsteins of 12th and 13th century Europe? If you can answer that question you'll be able to answer the question you ask about Ibn Sina of the 21st century, fool.

Posters, you don't need to apologize to Feroz Qutubshahi, aka Kulharee, who misses no opportunity to manufacture his dimwitted attacks on Islam, feels very proud of himself and his complete submission to the Western elite, becuase they hand him a few $$, and a reject among the white folks (his 300lbs wife, aka dumbo) chose him as mate, and writes at the level of a sixth grader. Apologizing to him is itself an outrage...

FQ, I think people in this world that try to fit esoteric concepts like "Kowledge" into boxes of religion and geography are wrong. what the heck is islamic knowledge vs. greek knowledge. This assumes that the starting point of that knowledge was that particular geography or religion. Knowledge is a collective of human thought and experience. It is shaped by humans, it is not divine in its origin or mandated applicability.

It is a continuous improvement, tweaking and shaping of ideas and their applicability to the environment around them. I would venture out to say that because people parameterize knowledge according to location or religion, it is stunted and often lost.

There was a book by Dick Teresi a while back called Lost Discoveries, Before pythagorus (sp) devised his famous theorem, oral tradition in then hindu pakistan had architechts using the same triangular ratios to develop altars. But because it was limited to religious practices, it was never exported to become part of a human knowledge tradition until the greeks.

The point is that knowledge creation is a continuum. All the religious and nationalistic chutiyas who seek credit for ideas developed by individuals from their traditions should be lined up and shot.

As a muslim, if you hear another chutiya tell you that arabs invented algebra...duly bitch slap them. they continued to develop a discipline that started thousands of years ago. They didn't invent anything.

You cultivate knowledge, you don't invent it.

#5 yes yes, now spare us all your anti muslim rhetoric, we know that alot came from India and China it was taken and developed by Arbis and now the Goras have developed taht knoweldge further, and now the rest of the world is taking it further... this article isnt talking about where the knowledge came from etc. its asking Muslim ppl to think about their faith and whats written therein...

re: your claims about Muslims destrying the sources of knoweldge can you please give examples and even if they did, why on earth is that mines or any other muslim person alive todays issue? why should we apologise for it, or be made to feel that we should? do i ask all the hindus to apologise for modi and his actions (i havent even started on barbaric hindus from the past)...

keep you insecurities to yourself and add something relevant to the conversation that this article is about, for all other pangas shri arjun upastit haiN!

you will find that in Quran Allah commands the reader to ponder

This is exactly what Qutubshahi sahib is saying... we need to ponder, think more instead of just blindly following mullah char sau bees!!!

Re: # 8 and I remembered SATI also!

Re: # 8 Dear arjun what about burning women alive fro not bringing JAHEZ dowry!

barbarins and pyschopaths are not specific to any culture , this breed is common in all cultures... of modern times!

I will be beating my wife with a big leather whip from the time she comes home from work and until she leave in the morning.


no break for monday night football? barbarians...

Feroz,
Your reading of Islam and Islamic thought is set in the alien environment with very little understanding of the religion. Apologies if that sounds like a personal attack. However let me give reasons for this statement. Indeed it seems evident that you DID NOT go through original sources of Islam and came to think of cultural practices in Muslim communities as what is all about. Islamic is NOT just a set of a couple or rituals and cultural practices. If Quran would not have been a living book, people would have become convinced of authenticity. If you have the facebook account go and speak to those who have just converted/reverted to Islam at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204799040 You will find most of the times people who embraced Islam was frequently NOT after seeing a Muslim role model. Rather it was after READING Quran in its original form and closely studying the concepts as included in original sources. It was the human interference in God's message that led to corruption. Now coming back to the reasons behind backwardness of Muslims in the current era. It is because of the fact followers of Islam have derifted AWAY from original sources and started following cultural practices of their parents and elders as the true depiction of Islam and that is the reason why there are so many different sects in Muslim world. Now I want to ASK you and would not expect you to respond in public but rather answer this question to yourself that whether you have read QURAN from the beginning to the end with its translation. If you will read it, you will find that in Quran Allah commands the reader to ponder and this is what we stopped doing and that led the Muslims across the world to downslide.

It is a wonderful saying that facts are sacred, and opinion is free! For expressing opinion I will wait so let us refresh some facts.

To say that latest and greatest set of Islamic literature is 1000 year old.... ( Quote) is contrary to the facts.
Islam's legal thought flows from four basic concepts, Holy Quran , Sunnah of Holy Prophet Peace be upon him , Ijma ( Consensus)and Ijtehad. Shariah is a term used to explain the practical and legal codes of Law implmented and practiced .

In Islamic culture the legal tradition had tens of legal schools but the most popular being are the Four Major schools of Sunni tradition and one of Jafri tradition of Asna Asheriyas.The all hadith literature has not clear and cut legal value and importance..and it was never used as ultimate tool of legal value. This flows from basic hadith which was said by Holy Prophet peace be upon him to the Governor of Yemen while he proceeded on to take over reigns of Governance. he asked how should i decide the isues? HOly prophet Peace be upon him said consult quran , He said if it is not htere then holy prophet peace be upon him said follow my Sunnah, Companion ( may Allah be pleased with him) said if it is not available in sunnah then? Holy Prophet said then apply your mind! It is the basic and fundamental Hadith which laid down the foundations of legal thought in Islam.

Then soon after departure of Holy Prophet peace be upon him from this world , the Hadith was compiled , legal thought was developed and knowledge of Fiqh was developed by Imam Abu Hanifa( God bless him) , Imam Jafer ( God bless Him), imam Malik( God bless Him) , Imam Hanbal( God bless him)and many others like ibne Hazam( God bless him) from Spain. Its culmination was Asul al Fiqh( Principles of Legal Understanding) of Imam Shafai (God bless him). Later the many scholars emerged who used these basic schools and these have detailed books and different schools on interpretation of law as per to the circumstances and cultural condition of the area where they lived .

The bases of islamic legal law were odified and developed as per the most liberal and urban outlook of those times by Imam Abu Hanifa ( God bless him) ... (for detailed discussion refer to shibli naumani;s boopk Al , Nauman translated in english by Hadi Hussain published by Institute of Islamic Culture Lahore.)


Abu Hanifa developed the ratioanl bases of law and he left a great legal legacy which produced great scholars like imama Muhammad 8th century, Imam Serkhasi 12-13th century( whose kitab-al Mabsut is still the reference for legal decision making in majority of Muslim legal circles for legal issues).

in sub-continent Alhadaya was the basic refernce book and legal code till ompilation of fatawa Alimgiri in late 17th century. on the margins of a book in British library found in royal library of Mughal. edmund Burke .. a legal authority in England at that tiem , that this book has great legal substance... (this is not to satisfy ego by praise of western, just to refer to the point that legal understanding was there and even bitter opponents of Islamic legal thought accepted this , no more purposes)

ottoman empire was established in 15th century and their legal codes were developed as per those circumstances and legal situation at that time. And all were not mere extrapolations.. although tradition has always bearing in muslim legal thought, some time in a positive way and some times in a negative way.

Ibn-e -Khaldun( 1332-1408 AD) one of the most amazing intelelctaul of his times and for times to come ... had 400 years lag time if it si compared to topic of the article!

In India Sultan Bahu ( God bless him) Mujaddad Alif Sani( God bless Him) 16 th century, Shah Wali Allah( God Bless Him) 18 th century and in 19th and 20thg century Allama Iqbal ( God bless Him ) read his Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam and alas he could not complete his book on reconstruction of Legal thought In Islam... mere notes were written bu him.

There have been Muslim scholars and legal thoughts in worst of the times need is to look first at them and then draw conclusions, mere repitition of shallow facts does not serve purpose. Interact is not the place to go in more details. any further queries, I hope this very very brief introduction will clear the cultural and historical perspective on Islamic law where all things are considered to be existing only in past or seenm through prism of recent actions of certain fanatics ! Let the search for TRUTH keep on going!

regards!

Why is this person famous? What was his fundamental contribution? Middle eastern people used to travel India and China (richest and most advanced region of the world till 11th century) and spread the knowledge acquired from these areas towards west. Moslem invaders were largely responsible for killing the source of their knowledge. After the discovery of see route from India, China to Europe, middle east has become irrelevant. And that saga is continueing. Malayasia and Indonesia is doing quite well.

Your ideals are utopian.

Faced with Christian onslaught since 500 years intensified further by USA since 1990 it was but natural that an extremist form of Islam would be the natural result.

You are an apologist for the West.Is it not true that USA is the greatest supporter of Wahabi Saudi Arabia ? What about US support to repressive regimes like Saddam between 1980 and 1990,to reactionary Egypt between 1977 and todate,to repressive Algerian junta between 1990 and till to date and above all to Israel , the main reason for the dominance of hard liners like Al Qaeda and Hamas etc.

Your ideals are utopian.

Faced with Christian onslaught since 500 years intensified further by USA since 1990 it was but natural that an extremist form of Islam would be the natural result.

You are an apologist for the West.Is it not true that USA is the greatest supporter of Wahabi Saudi Arabia ? What about US support to repressive regimes like Saddam between 1980 and 1990,to reactionary Egypt between 1977 and todate,to repressive Algerian junta between 1990 and till to date and above all to Israel , the main reason for the dominance of hard liners like Al Qaeda and Hamas etc.