Where is Ibn-Sina of the 21st Century?

Bhai shankar... u right to an extent..but even in sunnis there r a lot of ppl who believe that if u have pious ppl (whatever that means) plead on ur behalf than the creator is more responsive..i personally find that insulting to the creator and myself...when Allah swt clearly says in Quran ..if u need anything ask me urself..mullah's r like teachers...when u dont know a subject matter u go to someone who knows it...u should respect em as a teacher but in my opinion no one can really plead ur case like u would ..especially since Allah swt doesnt need u to be eloquent or anything..sincerity is all thats needed

#112 Posted by masadi on December 14, 2007 12:50:49 pm

why isn't this the place to discuss women's rights?

Let's take a simple example. The Saudi ban on women driving. Either it's islamic as per the koran or it's not. If it's not islamic and the saudis are still discriminating against women, doesn't it follow that the saudis, the keepers of mecca, are following unislamic practices?

SR writes "These are derived from the dictums of the Quran"...

Nonsense, my advice to aslam applies to you as well, when you don't know anything about Islam and the Quran, please SHUT UP.

You cannot just throw out claims without knowing anything about the issues involved in the particular claims. Since this is not the place to discuss women's rights, I'll let you do the reading of my writings elsewhere http://women.rationalreality.com

And while you are at it, it would be good advice for you not to base your propagandistic understanding of Islam on popular films and rants of Christian evangelicals. You reveal yourself to be a mere bigot when you do that

Re: # 101 masadi [ "...Islam has absolutely nothing to do with lack of women's rights, in fact the Quran is most progressive regarding equality between the sexes..." ]

If what you say (quoted above) is indeed true then, respectfully, may I ask why:

1) Muslim men can, but women cannot marry outside Islam

2) Two Women witnesses equal to One Man

3) Women inherit half as much property as men

These are derived from the dictums of the Quran. Why can believers simply not be apologitic and say, "thus is it written so thus we shall do. If you don't like it, tough. You don't have to follow Islam." That would be a more honest (and therefore honorable) stance to take rather than to deny and twist and turn meaning just to suit the "political correctness" of modern times.

Please enlighten.

...SR

Dash Dot, I always assumed you were an Indian, but today I think you are actually Pakistani? Am I correct now or was I correct earlier? The reason I thought you were Indian was because of your original attitude to Maharani Neembu..when every Pakistani male used to think of her as the greatest thing ever, you kinda had a more Indian type approach. so pray tell??

Re: # 107 to 103:

All these responses confirm my belief Mohammad, the Prophet of Islam is the First and the Last Muslim !

Kamath
15:16 Hrs. Chelsea, Co.Down

Re: # 107 to 103:

All these responses confirm my belief Mohammad, the Prophet of Islam is the First and the Last Muslim !

Kamath
15:16 Hrs. Chelsea, Co.Down

Re: # 106without doubt, stuka, without doubt.

BUt here we are talking about Islam, and the fact that there is "supposed to be" no intermediary between you and the great Goddess in the sky.

Those who have flown the coope are doing better than those who are ham sturng by gods minions.

Happened in the past Buddha, Islam, Christain Europe....and now again the hindus once more. Inbetween the chinese.

That is the issue. Ibn-Sina was an INDEPENDENT THINKER and had an equally independent mind.

Tell how many have that amongst themuslims today?

" This guy is often an ignorant little runt who has memorised a few things from the Prophets life, and maybe also from the Quran etc. For this guy any one with an independent mind is a threat - so he struts his stuff and his minions go about doing their bit on friday post prayer."

These very words could be used to describe the Brahmin in days gone by. If anything, it was the Brahmin's iron clad control on Hindu society that led to its self destruction. Today, in India's urban areas, and also in fact in rural, the Brahmin is nothing more than a provider of services. The lower casts (not the Dalits yet, but the Shudars like Jats etc.) are more empowered...leading to a more vital, uplifting Hinduism. Be it a Disco Jagran or a spiritual quest, the dependency and servility to the Brahman is gone.

Arjun: That is actualy not farfetched. Mohammad's first wife was an independent business woman who married a man much younger...and in the same country, women are not allowed to drive.

I think one thing Muslims are really good at is calling each other unIslamic. "True Islam" seems to be up there with the Unicorn and the Holy Grail in terms of myths. There are only two "true Muslims" ..one is the prophet, the other is the Muslim dude calling others unIslamic.

#101 Posted by masadi on December 14, 2007 6:50:49 am


Islam has absolutely nothing to do with lack of women's rights


If you're saying islam gives women rights while the reality is that women have the fewest rights in muslim countries in general and in islam's birthplace in particular..so the obvious conclusion is that most muslims don't follow islam..

Re: # 101
Masadi

For every enlightened version of islam such as yours and the Turkish ruling party’s there are the taliban and the wahabis of Saudi Arabia.

My understanding of Islam is limited. My understanding of a big difference between sunnis & shias is the former dont have an "intermediary" between self & Allah. In shias there ia an ayatollah who is kinda like an "intermediary"..rough metaphor is like a telephone operator between self & Allah.

Am I wrong?
If I'm right that a shia "mullah" commands more respect. A sunni mullah doesnt have that same privildge.

Could any muslim please educate me?
Thanks

aslam writes "It would be naïve to suggest that islam isn’t holding muslims back, which it certainly is, in so many different ways, to name a few, women’s rights, freedom of speech and lack of democracy"

Islam has absolutely nothing to do with lack of women's rights, in fact the Quran is most progressive regarding equality between the sexes, freedom of speech is allowed even to the extent of insulting Islam where the only advice to the Muslims, in the Quran, who don't like such speech is to not sit in such a gathering, and as far as democracy goes, total power is given to the people within certain edicts of social justice (which are not even one percent of the rules and laws found in modern bureaucratic "democratic" societies) to decide their own fate, the whole purpose, according to the Quran, behind this life being to see how they determine....If you don't know about Islam or the Quran (but base you knowledge on Mullah rants), might I politely suggest :Shut up about it.

kamath writes "Dear writer Feroz Qutabshahi:
I applaud your courage, self examination and quest for truth"

Going along with the official propaganda of the US elite, mainstreamed in order to push their farcial war on terror does not amount to either courage, self examination or quest for truth. It amounts to dimwitted cowardice where you try to kick the person who is already down trying to take advantage of his or her vulnerable position. Kulharee is just such an opportunist who might try to "reinforce" his American citizenship by such articles but regardless of how hard he tries, the white man will never consider him a citizen regardless of the paperwork he has done, the conditions he has met or the passport he carries. Come the right time all that will be worth shit as he is dragged in with the people he is baselessly railing against....

Dear writer Feroz Qutabshahi:
I applaud your courage, self examination and quest for truth. That is what is needed so badly, to bring in elements of change for refornmation in the Islamic world whose dynamism had declined many centuries ago. This is the beginning.

I wish you keep up your writings, for you are on the right side of history.

Kamath