Feminism Under Veil

#133 Posted by nasah on December 17, 2007 4:30:19 pm


These days it is the goat blood that has replaced the virgin blood in the cradle of Western civilization.


yup..which proves my point that you can take a paki to canada but you can't stop him from backsliding on the civilizational timeline..

Mohar Pullsjskdjdjdkdjfjfjdbggwrefdvsbcbcpujaran..how many teaspoons of gao-mootar do u take in ur chai?

Muslims getting literally bumps on the head in their quest for allah :)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/world/africa/18egypt.html?_r=1&hp&am p;am p;oref=slogin

The zebibah, Arabic for raisin, is a dark circle of callused skin, or in some cases a protruding bump, between the hairline and the eyebrows.

Re: # 142

"Fundamentalists make regressive arguments - when Nikhat could have easily said T**** S*** , it is my choice and my religion, and that is no one's business. If her family accepts this position, that is end of the story"

I agree with that. I guess Nikhat wants to feel good too, that she is doing something religious :)

I am also in 100% agreement with you that reasoning with fundamentalists goes nowhere.

ts bhai, many of us are driven by greed primarily (if not greed alone). But for our money (and our jobs) we would be happier in India and Pakistan. it surely isn't the lure of 'freedom' or 'culture' that draws us to the US. (I am not talking of chaltahai here :)).

Do consider this perhaps provocative idea. If there is a casteist person, who fully believes in the caste system - this person, conservative or not, will object to behavior that goes contrary to the rules of caste. Marry outside of the caste, for instance. If he or she doesn't, then something is wrong with his belief in the caste system.

And a person who believes in Islam, truly believes in it, WILL/SHOULD object to going against the basic rules of Islam, whether he is conservative or not - that is, expect women to dress modestly, not marry a man not of the book, etc.

How specific individuals deal with deviations depends, of course, on many individual and societal factors.

Re: # 134

Hurricane:

My point is exactly the same that this decision should be left to the personal choice, might I say as a fashion statement. Why must for every act divine sanction should be cited.

This theory of divine sanction is the most dangerous part, in all religions and everywhere. It has even produced suicide bombers. Fundamentalists make regressive arguments - when Nikhat could have easily said T**** S*** , it is my choice and my religion, and that is no one's business. If her family accepts this position, that is end of the story.

For Hijaber father or other family members to go to the edge, in the absence of divine saction, would put fear in the minds of the over the board Hijabers, rather being used to instil fear in Hijabee mind. There is no difference in this view, in the gang rapists mind as well, and fear is instilled in innocent minds. This is result of what I called as result of regressive thinking.

That is the way it should be, but it is not. Why? My answer is with fundamentalists reasoning is dead.

kaal mian,

a conservative family has every right to disapprove of their son or daughters non-compliant lifestyle.

That's alright. Families fight on trivial matters, so why can't they fight over a non-trivial matter.

Just like a lot of hindu families don't even like a hindu girl to marry a hindu guy from another caste. IT doesn't make it right (the disapproval), but we can understand why they are behaving that way.

If we are indeed intelligent (on chowk), we should look at the matter within it's context. This is a case of clash of values. Just as the sikh father who strangled his daughter for dating a white guy, this is about a girl not following the values the parents were laying down for her. There are a lot of jahil murderous sobs like these guys who don't appreciate people who don't follow their dictates.

The question for these people is: What are you doing in a western culture if you are so damn conservative? Are you so driven by greed that you are willing to live in this land just because you are lured by money?

Re: # 133 nasah
"These days it is the goat blood that has replaced the virgin blood ..."

Bligh me!!! You mean the goat still has its hymen intact?

ohoo sattar bhaii ayyey hein....abb pagaloon kii sahi tarjumani hoskay gii..sattar bhaii koi suboot milla mirza sahab kayy eesa honayy ka yeahh talash jaarii hay?

Author,

'The word “hijab” comes from the Arabic word “hajaba” literally meaning to hide from view or conceal.'

I saw some desis but western Muslim wimmin who donned hijab but wore revealing clothes (frontal bulges partly visible) and wore jeans with meaty body curves making men drool.

This is not a frivolous argument.

Aren't they following the qoran in letter but not in spirt viz, covering their head with hijab but making concessions elsewhere which the 1400 yr old Qoran had not envisaged?

anil ji, hamidm has made the matter far more complex than they really are. ALL that matters in this case, and in every other case, is whether Allah said something or not. The rest is fluff.

-------------

ts, non-Muslims do tend to take a simple view of Islam. As if every non-Hijaban has to be killed, no questions asked. That's obviously untrue.

Now, if a Muslim girl were to start living in with a man before marriage, and insist on marrying a man not of the book, then things do get more grey. Should she be killed? Probably not. But she surely shouldn't expect a loving embrace from her Muslim relatives (if they really are Muslims and follow Islam, that is.)

I mean the Mediterranean Greek.....not the Saudi Arabian...:)

Shore Sahib (#80),

Your view is on firmer grounds than perhaps you realize. Granted, in Quran Allah promises to protect Quran while no such promise is made about ahadith … but there is more to supplement this viewpoint.

It seems that Quran was put into its existing order when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) recited it, led by Gabriel during the last few ramzaans in the Prophet’s life. Several Muslims followed the Prophet (pbuh) in this recitation and memorized the entire Quran, start to finish. This process was conducted once in the second-last ramzaan of the Prophet’s life and twice in the last ramzaan of the Prophet’s life.

Ahadith do not come close to Quran in this regard. It behooves a believer to view ahadith as historical accounts covered with human fingerprints. These ahadith at times contradict each other and at times they contradict Quran. From an Islamic viewpoint, it is sheer lunacy to treat Quran the same as ahadith; but then again, ummah is not known for its sanity in the first place (grin)...

Re: # 132

Anil sahib,

I fear you are grossly exaggerating some points. While I agree with a lot of what you say, a lot of conservative muslims do just fine without the government imposed sanctions.

For example, the honor killings are rare. It is not the norm. If a girl does not wear the hijab, her conservative parents do not kill her. Murder is not the norm, even in muslim societies. :o

From Morocco to Malaysia, you find societies where the modern and the conservative mix freely. So, perhaps you need to adjust the thinking that hijaby families will kill their daughters if she does not wear a hijab.

Re: # 128

Now Aisha Salim has to have her hymen refurbished is nothing to do with Islam -- the handing over blood stained sheet is an old Mediteranian Greek custom that is still practiced in rural Greece -- where the bride comes to the in-laws house after the wedding -- the next day the mother in law has to hang the white bed sheet outdoors with blood stains for all neighbors to see that the bride was a virgin!

These days it is the goat blood that has replaced the virgin blood in the cradle of Western civilization.

Re: # 131

BJ Kumar;

The major difference between Stockholm Syndrome and Hijab situation is that believers in Hijab, both Hijabers and Hijabees, believe they have Allah's sanction.

This conviction drove the Hijaber who murdered his daughter, and probably other Hijabers will try to find ways to ask for leniency for this murder. Yes, even in Canada.

In Stockholm Syndrome there is no such sanction from God, Bhagwan or Allah. You can change the order, to be alphabetically correct, if the offendeds desire.

Hamidm sahib so aptyly highlighted that pardon by Saudis of victim rape is touted strongly as example. I share this point with Hamidm sahib. Just ask a fundamentalist to verify this point.

Pardoning a victim of rape is strange injustice in itself. Such stange injustice may even be sought in the case Hijaber murderer, by other Hijabers.

Reasoning with fundamentalist is a dead reason. Just read what Naqshbandi has written.

Uncle Tom's Cabin is valid when it is sanctioned by the divine ... who is not passing the wine in this situation. As slavery was for slave masters.

The gap between, Nikhat, a Hijabee's arguement and the Hijaber murderer's reasoning is imaginery in their mind. Only decency of the different society they live may make them denouce the murder, as long as the root cause, the Hijab is untouched. In societies where divine sanctions are the law, murder by a Hijaber would be used to instill fear in Hijabees who do not want to conform.

Else, a need to pardon a rape victim should be the ground to impeach the entire justice system.

Can you impeach the book which sanctions Hijab? Try it mate, just to reform it. It is pathetic to see intelligent people here coming to the defence of old anituqated practice of a primitive society. All in the name of divine sanction.

If there are problems that Nikaht points out in the society she lives. Resorting to Hijab and calling others to become Hijabees is not the solution. It will only create more Hijaber murders.