6th December 1992

"Stuka,
If Habib Jilani indeed did that, he was much more than a fool - a reckless, stupid, and insensitive idiot. "

Not really. He was only doing what hew knew best - politics of confrontation. Till date there has been no Muslim leader in India who has organized his community for legitimate socio-economic gain. Even the Choodas do better than the Miyas on that score.

Stuka #28 {"Sirji, that was exactly the offer made by the RSS. ... Habeeb Jilani of the BMAC turned it down. ...The demolishing of the Babri Masjid was also a message to the Muslim hardliners that if push comes to shove, you will lose. If Muslims are to take one step towards Hindu concerns, Hindus will take two. But not ten. It is no longer the time of Aurangzeb. "}

Stuka,
If Habib Jilani indeed did that, he was much more than a fool - a reckless, stupid, and insensitive idiot.
You may take it as a matter of winning or losing, I see it as a matter of backwardness, violent bigotry, and blatantly uncivilized behavior. Whether it's the Tally Ban at Bamiyan, Islamic jihadists in NWFP, or RSS/BJP/VHP/JS/BD/SS Hindutva zealots in Ayodhya, Gujarat, or Mumbai, such actions are detestable.

BTW, Aurangzeb built many Hindu temples. Also, Akbar gave Amritsar as a gift to Sikhs. So don't use Mughals as examples of bigotry or destruction - there have been worse, e.g. BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SS. Let's hope we can find logical solutions to such simple problems, instead of allowing bigots to loot, burn, destroy, rape, mutilate, and kill.

" If I were in your place, I would have gathered money and moved the structure, brick by brick, to another location (even sent it to Pakistan!), and then build a great monument to the Ram in its place. You would have your temple, an ancient mosque would have been presesrved, and right-wing Hindutvas would not have appeared as hyenas competing for the biggest piece of a carcass. Just my advice. Thanks.
"

Sirji, that was exactly the offer made by the RSS. Not to send it to Pakistan, but to have the mosque right next to the tempple perimeter. Habeeb Jilani of the BMAC turned it down. The Muslims of Ayodhya were actually far more sensitive to Hindu concerns compared to the Hraami Muslim leaders who formed the BMAC. The BMAC was formed only by ex Congressi politicians of UP / Bihar who were showing a total hardline. The demolishing of the Babri Masjid was also a message to the Muslim hardliners that if push comes to shove, you will lose. If Muslims are to take one step towards Hindu concerns, Hindus will take two. But not ten. It is no longer the time of Aurangzeb.

"Some other sites subject to right-wing Hindu revisionist thinking - Badshahi Mosque, Lahore, BaRa and Chota ImambaRas, Lucknow, Jama Masjid, Delhi and don't forget Faisal Mosque in Islamabad. "

As far as I know the demand is for three, Kashi, Mathura and ayodhya.

Cobra #21 {"Tell me something if non-Muslims destroyed Mecca Kabah and Medina. Would you be just as charitable and call history a history or would you try to reclaim the holy places?

Cobray,
I have already asnwered your question earlier. Now, please allow me to intrduce some sensible advice to the right-wing Hindutva RSS/BJP/VHP/JS/SS/BD goons who destroyed the historical Babri Masjid in '92. Actually, I saw the images when I was on a vist to Turkey during the winter of '92 and I saw a crazy mob of what appeared to be drug-crazed ugly barbarians vengefully demolishing a poor ancient structure.
Many other Turks, watched this scene with horror, and kept exclaiming "Jami, Jami" - "Mosque, Mosque" with shock and disgust.

Now, if, as you claim, the exact site of the Babri Masjid was the location of Ram's temple, there were many civilized ways to satisfy everyone. I believe you when you say that it was a holy Hindu site. If I were in your place, I would have gathered money and moved the structure, brick by brick, to another location (even sent it to Pakistan!), and then build a great monument to the Ram in its place. You would have your temple, an ancient mosque would have been presesrved, and right-wing Hindutvas would not have appeared as hyenas competing for the biggest piece of a carcass. Just my advice. Thanks.

#14 Shore Sahib {"Pakistani Muslims werent any better after the Babri Masjid Episode.

There tore down hindu temples all over Pakistan. I personally saw mobs demolish two hindu temples in lahore's inner walled city."}

Shore Sahib,
And that is just as stupid and unpardonable as the Babri Masjid demolition. Whether in anger or out of sheer hatred, destruction of historical buildings is a total betrayal of the lack of civilization in the destructive barbarains. Please add the Tally Ban destroying the Bamiyan Budhha to this list of barbarians.

#21 Cobra {"Tell me something if non-Muslims destroyed Mecca Kabah and Medina. Would you be just as charitable and call history a history or would you try to reclaim the holy places? "}

While both you and Jang are upset to the point of RSS pitch, neither of you have documented how the Musliims destroyed and razed the existing Hindu temple to Ram and then constructed the Babri Masjid.

As for destroying Mecca Kabah, what do you think the Great Mosque of Cordoba was? It was constructed by Omayyad Caliph Abbur Rahman as an alternative to performing Haj in Mecca which was under Abbasid control. As you probably should know, the Christians conquered Cordoba in 1236 and were going to destroy the Great Mosque. The Cordobans, who loved their mosque so much, requested the Christians to not destroy the mosque and instead preserve it as a Church. Today, there is a cathedral inside the famous mosque.

I hope this answers your question.

Next you guys will claim that Muslims build the Dome of the Rock after destroying and razing the Temple of Solomon (rebuilt by Herod the Great).

Some other sites subject to right-wing Hindu revisionist thinking - Badshahi Mosque, Lahore, BaRa and Chota ImambaRas, Lucknow, Jama Masjid, Delhi and don't forget Faisal Mosque in Islamabad.

If Muslims destroyed ancient temples just to build mosques in their place, why would they donate Amritsar for Sikhs to build the Golden Temple?

Re: # 21
"Tell me something if non-Muslims destroyed Mecca Kabah and Medina. Would you be just as charitable and call history a history or would you try to reclaim the holy places?"

If I remember correctly, the entire justification of Mohammad in destroying Kabba was based upon the notion of reclaiming the temple of Abrahim!!
Mohammad justified the attack by charging the original inhabitants with being the "occupier" of Abraham's temple!!

The same logic is used by idolators to pull down the Babri masjid!!!

The Babri Masjid was not really a mosque. There were no Islamic prayers offered in it. Also, Egypt and Pakistan have destroyed plenty of mosques to build canals / dams etc. There is nothing particularly sacred to the Muslims about Babri Masjid. The Hindi position is this..there are 2000 documented instances of Mandirs being demolished to build Mosques. Hindus only want three to be returned back; Ayodhya, Varanasi, Mathura. The rest are "kaha sunna maaf".

Qami saab is writing about one Muslim being killed by UP Police. There were many Hindus killed by the UP Police during Maulana Mulayam's sarkar as well.

"#5 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on December 6, 2007 1:17:59 pm Cobray,
Your logic and certainty are both dismal. What proof is there that the Babri Masjid was built by Muslims after they razed the Ram Temple in Ayodhya?

Using your logic, we may need to demolish most of the churches in Rome. These were built on the ruins of Roman temples, even some material from the Coliseum."

Sure, but the defenders of Roman faith didn't servive beyond Constantine. However, Hindus did survive, thrive and are a major force in India.

Tell me something if non-Muslims destroyed Mecca Kabah and Medina. Would you be just as charitable and call history a history or would you try to reclaim the holy places?

"#10 Posted by ISlamIslam"

I don't know what are you on but for your information India is officially secular country. Whether that gets practiced is a different issue. Ideally, that's how every state should be. Equal protection to all it's citizens. And freedom to practice their religion (within the bounds of the law of the land). The fact that various governments at the state level and at the center, at worst- sided with Hindus and at best remained silent spectators is a shame.

Agree with destruction though.

"Similarly Islamic Shariah (law) instructs that when a certain place is made a Masjid it can never change its status. The original land can never be replaced or sold out."

Islamic law does not apply to hindu idolators and cannot give an iota of right to any momeen to occupy and destroy a hindu temple and convert it into a masjid. They should be payed back for defiling our temples!!

"One of his close friends, Yunus Ali, was shot-dead by the UP police on December 7, 1992 before his naked eyes. "

Sure, the innocence of that person would be presumed because he is a muslim!!

"They later campaigned for communal polarization of Hindus and Muslims..."

Nonnsense, muslims were already polarized, ghettoized, bhai -bhai-ized, ummahized. It was hindus who were fragmented. Babri masjid consolidated it. Infact, every terror strike consolidates them further. Yes, kill us!! We would consolidate further. In fact, this consolidation is happening the world over. Christians are uniting like anything after every terror strike.
Come on Jehadis, arise and hit us, that would make our resolve firmer.

"It was a moment when all truths about religious coexistence suddenly proved false."

Nonsense, and this is a BS Taquiyya. Truths about RELIGIOUS CO-EXISTENCE ARE NOT TAUGHT IN MUSLIM SEMINARIES!

They are anyway FALSE by default in Islamic world view. The entire plank of Islam falls if its 'superiority' is denied.!

M B Qasmi
Sorry for your sense of loss. I understand and fully sympathise with your sense of uncertainty too. Though a Hindu, I felt it too, firstly because the act of demolition of a religious place by a mob was a terrible thing to watch and secondly the loss of confidence that the Indian state would be impartial. As an individual I couldn't have prevented such a thing from happening but I feel responsible despite that. The Indian state is nothing but individuals like myself. As an individual I have taken the responsibility of understanding the history and politics that precipitated the event(history stretching back to a few decades before independence, not really back to Babur as people think), and hopefully you will someday too. My sad conclusion is that it is unavoidable that we acknowledge that history to undo its effects on the future, alas.