Moeed Pirzada December 7, 2007
#65 Posted by tahmed32 on December 9, 2007 11:35:33 am
pc: why dont you provide a link instead of these lengthy cut and pastes?
#66 Posted by pavocavalry on December 9, 2007 11:35:56 am
Re: # 63 :-- You are right . But if you study Islamic history it is against any criticism , against all iconoclasts .
#67 Posted by tahmed32 on December 9, 2007 11:36:33 am
#64 is this addressed to me? what do you mean by Stateless?
#68 Posted by Eklavya on December 9, 2007 11:40:23 am
tahmed ji, without trying to ruffle any feathers here, the challenge seems to be tied to the 'doctrine of necessity' - which is merely another name for sacrificing broader principles at the alter of unique political expediency.
The problem with political expediency is that it creates the need for future political expediencies. IMHO, Pakistan has never escaped the grip of that vicious cycle.
(not to imply that the Indians don't face that problem.)
The problem with political expediency is that it creates the need for future political expediencies. IMHO, Pakistan has never escaped the grip of that vicious cycle.
(not to imply that the Indians don't face that problem.)
#69 Posted by tahmed32 on December 9, 2007 11:42:00 am
#66 pc: instead of blaming islam (which is like blaming the sky and the earth - in other words nothing), lets put accountability where it belongs - which is with Musharraf today, for continuing this absurd tradition of acting as if this is still 1925 and that the generals are masters rather than servants of the nation.
#70 Posted by tahmed32 on December 9, 2007 11:43:42 am
#68 Eklavya: agreed, sir. This "doctrine of necessity" is an example of the self-serving rubbish that musharraf comes up with and thinks that everyone else is stupid enough to buy.
#71 Posted by pavocavalry on December 9, 2007 11:45:06 am
Re: # 69:-- Who will bell the cat ! Who will do the accountability ! There is that gap between Theory and action !
#72 Posted by tahmed32 on December 9, 2007 11:45:08 am
pc: nice chatting with you. and learnt a few things. bye.
#73 Posted by pavocavalry on December 9, 2007 11:46:33 am
Re: # 72 ;-- Thanks to you and all who interacted.
#74 Posted by arjun8 on December 9, 2007 11:47:52 am
#17 Posted by pavocavalry on December 9, 2007 2:08:45 am
Like it made use of 9/11 to occupy Afghanistan......a great strategic attack
yeah..I wonder why they occupied afghanistan after 9/11 instead of Kazakhstan. It wasn't like the 9/11 planners were hiding in afghanistan or anything like that..
Like it made use of 9/11 to occupy Afghanistan......a great strategic attack
yeah..I wonder why they occupied afghanistan after 9/11 instead of Kazakhstan. It wasn't like the 9/11 planners were hiding in afghanistan or anything like that..
#75 Posted by Eklavya on December 9, 2007 11:50:07 am
Chowk has arrived, if A. H. Amin has chosen to spend any time at all here (despite the disagreement many people will have with him, as arjun8 #74 does).
#76 Posted by pavocavalry on December 9, 2007 11:52:03 am
Re: # 74:-- The USA wanted bases to carry out surgical strikes in the future.They are now excellently poised to play hell with Central Asia,Iran,China and Pakistan whenever they like.They have 19 excellent air bases at a very cheap cost.They can buy the people in this region with money.The so called Jihad from 1979 till 1992 was all about money.
#77 Posted by tahmed32 on December 9, 2007 11:52:10 am
#71 pc: i thought i should respond to your interesting question before signing off: thousands of brave pakistanis have already belled the cat!!
Thus: musharraf is sans the precious wardi to which he was clinging. the two exiled mainstream politicians (whatever their undoubted weaknesses) are back. Pakistani people have shown the world that they are a force to be reckoned with once they are pushed into a corner, and cannot be ignored!
Three cheers for the Pakistani people, and above all for the Chief Justice.
And there is a special place in hell reserved for those who seek to rule over Pakistanis, rather than do what they are paid to do (e.g. defend the country, in case musharraf when he was COAS, not attack it and start lording it over its people).
Thus: musharraf is sans the precious wardi to which he was clinging. the two exiled mainstream politicians (whatever their undoubted weaknesses) are back. Pakistani people have shown the world that they are a force to be reckoned with once they are pushed into a corner, and cannot be ignored!
Three cheers for the Pakistani people, and above all for the Chief Justice.
And there is a special place in hell reserved for those who seek to rule over Pakistanis, rather than do what they are paid to do (e.g. defend the country, in case musharraf when he was COAS, not attack it and start lording it over its people).
#78 Posted by zeemax on December 9, 2007 11:53:32 am
http://www.pakistanthinktank.org/default.php/p/articles/pk/538
Important Announcements
PTT: Welcomes Mr.A.H.Amin as Invited Distinguished Commentator
Forward to a friend
The Pakistan Think Tank Organization is pleased to announce the name of Mr.A.H.Amin, as Invited Distinguished Commentator. Mr.Amin has a unique perspective into the geopolitical history of Pakistan. He writes with brilliant honesty and passion and is not afraid to call a spade, a spade, in his own inimitable style. He captures the pathos of events and uses his analytical skills to make conceptual judgements. He has an in-depth understanding of Pakistani history, culture, mores, and geostrategic cross-currents. He is a thinker and writer in the defence and strategic threat area of geopolitical and military studies. We are proud to have him amongst our contributors.
Mr.A.H.Amin's Accomplishments
Education :-- FORMAN CHRISTIAN COLLEGE LAHORE , PAKISTAN MILITARY ACADEMY KAKUL .
Career Profile :-- Training Military Academy 03 May 1981 to 17 March 1983.Commissioned in the Tank Corps 11 Cavalary (FF ) ex P.A.V.O 17 March 1983 , posted to 58 Cavalry on raising May 1985 till May 1988, 15 Lancers May 1988 till April 1990 , MTO HQ 3RD Armoured Brigade April 1990-October 1990 , GSO-3 Research Trial and Publications School of Armour Nowshera October 1990 till June 1991 , Instructor Tactical Wing School of Armour June 1991 till January 1992, Second in Command 5 Independent Armoured Squadron Nowshera Janaury 1992 till August 1992, Officer Commanding 5 Indep Armd Sqn Okara August 1992 till December 1993 , 14 Lancers Bahawalnagar December 1993 till March 1994.Retired from Army 05 March 1994.Free Lance journalist and researcher March 1994 till todate.Editor monthly Globe Karachi August 2000 till May 2002 , Assistant Editor Defence Journal Karachi August 2000 till May 2002,Editor Journal of Afghanistan Studies June 2004 till August 2005 . Member Society of Military History , VMI , Arlington Virginia since 1995.
Publications :-- Sepoy Rebellion of 1857-59 Reinterpreted , Pakistan Army till 1965 , Indo Pak Wars 1947-71 A Strategic and Operational Analysis , The Essential Clausewitz.Publications held at Library of Congress,US Army Staff College , US Military Academy West Point , Frunze Military Academy Russia,US Armor School , US Army War College and Columbia University Library.
Writings published in Pakistan Army Journal,PRAVDA,Citadel Magazine of Command and Staff College Quetta,Defence Journal,Indian Strategic Review,Nation,News,DAWN,Friday Times , Globe,Afghanistan Times,Outlook Afghanistan, ORBAT.COM , Baloch Voice ,Intelli Briefs, Frontier Post,Journal of Military History,Journal of Afghanistan Studies.
Based in Kabul Afghanistan since June 2004 till to date as a free lance researcher and analyst.
Important Announcements
PTT: Welcomes Mr.A.H.Amin as Invited Distinguished Commentator
Forward to a friend
The Pakistan Think Tank Organization is pleased to announce the name of Mr.A.H.Amin, as Invited Distinguished Commentator. Mr.Amin has a unique perspective into the geopolitical history of Pakistan. He writes with brilliant honesty and passion and is not afraid to call a spade, a spade, in his own inimitable style. He captures the pathos of events and uses his analytical skills to make conceptual judgements. He has an in-depth understanding of Pakistani history, culture, mores, and geostrategic cross-currents. He is a thinker and writer in the defence and strategic threat area of geopolitical and military studies. We are proud to have him amongst our contributors.
Mr.A.H.Amin's Accomplishments
Education :-- FORMAN CHRISTIAN COLLEGE LAHORE , PAKISTAN MILITARY ACADEMY KAKUL .
Career Profile :-- Training Military Academy 03 May 1981 to 17 March 1983.Commissioned in the Tank Corps 11 Cavalary (FF ) ex P.A.V.O 17 March 1983 , posted to 58 Cavalry on raising May 1985 till May 1988, 15 Lancers May 1988 till April 1990 , MTO HQ 3RD Armoured Brigade April 1990-October 1990 , GSO-3 Research Trial and Publications School of Armour Nowshera October 1990 till June 1991 , Instructor Tactical Wing School of Armour June 1991 till January 1992, Second in Command 5 Independent Armoured Squadron Nowshera Janaury 1992 till August 1992, Officer Commanding 5 Indep Armd Sqn Okara August 1992 till December 1993 , 14 Lancers Bahawalnagar December 1993 till March 1994.Retired from Army 05 March 1994.Free Lance journalist and researcher March 1994 till todate.Editor monthly Globe Karachi August 2000 till May 2002 , Assistant Editor Defence Journal Karachi August 2000 till May 2002,Editor Journal of Afghanistan Studies June 2004 till August 2005 . Member Society of Military History , VMI , Arlington Virginia since 1995.
Publications :-- Sepoy Rebellion of 1857-59 Reinterpreted , Pakistan Army till 1965 , Indo Pak Wars 1947-71 A Strategic and Operational Analysis , The Essential Clausewitz.Publications held at Library of Congress,US Army Staff College , US Military Academy West Point , Frunze Military Academy Russia,US Armor School , US Army War College and Columbia University Library.
Writings published in Pakistan Army Journal,PRAVDA,Citadel Magazine of Command and Staff College Quetta,Defence Journal,Indian Strategic Review,Nation,News,DAWN,Friday Times , Globe,Afghanistan Times,Outlook Afghanistan, ORBAT.COM , Baloch Voice ,Intelli Briefs, Frontier Post,Journal of Military History,Journal of Afghanistan Studies.
Based in Kabul Afghanistan since June 2004 till to date as a free lance researcher and analyst.
#79 Posted by zeemax on December 9, 2007 11:54:17 am
Why Waziristan cannot be conquered
by A. H. Amin
(Friday, February 13, 2004)
"Beware of despising the tribals. They brought both Muslim and non Muslim Emperors to grief whether it was Jahangir, Shah Jahan, Aurangzeb, Ranjit Singh or the British king."
Those who know the Pathans and their history will know exactly what is happening in Waziristan today and which Lashkar is doing what and for what reason. The tribal Pathans have traditionally been supreme fighters who defied the Mughal occupiers, the Sikh occupiers, the British occupiers and now the latest occupiers, i.e. the US coalition chasing the Pathans and Muslims of various castes and creeds motivated by sheer ideology.
While the tribesmen know the art of resistance they also know the art of extortion from occupiers who try to buy them. Thus while the tribal Pathans killed many thousand occupiers in the British era they also managed to extort many subsidy payments from the British. Thus the same tribesmen who worked as contract laborers making roads for the British during day time, enjoyed sniping and shooting many British officers after sunset or during daytime when not on duty.
Thus when a lashkar of tribesmen appears to be on the payroll of political agents fed by US CIA dollars, all is not what it seems. In this case the tribals are performing an overt function of collaboration and a covert function of increasing their financial muscle which may be subsequently channelised into gun running, drugs or Jihad.
The tribesmen were not loyal subjects of the British. They spent their lives in sniping and ambushing the British and their mercenary Indian troops. Their life script was not to get a BA degree and become a minor civil servant or an ICS officer more loyal than the King. Nor did they get barristers degree and conduct profitable law practices in the courts of the British occupiers.
These men defied the British, killing over 10,000 British or Indian troops from 1849 to 1947, bleeding the British Empire white, forcing the British to maintain a division plus force in the Trans Indus tribal tract. These tribesmen gave sanctuary to Mughal Prince Ferozshah and to the followers of Syed Ahmad Shaheed of Rai Barelly at Malka and Ambela. These tribesmen greeted the British Indian army with fire while many today are famous as great Muslim leaders accepted knighthood and were ridiculed for doing so by Maulana Zafar Ali Khan of "Zamindar" fame.
The tribesmen acceded to Pakistan out of their free will. They were not conquered by the Pakistan Army. As a matter of fact no army including the Mughal, Sikh or British ever succeeded in conquering them. The tribal areas were occupied, overrun but never conquered. Their mosques were never used as stables and powder magazines as many in the tract East of Indus including the Badshahi Mosque of Lahore.
The tribesmen were not saved by the army of the English East India Company unlike the Muslims of Delhi or UP or the Muslims of Punjab and settled Pathan areas were from Hindu Marathas and Sikhs in 1803 and 1849. The tribesmen's mosques were not restored after humble petitioning to the English East India Company as was the case with Badshahi Mosque of Lahore in 1856.
The tribesmen were not willing mercenaries of the British and many Mehsuds, Wazirs and Afridis defected to the German lines in WW-I and returned to Tirah and Waziristan to wage Jihad against the British. The tribesmen cannot be compared with mercenary Muslim troops who opened fire on the Holy Ka'aba on British orders or who gunned down freedom fighters like an FF unit did at Jallianwalla Bagh in 1919.
The tribesmen acceded to Pakistan on the solemn assurance by Mr Jinnah that their customs and their Pathan way of life would not be interfered with. The tribesmen waged Pakistan's first successful Jihad in Kashmir in 1947-48. The tribesmen were used as cannon fodder during the Afghan War of 1979-89 when many generals became rich overnight and won cheap glory without exposing themselves to within 300 miles of hostile fire. The tribals braved salvoes of Soviet Katushkas and shrapnel of Hind Gun ships while sons of ex military tailors became billionaires.
The tribals were more Pan Islamist than Jamaluddin Afghani, more martial than any so called martial race of Indo Pak. More resolute than any general from Cape Komorin to Khunjerab Pass. The tribals are raised as snipers, not as sycophants, their life script is not to please 15 different seniors and get a good ACR, practicing sycophancy with civilian prime ministers and launching coups without a shot being fired against unarmed civilian heads of state.
What is happening in the tribal areas is not in Pakistan's national interests. The venom which has been forced into the tribal Pathan's soul is counterproductive for Pakistan in the long run.
The tribal areas has seen many occupiers. They are classic practitioners of Liddell Harts strategy of indirect approach. Their guerrilla tactics are far more subtle than that of Mao, Ho Chi Minh or Che Guevara. They apply Mao without knowing what he had written. They apply Sandino's Nicaraguan tactics which brought US Marines to grief without ever having heard of him. They are warriors par excellence.
For each militant handed over the tribals gain goodwill from greedy political agents who they deceive and thus succeed in sheltering 50 militants. There is a method in the apparent outward collaboration of the tribals. They cannot be overawed by a telephone call or bought by a million dollar retainer.
No cadet school or college can tame the tribals for whom music is the whistling bullet and its ricochet in the rocky gorges of Waziristan. The tribals don't need a federal government to make money. Their very location is an asset.
Beware of despising the tribals. They brought both Muslim and non Muslim Emperors to grief whether it was Jahangir, Shah Jahan, Aurangzeb, Ranjit Singh or the British king.
These are not the men who would sell their mother for a thousand dollars as some US senator said about some Pakistani leaders. These leaders may be found in Dera Ghazi Khan or somewhere East of the tribal areas. The tribals are sons of their fathers and there is no confusion about their paternity.
A man who does not know the tribal Pathan way of life is not competent to judge the subtleties of their character. It appears that the same mistake is being made today in the highest echelons of Pakistan's present military usurpers.
Source:
by courtesy & © 2004 A. H. Amin
#80 Posted by pavocavalry on December 9, 2007 11:54:21 am
Re: # 75;-- My dear I have disgreed and disobeyed my bosses in the army and evn been arrested for that.That was a matter of life and your career.Here its just talk.I am in a place where every day 5 to 10 people die.I have to praise or criticise,religion is not the issue.
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