Fundamentalism and Violence

Re: # 17

"people like that Somali woman hersi ali as if muslims are the only one who are sexist or homophobes..."

Nonsense , apostates make cler distinction between the ideology of Islam and those who are its main victims - viz. the common muslims.
Hirsi Ali mainly writes against the ideology of Islam and its main beneficiaries - the practicing male muslims !!!

#22 aslam: your post isnt very coherent - you seem to be berating hirsi for being a liar (which i assume she was when faking her immigration forms) on the one hand and berating the dutch for throwing her out on the other. in any cases - in both cases you are wrong.

from all indications, the real reason the dutch threw her out was because they did not want any more trouble between hirsi and the muslim orthodoxy. thus, the dutch were guilty of appeasement (of them dutch mullahs), not discrimination.

For the interest of all.
Pakistan rich list. Top ten is interesting.

1 - Mian Muhammad Mansha Yaha Pakistan
Ranking: 1 Worth: £1.25b ($2.5billion)Industry: Businessman

2 - Asif Ali Zardari Pakistan
Ranking: 2 Worth: £900m ($1.8billion) Industry: Politics

3 - Sir Anwar Pervaiz UK
Ranking: 3 Worth: £750m ($1.5billion) Industry: Businessman

4 - Nawaz Sharif & Shahbaz Sharif family Saudi Arabia/Pakistan
Ranking: 4 Worth: £700m ($1.4billion) Industry: Politics/Businessman

5 - Saddaruddin Hashwani Pakistan
Ranking: 5 Worth: £550m ($1.1billion) Industry: Businessman

6 - Nasir Schon & family U.A.E/Pakistan
Ranking: 6 (tied at 6) Worth: £500m ($1billion) Industry: Businessman

7 - Abdul Razzaq Yakoub & family U.A.E
Ranking: 6 (tied at 6) Worth: £500m ($1billion) Industry: Businessman

8 - Rafiq Habib & Rasheed Habib Pakistan
Ranking: 7 Worth: £450m ($900) Industry: Businessman

9 - Tariq Saigol & Nasim Saigol Pakistan
Ranking: 8 Worth: £425m ($850) Industry: Businessman

10 - Dewan Yousaf Farooqui Pakistan
Ranking: 9 (tied at 9) Worth: £400m ($800) Industry: Businessman

aaa

#17 Posted by aslam644 on December 10, 2007 2:12:56 pm


Unfortunately in the west a whole industry has grown of pseudo-intellectuals to capitalise on demonising fundamentalist islam/ muslims


The industry only exists because muslims get their undies in a knot at every perceived slight or insult to mo.

What happened to the danish cartoon editors? nothing..

the swedish guy who drew mo-dog? nothing..

not everyone in the west is willing to put up with this islamofascist BS..

Re: # 18
Minorities every where are vulnerable from majorities extremists.
It is the minorities who are discriminated against in jobs, housing, education etc.
Whether its muslims in europe or hindus in Malaysia and fiji.

I think the dutch found out that she was a liar and a fraud who was out to make a quick buck no real intellectual depth.

Re: # 16
dear nature_lover...over the years i have realized that most of us went through social, religious and cultural conditioning by our families and communities. that is why most people die with the same faith and religion as their parents. our emotional and intellectual birth starts when we develop critical thinking (khurram...are you happy i used critical not creative...smiles)and develop a philosophy and lifestyle that is based on our own experiences. it is the process of leaving the highway of tradition and following the trail of our hearts. that is a new birth. a philosopher said...most of us die before we are fully born. all the best...sohail

#14 drsohail {"for me growing up in peshawar where there was no clean water to drink and i drank from a river where cows and humans swam together, driking clean water was a blessing and it was after reading mystic poetry i realized that the notion that water is odourless, tasteless and colourless was not true."}

Dr. Sohail Sahib,
Thank you for taking my suggestions in the context that I intended. Finally, with the extension of that analogy to a specific place with real animals, you have brought home a point effectively.

Writing about things that have nothing to do with reality and then becoming an expert at something about which one knows next to nothing is a wonderfully western concept. Only the west can keep producing "orientalists" who always seem to point south. :)
Please leave this craft to westerners and you just tell us about the water in Peshawar, the Kabul river, qissa khwani bazaar, and the wisdom of kabir das. Thanks and good writing, my friend.

drsohail, can you please refrain from using the word 'creative'. Thanks.

aslam: the dutch went from one extreme (making her a member of the parliament) to another (throwing her out of the country on accout of her views). such political expediencies are hardly worth saluting.

muslims like hersi ali, even if one disagrees with some things she says, play and essential role to play in the expatriate community - challenge the religious orthodox whose understanding of islam and of the west reflects their own ignorance and their close-mindedness.

Dr sohail
Unfortunately in the west a whole industry has grown of pseudo-intellectuals to capitalise on demonising fundamentalist islam/ muslims, people like that Somali woman hersi ali as if muslims are the only one who are sexist or homophobes.

I salute the dutch for having realised the danger of having such people in their midst and stripped her of nationality and got rid of her.

Dr Sohail,

To me you are like a prophet of the modern age.

We do need psychologists, sociologists and therapists like you.

How can we wake up "gharibs" , oppressed ones of Pakistan...?? that is the main challenge.

Please write about some techniques / approaches which you may suggest to break this deadly and vicious cycle.

My kindest regards,

Methinks that me read some of the passages in some book. Where? Me wonders. Maybe the learned Dr could identify the source of the book.

Re: # 13
dear salim chauhan...thanks for your creative suggestions. i will keep them in mind in the future. you gave an analogy of clean water for my article...tasteless and bland. let me pursue your analogy further.
for me growing up in peshawar where there was no clean water to drink and i drank from a river where cows and humans swam together, driking clean water was a blessing and it was after reading mystic poetry i realized that the notion that water is odourless, tasteless and colourless was not true. it was a major disocery that water had a taste. when we get used to coke we lose taste of water. this is just a creative response to your creative letter...
kabir das said
every one can see drops of water in an ocean
only a few can see an ocean in a drop of water.
all the best...sohail

Drsohail Sahib {"drsohail #12 {"am quite aware that some of the chowk readers love to have a heated debate and like most contravercial articles. They are disappointed in my articles. On the other hand there are many who like my simple but honest style and send me letters to discuss,,,"}

Dr. Sohail Sahib,
I apologize for any misunderstanding I may have created about your style of writing. Please understand that my criticism is not directed at you personally, your expertise, or even your style. I am objecting to the well-written article that leaves us with no real bases, no concrete factors, no real examples, and a sweeping attempt to forcibly connect dots that aren't even in the same plane. I am an avid reader of your articles and have enjoyed several of them. My complaint is that this particular essay is like drinking water from a Styrofoam cup - serves a purpose but not very uplifting aesthetically, spiritually, physically, emotionally, or even intellectually. Perhaps a few examples of behavior or events to enhance the credibility of the four generic schools could have helped. Also, please ditch that stale “…and Pakis have nukes” emphasis – it sounds too CNNish and extremely western, gora, and frankly, self-serving in an occidental sort of way. Coming from Pakistan, you could have at least used a suraahi ki mitti to make the water tastier. :)

Re: # 11
Dear Salim Chauhan...If you like spicy food and like to add tabasca sauce that is wonderful. Such sauce leads to confrontation and contaversy and there is heated debate.
When i was reading about the topic i read many books and many articles and found that each writer and author focused on one issue and ignored others.
When i was reading Robert Pape's book...Dying to Win...he highlighted that there are many fundamnetalist Muslims in many Muslim countries but they are not militant or violent. He connected violence with political factors alongside religious factors. But even him being a sociologist ignored the psychological factors as highlighted by tahmed 22...we need to have a comprehensive approach and try to understand fundamentalism and its relationship with violence.
I am quite aware that some of the chowk readers love to have a heated debate and like most contravercial articles. They are disappointed in my articles. On the other hand there are many who like my simple but honest style and send me letters to discuss the psychology of
human sexuality
human creativity
human spirituality
psychology of suicide bombers
i share with chowk readers what i read and analyze and introspect. For your taste i will try to add tabasca sauce.
You are a well read man and I enjoy your insights in human condition. Share with me your insight in the relationship between fundamentalism and violence. I am a student and willing to learn more. sincerely sohail