Tahir Qazi December 15, 2007
#82 Posted by Eklavya on December 19, 2007 8:14:58 am
Chalta, "simple" people understand these things for what they really are, and were supposed to be. Newswallas who preach to us that we should all be 'secularists' and 'respect' everybody are not simple people.
Even gods and prophets would have avoided this tribe. No one ever heard of any god or prophet ever calling a news conference to explain his/her views. No one tries for the impossible.
Even gods and prophets would have avoided this tribe. No one ever heard of any god or prophet ever calling a news conference to explain his/her views. No one tries for the impossible.
#81 Posted by chaltahai on December 19, 2007 7:46:22 am
#78, Eki yaar, are you saying that simple people don't understand religion or the stories that may involve it? Does one have to be a "rocket scientis" or a "phd" in comparative religon to write a news story concerning religion? Think about what you said two days ago that was a direct counter to the point you are making below. Yaar, you vacillate more that Pamela Andersen about what you want.
#80 Posted by Eklavya on December 19, 2007 7:07:48 am
dost-mittar ji, sanction or basis, if signficantly large numnbers of Hindus considered (and consider) Sati a religious issue then religious it is.
Rest of us, who oppose it, ought to oppose it knowing full well that it could be/is a religious issue (for many).
Alternative, we can simply let it be. Probably even revive the practice in Canada.
Rest of us, who oppose it, ought to oppose it knowing full well that it could be/is a religious issue (for many).
Alternative, we can simply let it be. Probably even revive the practice in Canada.
#79 Posted by Eklavya on December 19, 2007 6:46:26 am
We should be much more concerned about the over-the-top reaction of Canadians. With these hysterical reactions, Canadian dream of building a truely multi-everything society will remain a pipedream. What is needed is a more measured appreciation of a complex human drama, a sad and unfortunate one, no doubt.
#78 Posted by Eklavya on December 19, 2007 6:39:45 am
# 75, agree with you, Loop. The news situation here seems to be similar to what we see everyday in India. Newsmen run with stories involving religion even though they have knowledge neither of the stories nor of religions.
It's quite likely the issue was not just immodest dress, but far more serious.
It's quite likely the issue was not just immodest dress, but far more serious.
#77 Posted by dost_mittar on December 19, 2007 5:10:42 am
tahir, anil, harish:
I said that the sati has religious sanction, not that it has a religious basis. I am actually not aware of any relgious text that approves sati, but when you have people building temples to worship a sati and when the priests protested against the British when they try to ban sati, I suggest that it does have a religious sanction.
I said that the sati has religious sanction, not that it has a religious basis. I am actually not aware of any relgious text that approves sati, but when you have people building temples to worship a sati and when the priests protested against the British when they try to ban sati, I suggest that it does have a religious sanction.
#76 Posted by Kamath on December 18, 2007 6:00:57 pm
Read this column directly from the mouth of a well known Pakistani Muslim and a columnist for Daily Times.!
Young Aqsa is no more-
Truth and denial —Farrukh Saleem
Dec 19,2007 Dailytimes, Lahore, Pakistan
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\12\19\story_19-12-2 007_pg3_4
Within a few hours Aqsa was no more. Her life was strangled out of her. Muhammad’s beautiful baby is no more — she died from neck compression. Aqsa is dead; she can wear a scarf no more; can go to the school no more. Aqsa can change into jeans no more; she can breathe no more
Sixteen years ago, God endowed Muhammad Parvez, a cab driver in Canada, with a beautiful baby-girl. Muhammad named her Aqsa Parvez. Eleven years ago, Aqsa started school. For the past few years, Aqsa had been leaving home every morning wearing track pants and a headscarf, headed for Applewood Heights Secondary School. Once inside school premises, Aqsa would routinely remove her scarf and change into jeans.
A year ago, Muhammad took a passenger to Applewood Heights Secondary School. Perchance, he spotted Aqsa without her headscarf. Since that day, a year ago, Aqsa had been showing up at school with bruised arms. At 8 am on December 10, 2007, the police received a telephone call from a man claiming to have killed his daughter. The police rushed Aqsa, suffering from life-threatening neck injuries, to Credit Valley Hospital. Aqsa, in critical condition, had to be transferred to the Hospital for Sick Children and put on life support.
Within a few hours Aqsa was no more. Her life was strangled out of her. Muhammad’s beautiful baby is no more — she died from neck compression. Aqsa is dead; she can wear a scarf no more; can go to the school no more. Aqsa can change into jeans no more; she can breathe no more. Did Muhammad use Aqsa’s scarf to strangle her? Would Muhammad Parvez go to hell or heaven?
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police has charged Muhammad with second-degree murder. (In Canada, murder can be first or second degree. First degree murder is “planned and deliberate; murder while hijacking an aircraft, sexual assault, murder during terrorist activity, murder while being associated with a criminal organization or while committing intimidation.” Second-degree murder is “all murder which is not first degree murder.”)
Honour killing is our export to Canada. Women who do not wear hijab are not virtuous. Hijab is a Muslim woman’s identity. Hijab is religion. Hijab is the sixth pillar. Hijab symbolises sexual modesty. The West is conspiring to crush Islamic identity. Fact or fiction?
Here’s a fact: Aqsa has been murdered. For us, denial is not an option. According to the United Nations Population Fund more than 5,000 women worldwide fall victim to honour killing. Denial is not an option.
According to the UN’s Special Rapporteur “honour killings had been reported in Egypt, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, the Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey and Yemen”. Egypt is 90 percent Muslim, Iran 98 percent, Jordan 92 percent, Lebanon 60 percent, Morocco 99 percent, Pakistan 97 percent, the Syrian Arab Republic 90 percent and Turkey 99 percent. Of the 192 member-states of the United Nations almost all honour killings take place in nine overwhelmingly Muslim countries. Denial is not an option.
More recently, honour killings have taken place in France, Germany, the United Kingdom and Canada. Intriguingly, all these honour killings have taken place in Muslim communities of France, Germany, the United Kingdom and Canada. Denial is not an option.
Here’s another fact: Illiteracy and honour killings are correlated. Jacobabad District has a literacy rate of 23 percent, the lowest in Sindh. Jacobabad has the highest rate of crimes of honour; 91 honour killings in 2002. In illiteracy, next to Jacobabad are Ghotki and Larkana. Both Ghotki and Larkana have high rates of crimes of honour: 67 honour killings in Ghotki and 62 in Larkana. Hyderabad, on the other hand, has a literacy rate of 44 percent and there were 5 honour killings in 2002. Denial is not an option.
On March 1, 2005, PMLQ and MMA legislators in our National Assembly joined hands and defeated a bill that was introduced to strengthen the law against honour killings. In November 2006, the Senate passed the bill with PPP and ANP supporting the bill while the PMLN abstained.
Another fact: Around 2.5 percent of humanity lives in Pakistan. But, nearly 30 percent of all honour killings reported from around the world are reported from Pakistan.
Is denial an option? Who will take the honour out of these killings? Who will expose the horror from under the hijab? Who will protect women from the laws of men?
Dr Farrukh Saleem is an Islamabad-based economist and analyst
Young Aqsa is no more-
Truth and denial —Farrukh Saleem
Dec 19,2007 Dailytimes, Lahore, Pakistan
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\12\19\story_19-12-2 007_pg3_4
Within a few hours Aqsa was no more. Her life was strangled out of her. Muhammad’s beautiful baby is no more — she died from neck compression. Aqsa is dead; she can wear a scarf no more; can go to the school no more. Aqsa can change into jeans no more; she can breathe no more
Sixteen years ago, God endowed Muhammad Parvez, a cab driver in Canada, with a beautiful baby-girl. Muhammad named her Aqsa Parvez. Eleven years ago, Aqsa started school. For the past few years, Aqsa had been leaving home every morning wearing track pants and a headscarf, headed for Applewood Heights Secondary School. Once inside school premises, Aqsa would routinely remove her scarf and change into jeans.
A year ago, Muhammad took a passenger to Applewood Heights Secondary School. Perchance, he spotted Aqsa without her headscarf. Since that day, a year ago, Aqsa had been showing up at school with bruised arms. At 8 am on December 10, 2007, the police received a telephone call from a man claiming to have killed his daughter. The police rushed Aqsa, suffering from life-threatening neck injuries, to Credit Valley Hospital. Aqsa, in critical condition, had to be transferred to the Hospital for Sick Children and put on life support.
Within a few hours Aqsa was no more. Her life was strangled out of her. Muhammad’s beautiful baby is no more — she died from neck compression. Aqsa is dead; she can wear a scarf no more; can go to the school no more. Aqsa can change into jeans no more; she can breathe no more. Did Muhammad use Aqsa’s scarf to strangle her? Would Muhammad Parvez go to hell or heaven?
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police has charged Muhammad with second-degree murder. (In Canada, murder can be first or second degree. First degree murder is “planned and deliberate; murder while hijacking an aircraft, sexual assault, murder during terrorist activity, murder while being associated with a criminal organization or while committing intimidation.” Second-degree murder is “all murder which is not first degree murder.”)
Honour killing is our export to Canada. Women who do not wear hijab are not virtuous. Hijab is a Muslim woman’s identity. Hijab is religion. Hijab is the sixth pillar. Hijab symbolises sexual modesty. The West is conspiring to crush Islamic identity. Fact or fiction?
Here’s a fact: Aqsa has been murdered. For us, denial is not an option. According to the United Nations Population Fund more than 5,000 women worldwide fall victim to honour killing. Denial is not an option.
According to the UN’s Special Rapporteur “honour killings had been reported in Egypt, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, the Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey and Yemen”. Egypt is 90 percent Muslim, Iran 98 percent, Jordan 92 percent, Lebanon 60 percent, Morocco 99 percent, Pakistan 97 percent, the Syrian Arab Republic 90 percent and Turkey 99 percent. Of the 192 member-states of the United Nations almost all honour killings take place in nine overwhelmingly Muslim countries. Denial is not an option.
More recently, honour killings have taken place in France, Germany, the United Kingdom and Canada. Intriguingly, all these honour killings have taken place in Muslim communities of France, Germany, the United Kingdom and Canada. Denial is not an option.
Here’s another fact: Illiteracy and honour killings are correlated. Jacobabad District has a literacy rate of 23 percent, the lowest in Sindh. Jacobabad has the highest rate of crimes of honour; 91 honour killings in 2002. In illiteracy, next to Jacobabad are Ghotki and Larkana. Both Ghotki and Larkana have high rates of crimes of honour: 67 honour killings in Ghotki and 62 in Larkana. Hyderabad, on the other hand, has a literacy rate of 44 percent and there were 5 honour killings in 2002. Denial is not an option.
On March 1, 2005, PMLQ and MMA legislators in our National Assembly joined hands and defeated a bill that was introduced to strengthen the law against honour killings. In November 2006, the Senate passed the bill with PPP and ANP supporting the bill while the PMLN abstained.
Another fact: Around 2.5 percent of humanity lives in Pakistan. But, nearly 30 percent of all honour killings reported from around the world are reported from Pakistan.
Is denial an option? Who will take the honour out of these killings? Who will expose the horror from under the hijab? Who will protect women from the laws of men?
Dr Farrukh Saleem is an Islamabad-based economist and analyst
#75 Posted by LOOP on December 18, 2007 1:43:32 am
I'm sure the real cause behind the murder is not revealed but the media has taken this is a perfect case to deface Islam. If the man were so islamic he would never have killed her but turned her out of the house at most and severed all ties with her. Maybe it was a case of renouncing faith which lead to the murder.
Only Allah knows best and we as Muslims should not give wind to such controversial items and debate about them. We were not there we didnt see anything, speculation and doubt are two evils.
Only Allah knows best and we as Muslims should not give wind to such controversial items and debate about them. We were not there we didnt see anything, speculation and doubt are two evils.
#74 Posted by nkg on December 17, 2007 10:56:31 pm
Re: # 66
Dowry burning is bania class culture in India.This is not visible in lower economic group people or rich people. It has nothing to do with indian philosopy.
A person is free to wear any dress. Naga Sanyasis roam around without any dress. If a person is not able to control his emotion after seeing a person of opposite sex, it is his/her problem. There is no point blaming the girl/boy as improperly dressed. If you are part of any instituion, follow that. But in public/private life, let the person decide his/her own dress.
Dowry burning is bania class culture in India.This is not visible in lower economic group people or rich people. It has nothing to do with indian philosopy.
A person is free to wear any dress. Naga Sanyasis roam around without any dress. If a person is not able to control his emotion after seeing a person of opposite sex, it is his/her problem. There is no point blaming the girl/boy as improperly dressed. If you are part of any instituion, follow that. But in public/private life, let the person decide his/her own dress.
#73 Posted by masadi on December 17, 2007 11:58:38 am
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#71 Posted by khurram on December 17, 2007 8:50:57 am
Gill sahib,
What does hadood legislation have to do with hijab?
What does hadood legislation have to do with hijab?
#70 Posted by freethinker on December 17, 2007 8:37:36 am
khurram:
I am sorry that my sentence got tangled up. Read "there is a need for eliminating the legislation of hijab (hudood legislation)" instead of what was written in the original post. See if it makes sense.
Mohammad Gill
I am sorry that my sentence got tangled up. Read "there is a need for eliminating the legislation of hijab (hudood legislation)" instead of what was written in the original post. See if it makes sense.
Mohammad Gill
#69 Posted by Eklavya on December 17, 2007 8:30:55 am
gill sahib # 66
Hard to figure out what you are saying, Sir. First, you would agree that killing all non-Hijabis is definitely not an Islamic injunction. But then you step far beyond just making that point. You go on to suggest that Muslims should condemn Islamic injunctions if they personally disagree with them.
That seems just wrong.
Hard to figure out what you are saying, Sir. First, you would agree that killing all non-Hijabis is definitely not an Islamic injunction. But then you step far beyond just making that point. You go on to suggest that Muslims should condemn Islamic injunctions if they personally disagree with them.
That seems just wrong.
#68 Posted by khurram on December 17, 2007 8:18:11 am
Re #52, freethinker,
"there is a need for eliminating the legislation of hijab by the enforcement of hudood regulation in Pakistan "
what?
"there is a need for eliminating the legislation of hijab by the enforcement of hudood regulation in Pakistan "
what?
#67 Posted by arjun8 on December 17, 2007 6:49:13 am
#65 Posted by nasah on December 17, 2007 5:31:15 am
“The alternative is Saudi Arabia. Why don’t they pick that?” he added.
good question...why didn't he pick saudi arabia? they're totally into the women's rights thing...if she were raped there, she'd be forgiven of her 200 lashes sentence.
“The alternative is Saudi Arabia. Why don’t they pick that?” he added.
good question...why didn't he pick saudi arabia? they're totally into the women's rights thing...if she were raped there, she'd be forgiven of her 200 lashes sentence.
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