Death of Aqsa Pervez: A reflection on Canadian Muslim-Pakistanis
Nauman Mir December 16, 2007
#26 Posted by mohar11 on December 19, 2007 9:18:48 am
zee
Laddu has a point... you pakis are just too caught-up in this "shame" business... "shame" is bedouin culture - it's NOT your culture... your culture is hanood culture - where cowboy Lord Krishna gets his enlightenment by playing footsie with "uncovered" girls on banks of beautiful Jamuna...
Get back to your roots... this nonsense has gone too far... :)
Laddu has a point... you pakis are just too caught-up in this "shame" business... "shame" is bedouin culture - it's NOT your culture... your culture is hanood culture - where cowboy Lord Krishna gets his enlightenment by playing footsie with "uncovered" girls on banks of beautiful Jamuna...
Get back to your roots... this nonsense has gone too far... :)
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#25 Posted by laddu on December 19, 2007 9:08:41 am
Re: # 24
Miyan Zee,
Truth hurts! I know you also feel the same "shame" when your women go around 'uncovered'. It is certainly difficult to get over with the sense of shame that Islam puts in momeens.
Miyan Zee,
Truth hurts! I know you also feel the same "shame" when your women go around 'uncovered'. It is certainly difficult to get over with the sense of shame that Islam puts in momeens.
#24 Posted by zeemax on December 19, 2007 5:43:57 am
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#23 Posted by laddu on December 19, 2007 4:38:58 am
On 11th of December, in Mississauga Canada, Aqsa, a 16 year old Canadian girl was choked to death by her Pakistani father, Muhammad Parvez, for not wearing hijab. “She wanted to live her life the way she wanted to, not the way her parents wanted her to,” her classmates told the reporters. “She just wanted to be herself, honestly she just wanted to show her beauty, and not be pushed around by her parents telling her what she has to be like, what she has to do. Nobody would want to do that.”
Yes, nobody would want to do that, but sadly many girls born in Islamic families are forced to do that.
One day after the death of Aqsa, I received an email from an 18 year old girl from UK. She said that she has been reading about Islam and had decided not to be a Muslim. However, her Muslim parents force her to wear hijab and her sister told her that if their mother learns about her views, “she would either kill you or she’ll kill herself”.
I sent her the story of Aqsa and what her father did to her. She wrote back and said, “What an animal! Anyways, I don’t think my mom cares about my beliefs, as long as I don’t have a boy friend, [and don’t] take off my hijaab.”
The truth is that Aqsa’s father was not an animal either. He was just a devout Muslim, who had worked hard and had built a nice home for his family in an upscale neighborhood. He was an ideal immigrant, a real “success story.” However, he had no choice but to kill his daughter. He did what he had to do. As one friend wrote, “In a way there are two victims in this case. This man like any other father must have loved, nurtured and cared for his daughter for years. It is so unfortunate that he finds himself turned into a monster that ate his own progeny.” Then this friend asked “What kind of ideology was it that turned a simple hard working family man into a revolting image of himself?”
What the westerners do not understand is that Muslims have different values, which are diametrically in contrast with western values. Western societies are guilt based. In guilt based societies individuals base their conduct on “right” and “wrong”. They try to do the right thing and if they do something wrong, they feel guilty. Muslim societies are shame based. In shame based societies individuals base their conduct on the opinion of others about them. What really counts is to look good. In shame cultures, if you do something wrong, as long as no one sees it and knows about it, you are okay. You can still keep your head high and act as an honorable member of the society. It is the image that you project of yourself that matters. You must do everything to protect that image. It is all about keeping the appearances.
In guilt societies, how you dress or don’t dress is your business. You can practice nudity and even promiscuity and have no shame. As long as you don’t violate someone else’s rights you can do whatever you like. Such a thing is inconceivable for Muslims who come from shame societies where everybody's life is the business of everybody else. This makes the western and Islamic cultures essentially incompatible. If this problem is not resolved soon, it will result is a major clash and dire consequences.
In a subsequent email my young British friend wrote, “My mom has noticed a change in me, ..and she said today, ‘I hope you haven’t done anything because so an so aunt will laugh.' Jesus! Who cares about so and so aunt who doesn’t even care about us?”
This is the crux of the problem. In Islamic societies people live in function of the opinion of others about them. That is the only thing that really matters to them. Muhammad Parvez was devastated by the fact that her 16 year old daughter wanted to dress like her classmates and show off her beauty. How could he look into the eyes of his Muslim friends with such a daughter? Muslims call western women “sluts” for not covering themselves. For Mr. Parvez his daughter’s western clothing was a major source of shame and dishonor. He had no choice but to kill her. There is hardly anything for which we humans are willing to die for, or kill, like our honor. This is far truer in shame based societies, where guilt plays virtually no role and everything revolves around shame and honor.
Millions of girls living in Muslim families in the west are abused, beaten and face death by their own loved ones because of honor. Don’t assume that these girls are the only victims. Their families are also victims. They are left with no choice, but to kill the apple of their own eyes. Everyone in these tragedies is a victim. It’s the government that is guilty!
The government is guilty for letting down its Muslim citizens and particularly its most vulnerable members, the Muslim girls. There was no need for Aqsa to die. If hijab was baned she would be alive today. If hijab is banned, no Muslim can look down at other Muslims for not observing it and no one will have to feel shame. Muslims hardy wear hijab or observe any Islamic custom when they live in places where there are few Muslims. They start behaving Islamicly when they congregate together and build their shame based communities.
The 20th century Pahlavi ruler, Reza Shah, knew how to handle this problem. He banned the chador (Iranian style of veil) in 1936. He ordered the police to arrest woman wearing chador and forcibly remove it. Although this policy outraged the mullahs, the average Iranians were relieved. The ban allowed them to be free without having to deal with the burden of shame. The historian Mir-Hosseini writes, “this move was welcomed by Westernized and upperclass men and women, who saw it in liberal terms as a first step in granting women their rights." She continues, 'between 1941 and 1979 wearing hejab [hijab] was no longer an offence, but it was a real hindrance to climbing the social ladder, a badge of backwardness and a marker of class. A headscarf, let alone the chador, prejudiced the chances of advancement in work and society not only of working women but also of men, who were increasingly expected to appear with their wives at social functions. Fashionable hotels and restaurants refused to admit women with chador, schools and universities actively discouraged the chador, although the headscarf was tolerated. It was common to see girls from traditional families, who had to leave home with the chador, arriving at school without it and then putting it on again on the way home'." (cited in El-Guindi 1999 pp. 174-175)
Despite his flaws, Reza Shah is hailed as the father of modern Persia by many Iranians because he banned the hijab. He was a Muslim and was keenly aware of the Muslim mind. He knew that only with the fist of the law Muslims can be rescued from their backward customs. He broke down the power and prestige of the clergy, discarded the Islamic law, closed down Islamic madrassahs, forbade religious processions, and replaced the Islamic calendar with the old Persian-Zoroastrian solar calendar. He prohibited the Islamic call to prayer and discouraged the pilgrimage to Mecca. He even forced the mullahs to shave, take off their robe and engage in honorable professions. The majority of Iranians welcomed his reforms. He was seen as a liberator. He set Iran free from the oppression of the culture of shame. It is this shame that inhibits Muslims to take the first step and stand out of the crowd. It is because of this shame that no reform can ever happen in Islamic societies unless it is imposed on them by force.
Western governments have a duty towards their Muslim citizens and particularly their women that traditionally have been the most disadvantaged members of Islamic societies. If hijab was banned in Canada Aqsa would be alive today and a hard working good father would not have had to choose between his daughter and his honor. The government failed both Aqsa and her father.
There are millions of Muslim families in western countries who share Parvezs' predicament. The girls in these families are under greater pressure and bigger danger than those living in Islamic countries. In Islamic countries everyone wears the same clothing. It is much easier for Muslim girls to conform and comply there than in the West where they are forced to be different. The government owes these girls protection.
Aqsa is dead. Her beauty will be devoured by a cold grave. That bud was nipped before blossoming. Will we let her death go in vain or will we ban hijab and set millions of Muslims free in her memory?
We must ban hijab, save innocent lives, end this abuse, and absolve the poor Muslim parents from having to make such difficult choices. Muslim parents are not animals. They are torn apart between the love of their children and their honor. Only the government can take that burden away. The only people who would not welcome this ban will be the mullahs who will see their power reduced. The average Muslims will be grateful and relieved, even though to keep the image of faithful believers, may publicly oppose the decision. .
Now that Muslims are living in the West in such a large numbers, politicians must make an extra effort to understand the Muslim mind. Only the hand of law can put an end to this culture of shame and help Muslims to integrate. If we let this division stand, a clash between Islam and the West will become inevitable. This means civil war.
Yes, nobody would want to do that, but sadly many girls born in Islamic families are forced to do that.
One day after the death of Aqsa, I received an email from an 18 year old girl from UK. She said that she has been reading about Islam and had decided not to be a Muslim. However, her Muslim parents force her to wear hijab and her sister told her that if their mother learns about her views, “she would either kill you or she’ll kill herself”.
I sent her the story of Aqsa and what her father did to her. She wrote back and said, “What an animal! Anyways, I don’t think my mom cares about my beliefs, as long as I don’t have a boy friend, [and don’t] take off my hijaab.”
The truth is that Aqsa’s father was not an animal either. He was just a devout Muslim, who had worked hard and had built a nice home for his family in an upscale neighborhood. He was an ideal immigrant, a real “success story.” However, he had no choice but to kill his daughter. He did what he had to do. As one friend wrote, “In a way there are two victims in this case. This man like any other father must have loved, nurtured and cared for his daughter for years. It is so unfortunate that he finds himself turned into a monster that ate his own progeny.” Then this friend asked “What kind of ideology was it that turned a simple hard working family man into a revolting image of himself?”
What the westerners do not understand is that Muslims have different values, which are diametrically in contrast with western values. Western societies are guilt based. In guilt based societies individuals base their conduct on “right” and “wrong”. They try to do the right thing and if they do something wrong, they feel guilty. Muslim societies are shame based. In shame based societies individuals base their conduct on the opinion of others about them. What really counts is to look good. In shame cultures, if you do something wrong, as long as no one sees it and knows about it, you are okay. You can still keep your head high and act as an honorable member of the society. It is the image that you project of yourself that matters. You must do everything to protect that image. It is all about keeping the appearances.
In guilt societies, how you dress or don’t dress is your business. You can practice nudity and even promiscuity and have no shame. As long as you don’t violate someone else’s rights you can do whatever you like. Such a thing is inconceivable for Muslims who come from shame societies where everybody's life is the business of everybody else. This makes the western and Islamic cultures essentially incompatible. If this problem is not resolved soon, it will result is a major clash and dire consequences.
In a subsequent email my young British friend wrote, “My mom has noticed a change in me, ..and she said today, ‘I hope you haven’t done anything because so an so aunt will laugh.' Jesus! Who cares about so and so aunt who doesn’t even care about us?”
This is the crux of the problem. In Islamic societies people live in function of the opinion of others about them. That is the only thing that really matters to them. Muhammad Parvez was devastated by the fact that her 16 year old daughter wanted to dress like her classmates and show off her beauty. How could he look into the eyes of his Muslim friends with such a daughter? Muslims call western women “sluts” for not covering themselves. For Mr. Parvez his daughter’s western clothing was a major source of shame and dishonor. He had no choice but to kill her. There is hardly anything for which we humans are willing to die for, or kill, like our honor. This is far truer in shame based societies, where guilt plays virtually no role and everything revolves around shame and honor.
Millions of girls living in Muslim families in the west are abused, beaten and face death by their own loved ones because of honor. Don’t assume that these girls are the only victims. Their families are also victims. They are left with no choice, but to kill the apple of their own eyes. Everyone in these tragedies is a victim. It’s the government that is guilty!
The government is guilty for letting down its Muslim citizens and particularly its most vulnerable members, the Muslim girls. There was no need for Aqsa to die. If hijab was baned she would be alive today. If hijab is banned, no Muslim can look down at other Muslims for not observing it and no one will have to feel shame. Muslims hardy wear hijab or observe any Islamic custom when they live in places where there are few Muslims. They start behaving Islamicly when they congregate together and build their shame based communities.
The 20th century Pahlavi ruler, Reza Shah, knew how to handle this problem. He banned the chador (Iranian style of veil) in 1936. He ordered the police to arrest woman wearing chador and forcibly remove it. Although this policy outraged the mullahs, the average Iranians were relieved. The ban allowed them to be free without having to deal with the burden of shame. The historian Mir-Hosseini writes, “this move was welcomed by Westernized and upperclass men and women, who saw it in liberal terms as a first step in granting women their rights." She continues, 'between 1941 and 1979 wearing hejab [hijab] was no longer an offence, but it was a real hindrance to climbing the social ladder, a badge of backwardness and a marker of class. A headscarf, let alone the chador, prejudiced the chances of advancement in work and society not only of working women but also of men, who were increasingly expected to appear with their wives at social functions. Fashionable hotels and restaurants refused to admit women with chador, schools and universities actively discouraged the chador, although the headscarf was tolerated. It was common to see girls from traditional families, who had to leave home with the chador, arriving at school without it and then putting it on again on the way home'." (cited in El-Guindi 1999 pp. 174-175)
Despite his flaws, Reza Shah is hailed as the father of modern Persia by many Iranians because he banned the hijab. He was a Muslim and was keenly aware of the Muslim mind. He knew that only with the fist of the law Muslims can be rescued from their backward customs. He broke down the power and prestige of the clergy, discarded the Islamic law, closed down Islamic madrassahs, forbade religious processions, and replaced the Islamic calendar with the old Persian-Zoroastrian solar calendar. He prohibited the Islamic call to prayer and discouraged the pilgrimage to Mecca. He even forced the mullahs to shave, take off their robe and engage in honorable professions. The majority of Iranians welcomed his reforms. He was seen as a liberator. He set Iran free from the oppression of the culture of shame. It is this shame that inhibits Muslims to take the first step and stand out of the crowd. It is because of this shame that no reform can ever happen in Islamic societies unless it is imposed on them by force.
Western governments have a duty towards their Muslim citizens and particularly their women that traditionally have been the most disadvantaged members of Islamic societies. If hijab was banned in Canada Aqsa would be alive today and a hard working good father would not have had to choose between his daughter and his honor. The government failed both Aqsa and her father.
There are millions of Muslim families in western countries who share Parvezs' predicament. The girls in these families are under greater pressure and bigger danger than those living in Islamic countries. In Islamic countries everyone wears the same clothing. It is much easier for Muslim girls to conform and comply there than in the West where they are forced to be different. The government owes these girls protection.
Aqsa is dead. Her beauty will be devoured by a cold grave. That bud was nipped before blossoming. Will we let her death go in vain or will we ban hijab and set millions of Muslims free in her memory?
We must ban hijab, save innocent lives, end this abuse, and absolve the poor Muslim parents from having to make such difficult choices. Muslim parents are not animals. They are torn apart between the love of their children and their honor. Only the government can take that burden away. The only people who would not welcome this ban will be the mullahs who will see their power reduced. The average Muslims will be grateful and relieved, even though to keep the image of faithful believers, may publicly oppose the decision. .
Now that Muslims are living in the West in such a large numbers, politicians must make an extra effort to understand the Muslim mind. Only the hand of law can put an end to this culture of shame and help Muslims to integrate. If we let this division stand, a clash between Islam and the West will become inevitable. This means civil war.
#22 Posted by Eklavya on December 19, 2007 2:21:05 am
masan
That is a simple example of how interpretationism works.
Since so many people think only and EXCLUSIVELY in terms of 'interpretionism,' the rest of us have to pay attention to how commitment to interpretationism changes individuals and societies.
I am sure we have all noticed remarkable patterns. Allah/Hanuman/Shiva/Kali willing, we can all pool our ideas one day.
That is a simple example of how interpretationism works.
Since so many people think only and EXCLUSIVELY in terms of 'interpretionism,' the rest of us have to pay attention to how commitment to interpretationism changes individuals and societies.
I am sure we have all noticed remarkable patterns. Allah/Hanuman/Shiva/Kali willing, we can all pool our ideas one day.
#21 Posted by masanamuthu on December 18, 2007 4:24:16 am
3. When I mentioned Islam's position on murders and killings, my purpose was to state the position itself. I was not denying that Islamic fundamentalists use religion to justify their crimes. They do. Just because they say their crimes are justified by Islam, should we just blindly believe them? No. We have to look at the teachings of Islam for ourselves in order to know.
So I looked at the teaching of Islam you (and millions of Muslim apologists have quoted)
An oft-repeated verse of the Qur’an sums up Islam’s position: "if anyone kills a person…it shall be as if he killed the entire humanity" (5:32).
from
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html
005.032
YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
PICKTHAL: For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.
SHAKIR: For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.
and then I read the associated description by Mr. Maududi.
The story of the two sons of Adam has been related to reproach the Jews for their plot to kill the Holy Prophet and his Companions. (v. 11 & E.N. 30). The story has also been used to emphasize the sanctity of human life. 27 - 32
This clearly says the directive is just for Jews to behave properly after the Muslims gained control.
So you guys take one part of a sentence and goto town with the "goodness" of Islam. Is that how it works?. So is it Ok for others to take the "slay the idolators wherever you see" and goto town about the "badness" of Islam?.
So I looked at the teaching of Islam you (and millions of Muslim apologists have quoted)
An oft-repeated verse of the Qur’an sums up Islam’s position: "if anyone kills a person…it shall be as if he killed the entire humanity" (5:32).
from
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html
005.032
YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
PICKTHAL: For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.
SHAKIR: For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.
and then I read the associated description by Mr. Maududi.
The story of the two sons of Adam has been related to reproach the Jews for their plot to kill the Holy Prophet and his Companions. (v. 11 & E.N. 30). The story has also been used to emphasize the sanctity of human life. 27 - 32
This clearly says the directive is just for Jews to behave properly after the Muslims gained control.
So you guys take one part of a sentence and goto town with the "goodness" of Islam. Is that how it works?. So is it Ok for others to take the "slay the idolators wherever you see" and goto town about the "badness" of Islam?.
#20 Posted by majumdar on December 18, 2007 4:23:44 am
Aslam bhai,
(The paradox is, I have found that among muslim families they seem to accept sikh daughter in law but, they have disowned their daughter who has married a sikh boy that is an enigma wrapped up in mystery)
The answer is simple- patriarchy and property rights. The woman belongs to her hubby's family, not the vice versa. So the Sikh daughter in law is a Muslim but the daughter becomes a Sikh "property".
I presume the Sikh reaction will be just the same, accept Muslim d-i-l, reject Sikh daughter.
Regards
(The paradox is, I have found that among muslim families they seem to accept sikh daughter in law but, they have disowned their daughter who has married a sikh boy that is an enigma wrapped up in mystery)
The answer is simple- patriarchy and property rights. The woman belongs to her hubby's family, not the vice versa. So the Sikh daughter in law is a Muslim but the daughter becomes a Sikh "property".
I presume the Sikh reaction will be just the same, accept Muslim d-i-l, reject Sikh daughter.
Regards
#19 Posted by aslam644 on December 18, 2007 1:34:30 am
Re: # 13
The article I posted was about a case in derby, I know derby well, there is around 20,000 sikhs living in their own ghetto and about similar number mirpuris in a separate ghetto. The problems start in schools and colleges, where the fatal attraction takes place, there have been cases where muslim girls have ran off with sikh boys, likewise sikh girls have ran off with muslim boys. Very few from either communities approve of such unions.
The question you should be asking is, shouldn’t parents respect the wishes of their children?. The paradox is, I have found that among muslim families they seem to accept sikh daughter in law but, they have disowned their daughter who has married a sikh boy that is an enigma wrapped up in mystery
The article I posted was about a case in derby, I know derby well, there is around 20,000 sikhs living in their own ghetto and about similar number mirpuris in a separate ghetto. The problems start in schools and colleges, where the fatal attraction takes place, there have been cases where muslim girls have ran off with sikh boys, likewise sikh girls have ran off with muslim boys. Very few from either communities approve of such unions.
The question you should be asking is, shouldn’t parents respect the wishes of their children?. The paradox is, I have found that among muslim families they seem to accept sikh daughter in law but, they have disowned their daughter who has married a sikh boy that is an enigma wrapped up in mystery
#18 Posted by nkg on December 17, 2007 10:48:34 pm
Honor killing is not new in Northern India and Pakistan and other moslem countries. This mediaval barbaric culture of treating women as the personal property of her father, husband etc... has originated in mediaval period. We should get rid of this (ancient civilisations like India,China, Egypt, Greece , there was no such barbarism. It was prevalent in mediaval Europe also. We have inherited this from the moslems. In South India, this barbarism is not visible.)
#17 Posted by nkg on December 17, 2007 10:44:16 pm
Re: # 11
What a stupid logic!!! Now a days, you will find such logic, why LTTE is not called Hindu Terrorist but Moslems are only blamed...
Simple Answer: The crime and hatred is inspired by Islamic thought. So, that is islamic terrorism. LTTE problem is ethnic and political problem.
What a stupid logic!!! Now a days, you will find such logic, why LTTE is not called Hindu Terrorist but Moslems are only blamed...
Simple Answer: The crime and hatred is inspired by Islamic thought. So, that is islamic terrorism. LTTE problem is ethnic and political problem.
#16 Posted by arjun8 on December 17, 2007 7:04:22 pm
#15 Posted by naumanmir on December 17, 2007 3:54:19 pm
Just because they say their crimes are justified by Islam, should we just blindly believe them? No. We have to look at the teachings of Islam for ourselves in order to know.
when 4 british born muslims of pakistani descent blow up a bunch of people in london subways because of british participation in the war in iraq, it IS islamic terrorism...
heck, the london bomber even made a video saying you were attacked because you attacked us..the us isn't soccer fans or the britney spears fan club..
So to say that any Muslim who kills another person is doing it because his religion has told him to do so, is utterly wrong.
really? it's wrong..and yet they keep doing it again and again and again..and people like you keep making excuses for them..
Just because they say their crimes are justified by Islam, should we just blindly believe them? No. We have to look at the teachings of Islam for ourselves in order to know.
when 4 british born muslims of pakistani descent blow up a bunch of people in london subways because of british participation in the war in iraq, it IS islamic terrorism...
heck, the london bomber even made a video saying you were attacked because you attacked us..the us isn't soccer fans or the britney spears fan club..
So to say that any Muslim who kills another person is doing it because his religion has told him to do so, is utterly wrong.
really? it's wrong..and yet they keep doing it again and again and again..and people like you keep making excuses for them..
#15 Posted by naumanmir on December 17, 2007 3:54:19 pm
I appreciate the comments and would like to respond to two comments in particular.
Re: #2
You make a valid point that this was an honour killing. A great many people have made the same assumption. The reason I said that this murder was not an honour killing is because the motive of the crime is still unclear, as I mentioned in the article. It seems likely that honour might be the motive but so far, the father has not given his motive in court. Though he has confessed to the crime, the motive remains to be proven. I feel it is early to make the assumption on my own as to what the reason for the crime was.
Re: # 14
This is in response to a few comments that Mr. arjun8 has made. I would like to clarify a few points:
1. The murder of a daughter by her father has no link to the reasons that Muslim terrorists use to justify their crimes.
2. So far, the father of Aqsa Pervez has not given any reason, as to why he killed his daughter. He himself has not used religion to justify his crime. People have just assumed that he will use Islam to justify the murder. Fact is: he hasn't.
3. When I mentioned Islam's position on murders and killings, my purpose was to state the position itself. I was not denying that Islamic fundamentalists use religion to justify their crimes. They do. Just because they say their crimes are justified by Islam, should we just blindly believe them? No. We have to look at the teachings of Islam for ourselves in order to know.
Secondly, all religions have their fundamentalist groups. Islam is not unique in this case. And the fundamentalists of all religions use their respective religious ideologies to justify killing people. Is Islamic fundamentalism somehow more violent than other religious fundamentalisms? No. Its just that their actions seem to make the news headlines more. Their actions are still wrong and unjustified, for which they should be punished, but they are not the most violent. As far as number of deaths go, the terrorist group that has the highest record of killing is the Tamil Tigers, who believe in no religion, but a perverted version of Marxism. You can read more about this in a book "Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism" by Robert Pape.
So to say that any Muslim who kills another person is doing it because his religion has told him to do so, is utterly wrong. And even if a Muslim says that, we should look into the religion ourselves in order to know if there is a difference between what the religion says and what a person says.
Re: #2
You make a valid point that this was an honour killing. A great many people have made the same assumption. The reason I said that this murder was not an honour killing is because the motive of the crime is still unclear, as I mentioned in the article. It seems likely that honour might be the motive but so far, the father has not given his motive in court. Though he has confessed to the crime, the motive remains to be proven. I feel it is early to make the assumption on my own as to what the reason for the crime was.
Re: # 14
This is in response to a few comments that Mr. arjun8 has made. I would like to clarify a few points:
1. The murder of a daughter by her father has no link to the reasons that Muslim terrorists use to justify their crimes.
2. So far, the father of Aqsa Pervez has not given any reason, as to why he killed his daughter. He himself has not used religion to justify his crime. People have just assumed that he will use Islam to justify the murder. Fact is: he hasn't.
3. When I mentioned Islam's position on murders and killings, my purpose was to state the position itself. I was not denying that Islamic fundamentalists use religion to justify their crimes. They do. Just because they say their crimes are justified by Islam, should we just blindly believe them? No. We have to look at the teachings of Islam for ourselves in order to know.
Secondly, all religions have their fundamentalist groups. Islam is not unique in this case. And the fundamentalists of all religions use their respective religious ideologies to justify killing people. Is Islamic fundamentalism somehow more violent than other religious fundamentalisms? No. Its just that their actions seem to make the news headlines more. Their actions are still wrong and unjustified, for which they should be punished, but they are not the most violent. As far as number of deaths go, the terrorist group that has the highest record of killing is the Tamil Tigers, who believe in no religion, but a perverted version of Marxism. You can read more about this in a book "Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism" by Robert Pape.
So to say that any Muslim who kills another person is doing it because his religion has told him to do so, is utterly wrong. And even if a Muslim says that, we should look into the religion ourselves in order to know if there is a difference between what the religion says and what a person says.
#14 Posted by arjun8 on December 17, 2007 1:08:51 pm
#11 Posted by 12345678 on December 17, 2007 11:31:18 am
If a hindu kills someone, I suppose you balme it on the hindu religion then?
Nope..the washington snipers were muslims and noone but the small neocon fringe called them muslim snipers...
if a catholic spaniard blows himself up in a london subway saying he's doing it for what the brits did to his fellow irish catholics, that would be catholic terrorism..
9/11, bali, london have everything to do with islam...
If a hindu kills someone, I suppose you balme it on the hindu religion then?
Nope..the washington snipers were muslims and noone but the small neocon fringe called them muslim snipers...
if a catholic spaniard blows himself up in a london subway saying he's doing it for what the brits did to his fellow irish catholics, that would be catholic terrorism..
9/11, bali, london have everything to do with islam...
#13 Posted by Eklavya on December 17, 2007 12:58:53 pm
aslam bhai, a sikh girl having an affair with a Muslim boy is NOT a cultural issue, it is a religious issue, through and through. Any Muslim, even the most conservative one, would be happy she was saved from her 'cruel' parents who came in her way.
At least Muslim families should get your respect.
At least Muslim families should get your respect.
#12 Posted by rf786 on December 17, 2007 11:45:16 am
Re: # 7
laddu jee,
So much hatred is not good for the heart and soul, nor is it reasonably acceptable.
laddu jee,
So much hatred is not good for the heart and soul, nor is it reasonably acceptable.
#11 Posted by 12345678 on December 17, 2007 11:31:18 am
Re: # 3
arjun8, it is ignorant people like u who relate the wrong-doing of fanatics to a religion. If a hindu kills someone, I suppose you balme it on the hindu religion then?
It is sad how ignorant people like you start blaming religion based on the what some fanatics do whereas no religion in the world has anything to do with killings.
arjun8, it is ignorant people like u who relate the wrong-doing of fanatics to a religion. If a hindu kills someone, I suppose you balme it on the hindu religion then?
It is sad how ignorant people like you start blaming religion based on the what some fanatics do whereas no religion in the world has anything to do with killings.
#10 Posted by aslam644 on December 17, 2007 9:29:56 am
Re: # 9
It’s not only for muslims these hostels (refuges) they are for everybody as the case below of young sikh girl illustrates if there had been similar set up in Canada maybe aqsa would be alive today.
“A young Sikh girl was kidnapped by her mother and uncle after they discovered she was having a secret affair with a Muslim boy.
The 16-year-old girl's mum discovered the affair by finding messages to her boyfriend on her computer.
The teenager, fearing she would be forced into an arranged marriage, fled to a women's refuge.
But when she went out to visit a cinema, her mother and uncle ambushed her and bundled her into a car.
Refuge workers discovered the girl was missing and alerted police, who went to her Derby home and found her.
Prosecutor Richard Thatcher said: "He was a Muslim and she was a Sikh. Because of this, both parties felt if either of their families became aware of the existence of the relationship it would be ended.
"She was in fear. One of the things she was concerned about was that her parents would split them up but also that they would make her go to India to undergo an arranged marriage -- something she was not keen to do.
"She found their attitudes difficult and the attitude that there should be a lesser view taken of her boyfriend was something she could not understand and considered to be an old prejudice."
But Dan Gaskell, mitigating for the mother and uncle, said: "It was a totally misguided attempt to return this young girl to the family - to return her home, sit her down and sort things out.
"There was no intention of any forced marriage and no religious aspect to the case - this was perpetrated out of genuine concern."
Judge Christopher Plunkett, at Leicester Crown Court, dismissed the teenager's claims that her mother wanted to force an arranged marriage.
He told the two accused: "The two of you bundled your daughter into the back of your car, you drove her away against her will and you kept her against her will for a number of hours.
"If I was of the opinion that you had carried out this offence to get her to enter into an arranged marriage, I would not hesitate to send you to prison. This operation was, however ill-judged and, however misconceived, at its root well-intentioned.
"The result has been tragic - your daughter is estranged, you have lost her trust. Whatever you say your intention was, she is left in fear. This sort of behaviour is entirely unacceptable."
Yesterday, the girl's mother and uncle, who cannot be named, were given a 12-month suspended sentence and ordered to do a total of 205 hours of unpaid work between them. The mother was put under a 12-month supervision order. They each admitted one charge of kidnap.
After she left home, the 16-year-old girl was taken in by Derby's Karma Nirvana refuge, which helps women who fear being forced into arranged marriages.
The court heard that the young couple had started to communicate through MSN instant computer messaging.
The girl's family soon discovered the relationship and began sending the boy threatening messages. She then ran away to a women's refuge in Derby.
On July 26, the mother and uncle found out she was visiting a cinema in Leicester.
Mr Thatcher continued: "On leaving the cinema she became aware that her mother was in the lobby and ran away.
"She ran into a car park area into the arms of her uncle. He grabbed her. She was screaming and asking to be left alone. She was taken to a waiting car and, with the assistance of her mother, was bundled into the car."
The girl was told not to say anything when the police came looking for her. However, she ignored her family and told officers everything when they knocked on her uncle's door in Derby.
Following the case, Karma Nirvana founder Jasvinder Sanghera said, from what she knew about the case, the girl had a strong fear of being forced into an arranged marriage.
She said forced arranged marriages were on the increase in Derby, with six new cases each day. “
It’s not only for muslims these hostels (refuges) they are for everybody as the case below of young sikh girl illustrates if there had been similar set up in Canada maybe aqsa would be alive today.
“A young Sikh girl was kidnapped by her mother and uncle after they discovered she was having a secret affair with a Muslim boy.
The 16-year-old girl's mum discovered the affair by finding messages to her boyfriend on her computer.
The teenager, fearing she would be forced into an arranged marriage, fled to a women's refuge.
But when she went out to visit a cinema, her mother and uncle ambushed her and bundled her into a car.
Refuge workers discovered the girl was missing and alerted police, who went to her Derby home and found her.
Prosecutor Richard Thatcher said: "He was a Muslim and she was a Sikh. Because of this, both parties felt if either of their families became aware of the existence of the relationship it would be ended.
"She was in fear. One of the things she was concerned about was that her parents would split them up but also that they would make her go to India to undergo an arranged marriage -- something she was not keen to do.
"She found their attitudes difficult and the attitude that there should be a lesser view taken of her boyfriend was something she could not understand and considered to be an old prejudice."
But Dan Gaskell, mitigating for the mother and uncle, said: "It was a totally misguided attempt to return this young girl to the family - to return her home, sit her down and sort things out.
"There was no intention of any forced marriage and no religious aspect to the case - this was perpetrated out of genuine concern."
Judge Christopher Plunkett, at Leicester Crown Court, dismissed the teenager's claims that her mother wanted to force an arranged marriage.
He told the two accused: "The two of you bundled your daughter into the back of your car, you drove her away against her will and you kept her against her will for a number of hours.
"If I was of the opinion that you had carried out this offence to get her to enter into an arranged marriage, I would not hesitate to send you to prison. This operation was, however ill-judged and, however misconceived, at its root well-intentioned.
"The result has been tragic - your daughter is estranged, you have lost her trust. Whatever you say your intention was, she is left in fear. This sort of behaviour is entirely unacceptable."
Yesterday, the girl's mother and uncle, who cannot be named, were given a 12-month suspended sentence and ordered to do a total of 205 hours of unpaid work between them. The mother was put under a 12-month supervision order. They each admitted one charge of kidnap.
After she left home, the 16-year-old girl was taken in by Derby's Karma Nirvana refuge, which helps women who fear being forced into arranged marriages.
The court heard that the young couple had started to communicate through MSN instant computer messaging.
The girl's family soon discovered the relationship and began sending the boy threatening messages. She then ran away to a women's refuge in Derby.
On July 26, the mother and uncle found out she was visiting a cinema in Leicester.
Mr Thatcher continued: "On leaving the cinema she became aware that her mother was in the lobby and ran away.
"She ran into a car park area into the arms of her uncle. He grabbed her. She was screaming and asking to be left alone. She was taken to a waiting car and, with the assistance of her mother, was bundled into the car."
The girl was told not to say anything when the police came looking for her. However, she ignored her family and told officers everything when they knocked on her uncle's door in Derby.
Following the case, Karma Nirvana founder Jasvinder Sanghera said, from what she knew about the case, the girl had a strong fear of being forced into an arranged marriage.
She said forced arranged marriages were on the increase in Derby, with six new cases each day. “
#9 Posted by Eklavya on December 17, 2007 7:08:23 am
aslam, who are these teachers and the police? Mostly christian men and women.
Please, let's not promote anti-family, anti-religious goals here.
Please, let's not promote anti-family, anti-religious goals here.
#8 Posted by aslam644 on December 17, 2007 5:35:55 am
Re: # 5
That isn’t true any girl can go upto her teacher demand protection from her family, they would be whisked away by the police to safe hostel. Though majority end up being addicts or prostitutes for some reason but, that’s a different story.
That isn’t true any girl can go upto her teacher demand protection from her family, they would be whisked away by the police to safe hostel. Though majority end up being addicts or prostitutes for some reason but, that’s a different story.
#7 Posted by laddu on December 17, 2007 5:17:20 am
slam and the Woman
Part 2
Dr Younus Shaikh
"Indian sub-continent suffered the humiliation and destruction under Islam, as did Africa. The Islamic General Mohammad Bin Qasim decimated great Buddhist and Hindu civilizations. Acting on the orders of a representative of the Islamic Caliph, Governor Hijaj Bin Yousaf (who was a deadly enemy of the Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Hussein's family-some of whom have taken refuge under the Buddhist monarch Raja Dahir in Sindh), Mohammad Bin Qasim conquered the kingdom in 712 CE. His Islamic plunderers and looters demolished temples, shattered sculptures, plundered palaces and killed thousands. It took his Islamic army three days to slaughter the inhabitants of Debal, their women and children were taken into slavery. Later on he pardoned many prisoners and tried to establish a just rule of law which enraged the very Islamic and murderous Governor Hijaj Bin Yousaf; therefore Qasim again reverted to the Islamic barbarity and massacred between 6-16 thousands in Brahiminabad, their women and children were sent to Arab Islamic slave markets.
This was the beginning of the destruction of the classical ancient Indian civilization, and start of the medieval age of Islamic darkness in India. The 11th century witnessed another Islamic murderer and plunderer, Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi an agent of Islamic Caliph, who utterly ruined the great Indian civilization and looted and plundered most of its wealth. Fifty thousand Hindus were massacred in just one of his attacks at Somnath; he invaded India more than 17 times. Thousands of Hindu men and women were sent to the Islamic Afghani slave markets. The highly cultured and civilized daughters of the noble Hindu families were sold to the illiterate, un-cultured and barbaric Afghanis for equivalent of just one Frank (Pound/Dollar) each. After every Afghani Muslim had four wives each, there were lots of surplus women left; to that the evil Islamic mullahs responded with an ingenious translation of Koranic verses proving that Allah allowed each Muslim to marry 18 women at a time along with an unlimited number of women as concubines. Soon the new military instruments of the Islamic Caliph, the Turks and the Moguls followed, decimated captured Delhi and turned whole of India into a grand open-air slave camp. Sultan Firoze Shah Tughlaq- an Islamic Turk ruler had 100,000 men-slaves and thousands of female sex-slaves in his harem; the pious Islamic Mongol (Mogul) Emperor Shahjehan had 15,000 female sex-slaves and concubines for his personal harem. Indeed, the Islamic Turk invaders and rulers did the same in India as they did in Armenia-the whole races of peoples were exterminated. (However, credit must be given here to the agnostic and secular-minded, humanist Mogul Emperor Akbar the Great who refused the title of "the King of Muslims" and preferred to be called "the shadow of God"- for his God, he declared (in accordance with the mind and language of his age), is the beneficial deity and protector of all-Hindus, Muslims and other races of humans and creatures alike. He gave up his faith in Islam and tried his genius in creating a pluralistic religion comprising traditions of all the prevalent religions and ideologies of India. He even invited the Christian Jesuits priests from Goa to his ideology-discussion-palace but could not swallow their childish Jesus-son-of-God myth).
The medieval Islamic Empire of the Turkish Osmania Caliphate disappeared after Axis defeat in the World War I and with the rise of the Turkish secular hero Mustafa Kemal Pasha. However, it soon metamorphosed into the modern Saudi Islamic spiritual Empire. It is noteworthy that while the very Christian Holy Roman British Empire of the West required standing armies to control the bodies of men in all its colonies, the theocratic Saudi Islamic spiritual Empire of the East depended on the standing army of clerics-Mullahs and Imams-stationed in mosques to control the minds of men-the social, cultural spiritual and psychological control. It is true that Islam dismantled the old Arab tribal loyalties and some of its taboos and traditions; however it created a new tribe in the name of Islam with prophet himself as its chieftain and his family and tribe-Hashmis and Quresh acquiring an elevated and sacred status- a replacement of old medieval tribe with a new theocratic tribe. However, it essentially continued many of the ancient pagan rituals of worship as well as many of its old taboos and traditions. The tribal blood loyalties were replaced with the new tribal religious loyalties. At intellectual level Islam is merely the continuation of the medieval Jahiliya (Ignorance) in the holy garb of Islam- the Islamic Jahilia (the Islamic Medieval Ignorance). Modern Islam is, indeed, merely a continuation of that medieval tribal ignorance and mental backwardness.
Since the advent of the Saudi oil, petrodollars started to support the Islamic extremist movements all over the world and continue to do so. The Saudi petrodollars have created thousands of Islamic centres for social and political control and propaganda- the mosques-all over the world; 1000 mosques were built in the USA only in just last few years. Islamic brainwashing and political propaganda continues in these mosques and madrassas-the religious schools, as well as through the Islamic newspapers, magazines, radios and televisions. All kind of extremist Islamic terrorism and fundamentalism emanates and flows from the " Kernel of Evil- the Epicentre of the ugly Islamism-the Saudis". For Allah of the Saudis makes submission to Islam obligatory for all humans. Those who refuse their submission to Allah or differ from the Saudi version of Islam are called the Satan's party, and must be eliminated by Saudis or their paid and brainwashed zombies-the Muslims- called the Allah's party. Saudi Arabia is in fact the worst example of Islamic medievalism, and mental, social backwardness. Slavery was legal in Saudi until 1960s when it was officially abolished on the personal request of the non-Muslim US President J F Kennedy! However, it continues in new names: the foreign female domestic servants-the private property of the Islamic Bedouin barbarians. Saudi petrodollars continue to support the extremist and fundamentalist mullahs, and continue to lure the Islamic states into the barbarity of the Islamic medieval Shariah laws, and the Saudis continue to spread Islamic mullah terrorism and Islamic theocratic totalitarianism all over the world."
Iran basically an Islamic spiritual colony, is the godfather of the Shiite Islamic terrorism,( Saudi Sunnis are an Islamic sect like the Christian Catholics while Shiites are like the Protestant Christians). This Allah's government in Iran is the most evil religious state today. Torture, murder and Islamic absolutism- an Islamic version of Hitler's Nazism, Stalin's Communism and Mussolini's Fascism combined. There were 5,195 political and religious executions only in 1983 alone! Few years ago a bill was presented in Iranian Parliament asking that in according with the tradition of Islamic prophet, marriage should be allowed with 9 years old girl child! Human rights are definitely not allowed to exist in the Islamic Iran, where according to the English language Radio Iran, the Holy Spirit of imam Khomeni hovers over Iran all the times. Women have been hanged on suspicion of sexual crimes. Even proved virgins have been sent to gallows, however, they are hanged only after being raped, as Iranian Islam does not allow hanging of virgins. Iran had used its oil money in the interest of Islamic revolutions all over the world, and continues to do so.
Algeria, known for its Islamic civil war continues with its Islamic horrors. Islamic absolutism and totalitarianism is imposed with guns and slaughters in the interest of religion of Islam. Men are usually killed for their religio-political crimes while women are killed just for the crime of being a woman in an Islamic country. Thousands were islamically raped and more than 500 were killed only in 1993. Women have been killed for not wearing hijab (veil) or refusing to do so when imposed, for refusing to engage in Iranian-style temporary marriage, for being married to foreign men, and for working and living alone. The victims have been as young as 9 years and as old as 69 years. Women are often raped and tortured before being slaughtered. Thousands find themselves imprisoned in Islamic camps for no legitimate reasons. It is worth mentioning that women had a respectable status in society before the conquest of Algeria by Islam.
Egyptians, heir to the great Pharonic and Alexandrian civilizations continue to suffer the chronic evil of Islam. Known for the miseries of hijab and female genital mutilation, Egypt is also a centre of child prostitution for the wealthy Saudi Islamic Bedouins. In Egypt, four out of five women are forced to wear some kind of hijab. Female genital mutilation is very common; up to 73% in Cairo and 95% in rural areas. In 1995 a shaikh (religious dignity) of Al-Azhar University Cairo issued a fatwa (the religious decree or bill), which reportedly announced the procedure pf Female Genital Mutilation as "laudable practice that does honour to women"; and stating that it was, a religious duty as important as praying to Allah.
Sudan had a long history of Islamic conquest and repression. Islamic totalitarianism and barbarity continues to this day. Recently, Sudan was brutalized by the Saudi-backed Gen.Numeri's Islamic fascism. In 1992 a religious decree-fatwa-was issued that gave justification to the military onslaught against the non-Muslims. Islamic barbarism and genocide continues in Darfur to this day.
Indonesian Islamic army mass-murdered 200,000 East Timurian non-Muslims before East Timur got its independent. The country is known for its extreme religiosity, corruption, ethno-religious problems and Islamic extremism.
Pakistan, an experimental laboratory of Islam, had turned into a horror. Notwithstanding the hundreds of thousands of rapes, abductions and murders under the watchful eyes of the very Christian administration of the Holy Roman British Empire at the time of religious division of the Indian sub-continent in 1947 by the Christian British Empire, when half a million people were forced to migrate, Pakistan has never made any certain move towards civilization. Pakistan is a centre of Islamic fundamentalism, extremism and terrorism. Pakistan's very Islamic army invaded her province of East Pakistan in 1971, killing hundreds of thousands of Bengali Muslims and non-Muslims and raping half a million women ranging 9-69 years in age, in its attempt to create a half breed Pak-Bengal race which would be loyal to Islam and Pakistan. In 1974 Pakistan army invaded its province of Baluchistan resulting in similar calamities. In 1980 Islamist General Zia ul Haq introduced further islamization under the Saudi pressure for introduction of the medieval and tribal Islamic Shariah.. Along with the compulsory public prayers, there were brutal Islamic laws for the very natural sexual acts and for the presumed blasphemy: the repressive Hudood Ordinance and the infamous Blasphemy laws. Thousands of innocent women continue to suffer under these and other Islamic fascist laws for mere allegations. Raped women had been sent to gallows for the crime of being raped. (Islamic Shariah is the only system of law, which punishes the victims: Fatemollah). Pakistani state has proved to be a willing and sinister instrument of the evil Islamic mullah fascism and terrorism. Pakistan created the hated Afghan Taliban and many other such organizations in Afghanistan. Similar organizations continue to flourish in Pakistan and try to create a totalitarian and fascist Islamic state. Despite all tall claims of fight against Islamic terrorism, the evil continues to flourish. Pakistan is undoubtedly a major source of supply for the Iraqi terrorism. Illicit drug trade continues with the blessings of the Islamic mullahs and the ISI (the Islamic Military Intelligence). There are Islamic prostitution centres in every Islamic city of the Islamic Pakistan where abducted and non-Muslim women are forced to suffer. The secular, liberal and rationalist intellectuals continue to suffer in Pakistan like the victims of the infamous Christian inquisition of medieval Europe. While the Christian churches burnt the heretics, Islamic mullahs get them indicted for Blasphemy.
Eternal vigilance is the price of civilization.
(to be continued)
Part 2
Dr Younus Shaikh
"Indian sub-continent suffered the humiliation and destruction under Islam, as did Africa. The Islamic General Mohammad Bin Qasim decimated great Buddhist and Hindu civilizations. Acting on the orders of a representative of the Islamic Caliph, Governor Hijaj Bin Yousaf (who was a deadly enemy of the Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Hussein's family-some of whom have taken refuge under the Buddhist monarch Raja Dahir in Sindh), Mohammad Bin Qasim conquered the kingdom in 712 CE. His Islamic plunderers and looters demolished temples, shattered sculptures, plundered palaces and killed thousands. It took his Islamic army three days to slaughter the inhabitants of Debal, their women and children were taken into slavery. Later on he pardoned many prisoners and tried to establish a just rule of law which enraged the very Islamic and murderous Governor Hijaj Bin Yousaf; therefore Qasim again reverted to the Islamic barbarity and massacred between 6-16 thousands in Brahiminabad, their women and children were sent to Arab Islamic slave markets.
This was the beginning of the destruction of the classical ancient Indian civilization, and start of the medieval age of Islamic darkness in India. The 11th century witnessed another Islamic murderer and plunderer, Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi an agent of Islamic Caliph, who utterly ruined the great Indian civilization and looted and plundered most of its wealth. Fifty thousand Hindus were massacred in just one of his attacks at Somnath; he invaded India more than 17 times. Thousands of Hindu men and women were sent to the Islamic Afghani slave markets. The highly cultured and civilized daughters of the noble Hindu families were sold to the illiterate, un-cultured and barbaric Afghanis for equivalent of just one Frank (Pound/Dollar) each. After every Afghani Muslim had four wives each, there were lots of surplus women left; to that the evil Islamic mullahs responded with an ingenious translation of Koranic verses proving that Allah allowed each Muslim to marry 18 women at a time along with an unlimited number of women as concubines. Soon the new military instruments of the Islamic Caliph, the Turks and the Moguls followed, decimated captured Delhi and turned whole of India into a grand open-air slave camp. Sultan Firoze Shah Tughlaq- an Islamic Turk ruler had 100,000 men-slaves and thousands of female sex-slaves in his harem; the pious Islamic Mongol (Mogul) Emperor Shahjehan had 15,000 female sex-slaves and concubines for his personal harem. Indeed, the Islamic Turk invaders and rulers did the same in India as they did in Armenia-the whole races of peoples were exterminated. (However, credit must be given here to the agnostic and secular-minded, humanist Mogul Emperor Akbar the Great who refused the title of "the King of Muslims" and preferred to be called "the shadow of God"- for his God, he declared (in accordance with the mind and language of his age), is the beneficial deity and protector of all-Hindus, Muslims and other races of humans and creatures alike. He gave up his faith in Islam and tried his genius in creating a pluralistic religion comprising traditions of all the prevalent religions and ideologies of India. He even invited the Christian Jesuits priests from Goa to his ideology-discussion-palace but could not swallow their childish Jesus-son-of-God myth).
The medieval Islamic Empire of the Turkish Osmania Caliphate disappeared after Axis defeat in the World War I and with the rise of the Turkish secular hero Mustafa Kemal Pasha. However, it soon metamorphosed into the modern Saudi Islamic spiritual Empire. It is noteworthy that while the very Christian Holy Roman British Empire of the West required standing armies to control the bodies of men in all its colonies, the theocratic Saudi Islamic spiritual Empire of the East depended on the standing army of clerics-Mullahs and Imams-stationed in mosques to control the minds of men-the social, cultural spiritual and psychological control. It is true that Islam dismantled the old Arab tribal loyalties and some of its taboos and traditions; however it created a new tribe in the name of Islam with prophet himself as its chieftain and his family and tribe-Hashmis and Quresh acquiring an elevated and sacred status- a replacement of old medieval tribe with a new theocratic tribe. However, it essentially continued many of the ancient pagan rituals of worship as well as many of its old taboos and traditions. The tribal blood loyalties were replaced with the new tribal religious loyalties. At intellectual level Islam is merely the continuation of the medieval Jahiliya (Ignorance) in the holy garb of Islam- the Islamic Jahilia (the Islamic Medieval Ignorance). Modern Islam is, indeed, merely a continuation of that medieval tribal ignorance and mental backwardness.
Since the advent of the Saudi oil, petrodollars started to support the Islamic extremist movements all over the world and continue to do so. The Saudi petrodollars have created thousands of Islamic centres for social and political control and propaganda- the mosques-all over the world; 1000 mosques were built in the USA only in just last few years. Islamic brainwashing and political propaganda continues in these mosques and madrassas-the religious schools, as well as through the Islamic newspapers, magazines, radios and televisions. All kind of extremist Islamic terrorism and fundamentalism emanates and flows from the " Kernel of Evil- the Epicentre of the ugly Islamism-the Saudis". For Allah of the Saudis makes submission to Islam obligatory for all humans. Those who refuse their submission to Allah or differ from the Saudi version of Islam are called the Satan's party, and must be eliminated by Saudis or their paid and brainwashed zombies-the Muslims- called the Allah's party. Saudi Arabia is in fact the worst example of Islamic medievalism, and mental, social backwardness. Slavery was legal in Saudi until 1960s when it was officially abolished on the personal request of the non-Muslim US President J F Kennedy! However, it continues in new names: the foreign female domestic servants-the private property of the Islamic Bedouin barbarians. Saudi petrodollars continue to support the extremist and fundamentalist mullahs, and continue to lure the Islamic states into the barbarity of the Islamic medieval Shariah laws, and the Saudis continue to spread Islamic mullah terrorism and Islamic theocratic totalitarianism all over the world."
Iran basically an Islamic spiritual colony, is the godfather of the Shiite Islamic terrorism,( Saudi Sunnis are an Islamic sect like the Christian Catholics while Shiites are like the Protestant Christians). This Allah's government in Iran is the most evil religious state today. Torture, murder and Islamic absolutism- an Islamic version of Hitler's Nazism, Stalin's Communism and Mussolini's Fascism combined. There were 5,195 political and religious executions only in 1983 alone! Few years ago a bill was presented in Iranian Parliament asking that in according with the tradition of Islamic prophet, marriage should be allowed with 9 years old girl child! Human rights are definitely not allowed to exist in the Islamic Iran, where according to the English language Radio Iran, the Holy Spirit of imam Khomeni hovers over Iran all the times. Women have been hanged on suspicion of sexual crimes. Even proved virgins have been sent to gallows, however, they are hanged only after being raped, as Iranian Islam does not allow hanging of virgins. Iran had used its oil money in the interest of Islamic revolutions all over the world, and continues to do so.
Algeria, known for its Islamic civil war continues with its Islamic horrors. Islamic absolutism and totalitarianism is imposed with guns and slaughters in the interest of religion of Islam. Men are usually killed for their religio-political crimes while women are killed just for the crime of being a woman in an Islamic country. Thousands were islamically raped and more than 500 were killed only in 1993. Women have been killed for not wearing hijab (veil) or refusing to do so when imposed, for refusing to engage in Iranian-style temporary marriage, for being married to foreign men, and for working and living alone. The victims have been as young as 9 years and as old as 69 years. Women are often raped and tortured before being slaughtered. Thousands find themselves imprisoned in Islamic camps for no legitimate reasons. It is worth mentioning that women had a respectable status in society before the conquest of Algeria by Islam.
Egyptians, heir to the great Pharonic and Alexandrian civilizations continue to suffer the chronic evil of Islam. Known for the miseries of hijab and female genital mutilation, Egypt is also a centre of child prostitution for the wealthy Saudi Islamic Bedouins. In Egypt, four out of five women are forced to wear some kind of hijab. Female genital mutilation is very common; up to 73% in Cairo and 95% in rural areas. In 1995 a shaikh (religious dignity) of Al-Azhar University Cairo issued a fatwa (the religious decree or bill), which reportedly announced the procedure pf Female Genital Mutilation as "laudable practice that does honour to women"; and stating that it was, a religious duty as important as praying to Allah.
Sudan had a long history of Islamic conquest and repression. Islamic totalitarianism and barbarity continues to this day. Recently, Sudan was brutalized by the Saudi-backed Gen.Numeri's Islamic fascism. In 1992 a religious decree-fatwa-was issued that gave justification to the military onslaught against the non-Muslims. Islamic barbarism and genocide continues in Darfur to this day.
Indonesian Islamic army mass-murdered 200,000 East Timurian non-Muslims before East Timur got its independent. The country is known for its extreme religiosity, corruption, ethno-religious problems and Islamic extremism.
Pakistan, an experimental laboratory of Islam, had turned into a horror. Notwithstanding the hundreds of thousands of rapes, abductions and murders under the watchful eyes of the very Christian administration of the Holy Roman British Empire at the time of religious division of the Indian sub-continent in 1947 by the Christian British Empire, when half a million people were forced to migrate, Pakistan has never made any certain move towards civilization. Pakistan is a centre of Islamic fundamentalism, extremism and terrorism. Pakistan's very Islamic army invaded her province of East Pakistan in 1971, killing hundreds of thousands of Bengali Muslims and non-Muslims and raping half a million women ranging 9-69 years in age, in its attempt to create a half breed Pak-Bengal race which would be loyal to Islam and Pakistan. In 1974 Pakistan army invaded its province of Baluchistan resulting in similar calamities. In 1980 Islamist General Zia ul Haq introduced further islamization under the Saudi pressure for introduction of the medieval and tribal Islamic Shariah.. Along with the compulsory public prayers, there were brutal Islamic laws for the very natural sexual acts and for the presumed blasphemy: the repressive Hudood Ordinance and the infamous Blasphemy laws. Thousands of innocent women continue to suffer under these and other Islamic fascist laws for mere allegations. Raped women had been sent to gallows for the crime of being raped. (Islamic Shariah is the only system of law, which punishes the victims: Fatemollah). Pakistani state has proved to be a willing and sinister instrument of the evil Islamic mullah fascism and terrorism. Pakistan created the hated Afghan Taliban and many other such organizations in Afghanistan. Similar organizations continue to flourish in Pakistan and try to create a totalitarian and fascist Islamic state. Despite all tall claims of fight against Islamic terrorism, the evil continues to flourish. Pakistan is undoubtedly a major source of supply for the Iraqi terrorism. Illicit drug trade continues with the blessings of the Islamic mullahs and the ISI (the Islamic Military Intelligence). There are Islamic prostitution centres in every Islamic city of the Islamic Pakistan where abducted and non-Muslim women are forced to suffer. The secular, liberal and rationalist intellectuals continue to suffer in Pakistan like the victims of the infamous Christian inquisition of medieval Europe. While the Christian churches burnt the heretics, Islamic mullahs get them indicted for Blasphemy.
Eternal vigilance is the price of civilization.
(to be continued)
#6 Posted by laddu on December 17, 2007 5:16:10 am
Even if she was "immoral" (whatever that means to a momeen mard), it does not give any one a right to kill!!!
#5 Posted by arjun8 on December 17, 2007 3:56:22 am
#4 Posted by aslam644 on December 17, 2007 3:37:16 am
Canadian social services and civil socirty groups should devise some plan of action so that similar tragedy should not happen again.
When they tried to do that in the UK, your paki buddies screamed islamophobia and said modern day UK was like nazi germany...
Canadian social services and civil socirty groups should devise some plan of action so that similar tragedy should not happen again.
When they tried to do that in the UK, your paki buddies screamed islamophobia and said modern day UK was like nazi germany...
#4 Posted by aslam644 on December 17, 2007 3:37:16 am
Tragic though it is, the death of aqsa should’t go in vain, Canadian social services and civil socirty groups should devise some plan of action so that similar tragedy should not happen again.
In the 80’s and 90’s in UK, honour killings and girls running away from home because of strict parents, arrange marriages, abusive husbands etc, were quite frequent.
Social workers, teachers and police were alerted of this problem, around a dozen hostels were built in the country to accommodate these girls. Police and social workers “snatch squad” were created who removed these girls from their “problem” parents and placed them in hostels with 24 hour security.
Canada has an advantage over UK in that most migrants there are educated and professional, therefore it is far easier for them to adjust to their new adopted land.
In the 80’s and 90’s in UK, honour killings and girls running away from home because of strict parents, arrange marriages, abusive husbands etc, were quite frequent.
Social workers, teachers and police were alerted of this problem, around a dozen hostels were built in the country to accommodate these girls. Police and social workers “snatch squad” were created who removed these girls from their “problem” parents and placed them in hostels with 24 hour security.
Canada has an advantage over UK in that most migrants there are educated and professional, therefore it is far easier for them to adjust to their new adopted land.
#3 Posted by arjun8 on December 17, 2007 2:33:08 am
Islam does not allow the killing of any person (Muslim or non-Muslim).
Oh enough of this BS already...Islam doesn't allow the killing of people? really? and yet you have muslims blowing stuff up and killing people all over the world...didn't they get allah's memo? did mo's e-mail on this go to the junk mail folder?
#2 Posted by ShoreSahib on December 17, 2007 12:10:29 am
Mr. Mir,
Where did you get this absurd idea that this was not a honor killing?
Perhaps you would like to enlighten us!
This murder is a direct result of the backward stone age thinking of some Pakistani Muslims living abroad. They want to live in western societies with their freedoms yet are almost draconian in the freedoms they afford their women.
This murder is a hate crime. Pure and simple. It is a crime committed by a seemingly powerless Pakistani male muslim against his daughter's assertion of independence. Pakistanis think that their children are their property.
I can just imagine the father saying,
"haramzadi, Teri yeh Majaal! Mein Tera Gala ghoont key qissa hi khatam kar doon ga".
Yes, it is also domestic violence. But it is an honor killing!
It matters not whether she refused to wear hijab, or whether she wanted to be with her boyfriend as some have suggested.
No act of personal self expression warrants murder.
A simple analogy to this murder is rape. A rapists does not rape because he wants to gain sexual gratification, but to dominate the victim through the most personal and intimate of ways.
Aqsa's father asserted his lack of power upon Aqsa by murdering her. The only way he knew how to gain control and dominance.
Where did you get this absurd idea that this was not a honor killing?
Perhaps you would like to enlighten us!
This murder is a direct result of the backward stone age thinking of some Pakistani Muslims living abroad. They want to live in western societies with their freedoms yet are almost draconian in the freedoms they afford their women.
This murder is a hate crime. Pure and simple. It is a crime committed by a seemingly powerless Pakistani male muslim against his daughter's assertion of independence. Pakistanis think that their children are their property.
I can just imagine the father saying,
"haramzadi, Teri yeh Majaal! Mein Tera Gala ghoont key qissa hi khatam kar doon ga".
Yes, it is also domestic violence. But it is an honor killing!
It matters not whether she refused to wear hijab, or whether she wanted to be with her boyfriend as some have suggested.
No act of personal self expression warrants murder.
A simple analogy to this murder is rape. A rapists does not rape because he wants to gain sexual gratification, but to dominate the victim through the most personal and intimate of ways.
Aqsa's father asserted his lack of power upon Aqsa by murdering her. The only way he knew how to gain control and dominance.
#1 Posted by ahmedmadani on December 17, 2007 12:03:00 am
Canada is strange country, too cold for people who have lived in warm sunfilled with warm air. It high time why people go crazy should be investigated by cadada govt and place blame on poor people or poor countries , also needs to have commission to stop oppression dark and brown people . Also venerable young women by crazy fathers , brothers and mothers and cousins etc should be made aware in case they should have protection against such extremist elements. Islam means submission, peace and why this tree Islam always gets bitter fruits in west ? West should look at oppression of brown people and provide same cultural millue for parents to live in like back home country and children can live there lives in modern faithless way. Again its canadaian problem and canda govt should feel shame why good hard working people kill children. Canadains should admit some thing is wrong and improve otherwise same will go.
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