The Real Issue Facing Pakistan

Re: # 179

Before you indulge yourself more in this self aggrandizing tripe, keep in mind that what Pavo had written 8-9 years ago has turned out to be true this many years later including the prediction of the face off between Napak fouj and people of Pakistan that we are witnessing today.

Although his nalaysis is sound and backed by undeniable evidence yet I will disagree with him that Pak Afghan border cannot be sealed. I think it can and it should be done as soon as possible. Not that it will make a dime of difference in the war of independence that is going on in Afghanistan against American occupation, but just as Americans are deafeated and pack to leave the horrible civil war that will follow in Afghanistan will most definitely spill over into Pakistan. When that day comes a wall with the state of the art surveilence system (paid of course by Americans with the money that they make through drug trade) would come in handy.

#138 Posted by pavocavalry

“5-Its a new assertion we are hearing that tribals from Pakistwn were fighting in Afghanistan.All major Afghan parties were Afghan based in manpower.I am living in Kabul for last four years and have had continuous interaction with many tribals since 1979.A Pashtun from Pakistan is instantly picked up by his dialect and even the way he dresses.”

Sir, you continue to disappoint me. Could someone please tell this Military genius how Guerrilla warfare is conducted? It is not love making that lips are sealed to the lips and the bods are enjoined in pleasure. The darks of the nights was the only thing common between the love making in Afghanistan and Guerrilla fighter descending from the Pakistani mountains.

They did not sweet talk the Russians and the afghan army before the Russians, to identify their accent and the dress code!

Need I say more?

Just an after thought! Can some one claim military opposition to the Taraki government was homegrown?

Hate this multiple posts but one more activity these tribes were involved in big time was called Hawala!
The Hawala trade in Pakistan was controlled by the Pathan tribesmen.

I remember once in Kohat, I jumped on a hawala trader who was trying to cheat a poor family out of their hard earned money from some where in the middle east. The interesting part is that I was invited for lunch by the same Hawala dealer. I got mad at him after the lunch!
Guess I was not a great guest!

#138 Posted by pavocavalry

I looked at all points 1, 2 are just hilarious.

Let me just deal with #3 first, you write:

“3-The writer states that settled areas were more anti British.Absolute nonsense.In First World War tribals led the anti British movement.Mahsuds of 130 Infantry bayoneted a British officer.Mir Mast Afridi defected with 14 Afridis to Germans in France and was awarded Iron Cross by Kaiser.After First World War Afridi and Mahsud rdruitment was severely reduced in Indian Army since they were regarded as disloyal.”

Sir, it is really hard for you to figure out political opposition and the military confrontation. If I follow your line of argument, I would assume that no one in India was anti British because they did not kill any one by deception. Or they did not defect to Germans. I admire the afridis who defected to Germany in the First World War but if their intention was to defect then why in the hell were they in France in the first place. These things are not called defections they are called desertions and the abandonment

You also forget the Khudia Khimatagars were actively anti British since the Khilafat Movement but I guess in your opinion they don’t qualify as anti British because they refused to kill people!

In fact, it was the KK or the Surkhposh of NWFP that I was referring to when I mentioned anti British agitation in the settled areas.

Sir, these same groups of people along with other nationalist in Pakistan including Sindhi, Balochi and Bengalis always protested against the army rule in Pakistan and they were the people who took the burnt of several army actions in Pakistan.

During all that time the tribes, the so called saviors of Islam were selling drugs or making ammo for the criminals who regularly stole items of value from Pakistan. Most of the tribal Maliks and the Khans were sitting with the army throughout that period.

These criminals have never supported people of Pakistan in any struggle and you think they are fighting for Islam?

I am just tired of responding to argument from kakol type Jihadi intellectuals who just don’t understand any basic thing about what political struggle is all about!

PS. I forgot to mention another Islamic activity that tribes were involved in and it is called Smuggling and the selling of the contraband in the army protected tribal areas!

I will respond to #5 soon.

#7 Husain Haqqani sometimes does write better than me but mostly he has an agenda and I don’t!

tahmed writes "masadi: and one more thing. musharraf needs to pay his peons more to switch the blame to the US elite and absolve him - mush pays peanuts, and so all he gets is losers (as described below) like you"

Make up your mind, am I in the employ of the US elite or Musharraf, since you have in a Freudian slip associated them- and they surely are associated, joined at the hip, let us take your word for it. The only thing wrong with it is that I am neither in the employ of the US elite nor their peon Musharraf. I earn an honest day's living teaching sociology to students whose collective fees amount to several times what the university pays me. Musharraf tries to hide his assocition with the US elite but it comes out time and again, in quite obvious form, as it did with Negroponte's visit, and the past midnight phone calls, and independant visits to other military generals... you don't fool anyone Tahmed, your "gods" the ones your worship are neck deep as causation factors in our people's misery...

Tahmed writes "what is a masadi? a wage slave to the same "US elite" (by his own admission) hypocrite (as he has conclusively demonstrated three times over on the IK board)."

Sorry had to return to respond to this BS. As usual the spineless poster can only come up with Ad Hominem to counter my posts and even his Ad Hominem are invented lies.

One of my places of employment in Pakistan about which he is alluding is a private university, that receives some funds from US Aid. My salary has nothing to do with that funding, it has everything to do with teaching the students sociology and related concepts regarding how the US elite are robbing the world blind and holding it hostage using carrots like AID, many times over which is then recycled back to the West in terms of lucrative contracts and sweetheart deals and other BS.

Now, none of them puts me in the employ of the US elite. Regarding the IK board, as usual Tahmed put his tail between his legs and ran off, you all be the judge.

#139 Posted by pavocavalry

Btw, Quoted below is what I wrote in the article above regarding the US and the Pak army cutting off the supply lines of the tribes. I was not talking about the Taliban. You obviously missed the point. Still my response in #173 stands!

“How hard it is to cut off their support lines when both the Pak army and the US army control the immediate geographical areas surrounding the tribal belt?”

Cutting off tribal support lines is different than cutting off the Taliban’s support lines. True, those lines are often hard to separate. Still, my argument was about the tribes and NOT the Taliban!

#139 Posted by pavocavalry

“The assertion is that Pakistan Army and USA can easily cut the taliban Line of communication is also incorrect.
1-The USA has less than 10,000 active troops in Afghanistan able to act as interdictors.20,000 are committed in admin,line duties etc.Of the 1900 KM frontier in which Talibans are active just 300 KM is actively cordoned by Pakistan Army.
2-The major Taliban area of ops Helmand and Kandahar which is more than 600 kilometres long has no Pakistan Army troops.”

And you are supposed to be an army historian, an expert in strategies for defense and offense, and the one who can argue to favor “the defense of east lies in the west”.

I am none of the above. Military stories bore me to death, Clausewitz and a Chinese( whose name I forget now) sometime do make some sense to me. I have no claim over any military history or military strategies but could you please just answer one question for me:

Why do you think only army troops or human bodies can monitor a border? Has it occurred to you that in this 21st century there are multiple means to monitor an area as big as 1900 km or may be more?

I am sorry you continuously disappoint me with your less than intelligent arguments.

Now would you please tell me: could the Taliban use all of 1900 KM or they use some points which they can easily maneuver given their chronicle lack of transportation in moving people across the borders?

So 600 KM has no Pakistan troops. Hard to believe but let me agree with you here. Have you heard of the US, NATO and the afghan armies in Afghanistan and could you please tell me how many of those troops monitor that 600 KM border and how much of that 600 KM really provides the terrain support for the Islamic Jihadis?

Have you had a chance to look at the topology and the terrain of that area, if not physically, via the satellite? How many points would you deem the Taliban can use for crossing over in to Afghanistan and how dumb are the NATO/US and the afghan command in Afghanistan to not figure out this simple thing and pinpoint the crossing routes with accuracy?

#156 hamidm: the US and China and the rest of the world will perhaps find a balance on environmental issues in due course, as you say with touching confidence. but - so will the world find a solution for the mullah nutjobs.


So - if (per above) the same excuse you gave for not ranting about the environment applies equally to the mullah, then you cant rant about one and not the other. admit it - the fact is that mullahs and even their tinpot handlers are a joke compared to the real problems of rising seas and unchecked nanotechnologies. and you would rather deal with the jokes on chowk than with the real problems.

#141 Posted by pavocavalry

“The USA aims at instilling docility timidity and meekness in the Islamic world ! Waziristan is one decisive testing area in this exercise !”

Major Amin,
You are one prime example of what the low level Army officers’ mindset is and that is one big reason for me to argue here that the Pak army in toto needs a major overhaul.

Can you translate docility, timidity and meekness in the Islamic world in political terms?

Am I supposed to laugh at the joke that “waziristan is one decisive testing area in this exercise”? Go ahead and show me some reasons behind your statement so that I can take them out one by one!

Waziristan before the afghan crisis was a known drugs manufacturing area. The tribes excelled in stealing cars and supplying Hashish to the rest of Pakistan. What in your opinion was Islamic about that?

Wazirstan is nothing more than a mustard seed when we start counting problems all over the world. Nor are the tribes pal bearers of Islam. So forget that Wazirstan is some decisive testing area. It is an area which is manipulated by both the US and Pakistan to continue that area as one raison d'etre for international intervention in that region.

One of the reason the tribes are upset about the set up in Afghanistan is that now the Northern Alliance of Hamid karzai controls the drug trade in Afghanistan and not the Pakistani tribesmen.

Tribes don’t have the political or the military muscle to change anything there. They will continue to remain a pawn of the Pak army.

masadi: and one more thing. musharraf needs to pay his peons more to switch the blame to the US elite and absolve him - mush pays peanuts, and so all he gets is losers (as described below) like you.

what is a masadi? a wage slave to the same "US elite" (by his own admission) hypocrite (as he has conclusively demonstrated three times over on the IK board). The more you try to apply this adjectives to others, the more you prove what measly little hypocrite you are!! Cheers. :-)

Now as I go do other stuff and say"later" to you all, tahmed and his chaprasee can busy themselves by redflagging my posts, which will probably result in my suspension for a day or two, so later everyone....

kulharee writes "Your modus operandi is nothing but the hatred of the west. "

Nonsense, you don't have what it takes to reply to my posts that is why you find it so hard to put together a sensible post. Everyone here knows the vast gap between our intellectual levels by the posts we have made.

Regarding hatred of the west, that is more BS. Those who don't worship the West do no necessarily hate it. My hatred is reserved for those elite that have enslaved both the West and the East, you know it but deliberately hide it for two reasons, one because it is the truth and you are afraid of the truth and two, you don't have the intellectual level required to counter what I say....

Masadi the reason my post didn’t make any sense was because I was pretending to be imitating you. Your posts do not make any sense. Your modus operandi is nothing but the hatred of the west.

Kulharee, you need to possess half a brain to reword something, what you wrote makes absolutely zero sense, and does not apply either to the Pakistan case or the case of the global political economy

Similarly you write "Masadi, what you wrote in Yaseer’s article was beyond despicable, no one expect any thing better from you anyway, but that was really cheap. I wish your dad had lived a bit longer to teach you some manners. "


Nothing I wrote was "dispicable or beyond", what I wrote showed sincerity and class. I wrote explicitly that I was putting aside my differences with him to offer him my condolences and I agreed with his father's views on ZAB. He took that opportunity, the snake that he is, to attack me for no reason and suggest that I lacked "humanity". I will not stand for that, mourning or no mourning...