Rafi Aamer December 28, 2007
#22 Posted by zeemax on December 28, 2007 11:20:22 pm
Reproduced here from the other board to continue the discussion because that board is almost Allah ko Pyara!
The plot thickens.
GEO has just broadcast a denial by Baitullah Mehsood saying they had no enmity with Benazir because she was not in the Government and had done nothing against the Taliban. He has also said they wouldn't attack a woman anyway. The statement was conveyed by Maulvi Umar, the head of the newly founded joint Tehreek-e-Taliban of Pakistan.
Personally, taking everything into account i.e. the Govt explanation, the way Taliban operate, the pattern of attacks carried out and admitted to by Pakistani Taliban so far since Jamia Hafsa (concentrated solely on security services), as well as circumstantial evidence surrounding the event, my conclusion would be it was carried out by one of the Jihadi groups other than Taliban.
Most likely Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, and next likely Lashkar-e-Tayyaba.
The plot thickens.
GEO has just broadcast a denial by Baitullah Mehsood saying they had no enmity with Benazir because she was not in the Government and had done nothing against the Taliban. He has also said they wouldn't attack a woman anyway. The statement was conveyed by Maulvi Umar, the head of the newly founded joint Tehreek-e-Taliban of Pakistan.
Personally, taking everything into account i.e. the Govt explanation, the way Taliban operate, the pattern of attacks carried out and admitted to by Pakistani Taliban so far since Jamia Hafsa (concentrated solely on security services), as well as circumstantial evidence surrounding the event, my conclusion would be it was carried out by one of the Jihadi groups other than Taliban.
Most likely Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, and next likely Lashkar-e-Tayyaba.
#21 Posted by sara.asad on December 28, 2007 9:47:23 pm
..nothin u said can b denied in terms ov idealism Mr. Rafi Aamer.yah democracy..u once served bt democracy u never stand for.z democracy a eletion campaigne..u stood for once?
Y don you start ya own party n show the world how,with all the politicians with vested interests,Ppl with shainin hopes,with uncle sam standin with sharp watch on,0% treasury 55% debt servicing and 45% defence budgt can b served best on the helm ov affairs.
..don forget to temme wn ya came off wd fling colours.
n i wud welcum an version ov ya Democracy.
.
.Wat do ya say bout democracy BTW?
By the Way in which party you r for
"SERVICE OF DEMOCRACY" these days?
Y don you start ya own party n show the world how,with all the politicians with vested interests,Ppl with shainin hopes,with uncle sam standin with sharp watch on,0% treasury 55% debt servicing and 45% defence budgt can b served best on the helm ov affairs.
..don forget to temme wn ya came off wd fling colours.
n i wud welcum an version ov ya Democracy.
.
.Wat do ya say bout democracy BTW?
By the Way in which party you r for
"SERVICE OF DEMOCRACY" these days?
#20 Posted by SR on December 28, 2007 9:43:07 pm
Re: # 17 rafi aamer ["...SR: Please tell me that you are not taking this version without a grain of salt. If you are, I have a bridge that I am selling for a very reasonable price. Let me know if you are interested..."]
Reality can be stranger than fiction.
I have spoken to the surgeon at the hospital where she was taken (he's a former classmate), he did not attended her himself, but he believes that she might have been saved had there been a trained neurosurgery team on hand immediately. She was unconscious and teetering at the edge of life when she was brought in and precious time had been lost already. The general surgeon who handled her case did not have extensive experience in head trauma management as would a neurosurgeon. She had a massive sub-dural hematoma which the surgeon on duty tried to relieve with a burr hole, but it was too little too late.
Also, curiously, mid-way to the hospital her vehicle stopped and two of her most trusted lieutenants transferred her into another private car and sped off to a different hospital then the one she would have been normally going to. This added an additional ten minutes to the driving time amid evening traffic. Why? On one knows.
These inconvenient pieces of news, of course, are not something that suit anyone's agenda, so they are ignored. Truth is unimportant when a more "suitable" narrative can pass for the truth. "Benazir Bhutto died due to inadequate medical facilities" just does not make good news copy, compared to "Champion of Freedom and Democracy Martyred by terrorists..." does it?
My surgeon friend (who by the way is a die hard PPP supporter) was very emphatic that there was a "depressed fracture of the skull" and there was "no exit wound" ... It is the "exit woulds" of a bullet that are the real tell-tale signs. X-rays revealed "no foreign body."
This is just the way it is. But the point is that this still is very much an assassination. She wouldn't have ducked (or thrown off due to the shock wave of the blast) had there not been an attempt on her life. So I don't understand why the resistence to accepting these facts. She was ASSASSINATED. Period. The cause of death was a depressed fracture of the skull, not a bullet or shrapnel.
The bullet wound reports earlier on WERE NOT coming from the attending surgeons but from "others" who had seen the blood spots on her injured body. Why emotions are high, imagination can take flight.
Right now some elements are causing disruptions in traffic by sneaking around and dropping off one or two burning tires on busy roads, which force the incompetent police to barricade the road that lead to traffic jams. All this gives the impression that law and order are breaking down because the TV comes and focuses on that particular spot, even though thirty minutes later its all clear. The TV plays along with it because only by stirring up mass anxiety can television (1) get viewers glued to the tube and (2) keep the advertisers paying good money. The rest is all hogwash.
...SR
Reality can be stranger than fiction.
I have spoken to the surgeon at the hospital where she was taken (he's a former classmate), he did not attended her himself, but he believes that she might have been saved had there been a trained neurosurgery team on hand immediately. She was unconscious and teetering at the edge of life when she was brought in and precious time had been lost already. The general surgeon who handled her case did not have extensive experience in head trauma management as would a neurosurgeon. She had a massive sub-dural hematoma which the surgeon on duty tried to relieve with a burr hole, but it was too little too late.
Also, curiously, mid-way to the hospital her vehicle stopped and two of her most trusted lieutenants transferred her into another private car and sped off to a different hospital then the one she would have been normally going to. This added an additional ten minutes to the driving time amid evening traffic. Why? On one knows.
These inconvenient pieces of news, of course, are not something that suit anyone's agenda, so they are ignored. Truth is unimportant when a more "suitable" narrative can pass for the truth. "Benazir Bhutto died due to inadequate medical facilities" just does not make good news copy, compared to "Champion of Freedom and Democracy Martyred by terrorists..." does it?
My surgeon friend (who by the way is a die hard PPP supporter) was very emphatic that there was a "depressed fracture of the skull" and there was "no exit wound" ... It is the "exit woulds" of a bullet that are the real tell-tale signs. X-rays revealed "no foreign body."
This is just the way it is. But the point is that this still is very much an assassination. She wouldn't have ducked (or thrown off due to the shock wave of the blast) had there not been an attempt on her life. So I don't understand why the resistence to accepting these facts. She was ASSASSINATED. Period. The cause of death was a depressed fracture of the skull, not a bullet or shrapnel.
The bullet wound reports earlier on WERE NOT coming from the attending surgeons but from "others" who had seen the blood spots on her injured body. Why emotions are high, imagination can take flight.
Right now some elements are causing disruptions in traffic by sneaking around and dropping off one or two burning tires on busy roads, which force the incompetent police to barricade the road that lead to traffic jams. All this gives the impression that law and order are breaking down because the TV comes and focuses on that particular spot, even though thirty minutes later its all clear. The TV plays along with it because only by stirring up mass anxiety can television (1) get viewers glued to the tube and (2) keep the advertisers paying good money. The rest is all hogwash.
...SR
#19 Posted by tahmed32 on December 28, 2007 8:02:24 pm
#16 The doctor who attended to Bhutto said she died of gunshot wounds yesterday. One went from the back of her neck and through the face.
Today, one of musharraf's minions says "no foreign body was found" (which would be technically true if the bullet went through the head) and claims she hit her face on the car due to the explosion. Why would musharraf bother to lie? For one, lies come easily to musharraf, as he has demonstrated over and over again last year. So, telling the truth for once may be too traumatic, and so the doctor was replaced by a retired military man offering his learned medical view. Plus some imagined benefit to the regime that these geniuses thought they would get by lying, no doubt.
Today, one of musharraf's minions says "no foreign body was found" (which would be technically true if the bullet went through the head) and claims she hit her face on the car due to the explosion. Why would musharraf bother to lie? For one, lies come easily to musharraf, as he has demonstrated over and over again last year. So, telling the truth for once may be too traumatic, and so the doctor was replaced by a retired military man offering his learned medical view. Plus some imagined benefit to the regime that these geniuses thought they would get by lying, no doubt.
#18 Posted by dullabhatti on December 28, 2007 7:50:31 pm
my uncle's gas station in down town Chicago has clerk window made of bullet proof glass. I don't think it costed that much but it has saved once the life of a student worker. I was wondering if BB was peeking out of the sunroof window all the time to wave at people, why did not someone think about putting a 24" x 24" x 24" little bullet proof shield over the sunroof window? that would have been one of the most effect yet least expensive enhancements to that expensive truck.
#17 Posted by rafi_aamer on December 28, 2007 7:12:04 pm
Re: # 16
SR: Please tell me that you are not taking this version without a grain of salt. If you are, I have a bridge that I am selling for a very reasonable price. Let me know if you are interested.
SR: Please tell me that you are not taking this version without a grain of salt. If you are, I have a bridge that I am selling for a very reasonable price. Let me know if you are interested.
#16 Posted by SR on December 28, 2007 6:54:34 pm
Sunroof, not bomb or bullets, killed Benazir Bhutto
ISLAMABAD, Dec 28 (AFP) - Benazir Bhutto was killed after smashing her head on her car's sunroof while trying to duck,.... “If she had not come out of the vehicle, she would have been unhurt, as all the other occupants of the vehicle did not receive any injuries,”....the post-mortem on Benazir Bhutto found her mortal wound came when she tried to duck after the bomber attacked. The bomber also apparently fired three times at her but missed, ....
When she ducked, she hit the lever of the sunroof of the car. “The lever struck near her right ear and fractured her skull,” .... “There was no bullet or metal shrapnel found in the injury ....
ISLAMABAD, Dec 28 (AFP) - Benazir Bhutto was killed after smashing her head on her car's sunroof while trying to duck,.... “If she had not come out of the vehicle, she would have been unhurt, as all the other occupants of the vehicle did not receive any injuries,”....the post-mortem on Benazir Bhutto found her mortal wound came when she tried to duck after the bomber attacked. The bomber also apparently fired three times at her but missed, ....
When she ducked, she hit the lever of the sunroof of the car. “The lever struck near her right ear and fractured her skull,” .... “There was no bullet or metal shrapnel found in the injury ....
#15 Posted by rafi_aamer on December 28, 2007 6:19:03 pm
Re: # 12
yusafkhan: I don't know about all but as far as I am concerned, you are absolutely right. For all the critics of Benazir Bhutto, including myself, the question of what drove her back to Pakistan, to an almost certain death, is worth investigating.
yusafkhan: I don't know about all but as far as I am concerned, you are absolutely right. For all the critics of Benazir Bhutto, including myself, the question of what drove her back to Pakistan, to an almost certain death, is worth investigating.
#14 Posted by Urstruly on December 28, 2007 6:12:18 pm
Re: # 13
You are right on all accounts, however, she has died at a very critical juncture in our national history. Today our society has been divided by a chasm so wide that from now on it has become impossible to build bridge or continue with the facade of hypocrisy that we have been living with since we were conquered by the East India company.
Today the society has been divided between the protectors of the old order of corruption, complacency, docility and oppression that East India company imposed on us and those who wish to bring Pakistan sovereignity, rule of law, and social justice. Unfortunately she belonged to the first group. She did not realize that times have changed immensely. Now anyone who compromises on the soveriegnty of Pakistan; anyone who commits crime against the people of pakistan; anyone who protects the old order would suffer nothing less than the capital punishment. Like it or not, call it whatever you will but it does not change the new ground reality.
Benazir signed her own death warrant when she:
1. Exclaimed her glee on the Islamabad school massacre where hundereds of innocent orphan school girls were mercilessly and extra-judicially executed in the way that not even children of enemy are made to suffer.
2. She promised that she would lead and allow foreign enemies to kill Pakistani citizens inside Pakistan thus violating the constitutional gurantees to citizens of Pakistan that she would have sworn to had she became Prime Minister (by a freak miracle of nature).
3. She promised to hand over one of the most respected and revered personality in Pakistan who has attained a stature no less than Quaid-e-Azam to a country that treats its POWS like dogs, tortures human beings violating all international laws and common human decency.
4. She was trying to legitimize political order established by a rogue army and a vicious dictator who have brought Pakistan on the verge of being a failed state at par with Somalia and Iraq.
And then she had the arrogance to stick her neck out...big mistake.
You are right on all accounts, however, she has died at a very critical juncture in our national history. Today our society has been divided by a chasm so wide that from now on it has become impossible to build bridge or continue with the facade of hypocrisy that we have been living with since we were conquered by the East India company.
Today the society has been divided between the protectors of the old order of corruption, complacency, docility and oppression that East India company imposed on us and those who wish to bring Pakistan sovereignity, rule of law, and social justice. Unfortunately she belonged to the first group. She did not realize that times have changed immensely. Now anyone who compromises on the soveriegnty of Pakistan; anyone who commits crime against the people of pakistan; anyone who protects the old order would suffer nothing less than the capital punishment. Like it or not, call it whatever you will but it does not change the new ground reality.
Benazir signed her own death warrant when she:
1. Exclaimed her glee on the Islamabad school massacre where hundereds of innocent orphan school girls were mercilessly and extra-judicially executed in the way that not even children of enemy are made to suffer.
2. She promised that she would lead and allow foreign enemies to kill Pakistani citizens inside Pakistan thus violating the constitutional gurantees to citizens of Pakistan that she would have sworn to had she became Prime Minister (by a freak miracle of nature).
3. She promised to hand over one of the most respected and revered personality in Pakistan who has attained a stature no less than Quaid-e-Azam to a country that treats its POWS like dogs, tortures human beings violating all international laws and common human decency.
4. She was trying to legitimize political order established by a rogue army and a vicious dictator who have brought Pakistan on the verge of being a failed state at par with Somalia and Iraq.
And then she had the arrogance to stick her neck out...big mistake.
#13 Posted by ahmedmadani on December 28, 2007 5:45:56 pm
Re: # 9 Ustruly... now she was corroupt etc but all successful politicians are like that. She was not good efficient or just ruler as people were sabotaging her all time for being woman. Now she is gone for ever why not remember good things about departed leader. At end what remains is her charisma and power to agitate people and and force military ruler and she brought him to knees. Ruler general said she will never be allowed to come, she used strong hands of usa to humilate army boss. You can see the standing above ordinary people. Good looks and that great attributes of great wealthy fudal manners and same time compassion for poor and her spirit moved. She was brought up along with Murtaza as stateman and politician by great zab. She had dignity and good american english and she gave answer calmly and with good american english and had great skills as debater. Zab always consulted her for adivice though. Mrs Gandhi was impressed by her great intelluct and told zab that one day she will rule pakistan. Now Arjun miyan gives little of her violent expression but they are just for consumption she wanted peace and friendship.
World has lost great opportunity as with soniya gandhi as defacto ruler of India and Hillari Clinton usa president and benzir PM of pakistan these good highclass, hibred ladies could have found good solution to kashmir and give and take solution as suggested by Romair but now it is difficult. Small window of opportunity is closed by passing away of mrs. Bhutto and future is bleak about Kashmir returning to Pakistan and satisfying aspirations of kashmiri and pakistani people.
This great loss to subcontinent
World has lost great opportunity as with soniya gandhi as defacto ruler of India and Hillari Clinton usa president and benzir PM of pakistan these good highclass, hibred ladies could have found good solution to kashmir and give and take solution as suggested by Romair but now it is difficult. Small window of opportunity is closed by passing away of mrs. Bhutto and future is bleak about Kashmir returning to Pakistan and satisfying aspirations of kashmiri and pakistani people.
This great loss to subcontinent
#12 Posted by yusafkhan on December 28, 2007 5:34:41 pm
I admire Benazir for her courage. I bet all of you would have been on the next flight out if your convoy had been bombed. Give her credit where its due.
#11 Posted by ahmedmadani on December 28, 2007 5:28:07 pm
Bravest of Brave and fairest of fair
Benzir lived and died as heroic romantic Princes.
Rest in Peace the queen of pakistani hearts
Benzir lived and died as heroic romantic Princes.
Rest in Peace the queen of pakistani hearts
#10 Posted by bbabu on December 28, 2007 5:23:27 pm
zeemax # 1
Why be anti-American ? Why not be pro-Pakistani ?
Why be anti-American ? Why not be pro-Pakistani ?
#9 Posted by Urstruly on December 28, 2007 4:52:29 pm
I was fooled by her once, when she came to Pakistan after the demise of Zia. I had high hopes that this foreign returned, highly educated leader would change what has been stagnent in Pakistan since the time I grew up as a kid and started to understand the world around me. I was in the procession for the whole 12-14 hours which took her from Stargate to Quaid's Moussouliam that day.
But soon after elections the disappointment began when PP terrorists started establishing torture cells around city in a bid to take back the control of the city from MQM terrorists. I have captured one such incident, that immensely effected me personally in a story that I wrote for Chowk many years ago;
WHEN PINKY BROKE MY HEART
http://www.chowk.com/articles/4941
#8 Posted by haideri on December 28, 2007 3:09:04 pm
Re: #5
Tahir,
To be accurate ...those arm-bands should've had 'Oh Alah Save me from Pakistani Wahabiz' embroidered over them instead!
haideri
Tahir,
To be accurate ...those arm-bands should've had 'Oh Alah Save me from Pakistani Wahabiz' embroidered over them instead!
haideri
#7 Posted by nasah on December 28, 2007 2:53:24 pm
"I am angry with this punk to call 54 years educated and foreign return and extremely accomplished person, extremely wealthy, fairest of fair and good looking , two time PM, first muslim PM in world , daughter of Lion of Sindh as "pinky"."(madani sahib)
you can say that about these punks again and again -- chay piddi aur chay piddi kay shorbay.
you can say that about these punks again and again -- chay piddi aur chay piddi kay shorbay.
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