Karamatullah K Ghori December 29, 2007
#27 Posted by ImranOKazmi on January 7, 2008 3:57:47 am
While I understand your pain, perhaps this will enlighten you on the REAL ROOTS of our troubles.
Love and peace.
Imran
Brig Tariq Jilani
Director, ISPR
Rawalpindi, Pakistan
Fax +9251 9271603
Subject: Telecon / Meeting with General [R] Pervez Musharaf
Dear Brig Jilani
You and the ISPR are well aware of my efforts to save and grow Pakistan vide seminars held for MNAs and politicians in 2006 and publicly available online at www.ahappyworld.info
Background
My efforts to stop smuggling of cell phones in Pakistan have yielded the country USD 1 bn vide CBRs SRO 391 in June 2001 supported by Mr Shaukat Aziz (who happens to be from the same IBA that taught me one thing “DISCIPLINE”), Dr Atta Ur Rehman, General [R] Khalid Basheer and the former Chairmen of CBR, Mr Riaz Malik and Mr Riaz Naqvi. I never asked the Government for even an acknowledgment of my efforts, while it is true that my focus on “governmental” affairs from 1999-2001 did cost me my job as my boss gave a damn to what the Government of Pakistan gained, he didn’t gain much during this time anyway, I survived and am Alhamdolillah, after 7 years back to the level I deserved as Regional Director for a European multinational covering 20 countries in GCC/MENA. All this time I silently continued my efforts to change the country’s policies to enhance foreign investments and law and order.
Past communication with the President (General Musharaf)
Back in June 2001 I wrote a letter to General Musharaf, then CE of Pakistan. To my surprise not only was my communication acknowledged I was invited by a Colonel Kamran Dy MS to CE to visit the “CE” house, now the President house, behind the Secretariat, where we had an in depth discussion. The core idea I proposed was to involve the Army in re establishing law and order in Pakistan besides many other ideas that are on record at the President House. Col Kamran informed me that this idea was discussed by the Core Commanders and in view of foreign pressure (remember this is pre 9/11) we couldn’t do that, moreover the Army’s role is limited to:
1. Give an “injection” to civil institutions
2. Exit once they are “fixed”
I disagreed with Col Kamran on this strategy and openly told him that not only is this incorrect, it will never happen, and when your core commanders DO realize this is wrong CHANGE the strategy. I WISH I was wrong then though time has proved me right.
Current Situation
Law and order
7 years down the road, corruption is rampant in Pakistan-the law and order system is NON EXISTENT, the Judges we have, never gave justice to the poor, the police is an exploited arm of the politicians and administration. Bottom line our PRESIDENT himself does NOT trust this system, hence his demolition of the judiciary, Benazir died due this gap, the PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN ARE FED UP WITH THIS LAWLESS STATE THAT YOU CALL “PAKISTAN” they are dying or moving out of the country, they face inflation beyond logic and have to fight to survive at all levels. YET I SALUTE PAKISTANIS living in Pakistan for their persistence.
Foreign relations/Media
From Tasleema Naseem, Brig Cheema and so many other jokers who played havoc with our image, not to mention the obvious: THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS DEAD AGAINST GENERAL MUSHARAF for their reasons (watch Syriana and JFK to get a better idea strategic and tactical actions in the region and priorities) – the recent press conference Gen Musharaf had, was he not able to grasp the animosity and bitterness in the questions? Who was funding GEO? Or the others, one must be stupid with a capital “S” to say “PPP or Nawaz” – there’s a lot more, and deeper into it as described above. Moreover, the TERRORISM card has been way too overplayed by Gen Musharaf and foreign powers have NO FAITH IN HIS ABILITY TO TACKLE THAT ISSUE. In my view they are partly correct in this regard as I will explain in the “WHAT MUST BE DONE” section later
STATUS QUO: What is going to happen STEP BY STEP
1. IF General Musharaf survives assassination, he is 95% sure, by my book, to be deposed as President in a timeframe of within 180 days from now.
2. Interim government will hold polls in 90 days. Nawaz Sharif will be allowed to contest.
3. Elected “LOOTERS” from any party will take office, PPP or PML (N)
4. Phase “x” of corruption, lawlessness and malpractices will re-start in Pakistan, that was “controlled” to some extent in Musharaf era
5. The country will slide to oblivion
6. NO OTHER ARMY GENERAL WILL HAVE THE GUTS TO ENTER POLITICS ONCE MUSHARAF EXITS BY FORCE OR BY CHOICE.
7. The fate of the people of Pakistan (except “party” workers) will be sealed: SIMPLE, LEAVE PAKISTAN IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE
WHAT MUST BE DONE IMMEDIATELY BY GENERAL MUSHARAF
Put law and order on track
1. Realize and accept that the Army has TWO ROLES:
a. External defense: that you already excel in
b. Internal defense: that is currently with the “police” and “judiciary”
i. As the QURAN says Al RASHI WAL MURTASHI FI NARE JAHANAM i.e. Bribe giver and taker goes to HELL. YOU CANNOT CHANGE OR REFORM THEM (your judges and policemen). PERIOD. You triple their salaries they will STILL be corrupt and abuse powers.
ii. We need a SHORT TERM ALTERNATE SYSTEM during which time we refresh the force and judiciary
iii. This task can ONLY be done by either enforcing APC (Army Penal Code) via serving or RETIRED army personnel
iv. The benefits are obvious, the ARMY is the ONLY institution in the country which follows its CHAIN OF COMMAND DITTO, and there is LEAST corruption in the army compared to the rest (excluding supplies and all, that too at senior levels)
v. Look at the retired sepoys from the Army, they work as private sector SECURITY GUARDS for Rs 3200 per month WITHOUT CORRUPTION, their tummies are intact, they come to duty in ironed uniform ON TIME, they do NOT abuse authority, they FOLLOW their management.
vi. Reality is 80% of EX ARMY PERSONNEL ARE MIS FITS IN PAKISTAN, they don’t belong in this corrupt environment from the disciplined environment they came from. LET THEM ENFORCE LAW AND ORDER IN THE SHORT RUN LATER RECRUIT PEOPLE FROM CIVIL LIFE ON THE SAME PATTERN AS ARMY DOES
vii. Get army judges, QUICKLY modify APC to adjust to LAW NEEDS OF TODAY, REMEMBER our lawyers and judges are following antiquated systems and processes that the BRITISH used to RULE OVER SLAVES (Contract Act of 1872 and Companies Ordinance of 1935 renamed o 1984). Our intellectual think tanks can study models of excellence in Dubai and elsewhere and change laws to deliver SPEEDY JUSTICE
viii. Free the innocent inmates in jail cells, picked up for personal animosity or plainly a woman raped and held for Hudood! Raped further by policemen, poor serfs of landlords and mafia rotting away for no crime, even CHILDREN!
ix. DIVIDE ARMY INTO TWO PARTS, EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL, both report to COAS as of now.
x. General Musharaf: YOU CANNOT SHOW YOUR FACE IN THE OTHER WORLD IF YOU DENY YOUR PEOPLE WHO TRUSTED YOU FOR 9 YEARS NOT EVEN THE BASIC RIGHT OF LAW AND JUSTICE AS OUTLINED ABOVE
Put “Extremism” back on track
I do NOT blame the “WEST” Uncle “Bush” and Uncle “Brown/Blair” for their mistaken policies to handle terrorism, they DON’T UNDERSTAND ISLAM or how this WAR is working internally, YOU DO AT LEAST, why don’t you educate them that:
1. This is an IDEOLOGICAL war waged on the free world by Al Qaeda etc you CANNOT defeat it with cannons, for every 1 person you shoot, 10 more will be born, and INCREASINGLY from the educated class, not just the “Taliban”. CASE IN POINT, London bombing was done by INDIAN DOCTORS that UK cannot reconcile with until now (how come people born and bred and working in UK became “terrorists”?).
2. TO FIGHT THIS WAR, download and read my action plan on www.ahappyworld.info
3. Simply stated:
a. WE MUST IMMEDIATELY STOP THE FIGHT BY FORCE
b. We must get IMAM E KAABA and relevant religious icons to VISIT these areas and go live on air spreading REAL message of Islam of love and peace, General Musharaf doing it is not credible or enough we need role models these people believe in
c. Tell America and Europe straight “WAR ON TERROR IS A WAR ON IDEOLOGY OF MISUNDERSTOOD ISLAM, IT CANNOT BE FOUGHT OR WON BY FORCE AS OF RIGHT NOW” at they same time tell the Western media to START HIGHLIGHTING GOOD THINGS AND PRACTICES IN ISLAM that will soothe the pain on BOTH sides.
4. General Musharaf: You need to get HANDS ON to solve these problems, saying “GOVT IS DOING THIS AND THAT FOR A REASON” WITHOUT GOING INTO DEPTH AND SOLVING IT (like you told foreign journalists when they asked why they cant go to rural areas AFTER you INSTRUCTED them to “GO TO RURAL AREAS TO FIND WHAT PAKISTANIS THINK”, Sir! YOU MUST INVOLVE YOURSELF IN INTERNAL AFFAIRS BEYOND THE OBVIOUS.
5. Islam’s message is of peace and love, OPEN PAKISTAN’S BORDERS to EVERYONE, just charge a HEFTY VISA FEE
a. USD 1000 to visit Pakistan
b. USD 50000 to become a permanent resident of Pakistan
6. ACCEPT ISRAEL, all the Muslim TALK Pakistanis talk about is CRAP. Give visas to Jews and Christians. THAT IS THE WAY TO FIGHT INTERNAL TERRORISM tell your people loud and clear that Islam propagates the message of love, we are LUCKY to be born Muslims hence our SYMPATHIES with NON MUSLIMS who DON’T KNOW THE REAL MESSAGE and through our CONDUCT, LOVE and GOOD BEHAVIOUR alone can we influence them.
I hope to have an audience with the President on phone or in person to apprise him of the situation and the actions he must take immediately.
Pakistan Zindabad!
Regards
Imran Owais Kazmi
Chief Thinking Officer, Strategy2Action
GSM: +971 50 5849562/ +971 55 8094119
www.crscube.com
www.ahappyworld.info
Love and peace.
Imran
Brig Tariq Jilani
Director, ISPR
Rawalpindi, Pakistan
Fax +9251 9271603
Subject: Telecon / Meeting with General [R] Pervez Musharaf
Dear Brig Jilani
You and the ISPR are well aware of my efforts to save and grow Pakistan vide seminars held for MNAs and politicians in 2006 and publicly available online at www.ahappyworld.info
Background
My efforts to stop smuggling of cell phones in Pakistan have yielded the country USD 1 bn vide CBRs SRO 391 in June 2001 supported by Mr Shaukat Aziz (who happens to be from the same IBA that taught me one thing “DISCIPLINE”), Dr Atta Ur Rehman, General [R] Khalid Basheer and the former Chairmen of CBR, Mr Riaz Malik and Mr Riaz Naqvi. I never asked the Government for even an acknowledgment of my efforts, while it is true that my focus on “governmental” affairs from 1999-2001 did cost me my job as my boss gave a damn to what the Government of Pakistan gained, he didn’t gain much during this time anyway, I survived and am Alhamdolillah, after 7 years back to the level I deserved as Regional Director for a European multinational covering 20 countries in GCC/MENA. All this time I silently continued my efforts to change the country’s policies to enhance foreign investments and law and order.
Past communication with the President (General Musharaf)
Back in June 2001 I wrote a letter to General Musharaf, then CE of Pakistan. To my surprise not only was my communication acknowledged I was invited by a Colonel Kamran Dy MS to CE to visit the “CE” house, now the President house, behind the Secretariat, where we had an in depth discussion. The core idea I proposed was to involve the Army in re establishing law and order in Pakistan besides many other ideas that are on record at the President House. Col Kamran informed me that this idea was discussed by the Core Commanders and in view of foreign pressure (remember this is pre 9/11) we couldn’t do that, moreover the Army’s role is limited to:
1. Give an “injection” to civil institutions
2. Exit once they are “fixed”
I disagreed with Col Kamran on this strategy and openly told him that not only is this incorrect, it will never happen, and when your core commanders DO realize this is wrong CHANGE the strategy. I WISH I was wrong then though time has proved me right.
Current Situation
Law and order
7 years down the road, corruption is rampant in Pakistan-the law and order system is NON EXISTENT, the Judges we have, never gave justice to the poor, the police is an exploited arm of the politicians and administration. Bottom line our PRESIDENT himself does NOT trust this system, hence his demolition of the judiciary, Benazir died due this gap, the PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN ARE FED UP WITH THIS LAWLESS STATE THAT YOU CALL “PAKISTAN” they are dying or moving out of the country, they face inflation beyond logic and have to fight to survive at all levels. YET I SALUTE PAKISTANIS living in Pakistan for their persistence.
Foreign relations/Media
From Tasleema Naseem, Brig Cheema and so many other jokers who played havoc with our image, not to mention the obvious: THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS DEAD AGAINST GENERAL MUSHARAF for their reasons (watch Syriana and JFK to get a better idea strategic and tactical actions in the region and priorities) – the recent press conference Gen Musharaf had, was he not able to grasp the animosity and bitterness in the questions? Who was funding GEO? Or the others, one must be stupid with a capital “S” to say “PPP or Nawaz” – there’s a lot more, and deeper into it as described above. Moreover, the TERRORISM card has been way too overplayed by Gen Musharaf and foreign powers have NO FAITH IN HIS ABILITY TO TACKLE THAT ISSUE. In my view they are partly correct in this regard as I will explain in the “WHAT MUST BE DONE” section later
STATUS QUO: What is going to happen STEP BY STEP
1. IF General Musharaf survives assassination, he is 95% sure, by my book, to be deposed as President in a timeframe of within 180 days from now.
2. Interim government will hold polls in 90 days. Nawaz Sharif will be allowed to contest.
3. Elected “LOOTERS” from any party will take office, PPP or PML (N)
4. Phase “x” of corruption, lawlessness and malpractices will re-start in Pakistan, that was “controlled” to some extent in Musharaf era
5. The country will slide to oblivion
6. NO OTHER ARMY GENERAL WILL HAVE THE GUTS TO ENTER POLITICS ONCE MUSHARAF EXITS BY FORCE OR BY CHOICE.
7. The fate of the people of Pakistan (except “party” workers) will be sealed: SIMPLE, LEAVE PAKISTAN IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE
WHAT MUST BE DONE IMMEDIATELY BY GENERAL MUSHARAF
Put law and order on track
1. Realize and accept that the Army has TWO ROLES:
a. External defense: that you already excel in
b. Internal defense: that is currently with the “police” and “judiciary”
i. As the QURAN says Al RASHI WAL MURTASHI FI NARE JAHANAM i.e. Bribe giver and taker goes to HELL. YOU CANNOT CHANGE OR REFORM THEM (your judges and policemen). PERIOD. You triple their salaries they will STILL be corrupt and abuse powers.
ii. We need a SHORT TERM ALTERNATE SYSTEM during which time we refresh the force and judiciary
iii. This task can ONLY be done by either enforcing APC (Army Penal Code) via serving or RETIRED army personnel
iv. The benefits are obvious, the ARMY is the ONLY institution in the country which follows its CHAIN OF COMMAND DITTO, and there is LEAST corruption in the army compared to the rest (excluding supplies and all, that too at senior levels)
v. Look at the retired sepoys from the Army, they work as private sector SECURITY GUARDS for Rs 3200 per month WITHOUT CORRUPTION, their tummies are intact, they come to duty in ironed uniform ON TIME, they do NOT abuse authority, they FOLLOW their management.
vi. Reality is 80% of EX ARMY PERSONNEL ARE MIS FITS IN PAKISTAN, they don’t belong in this corrupt environment from the disciplined environment they came from. LET THEM ENFORCE LAW AND ORDER IN THE SHORT RUN LATER RECRUIT PEOPLE FROM CIVIL LIFE ON THE SAME PATTERN AS ARMY DOES
vii. Get army judges, QUICKLY modify APC to adjust to LAW NEEDS OF TODAY, REMEMBER our lawyers and judges are following antiquated systems and processes that the BRITISH used to RULE OVER SLAVES (Contract Act of 1872 and Companies Ordinance of 1935 renamed o 1984). Our intellectual think tanks can study models of excellence in Dubai and elsewhere and change laws to deliver SPEEDY JUSTICE
viii. Free the innocent inmates in jail cells, picked up for personal animosity or plainly a woman raped and held for Hudood! Raped further by policemen, poor serfs of landlords and mafia rotting away for no crime, even CHILDREN!
ix. DIVIDE ARMY INTO TWO PARTS, EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL, both report to COAS as of now.
x. General Musharaf: YOU CANNOT SHOW YOUR FACE IN THE OTHER WORLD IF YOU DENY YOUR PEOPLE WHO TRUSTED YOU FOR 9 YEARS NOT EVEN THE BASIC RIGHT OF LAW AND JUSTICE AS OUTLINED ABOVE
Put “Extremism” back on track
I do NOT blame the “WEST” Uncle “Bush” and Uncle “Brown/Blair” for their mistaken policies to handle terrorism, they DON’T UNDERSTAND ISLAM or how this WAR is working internally, YOU DO AT LEAST, why don’t you educate them that:
1. This is an IDEOLOGICAL war waged on the free world by Al Qaeda etc you CANNOT defeat it with cannons, for every 1 person you shoot, 10 more will be born, and INCREASINGLY from the educated class, not just the “Taliban”. CASE IN POINT, London bombing was done by INDIAN DOCTORS that UK cannot reconcile with until now (how come people born and bred and working in UK became “terrorists”?).
2. TO FIGHT THIS WAR, download and read my action plan on www.ahappyworld.info
3. Simply stated:
a. WE MUST IMMEDIATELY STOP THE FIGHT BY FORCE
b. We must get IMAM E KAABA and relevant religious icons to VISIT these areas and go live on air spreading REAL message of Islam of love and peace, General Musharaf doing it is not credible or enough we need role models these people believe in
c. Tell America and Europe straight “WAR ON TERROR IS A WAR ON IDEOLOGY OF MISUNDERSTOOD ISLAM, IT CANNOT BE FOUGHT OR WON BY FORCE AS OF RIGHT NOW” at they same time tell the Western media to START HIGHLIGHTING GOOD THINGS AND PRACTICES IN ISLAM that will soothe the pain on BOTH sides.
4. General Musharaf: You need to get HANDS ON to solve these problems, saying “GOVT IS DOING THIS AND THAT FOR A REASON” WITHOUT GOING INTO DEPTH AND SOLVING IT (like you told foreign journalists when they asked why they cant go to rural areas AFTER you INSTRUCTED them to “GO TO RURAL AREAS TO FIND WHAT PAKISTANIS THINK”, Sir! YOU MUST INVOLVE YOURSELF IN INTERNAL AFFAIRS BEYOND THE OBVIOUS.
5. Islam’s message is of peace and love, OPEN PAKISTAN’S BORDERS to EVERYONE, just charge a HEFTY VISA FEE
a. USD 1000 to visit Pakistan
b. USD 50000 to become a permanent resident of Pakistan
6. ACCEPT ISRAEL, all the Muslim TALK Pakistanis talk about is CRAP. Give visas to Jews and Christians. THAT IS THE WAY TO FIGHT INTERNAL TERRORISM tell your people loud and clear that Islam propagates the message of love, we are LUCKY to be born Muslims hence our SYMPATHIES with NON MUSLIMS who DON’T KNOW THE REAL MESSAGE and through our CONDUCT, LOVE and GOOD BEHAVIOUR alone can we influence them.
I hope to have an audience with the President on phone or in person to apprise him of the situation and the actions he must take immediately.
Pakistan Zindabad!
Regards
Imran Owais Kazmi
Chief Thinking Officer, Strategy2Action
GSM: +971 50 5849562/ +971 55 8094119
www.crscube.com
www.ahappyworld.info
#26 Posted by Ras on January 2, 2008 8:39:24 pm
Salim_Chauhan Sahib,
Either you are the stupidest "Mohajir" to walk this planet,
or a plant of some kind (from which side of
the border I cannot but wonder) but let me assure you
as one "Mohajir" to another that the murder of
Benazir Bhutto was not to your benefit.
There are 250,000 to 300,000 stranded Pakistanis
or "Biharis" waiting in Bangladesh who would love to
be home in Pakistan. If "your people" cannot show even a
minimum amount of gratitude to the Sindhi people who
let us settle in their land then there is little I can
say about their future or yours.
I am glad that my old friend "Nusrat Rizvi" from the
newsgroups is not here but you are his reincarnation.
He did not have a day job either just like you.
Now please be kind enough to take your head out of the
loaded hookah and/or cut back on the bong hits.
Shukriah
Ras
Either you are the stupidest "Mohajir" to walk this planet,
or a plant of some kind (from which side of
the border I cannot but wonder) but let me assure you
as one "Mohajir" to another that the murder of
Benazir Bhutto was not to your benefit.
There are 250,000 to 300,000 stranded Pakistanis
or "Biharis" waiting in Bangladesh who would love to
be home in Pakistan. If "your people" cannot show even a
minimum amount of gratitude to the Sindhi people who
let us settle in their land then there is little I can
say about their future or yours.
I am glad that my old friend "Nusrat Rizvi" from the
newsgroups is not here but you are his reincarnation.
He did not have a day job either just like you.
Now please be kind enough to take your head out of the
loaded hookah and/or cut back on the bong hits.
Shukriah
Ras
#25 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on January 1, 2008 5:24:09 pm
{"Benazir’s Murder: Who Killed Her?"}
Ghori Sahib,
Who gives a $hit? After the way her PPP goons behaved, following her sad demise, in the indiscriminate murders of innocents and wanton destruction of property, I hope she and all her supporters rot in hell. :(
Ghori Sahib,
Who gives a $hit? After the way her PPP goons behaved, following her sad demise, in the indiscriminate murders of innocents and wanton destruction of property, I hope she and all her supporters rot in hell. :(
#24 Posted by Ras on January 1, 2008 11:16:49 am
Ghori Sahib,
Thanks for this fine article.
You are right on many counts here except:
"We may never know who killed her"
I just hope that the Bast_rds that did, die a dog's death.
This was a direct attack on the country of Pakistan,
specifically its federation. This assassination cannot
go unresolved.
Her killers have to be found or else
"Dama Dum Mast Qalandar" is not too far away. They will
strike again, and again till the .........
Thanks for this fine article.
You are right on many counts here except:
"We may never know who killed her"
I just hope that the Bast_rds that did, die a dog's death.
This was a direct attack on the country of Pakistan,
specifically its federation. This assassination cannot
go unresolved.
Her killers have to be found or else
"Dama Dum Mast Qalandar" is not too far away. They will
strike again, and again till the .........
#23 Posted by nature_lover on January 1, 2008 1:56:26 am
Great thought provoking article written by Mr Ghori..
I also appreciate very intelligent analysis written by interactors especially the reconstructive analysis represented by Pavocavalry..
What makes me suspecious is that why they hosed down the crime scene...and why Army men of the ministry of interior made up a fake story...??
Today's daily the News international published a report in which US experts suggested that by keeping in view the damage resulted to BB's brain..a bullet from high powered gun might have killed her..it says:
US experts criticise Benazir’s post-mortem
Tuesday, January 01, 2008
By Lawrence K. Altman
Leading American experts in forensic pathology this weekend deplored the failure of Pakistani officials to order an autopsy of Benazir Bhutto, saying that the standard medical procedure was a crucial part of any credible investigation of a murder.
Exhuming the body of Ms. Bhutto, 54, a former prime minister who was killed Thursday at a political rally, could still be extremely useful in determining more precisely whether she was shot, hit by shrapnel from a suicide bomb or, less likely, died from striking her head against an object in the vehicle in which she was riding, the experts said in interviews.
A reporter for The New York Times read the experts the entire medical report on Ms. Bhutto. Proper examination of the autopsy material, the clothing Ms. Bhutto wore when she was killed and the debris in the area surrounding the explosion could also help determine which extremist group made a bomb or fired a bullet, if either caused her death.
Ms. Bhutto’s case recalls that of President John F. Kennedy, who was slain in 1963. Controversy still swirls around the assassination, in part because of a flawed autopsy.
Not performing an autopsy of Ms. Bhutto “was a severe mistake, especially in the light of past problems with the murders of national leaders,” because it will fuel speculation, said Dr. Michael M. Baden, who is a top forensic official for the New York State Police as well as a former New York City chief medical examiner.
Seven doctors, but no forensic pathologist, signed Ms. Bhutto’s medical report. None were “trained to pick up the finer points of gunshot wounds” and other causes
of criminal deaths, Dr. Baden said.
For example, her doctors said they did not feel a bullet or foreign body, but did not probe for evidence of one. “With Kennedy, the treating doctors were wrong about the entrance and exit wounds” of the bullet-damaged skull, said Dr. Baden, who was chairman of the forensic pathology panel of the House of Representatives select committees on the assassinations of Kennedy and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Dr. Baden said he suspected that Ms. Bhutto died from a bullet that left two or three tiny fragments seen on X-rays be-fore it exited the skull through a wound that the Pakistani doctors did not notice in part be-cause they apparently did not shave the bloodied thick scalp hair.
Dr. Werner U. Spitz, former chief medical examiner in Detroit, said he could not understand why the government did not try to quench “the thirst of the Pakistani people to know the facts, because they are all angry, and if you confronted them with the facts, maybe the anger” would disappear.
Dr. Spitz said he suspected that Ms. Bhutto died after being hit by a bullet fired from a high-powered rifle. Dr. Vincent J. DiMaio, a former chief medical examiner in San Antonio, who also deplored the lack of an autopsy in Ms. Bhutto’s case, said he suspected that a fragment that
was propelled against her head was a more likely explanation for her death than a bullet wound.
Courtesy NY times
I also appreciate very intelligent analysis written by interactors especially the reconstructive analysis represented by Pavocavalry..
What makes me suspecious is that why they hosed down the crime scene...and why Army men of the ministry of interior made up a fake story...??
Today's daily the News international published a report in which US experts suggested that by keeping in view the damage resulted to BB's brain..a bullet from high powered gun might have killed her..it says:
US experts criticise Benazir’s post-mortem
Tuesday, January 01, 2008
By Lawrence K. Altman
Leading American experts in forensic pathology this weekend deplored the failure of Pakistani officials to order an autopsy of Benazir Bhutto, saying that the standard medical procedure was a crucial part of any credible investigation of a murder.
Exhuming the body of Ms. Bhutto, 54, a former prime minister who was killed Thursday at a political rally, could still be extremely useful in determining more precisely whether she was shot, hit by shrapnel from a suicide bomb or, less likely, died from striking her head against an object in the vehicle in which she was riding, the experts said in interviews.
A reporter for The New York Times read the experts the entire medical report on Ms. Bhutto. Proper examination of the autopsy material, the clothing Ms. Bhutto wore when she was killed and the debris in the area surrounding the explosion could also help determine which extremist group made a bomb or fired a bullet, if either caused her death.
Ms. Bhutto’s case recalls that of President John F. Kennedy, who was slain in 1963. Controversy still swirls around the assassination, in part because of a flawed autopsy.
Not performing an autopsy of Ms. Bhutto “was a severe mistake, especially in the light of past problems with the murders of national leaders,” because it will fuel speculation, said Dr. Michael M. Baden, who is a top forensic official for the New York State Police as well as a former New York City chief medical examiner.
Seven doctors, but no forensic pathologist, signed Ms. Bhutto’s medical report. None were “trained to pick up the finer points of gunshot wounds” and other causes
of criminal deaths, Dr. Baden said.
For example, her doctors said they did not feel a bullet or foreign body, but did not probe for evidence of one. “With Kennedy, the treating doctors were wrong about the entrance and exit wounds” of the bullet-damaged skull, said Dr. Baden, who was chairman of the forensic pathology panel of the House of Representatives select committees on the assassinations of Kennedy and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Dr. Baden said he suspected that Ms. Bhutto died from a bullet that left two or three tiny fragments seen on X-rays be-fore it exited the skull through a wound that the Pakistani doctors did not notice in part be-cause they apparently did not shave the bloodied thick scalp hair.
Dr. Werner U. Spitz, former chief medical examiner in Detroit, said he could not understand why the government did not try to quench “the thirst of the Pakistani people to know the facts, because they are all angry, and if you confronted them with the facts, maybe the anger” would disappear.
Dr. Spitz said he suspected that Ms. Bhutto died after being hit by a bullet fired from a high-powered rifle. Dr. Vincent J. DiMaio, a former chief medical examiner in San Antonio, who also deplored the lack of an autopsy in Ms. Bhutto’s case, said he suspected that a fragment that
was propelled against her head was a more likely explanation for her death than a bullet wound.
Courtesy NY times
#22 Posted by wileythecoyote on January 1, 2008 1:36:41 am
well all said and done, we can only speculate, the truth will never come out because the truth will destroy pakistans only institution, the army and its intellegence services and thats in nobodys interest,be it the political parties or usa. nobody wants to stir up the hornets nests, everyone wants the status quo, to be maintained, and so everything will be swept away, and benazir will remain, a glorified portrait. zardari is not an angel, neither is nawaz sharief, they all will need the power of the army and the american green buck to survive and they are simple politicians running behind power, they are rich and influential fuedal lords, why would they care about people?
people of pakistan, remain, slaves of the unholy trinity that created it, the rich land lords, the mullahs and the army .
people of pakistan, remain, slaves of the unholy trinity that created it, the rich land lords, the mullahs and the army .
#21 Posted by viqarm on December 31, 2007 12:27:07 am
Re: # 14 Major Sahib:
How do you reconcile your admiration for BB with the admiration of the warriors in Waziristan? Wasn't she planning to go after them?
How do you reconcile your admiration for BB with the admiration of the warriors in Waziristan? Wasn't she planning to go after them?
#20 Posted by krashid1961 on December 30, 2007 11:06:03 pm
Let's get insight:
It is important to know who is behind the killing.
Being a suicide bomber needs conviction of greatest degree (or under the influence of some drugs).
If it is a suicide bomber there is no question that it is the work of so called Islamic fundamentalist . Suicide bombing is not as common in Pakistan but in Iraq and some parts of Afghanistan. Even in tight security in Afghanistan and particularly in Iraq, suicide bombers have been able to target their victims to kill American and Nato soldiers. So is it the same pattern here. Benazir has been targeted twice, successful on second time. Very plausible.
Only other theory which can be invoked is that suicide bomber are acting not out of conviction of Islamic fundamentalism but under the influence of some unknown chemicals or drugs which targets the brain. There is some mention of it in Late Ibne Safi's (Israr Ahmeds) novels. Still it will relate to the same pattern and same people.
Who is behind these. Or are there different groups doing the same thing. There is some loose centrality in all these. Multiple questions. Only a person well versed in the suicide bombers and Islamic fundamentalists and their modus operandi and connections can shed a light on this.
Another question will be is this a revenge against Bhutto family, or their American mentors. Or was she a pawn.
Killing of her is not going to decrease the vote bank of PPP.
Was she killed because Army did not want to share power with her. That is possible.
Was she killed to put a blame on Army to weaken the Pakistan Army. That is possible.
Was it the act of Islamic fundamentalist, with no connection with the Army. That is possible.
Possibilities are many. But in proper terms it is called conjecture. When there are no facts to substantiate, conjecture works wonder.
Why not Sherry Rehman convince Asif Zardari to exhume Benazir and do an autopsy to determine the cause of death, rather than calling shots at all the wrong places and producing confusion and anarchy. If I was dealing with Americans it will be difficult for them to understand that Autopsy is desecrecation, but for Pakistanis it should not be difficult to understand that desecrecation is ingrained in psyche. If I am convinced that a shot or lever has caused death and not poisoning, I would do what Asif Zardari had done. If he is not convinced should request the autopsy. With three children to take care of and his life himself in danger did he accept?
It is important to know who is behind the killing.
Being a suicide bomber needs conviction of greatest degree (or under the influence of some drugs).
If it is a suicide bomber there is no question that it is the work of so called Islamic fundamentalist . Suicide bombing is not as common in Pakistan but in Iraq and some parts of Afghanistan. Even in tight security in Afghanistan and particularly in Iraq, suicide bombers have been able to target their victims to kill American and Nato soldiers. So is it the same pattern here. Benazir has been targeted twice, successful on second time. Very plausible.
Only other theory which can be invoked is that suicide bomber are acting not out of conviction of Islamic fundamentalism but under the influence of some unknown chemicals or drugs which targets the brain. There is some mention of it in Late Ibne Safi's (Israr Ahmeds) novels. Still it will relate to the same pattern and same people.
Who is behind these. Or are there different groups doing the same thing. There is some loose centrality in all these. Multiple questions. Only a person well versed in the suicide bombers and Islamic fundamentalists and their modus operandi and connections can shed a light on this.
Another question will be is this a revenge against Bhutto family, or their American mentors. Or was she a pawn.
Killing of her is not going to decrease the vote bank of PPP.
Was she killed because Army did not want to share power with her. That is possible.
Was she killed to put a blame on Army to weaken the Pakistan Army. That is possible.
Was it the act of Islamic fundamentalist, with no connection with the Army. That is possible.
Possibilities are many. But in proper terms it is called conjecture. When there are no facts to substantiate, conjecture works wonder.
Why not Sherry Rehman convince Asif Zardari to exhume Benazir and do an autopsy to determine the cause of death, rather than calling shots at all the wrong places and producing confusion and anarchy. If I was dealing with Americans it will be difficult for them to understand that Autopsy is desecrecation, but for Pakistanis it should not be difficult to understand that desecrecation is ingrained in psyche. If I am convinced that a shot or lever has caused death and not poisoning, I would do what Asif Zardari had done. If he is not convinced should request the autopsy. With three children to take care of and his life himself in danger did he accept?
#19 Posted by luqman on December 30, 2007 10:47:24 pm
Re: # 18 u r quite familiar with these police guys mr ijaz
#18 Posted by ijaz_gul on December 30, 2007 10:23:00 pm
In the pictures posted by me on gallary, please note the Police Jeep on the extreme left and two men standing at a distance, next to it. The DSP is Shah, lying in a critical condition in CMH. The old man in red is dead. In the second and third picture, there are two men pouncing on the dandy assasin. One of them is the one in white shalwar kameez standing next to the police in the first picture.
In the video released by CNN and ARY at 2 AM this night, you clearly see BB's hair and Duppatta fluttering before she falls down.
As for Agha Amin's theory, USA had as many reasons to despise Bhutto as it had for beholding her. She did things that totally estranged USA, like Pakistan's missiles, nuclear testing sites and row with USA over UNECOL.I had the honor of reading one of her hand written security papers and WOW.
Purely on merit, she was a woman with balls of Tungsten Carbide.
#17 Posted by krashid1961 on December 30, 2007 10:15:18 pm
pavocalry#
Not an apologetic, but the regime of Musharraf has gone to extreme against rightist elements. And in the process alienated a significant segment of society.
There is no question that majority of people were not unhappy with Musharraf and therefore he has been able to carry out what he did. In his last year when he went into extreme that he started to loose support. And apart from last year, policies of Musharraf had widespread support and opposition was unable to put any dent.
Although Benazir is dead and anyone aquainted with politics of Pakistan has regards for sacrifices of Bhutto family for democratic struggle. But PPP has never got absolute majority at the time of Benazir. Benazir was a good orator and understood politics but was not successful in transcribing her ideas into electoral success. To give you further insight Benazir has been Prime minister twice.
As far as who is behind this assasination, needs to be investigated.
Not an apologetic, but the regime of Musharraf has gone to extreme against rightist elements. And in the process alienated a significant segment of society.
There is no question that majority of people were not unhappy with Musharraf and therefore he has been able to carry out what he did. In his last year when he went into extreme that he started to loose support. And apart from last year, policies of Musharraf had widespread support and opposition was unable to put any dent.
Although Benazir is dead and anyone aquainted with politics of Pakistan has regards for sacrifices of Bhutto family for democratic struggle. But PPP has never got absolute majority at the time of Benazir. Benazir was a good orator and understood politics but was not successful in transcribing her ideas into electoral success. To give you further insight Benazir has been Prime minister twice.
As far as who is behind this assasination, needs to be investigated.
#16 Posted by zensufi on December 30, 2007 9:57:52 pm
I keep thinking... what the heck runs in the mind of the suicide bomber? What wonderful stuff was he promised by his superiors to commit such an act? The same applies to suicide bombers the world over... I can't make sense of it, but it sure is scary to think of suicide bombing as becoming commonplace.
-zensufi-
-zensufi-
#15 Posted by nasah on December 30, 2007 9:29:43 pm
Veteran diplomat Ghori is exactly right in raising these questions -- who killed Benbazir and how and why -- and who was that gunman -- why he is being protected -- these are the questions the whole international diplomatic corp is asking -- nobody believes that Cheema moron's cockamamie ever changing story:
* A diplomat asks why the govt is so eager to avoid acknowledging the role of a gunman?"
By Khalid Hasan
WASHINGTON: Western diplomats told Los Angeles Times, according to a report published on Sunday, that they found the Pakistani government statements on the assassination of Benazir Bhutto worrying in their wider implications.
“It’s not only that this is not a credible account of what happened – that’s obvious on the face of it,” said a
diplomat familiar with security matters, speaking on condition of anonymity.
He was commenting on the government’s changing version of the assassination, which, in its third take attributed Benazir’s death to a head injury suffered as she fell through the opening of the vehicle she was in.
An eager govt: A Western diplomat told the newspaper, “It’s that it raises questions about why the government is so extraordinarily eager to avoid acknowledging the role of a gunman, whether or not the wounds were fatal. At the very least, it’s puzzling.”
________________________________________________________
Several analysts said the use of a handgun in addition to explosives is a departure for militant groups in Pakistan.
_______________________________________________________
“This is not by any means a signature killing by Al Qaeda,” security analyst Nasim Zehra told the Los Angeles Times,
“A targeted shooting, even in combination with a familiar suicide bombing, makes it look more like a political killing than one by some militant group.”
Columnist Ikram Sehgal said, “Obviously, they were studying her movements in the course of the political campaign. Inside the rally, it was relatively secure; her problem was entering and leaving. She was highly vulnerable at that time. It was done very professionally.
It was a ‘hit’.”
That degree of professionalism suggests to some experts the hand of Pakistan’s security apparatus, which has previously aided and abetted militant groups, including the Taliban, according to the newspaper’s correspondent who filed the report from Pakistan.
Also quoted was security analyst Ayesha Siddiqa, “The agencies have ongoing connections with the militants. It’s very simplistic to talk about the militants doing this and doing that, all the while acting alone.”
It indeed was a hit' -- not an unexpected event but a killing known to happen -- the relaxed way with no sense of urgency the police and the SP wallking liesurly among the carnage with no intention of collecting evidence with the evidence being hosed out in a matter of fact way before the international video cameras -- as if a routine mission accomplished as expected. -- doesn't look like a job done by Musharraf's friend Baitullah sahib in Msuharraf's Baitul Muqaddas Rawalpindi -- but by Muqqaddas Musharraf sahib himself.
* A diplomat asks why the govt is so eager to avoid acknowledging the role of a gunman?"
By Khalid Hasan
WASHINGTON: Western diplomats told Los Angeles Times, according to a report published on Sunday, that they found the Pakistani government statements on the assassination of Benazir Bhutto worrying in their wider implications.
“It’s not only that this is not a credible account of what happened – that’s obvious on the face of it,” said a
diplomat familiar with security matters, speaking on condition of anonymity.
He was commenting on the government’s changing version of the assassination, which, in its third take attributed Benazir’s death to a head injury suffered as she fell through the opening of the vehicle she was in.
An eager govt: A Western diplomat told the newspaper, “It’s that it raises questions about why the government is so extraordinarily eager to avoid acknowledging the role of a gunman, whether or not the wounds were fatal. At the very least, it’s puzzling.”
________________________________________________________
Several analysts said the use of a handgun in addition to explosives is a departure for militant groups in Pakistan.
_______________________________________________________
“This is not by any means a signature killing by Al Qaeda,” security analyst Nasim Zehra told the Los Angeles Times,
“A targeted shooting, even in combination with a familiar suicide bombing, makes it look more like a political killing than one by some militant group.”
Columnist Ikram Sehgal said, “Obviously, they were studying her movements in the course of the political campaign. Inside the rally, it was relatively secure; her problem was entering and leaving. She was highly vulnerable at that time. It was done very professionally.
It was a ‘hit’.”
That degree of professionalism suggests to some experts the hand of Pakistan’s security apparatus, which has previously aided and abetted militant groups, including the Taliban, according to the newspaper’s correspondent who filed the report from Pakistan.
Also quoted was security analyst Ayesha Siddiqa, “The agencies have ongoing connections with the militants. It’s very simplistic to talk about the militants doing this and doing that, all the while acting alone.”
It indeed was a hit' -- not an unexpected event but a killing known to happen -- the relaxed way with no sense of urgency the police and the SP wallking liesurly among the carnage with no intention of collecting evidence with the evidence being hosed out in a matter of fact way before the international video cameras -- as if a routine mission accomplished as expected. -- doesn't look like a job done by Musharraf's friend Baitullah sahib in Msuharraf's Baitul Muqaddas Rawalpindi -- but by Muqqaddas Musharraf sahib himself.
#14 Posted by pavocavalry on December 30, 2007 8:32:24 pm
The Kennedy style assassination of Benazir Bhuto is a major attempt,by forces who view the geopolitical scenario differently or have a vested interest or stake in the present political order in Pakistan , to render null and void the US plan to impose a civilian political leader in Pakistan who could deliver the goods and be effective in translating US policy goals into practice.In this statement lies the answer to who or who could have been behind this assassination plot.The USA since 9/11 has invested a considerable amount of funds in Pakistan in order to achieve their foreign policy aims.There has been a growing feeling in USA as well as its NATO allies that the Pakistani military junta was playing a kind of double game.That it was hunting with the hounds and running with the foxes.Further it was felt in the vest that the military junta of Pakistan lacked popular support and was more a liability than an asset .Without going into any conspiracy theories , even a layman can assess that there was someone ,may be an individual,a group , or a class who was not happy about the idea of power sharing with a person of Benazir’s stature or effectiveness.That she was regarded as the most serious potential threat once she had entered the corridors of power.If the above premise is accepted then any who is anything in Pakistan in the institutional or political sense could be a party in this assassination.The reason that they did so was that they feared that her policies would rock the boat and transform the power equation in a significant manner.A cursory glance at the assassination proves that it was a well planned affair and the planners had carefully studied the previous patterns of Benazir’s public addresses.The planners knew that a suicide blast was ineffective against a bullet proof vehicle.The planners knew that entire faith would have to be placed in the kinetic energy of the projectile released by a fire arm.The blast was aimed at removing the evidence i.e the person who fired the shots.Man as Machiavelli stated act out of necessity or choice.. In case of Benazir the assassinating group or persons acted out of necessity.They felt that she had to be physically removed.The premise for this decision was that she was the centre of gravity of the PPP and once she is off the scene any of her successors , even if they won the elections were good enough for business because they were more pliable and did not possess Benazir’s phenomenal intellect and political acumen.The perpetrators also did not foresee the type of popular backlash that took place after Benazir’s assassination.It may be theorized that Benazir’s assassination had two teams , one the apparent visible perpetrator group caught in the camera and scond an invisible actual perpetrator group in a 100 to 300 metre radius of the venue.The visible perpetrator group or the Suicide bomber and the gun slinger team was used to prove that this was an act of the bad dog Al Qaeda ! The gun shot was fired from a close range of less than 6 metres to ensure accuracy.Multiple shots were fired so that they could act as a cover up for sniper shots by causing confusion.Now the question of the suicide bombers and the assassin who fired the gunshots.These clowns are not difficult to find in Pakistan.These can be enrolled by any intelligence agency operatives who penetrate an extremist organization disguised as motivated soldiers of Islam.The technique was perfected by the Czarist Okhrana and this concept was known as agent provocateur.It has also been stated that suicide bombers families are paid between 5 to 10 million rupees.In a nutshell the suicide team was used to give the whole affair an Al Qaeda look.The most crucial part of the assassination could have been the sniper group well deployed in any of the surrounding buildings in a 500 metre radius.Present day sniper rifles are fully silenced like the VSS Russian Sniper Rifle having a fully silenced and flashless range of 100 metres. And the AS silent sniper rifle which can penetrate even a bullet proof jacket at 400 metres range.Evidence was very swiftly destroyed and no post mortem carried out so the caliber of bullet that did the fatal job is not discovered.Benazir’s assassination was a perfection of the Liaquat Ali Khan assassination carried out in the same venue 56 years back.At that time suicide bombing had not been introduced so the evidence i.e the gun man was not destroyed.That went against the intelligence agencies of that time as the assassin was a paid operative of a Pakistani civilian intelligence agency.The group or the people who organized this assassination learnt from that faux pas and made sure in this case that the main evidence i.e the evident perpetrators were destroyed.The significance of this assassination lies in the fact that Benazir’s party is far better organized than the Muslim League that Liaquat Ali Khan led and that Benazir was a popular leader whose party had won three elections conducted on popular franchise, The significance of this assassination lies in the fact that Pakistan is a far more aware society than in 1951.We hope that Benazir assassination will act as a major catalyst in restoring democracy to Pakistan.The fatal shots have been fired.The forces who want to preserve the status quo have played their turn .Now the initiative to counter attack or to change the status quo is with the PPP provided it has a leader who has resolution to do so ! Now it is the game of greater resolve.The Goddess of victory favours those who are audacious !
#13 Posted by MKemosabe on December 30, 2007 7:30:20 pm
blithe, you are absolutely right when you wrote:
{# 4, your tirade on the author is childish and unbecoming. The gentleman is a retired career diplomat (I assume from a competitive CSS exam). Judging from his Chowk page, he was never a political appointee (on his Chowk page it says that he served in various countries for 35 years).}
He was a career diplomat through and through and passed the CSP exam with distinction and honors.
As for #4 (and HP, following is a infectious illness, so be careful) what else can you except from someone who’s suffering from the hoof and mouth disease.
{# 4, your tirade on the author is childish and unbecoming. The gentleman is a retired career diplomat (I assume from a competitive CSS exam). Judging from his Chowk page, he was never a political appointee (on his Chowk page it says that he served in various countries for 35 years).}
He was a career diplomat through and through and passed the CSP exam with distinction and honors.
As for #4 (and HP, following is a infectious illness, so be careful) what else can you except from someone who’s suffering from the hoof and mouth disease.
#12 Posted by masadi on December 30, 2007 3:13:55 pm
This is from the other board in which I was responding to Bulleya's veiled support for Army overlordship in Pakistan, it is relevent for the Who Killed Her question so I am reposting it here
---
#11 Posted by masadi on December 30, 2007 3:08:49 pm
bulleya writes "in pakistan's case, this is a fiefdom.....much different from a dynasty "
Once again, clueless generalizations that are the hallmark for military apologists of Pakistan. The PPP was an anomaly, it was not the same colonial/feudal nexus that defined the politics of the MAJ. It was something new in that it awakened the masses to their rights and their worth, contrary to the feudal image of them. What is happening at the top, the manipulation of the Bhutto name is for the purpose of managing the powerbase of the party, the people, whose support for the party was located not in the name of Bhutto but in the socialistic principles he embodied and struggled for. Benazir coopted her father's principles and reverted to the colonial/feudal nexus of the past in large reason due to the fate she saw her father suffer and (and bulleya deliberately evades this connection) that all political players have to operate under the shadow of the Pakistan Army, which by the way as an instituion operates in a monarchial way moreso than what any feudal can muster, considering the country to be its papa's Jagir to be taken over, used and abused at will. Right now the ppp has been hijacked by Zardari and his alliance with the military/US PML-Q faction. I wouldn't be surprised if he conspired using trusted insiders to get rid of the BB.
---
#11 Posted by masadi on December 30, 2007 3:08:49 pm
bulleya writes "in pakistan's case, this is a fiefdom.....much different from a dynasty "
Once again, clueless generalizations that are the hallmark for military apologists of Pakistan. The PPP was an anomaly, it was not the same colonial/feudal nexus that defined the politics of the MAJ. It was something new in that it awakened the masses to their rights and their worth, contrary to the feudal image of them. What is happening at the top, the manipulation of the Bhutto name is for the purpose of managing the powerbase of the party, the people, whose support for the party was located not in the name of Bhutto but in the socialistic principles he embodied and struggled for. Benazir coopted her father's principles and reverted to the colonial/feudal nexus of the past in large reason due to the fate she saw her father suffer and (and bulleya deliberately evades this connection) that all political players have to operate under the shadow of the Pakistan Army, which by the way as an instituion operates in a monarchial way moreso than what any feudal can muster, considering the country to be its papa's Jagir to be taken over, used and abused at will. Right now the ppp has been hijacked by Zardari and his alliance with the military/US PML-Q faction. I wouldn't be surprised if he conspired using trusted insiders to get rid of the BB.
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