Making a Mockery of Democracy

#60 krashid: I wish what you say about mqm being non-ethnic were true. But I dont see how can say that in the face of evidence to the contrary over a period of decades. The fact is that while mqm leaders understand that they can never be a significant political force at the national level without support from the rest of Pakistan, they have proved emotionally incapable of thinking outside narrow ethnic boundries. They are thus doomed to playing a negative and divisive role in Pakistan politics.

On your specific responses:

1. Killing of peaceful protestors on March 12.
You say: MQM claims that it is other way round.
My Response: You know what mqm claims is not true, so it is obvious that you merely gloss over this fact merely to avoid agreeing on this point of fact. All you achieve, though, is undermine your own credibility as an objective observer. The Chief Justice had spoken before peaceful demonstrators for democracy in other cities in Pakistan, and there was no reason to believe that things would be otherwise in Karachi. The Chief Justice was speaking out against military dictatorship, not against mqm or any other political party.

2- Promote ethnic rifts in Karachi.
You say: As the above history suggest MQM started as ethnic party, but later changed its direction. In fact administration supported the party based on Mohajir Qaumiat against Muttahida which changed its direction. And MQM is composed of Non Mohajirs as well as Mohajirs.
My Response: While mqm tried to change direction, it has failed to do so. Just changing the name means nothing. And its betrayal of the democracy movement and support for musharraf can only be understood based on its ethnic mindset I referred to above, since there is no other obvious reason for a mqm to have supported musharraf's attempts to stay on as military ruler. This again points to the short-sighted mindset of mqm leaders who failed to recognize that musharraf owes his power to the military, and military rule is ultimately harmful to all Pakistanis regardless of ethnicity.

3- Promote violence against political opponents.
You say: When APMSO started its politics it was targeted and its workers were beaten badly. It from the very beginning had to fight the Jamiat terrorism. Later on since it has changed its name and direction, violence is against MQM and thousands of its workers havers have been killed in the name of EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLING.
My response: The killings of May 12, and the fact that the murderers of May 12 walk free without any mqm leader calling for their arrest, demonstrate otherwise.

4- Supporting a military dictatorship, while ridiculing Pakistan civil society.
Your response: Where was Pakistan civil society when there was operation in Sind and Baluchistan against the people by the Army. MQM always supported and took stand for those people, whether they were part of Government or not. While so called flag bearer of civil society were taking oath on PCO bypassing the principled Supreme court judges and making sure their children get a good future bypassing the law.

My response: In writing the above, you provide a "rationale" for opposing the civil society of Pakistan. Thus contradicting your own claims above that mqm is no longer an ethnic party. Nor is this "rationale" - even if it were fair and objective - is not enough to support the betrayal of Pakistan by mqm during its darkest hours.

#66 Posted by majumdar on January 1, 2008 3:34:58 am


How many people were murdered in B'desh at ZAB's behest


Why are you bringing up the killing of a few hundred thousand people? Are you a muslim hating, pakistan hating indian hater or something?

Salim-Chauhan (61), tahmed32, and hamidm2:

Guys, thank you for focusing on the raison d'etre of the article.

Mohammad Gill

(MQM is much bigger evil company than PPP. )

How so? How many people have MQM killed? How many people were murdered in B'desh at ZAB's behest, how many in B'stan and NWFP in the ZAB Govt. And how many Mojos in Karachi by BB- N Babur combine, and how many killed by Talibs spawned by BB's 2nd Regime.

Regards

Salim_Chuahan:

"Clearly you have succeeded in compensating for my bad moments.:) As evil as Mushy is, I have not heard rumors about his $1.5 B stash in Swiss banks or palaces in Surrey or being convicted of money laundering by a European court."

For the faujis, Pakistan is their own Swiss Bank and fiefdom, so why would they need to stash away their money elsewhere and buy up palaces in far-away lands?

Salim_chauhan,
Maybe you also did not watch what MQM did in May of 2007. How many people were killed by them and did any one of them was brought to justice? MQM is much bigger evil company than PPP. Do you know what much democratic MQM is? Why only blame PPP only?

#25 rf786 {"I believe your slip is showing when u show such one-sided, prejudicial view of history.... Here we go again, since Musharraf is a mutarwa he does not deserve your generosity. Surely u wud have some evidence to back these claims of yours, otherwise people would reserve the right to call you a liar. ... admit it you are a hypocrite who pretends to honor democracy but are just a plain old bigot."}

Bismillah Bhai,
Clearly you have succeeded in compensating for my bad moments.:) As evil as Mushy is, I have not heard rumors about his $1.5 B stash in Swiss banks or palaces in Surrey or being convicted of money laundering by a European court. Maybe a 2000 sq yd plot here and there for guarding our borders just like the other ghazis, but no billions in 10% kickbacks or siphoned aid dollars. Thank you for trying to balance the blame scale.

#54 root {"Why target PPP only, how about MQM? Is it not know to be a terrorist organization. MQM is the one that should be banned and not PPP."}

Root,
Maybe you have not been watching the destruction of Pakistan at the hands of PPP workers, supporters, and ordinary goons. Did Arjun post something about Rs. 300 billion as an estimate? Forget about the loss of life - Pakistan can always afford losing people (our lives are cheap), but all that money is going to add up to real value sooner or later.

If I were the Government of Pakistan, I would jail every one of the PPP leaders and not release those bastards until they compensate all the victims of their party's senseless rioting.

{"Those who are seeking to establish democracy should begin to establish it at the grass roots. The political parties which seek to contest elections must abide by some fundamental requirements. Their parties should be rid of dynastic control (like PPP) and democratized. ... Otherwise, a government of an undemocratic party is as bad, if not worse, than the government of an army dictator."}

Gill Sahib,
Very good point! This is the type of stuff that our blind, deaf, dumb, and mute "Demo Cracy, Demo Cracy" chanting ethnic bigots fail to consider. They just want people to vote and certify another Vadera or Country Bumpkin to head our country.

#16 krashid: What has mqm done other than "survive" and rant hollow slogans about the "feudal/industrialist alliance"? Let me count for you:

1. Kill peaceful protestors on May 12.
2. Promote ethnic rifts in karachi.
3. Promote violence against political opponents.
4. Support a military dictatorship while ridiculing Pakistani civil society that has bravely stood up.

I would be much obliged if you could tell me what I am missing above. If you cant do that, then it seems to me that you need to get your basis straight and look through the eyes of a democrat.

The roots of MQM start from its student politics. APMSO. At that time all major student parties were either associated with National, Regional Political parties or Foreign powers.
It started with rights of Mohajir or Urdu speaking. From the very beginning out of necessity against Jamate-Islami and its student wing, it has allied itself with progressive anf leftist forces.
Later on MQM came into being and took strength in 1986. Till that time apart from fringe regional parties, Karachi always had political parties with National presence and outlook like Peoples Party, Jamate Islami, JamiateUlamae Islam etc. And it was mainly rightist parties which had hold in Karachi.
Somehow MQM appealed to the young generation (and not the old) and reasons can be discussed. And establishment realizing this in the beginning gave support to it. At the very beginning MQM was doing ethnic politics. Later on with time and analysis they realized that the problems facing the youth and poor people of Mohajir is similar to the people in other parts of country, they changed their name and slogan to Muttahida. In this process party got split. Mohajir Qaumi Movement which is still doing Qaumiat politics and does not enjoy much support and Muttahida Qaumi Movement.
Irony is that the establishment joined hands with Mohajir Qaumi Movement whose politics is still based on Mohajir Qaumiat to crush Muttahida Qaumi Movement which has changed its path to a National outlook.
As far as supporting Musharraf is not based on ethnicity. MQM has allied itself based on its politics with Benazir, Nawaz Sharif etc.
Inspite of being part of Government MQM has always took stand for the rights of people for example it even threatened to quit Government if Army action is not stopped in Baluchistan.
As far as CJ Fiasco of March 12 is concerned, I am ambivalent. CJ was coming to Karachi bar with his own philosophy and own tirade against Government and there are no two opinions on this. MQM is and was responsible for law and order situation in Karachi. From my student days I know it very well that first priority of any administration is to keep law and order.
Now to your questions.
1- Kill peaceful protestors on March 12. MQM claims that it is other way round.
2- Promote ethnic rifts in Karachi. As the above history suggest MQM started as ethnic party, but later changed its direction. In fact administration supported the party based on Mohajir Qaumiat against Muttahida which changed its direction. And MQM is composed of Non Mohajirs as well as Mohajirs.
3- Promote violence against political opponents. When APMSO started its politics it was targeted and its workers were beaten badly. It from the very beginning had to fight the Jamiat terrorism. Later on since it has changed its name and direction, violence is against MQM and thousands of its workers havers have been killed in the name of EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLING.
4- Supporting a military dictatorship, while ridiculing Pakistan civil society. Where was Pakistan civil society when there was operation in Sind and Baluchistan against the people by the Army. MQM always supported and took stand for those people, whether they were part of Government or not. While so called flag bearer of civil society were taking oath on PCO bypassing the principled Supreme court judges and making sure their children get a good future bypassing the law.
If you want to discuss further on any points, I will be most open.

Gill writes "Wish you all a happy and prosperous New Year."

I wish you a year where you use your mind and instead of mass producing banal, meaningless articles that rehash in prompter style, other articles, you produce some quality articles...which is asking for too much so I keep my fingers crossed.

Leena " is it not obvious that it has become our habit to get away with everything by blaming Al Qaeda, who happens to offer the best blanket for all sorts of criminals..."

This disease was caught via intercourse with the US and its WOT, where everything from bird flu to Hillary Clinton's erratic bowel movements are blamed on Al Qaeda, and countries attacked and destroyed as a consequence. If it were the early 1980s, BBs assassination would be blamed on the godless Soviets and never the pious freedom loving and freedom fighting Mujahideen....

This may not have escaped from any reader's/viewer's notice that the international media is strictly linking the extremists with the murder of BB. However, it is clearly stated by Mr Zardari that his wife confided in Mark Seigel about the potential threat and in his press breifing, he also drew attention towards Q League. In the light of his statement, is it not obvious that it has become our habit to get away with everything by blaming Al Qaeda, who happens to offer the best blanket for all sorts of criminals. It remains a question whether there is some specialised network as Al Qaeda. But this blame game has lost its credibility now.
It is already established that the PPP never trusted the interim set-up and Musharraf in anyway, then is it not strange to blame the entire security lapse on the government. Where were the guards of PPP. There were hardly ten of the Jaan Nisars around her. One cannot ask an enemy for protection. The authorities must probe into the intentions of the party member in charge of the security of BB. There is another element in light, that the PPP is likely to request a foreign team of experts for investigation, but, is it not already establised that post 9/11, the efficiency and skills of Pakistani agencies have excelled that of the Western counterparts, the West has shown full confidence in our agencies for support in war against terror. The so-called responsible media of the West is strangely not raising such issues.

tahmed writes "The only "reason" I have seen so far is that without the Bhutto name PPP would lose votes - rest assured it is not the Bhutto name, but the PPP claims to be the voice of the poor, that generated support for it."

He shamelessly copies straight from my post on the other thread regarding "voice of the poor" part but is ignorant not to see the difference. The support for ZAB was because of "voice of the poor"- the support for BB was because of the ZAB. Now if there was a structure in place then when the charismatic leader went, so would the name recognition and the "voice of the people" would remain, but no such structure existed, it existed in the person of the ZAB alone, so as expected the Bhutto name is what matters now, it is being manipulated by Zardari who has hijacked the party on behalf of the US/Pak Army and their related and assorted scavengers...

Well it all makes perfect sense doesn't it Gill Saheb, A Bilawal crying on the dais begging for tears that his mother was assassinated is more feasible than a deserving Amin Fahim or Aitzaz Ahsan, isn't it? BB's death is a horrific incident, but people should now really look beyond all that and try to understand the politics the PPP is practicing in the guise of mourning. Good critique Mr. Gill... kudos

Chowk Management, Staff and Chowk Members:

Wish you all a happy and prosperous New Year.

Mohammad Gill

Why target PPP only, how about MQM? Is it not know to be a terrorist organization. MQM is the one that should be banned and not PPP.