Making a Mockery of Democracy

gill sahib,

i admire your sentiments and you have have full support .... "Their parties should be rid of dynastic control (like PPP) and democratized. Otherwise, Pakistan’s Constitution should not permit them to contest elections."

....lead on, i am right behind you ......sorry, i mis-spoke ..... actually i am right behind tahmed ...

... tu chal mein aya !

Gill sahab very true depiction of the reality. But that exonerates the fundamentalists, but how come they wish to set the parliament and constitution right when in their educational dens they seek to banish the English curriculum, which is assumed to be imported?
Moreover, Bhutto was the one to cap the 22 industrialist families and showed them the door, their investment flew out of Pakistan along with brain drain which continue till date. But ignorance is what PPP survives on. And people like Naheed Khan too have to survive somehow or the other.

Shoresahib: I suggest you save your tears for someone more in need of them than the "Bilawal kid" - this man has the money and the connections needed.

I suggest you think of the 30 other people who died that day - I heard a 5 year old child of a poor man who was also killed in the explosion join her widowed mother in professing loyalty to the party. No doubt the mother was doing this in hopes of some material support from the party now that she and her children have to worry about their next meal. That is the reality that more than a hundred million Pakistanis face every day. That is what is really heart-breaking.

HP #44 You say "There are some genuine reasons for continuing the control in the Family.", but the reasons you provide ("Pakistan is no England or Europe that all parties should follow the pristine and pure form of democracy or they are not allowed to function.") is no reason. It is like saying that one should not call for political progress in Pakistan because Pakistan is no England or Europe.

The only "reason" I have seen so far is that without the Bhutto name PPP would lose votes - rest assured it is not the Bhutto name, but the PPP claims to be the voice of the poor, that generated support for it.

If political parties dont practice what they preach (i.e. democracy), then they are as fake as musharraf's claim to represent the "supreme national interest". Of course any step away from military rule is a good one - but it would have been much better for Pakistan and for PPP's future and even for the Bhutto family itself if Zardari had not made this power grab. But then...no one accused Pakistan's political leadership of being able to see beyond its nose.

rf: i am not interested in exchanging personal attacks (even one couched in fake respectfullness). have a good day.

GT:

I do not claim to be a very knowledgeable politician but I look around critically to see what is happening in the political arena. I am neither pro “a certain political party” nor am I against “another.” In my view all the political parties have failed to promote democracy in Pakistan. See my earlier article “Political Quandary in Pakistan.”

Only a few have commented on my point of view that a political party needs to become democratic within its own ranks and files before it can serve the bigger cause of nation-wide democracy.

You wrote in your PS “..I think I understand the reasons behind Bilawal accession” but you did not share those reasons in your post. Doesn’t PPP have any other mature “non-Bhutto” politician to head the party after BB? Is PPP so bereft of good politicians? Why PPP does have to be dynastic? Why is it improper to criticize the dynastic make-up of the party?

We, politicians and non-politicians, need to criticize the policies and structure of the political parties who seek to rule us; if we don’t, there is no hope for improvement. You and others got entangled in my quotes from Dalrymple (who by the way wrote a very informative article) but ignored the central part of my article.

Be well,

Mohammad Gill

#45 Posted by GT on December 31, 2007 11:42:52 am

Are bhai...your problem is unrealistic expectations brought about by self-delusion..

even after 9/11, pakis deluded themselves into thinking that they had signed on to the WoT of their own volition. Starting at this point, some people even told us that pureland would now have Uncle Sam's wind in her sails and would soon be sailing to "kashmir banega pakiland" island..they told us that pakiland was now the talk of the town and when bush visited pakiland, he'd be so beholden to pakis that he'd stop for every tongawalla. yup..and we were told wearing a t-shirt with a paki flag would keep us safe in the US.

Now when reality strikes, as it always does, you claim to be shocked at US behavior...

Gill Sahib,

You are a great writer but this article leaves something more to be desired. Usually your analyses are well thought out and quite well developed, but here you leave us wondering whether you yourself knew the main idea behind this article.

As HP pointed out this article seems rehashing on William Dalrymple's article. I tend to agree with him, although I have faith that you should be back full force in your next article.

As far as Bilawal is concerned, I feel bad for the poor kid. Its a very heavy responsibility for his young shoulders. I am sure the same people who assassinated his mother would love to get their hands on him.

I see the future as an ominous one for him. Nothing good will come out of him entering this dark abyss of Pakistani politics. May Allah protect this child, and keep him safe.

Its one thing to lose your mother, but another to be made the sacrificial animal to assuage the political ambitions of his father.

God help him.

arjun,

Ok, then lets say that now it (US intereference) is a pain.

VRV, masadi;

I will not get into a debate right now about the efficacy of US "control over the world". To a large extent, this so called "control" is usually handed over (though at times it is snatched as in the case of Iraq). Refusal to hand over control is the first step. And that is happening in Pakistan (you may want to see BB's murder in this light). As a result, it seems to me that, the Americans are quite confused. This is the time .... the lawyers and the students need to come out on the streets again.

I am sorry Gill sahib,
This is not your best effort. If you are from Pakistan, you don't need Dalrymple or any one else to extensively quote from. The whole article as RAS pointed out is all about Dalrymple and a few lines from you.

Even when you quote someone else, it is your responsibility to fact check the quote. The PPP was not founded in 1963. A little google would have helped you here.

There are some genuine reasons for continuing the control in the Family. Pakistan is no England or Europe that all parties should follow the pristine and pure form of democracy or they are not allowed to function.

Now if you were a knowledgeable political commentator, you would have weighed all the reasons against your contentions here.

I hope you can post the other pov as you see it, so we understand your knowledge of the events and not of Dalrymple.

Thanks.
PS. My post is by no means endorsement of what the PPP did but I think I understand the reasons behind Bilawal accession.
I would like you make the case so we know what your understanding is of the PPP pov in this whole saga.

#35 Posted by masadi on December 31, 2007 10:23:33 am


Mujib had no representation in the West


But if a west paki leader had no representation in the East, you'd be ok with him being the ruler of the whole of pureland...right?

B4 Kiyani was appointed COAS Mush got to get green signal from the US. So, endorsement holds.......

#36 Posted by GT on December 31, 2007 10:54:42 am


huge proportion of the Pakistani middle class have come to know that the Pakistani army works more for US interests than for Pakistan.


They knew it before...It's not like they woke up one day and took a smart pill..they knew it but they were ok with it as long as being in the US camp meant getting $$ and F-16s to fight the hindooos and take indian kashmir..

GT writes "I have the feeling, that this time it is very different. And VRV, you say : "Nobody can rule Pakistan without getting endorsement from America." I disagree. There is a change and I see it clearly."

The change is in its infancy, and as long as the military in Pakistan calls the shots the statement about endorsement from America will hold true. The change however is there, itself a consequence of US dealings with the Pakistan Army and how its top commander after being given power becomes confused after a while and starts behaving in an "uppity" fashion, that is why you will see a US occupation of the Western parts in the near future.

GT,

We didnt see u for a while. Welcome back.

As for the US endorsement, they create hype to dethrone anybody they dont like/want and conversely they prop up any moron as long as he serves the American interests (eg. Honsi Mubarak, Musharraf).

Case in point is Sadam Hussain. The humbug abt WMDs and all the that is a figment of imagination & they sacked CIA guy for that.

They almost did another Iraq on Syria but looking at what happened in Iraq they backed out. Samething goes for Iran.


There are 2 exceptions.

1. Cuba
2. North Korea

My guess is that they dont want to touch Cuba coz it's Christian majority country. They wont bomb Cuba the way they bombed Iraq.

North Korea wud remain a living specimen/example of communist tyranny and impoverihsment of ppl under such regime. Alternatively, NK didnt have any oil/gold reserves. Seconldy Americans can have their bases in South Korea, Japan/Okinawa and elsewhere in the Pacific Ocean (Japan had cap on defence spending since WWII, which is relaxed of late). It generates a lot of money for them.

Keeping N Korea therefore serves:

a. worst specimen for everybody to see so that ppl abhor communism

b. US can remain control of the whole region

c. Make money outta defence supplies

else

I dont see why they let this monster Kim Jong Il to continue as the Head of N Korea.

democracy is the best revenge
revenge is a dish best served cold

which is why pureland has no democracy...

they pulled the dish out of the freezer in 1947 and they're waiting for the it to thaw out.