A Cursed Nation

#24 Posted by nasah on January 5, 2008 7:56:12 pm


the woman is already dead


So the fact that hitler is dead means we shouldn't talk about his role in the holocaust?

Bhutto’s Deadly Legacy
By WILLIAM DALRYMPLE

New Delhi

WHEN, in May 1991, former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi of India was killed by a suicide bomber, there was an international outpouring of grief. Recent days have seen the same with the death of Benazir Bhutto: another glamorous, Western-educated scion of a great South Asian political dynasty tragically assassinated at an election rally.

There is, however, an important difference between the two deaths: while Mr. Gandhi was assassinated by Sri Lankan Hindu extremists because of his policy of confronting them, Ms. Bhutto was apparently the victim of Islamist militant groups that she allowed to flourish under her administrations in the 1980s and 1990s.

It was under Ms. Bhutto’s watch that the Pakistani intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, first installed the Taliban in Afghanistan. It was also at that time that hundreds of young Islamic militants were recruited from the madrassas to do the agency’s dirty work in Indian Kashmir. It seems that, like some terrorist equivalent of Frankenstein’s monster, the extremists turned on both the person and the state that had helped bring them into being.

While it is true that the recruitment of jihadists had started before she took office and that Ms. Bhutto was insufficiently strong — or competent — to have had full control over either the intelligence services or the Pakistani Army when she was in office, it is equally naïve to believe she had no influence over her country’s foreign policy toward its two most important neighbors, India and Afghanistan.

RE: Salim_Chauhan #26


Salim, so far only you have complained.

Are you THE Chowk sewer?


Ras

Ras,
Please stop making an intolerable nuisance out of yourself. You are clogging up the Chowk sewers.

#24 nasah {" as if one assassination was not enough -- everybody is getting to become a freethinker on the grave of that wretched Muslim woman who aspired to be equal to the woman-bashing, woman-baiting woman-degrading, misogynist, chauvinist pigs of Muslim men -- PhD or no PhD."}

Nasah,
No one is dragging her good name through the mud. But, come on, while we all wish to respect her and mourn her sad and untimely demise, many of us cannot concur with the pendulum swinging to the beatification side.

Please don't pretend that BB was a poor, wretched, under-privileged, and oppressed Muslim woman. As a female VaDera or VaDeri, She ruled over thousands of serfs, who are men, women, and children. Unless you are familiar with Paki feudals, especially in Sind, you have no idea how oppressive these blue-bloods are.

"ZAB planted the seeds of intolerance. BB inherited quite a bit from her Dad's autocratic personality too. What apity!"(Kamath)

Is this some kind of orchestrated Benazir bashing post assassination? -- posthumously yet another free for all assassination season?

as if one assassination was not enough -- everybody is getting to become a freethinker on the grave of that wretched Muslim woman who aspired to be equal to the woman-bashing, woman-baiting woman-degrading, misogynist, chauvinist pigs of Muslim men -- PhD or no PhD.

Have some sense of decency and a sense of propriety -- the woman is already dead – don’t drag her ‘carcass’ around on Chowk killing her twice thrice and zillion times – she is already dead -- for crying out loud!

"We, the people, instinctively know the insidious and shadowy killers of Benazir Bhutto. We can sense them.
We know its not Taliban or their mutants. They are far more sinister. We have seen them attack us before,
by attacking those we have raised to pitch battles against them. But we don't know yet how to name them."

Nafisa Shah in The News at:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=89612

Re: # 19 Salim_Chauhan:
Thank you very much for the explanation. I was puzzled by how people can put a spin on anything ! Zia wa supposedly a devout Muslim. It is said of him that he Islamized Pakistan for the sake of protecting Pakistan going astray from its roots and foundation of Pakistan ie Islam. So How can ZAB be Shaheed?

I have watched ZAB and BB from the days of Simla Conference and also have read good deal about these two persons. In my opinion he was a quite a demogogue in real life as well as in UN General Assy. I actually watched him walking away calling India as " dogs" for breaking Pakistan apart and tearing the papers -speech- and tossing above his head. Is he not the man who brought legislation against Ahmadias to be 'debarred" as Muslims with immense agony to Ahmadias? Remember the sad story of Nobellist-Abus Salaam?

ZAB planted the seeds of intolerance. BB inherited quite a bit from her Dad's autocratic personality too. What apity!

I suggest time has come to overanalysing Pakistan's political history and health. Itr is like flogging a dead horse! Time to move on in full speed for the sake of people and the nation!

BTW if any person hasn't read another version of BB's legacy please read, Khalid Hassan's -"..POSTCARD USA: Benazir and her detractors — Khalid Hasan.." column.

See:http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=200816story_6-1- 2008_pg3_3

Salaam.
Kamath

Nasah #20 {"Musharraf said Benazir Bhutto bears the responsibility of her own death"(Reuters)-- "Qissa khatam paisa hazam"
My only hope is that people won't say the same for Mussharraf when he dies."}

Nasha,
Please be fair to Mushy. He said something like "They are after me, but I know how to protect meself." In other words, while the foolish BB stuck her upper torso through the sunroof of the SUV, Mushy is careful never to stick his head out of his own rectum. :)

"this recent assassination of Benazir Bhutto, no one really cares that why this cruel thing happens again and again. To solve a problem one always needs to identify the root cause of the problem."(author)

Well sir 'no one really cares' may be true for you -- but Musharraf sahib does care -- the new 'root cause' of the problem is that it is always the fault of the deceased that they die so unceremoniously -- as Musharraf sahib has just testified to the 'real cause':

Musharraf said Benazir Bhutto bears the responsibility of her own death"(Reuters)-- "Qissa khatam paisa hazam"

My only hope is that people won't say the same for Mussharraf when he dies.

Kamath #17 {"Salim: S.C"
I honestly believe you have a sane head on your shoulder!Now, you should be able to explain this! I would appreciate that.
What is meant by Mohattrama?
Why did Ali Bhutto is called a Shaheed? WHY, WHY!
Why should BB deserves that appellation?
Thanks
Kamath"}

Kamath Sahib,
You are much more generous than most people. :)
Mohtarma is the feminine form of Mohtaram meaning "The Honorable One." The word is of Arabic origin. ZAB is called "Shaheed" because his followers choose to call hiim that. Technically, a "Shaheed" meaning "Martyr" had to be killed in combat fighting the enemies of Islam. However, the martyrdom of Imam Hussein, at the hands of fellow Muslims, has allowed murder by any evil and cruel people in the cause of righteousness to be termed "Shahadat." Therefore, if Zia Ul Haq is considered evil, then his defiant victim, ZAB, can be called "Shaheed." Similarly, if the Islamic extremists or even Mushy can be termed evil, then the defiant BB can be called "Shaheed," or is it "Shaheeda?"

#12 viqarm {"This does not mean that the state will abandon the struggle against extremism. But there are many ways to skin a cat, and we need to find a way that is acceptable to our own people."}

Viqar Bhai,
Excellent point! Pakistanis have always circled the wagons when THEIR national interests have been at stake. I have heard that during the Indian attacks of '71 in West Pakistan, the crime rate actually dropped. Pakistanis have no desire to sacrifice for or support foreign interests - whether they be American, British, Saudi, or even Indian.

Also, the common people of Pakistan have to resolve not to listen to these false "prophets" of hatred and division and come together without blame, without recrimination, without ethnic bias. For this to happen, the tried and failed leadership (PPP, ML - N and Q, MMA, and MQM) has to dissolve and give way to a centrist, Pakistani party, with allegiance to ONLY Pakistan. We cannot have parties loyal to feudal lords, military oligarchs, provincial supremacists, religious extremists, or absentee mafioso. Time to form a new party, just like ZAB did in the late '60s.

Salim:
S.C"
I honestly believe you have a sane head on your shoulder!Now, you should be able to explain this! I would appreciate that.
What is meant by Mohattrama?
Why did Ali Bhutto is called a Shaheed? WHY, WHY!

Why should BB deserves that appellation?
Thanks
Kamath

Yep - it's gandhi and congress who did this to muslims, they introduced islam to muslims... Achut dude is right... They rejected J-MAN(pubh) - the most rational dude you can find anywhere anytime...

J-Man, thus rejected and kicked out, went on to found a secular party Muslim League - a party for liberalism and reform for muslims... and he created pakiland, the land of pure secularism and liberalism... but gandhi's ghost never let pakiland settle down - he always chased them with religion, he founded taliban and everything else...

Gandhi and congress - they are the evil ones... Pakiland will never be pure again... the dream of pure liberalism is lost forever...

Gandhi ghost even persuaded ZAB to declare YLH a non-muslim - he being ahmedi... that was the most evil of all evil things gandhi has ever done...

Gandhi Murdabad... Gandhi hai hai... Gandhi down down...

Chaltahai

Read this bit again and closely:

Achyuth Patwardhan, one of the Socialist stalwarts in the Congress, has given a remarkably candid and self critical analysis of the Congress Party vis-a-vis Khilafat: ’It is, however, useful to recognise our share of this error of misdirection. To begin with, I am convinced that looking back upon the course of development of the freedom movement, THE ’HIMALAYAN ERROR’ of Gandhiji’s leadership was the support he extended on behalf of the Congress and the Indian people to the Khilafat Movement at the end of the World War I. This has proved to be a disastrous error which has brought in its wake a series of harmful consequences. On merits, it was a thoroughly reactionary step. The Khilafat was totally unworthy of support of the Progressive Muslims. Kemel Pasha established this solid fact by abolition of the Khilafat. The abolition of the Khilafat was widely welcomed by enlightened Muslim opinion the world over and Kemel was an undoubted hero of all young Muslims straining against Imperialist domination. But apart from the fact that Khilafat was an unworthy reactionary cause, Mahatma Gandhi had to align himself with a sectarian revivalist Muslim Leadership of clerics and maulvis. He was thus unwittingly responsible for jettisoning sane, secular, modernist leadership among the Muslims of India and foisting upon the Indian Muslims a theocratic orthodoxy of the Maulvis. Maulana Mohammed Ali’s speeches read today appear strangely incoherent and out of tune with the spirit of secular political freedom. The Congress Movement which released the forces of religious liberalism and reform among the Hindus, and evoked a rational scientific outlook, placed the Muslims of India under the spell of orthodoxy and religious superstition by their support to the Khilafat leadership. Rationalist leaders like Jinnah were rebuffed by this attitude of Congress and Gandhi. This is the background of the psychological rift between Congress and the Muslim League’.

#10 Posted by chaltahai on January 4, 2008 7:53:20 pm

Chalta,

Get ur facts right. Pakistan was created for the Muslims of (British) India, NOT for the Muslims of South Asia.

Re: # 11

viqarm sahib,

I agree with u its supposed to be everyone's Pakistan, but that has not been the case and history bears the rude markings of political victimization of those opposed to the state sponsored indoctrination. Since the state assumed the religious dictates of Maududi and chose to disregard and re-engineer Jinnah one is forced to ask the question, what happened to Jinnah's Pakistan.