The Snow Will Melt

#2 Posted by Skeptical

... are unanimous that ill fated plane owed its ill fate to Pak army....
That we accidentally shot our own plane......

This is the theory believed inside PIA pilot circles as well ... though in hushed tones.

Re: # 38

Thanks Miss Dar,
Why must we think of categories? To think out of the box is supreme, the rest is indoctrination.
Peace

Re: # 37

Thanks Mr. Kapadia. When the time comes and you truly deserve it, I will defend you.

Peace.

Re: # 35

You said:
I thought most of the C130s are in the amry ‘s possession and not of PAF. Did the army refuse too?

I say:
Is there really a difference between the ownership?
Now only if grown men would call a spade--well, a spade!

You see, a man would readily murder another if the Prophet's name was involved in blasphemy, but if jokes were narrated about God, both would laugh together! Who deserves greater reverence?

Similarly, if two institutions decide that nobody has the right to ask--let alone criticise--them, then where will we wind up if the income tax, police and the customs demand the same privilege?

I'm hopeful about FuzAir, not worried now!

Peace

Quite moving. However I am not sure if it can be categorised as anything other than a personal reminisce. Not that there is anything wrong with that...

In criticizing Tahir for this moving piece. We are all forgetting that some of the people who died in that cockpit were his friends. I have visited the northern areas on occasion and flown to shangrila as well in a thrill ride of a plane flight. True i have never heard this story either... but that does not mean it cannot be true. Can we all just be a little more sensitive here??? Or should we always have to indulge in name calling and obscenities to get our point across!!

Please open yr minds...

Re: # 34
Mr fuzair may be you were having Hunza water while that theory was being narrated to you.....
The thing is my friend just because we do not believe the "Pak" army version of the story, does that mean that we think that it was a grand conspiracy!!!!!
Why relate to obnoxious kind of anologies like
Elvis being alive......
If some one doubts army's version it does not mean that they belong to that category of people who think that 9/11 was done by USA or 18th October blast by BB herself and everything is not what it seems group....
Pak army frankly has never been credible.....

#33 Posted by tahir

“4) The Air Force—having conducted only a hurried high altitude survey—had expressed its inability to spare C-130s or helicopters for a closer look. (the usual foot-dragging)"

This is not foot dragging. This sheer callousness. There were forty people on board and the PAF could not spare a C-130?

I thought most of the C130s are in the amry ‘s possession and not of PAF. Did the army refuse too?

Don’t worry about Fuzair. Whenever he hears something against the Pak army, his head turns Fuzzy. At that time people call him Fuzzy head. He is having his Fuzzy moments on your board. He would gain sanity if you discuss anything with him except the army…He is a true groupie!

OK, peace, salaam, shalom, etc.

Dear Skeptical,

I lived and worked in Gilgit for a while a loooooong time ago and memories fade but I do remember the Kashgar Inn and having their excellent Kashgari Palao and Mantos. I also remember going to the Serena in winter to watch movies and have dinner there. And watching polo at the Aga Khan Polo Ground. And driving from Gilgit to Pindi in summer and winter. And celebrating Nauroz with some excellent Hunza Water just south of Soust (blanking on the name now; near a a glacier and a small lake, IIRC). All this made a nice break from our normal routine. But, honestly, I do not remember the shot down plane theory.

Re: # 31

Skeptical dear, let FuzAir breathe!

Break it up boys! Kiss each other (no..no..not on the lips!) and move on!

Peace.

Re: # 28

Dear Fuzai-R,

These are the headlines:

1) It was not until the late afternoon that search and rescue operations commenced. (late lateefs as usual)

2) The Fokker, unintentionally or otherwise, flew off-course into the prohibited Indian airspace. (whatever the reason)

3) The Indians, having warned the Pakistanis not to commit airspace violations, shot the plane down. (who wanted another war?)

4) The Air Force—having conducted only a hurried high altitude survey—had expressed its inability to spare C-130s or helicopters for a closer look. (the usual foot-dragging)

5) A failed attempt to hijack the aircraft to India had resulted in an explosive scuffle on board. (remember the PanAm B747 commando action in Karachi in 1986?)

Please note that I never wrote that the Army or the PAF shot it down!

PIA is not perfect. Don't forget that 1988 Aloha Airlines Boeing 737 that looked like a convertible sports car when it landed after encountering multiple failures (top of the fuselage missing, people sucked out at 20,000').

Investigators and agencies are human too, and they tow the line once it is intentionally drawn for them. Remember Hans Blix (chief weapons' inspector in Iraq) who spoke the truth eventually?

To sum it up, B.B. lived and died knowing the truth of the matter.

Peace brother.

Re: # 29
Mr fuzair, I do not know why you have made it a matter of ego here.....
If you have really lived in Northern Area for any length of time you must have come across some thing....Frankly I doubt that besides visiting there once or twice you have actually lived there.....though u know that besides c 130 and foker, normal passenger aircrafts could not land there.....
By the way, the theory was never that PAF plane shot it...
It was the air defence system and its missile...(that is why I say that I doubt that u have even been there....)
Problem is that you think that it is "typical Pakistani" mentality of linking everything with a grand conspiracy....CIA, KGB blah blah....
You make fun of Tahir thinking that he suffers from same paranoia
Frankly dear...
he has a point......
I have even talked to army personnel who at that time were posted there....and the silence was deafening......
Frankly this is no "conspiracy theory" ...
when there is smoke-there is fire.....
That is all......

Re: # 28 One more violation of aviation code is that that all commercial passenger planes must be equipped with a blackbox. All blackboxes carry an electronic beacon that pin points the crash site.

So either PIA was in violation of this code, or not. If it wasn't then location of plane is deliberately kept hidden to avoid insurance costs. And if PIA was in violation then it was liable to pay what it was sued to pay.

Oh, I just remembered; wasn't there a Haji somebody or the other on the flight? Or was he an Ismaili? Owned a big shop in Gilgit Bazaar? Was involved in the NAs independence movement? That would explain why the plane had to be shot down! Case closed!

I only responded in kind to Mr. Tahir, just raising the bet, when he suggested I stop listening to drunkards and imbibe the truth directly from him. So, Mr. Tahir, you've never heard-of or seen PIA pilots do anything remotely unprofessional? Sticking to the Gilgit-Pindi route, nothing unprofessional of any sort has ever happened on that route? I think Urstruly has just shown that PIA deliberately violated international flight conventions.

In my time in the NAs, I never heard the story of the Army shooting down the Fokker. Has anyone actually looked at the PIA flight route and seen where on this route was there an Army unit that could have shot the plane down? Presumably it would have to be one equipped with Stingers or some other Manpad that would have to be the guilty party.

Or was the plane flying so low that a G3 or an LMG shot it down? In that case, why wasn't the wreckage found? Did the Army shoot an entire company of soldiers to cover up the crime? No one talked?

Did the PAF shoot it down? If so, which fighter? Surely there couldn't have been that many PAF planes in the air at the same time; they would have been easily accounted for. Couldn't have been shot down by accident since the pilot would have gotten a good visual on the plane and realized it was a Fokker and not and IAF spy plane.

The PIA flight route is a well known one. The plane's wreckage would have to be on the flight path somewhere. Unless of course the pilot went off the route to do some sightseeing and the wreckage is lying in some unmapped valley somewhere. I am sure there are people in the NAs who firmly believe that the Army shot the plane down; just as there are people in the US who believe that Elvis is alive in a Federal Witness Protection Program or abducted by space aliens.

Re: # 26

You've actually read the poem in prose my friend!

Mohtarma's lines and autograph deserve a better showcase than this 'where paths meet' site! I hate to disappoint you but I've thought long and hard over this.

Another time, another place perhaps...

Peace