US Conspiracy to Destablize Pakistan?

Re: # 483
Then you need to read some more history, read about the Age of Discovery, England, Portugal and Spain's maritime conquests etc. About the likes of Prince Henry the Navigator, Hernan Cortes, Pizarro, Francis Drake and the rest of the gang

Ans:- They were mostly within Europe and adjacent areas.

Dupleix and Vasco Da Gama...

Ans: Sorry. That is the reason, they have not succeded.

Re: # 484
Ignore the typos...

Re: # 478
Injuns were so incomepent....
Ans:
I will beg to differ little bit here.
Have the native American able to provide Evidence of large scale destruction like we Indians?
Konkan Region has large number of Temples destroyed by Portugese. Kashi, Mathura, Somnath, Hampi etc...has historical evidence of islamic barbarism. In Murshidabad/Maldah there is one mosque (I have forgot the name), in the inner wall of which,the partially destroyed face of Lakshmi and Ganesha is still there. Local people believe that, it was actually a temple.I am not aware of such destruction by European settlers in America? Please enlighten me.
I have seen one TV program, which shown, how muslims in Egypt, has destructed the surface of Pyramid (polished stone) to build mosque. If possible, I will provide more information in this regard.
My basic point is European settlers has created excellent academic/industrial/social infrastructure wherever they have gone, where as the islamic invaders has created the total anarchy, whereever they have settled their root. Egypt to Afghanistan. Places with great history, no current achievement.

Re: # 476
Do you know the diffrenece between Colonialism and colonisation?

Arif bhai

#480

Very true. And for once even Masadi sahib will agree with you.

In addition, North Am, parts of South Am and Australia were regions were thinly populated and were suitable for settlement by goras (Europe was overpopulated) so there was an incentive plus it was easy to clean out the local people either by force or thru accident (disease). By contrast Asia and Africa were not really suitable for gora habitat and there were far too many locals to exterminate.

I wud strongly recommend a book called "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond.

Nkg,

(From where Europeans will collect resource, if they need to backtrack? )

Why wud they need to backtrack if they are going to whup the locals anyway?

(As per my knowledge of Histroy, Navy was not extensively used by European Kingdoms for expansion beyond Europe and adjacent areas. )

Then you need to read some more history, read about the Age of Discovery, England, Portugal and Spain's maritime conquests etc. About the likes of Prince Henry the Navigator, Hernan Cortes, Pizarro, Francis Drake and the rest of the gang.

(It is people like Dupleix,Robert Clive, Vasco Da Gama etc..., who without any Govt. patronage helped to create colonies.)

Well when we speak about gora colonialism we are not really distinguishing between public sector and private sector conquests. And in any case both Dupleix and Vasco da Gama were both govt employees.

Regards

Re: # 478
Have ever British force invaded India, like Mughals?

Ans:I think, you know the history. British Govt. took over India from East India Company in 1857? They have not sent any soldier to invade India. East India company used to maintain small army for their own protection. Later that grew in number. East India Comany was not able to manage the army properly, so, after 1856 uprising, British Govt. took over from E I C. It was the circimstance, that made British rule over India.

Where does it say that invasion can happen only through land?

Ans:This is not documented, from common sense. You are sailing 1000s of miles to other land to fight with the locals, without a base there. From where Europeans will collect resource, if they need to backtrack? As per my knowledge of Histroy, Navy was not extensively used by European Kingdoms for expansion beyond Europe and adjacent areas. They were able to colonise large part of Asia and Africa, mostly due to administrative failure or weak society in those places.It was the fortune seekers and traders, which had created large european colony outside Europe. It is people like Dupleix,Robert Clive, Vasco Da Gama etc..., who without any Govt. patronage helped to create colonies.

Where does it say that invasion can happen only through land?

This is not documented, from common sense. You are sailing 1000s of miles to other land to fight with the locals, without a base there. From where Europeans will collect resource, if they need to backtrack? As per my knowledge of Histroy, Navy was not extensively used by European Kingdoms for expansion beyond Europe and adjacent areas. They were able to colonise large part of Asia and Africa, mostly due to administrative failure or weak society in those places.It was the fortune seekers and traders, which had created large european colony outside Europe. It is people like Dupleix,Robert Clive, Vasco Da Gama etc..., who without any Govt. patronage helped to create colonies.

Re: # 474

Maj sahib

With all due respect to our European folks, they actually have a unparrelled track record in extermination, genocidal wars or social, political, economic subjugation.

Some examples of their exterminations:

1. North America-indegenous Indian (red) population
2. South America-Mayan population
3. Australia-Abrogini's
4. Jews-WWII
5. Muslims of Chechnya by Stalin

These are the most obvious examples that history has documented, one reason for these races being completly marginalized or decimated was their small population numbers, where Europeans encountered large population bases they chose too rule by forced conversion or economic and military domination. Classic examples are the Asian and African continents that were divied amongst the seafaring European nations.

Probably the biggest loss to human race has been the cultural invasion and perversion. This has happened in all continents wherever the invading forces landed they have been the reason why cultural diversity was replaced with European/Christian culture.

Mohammadens can also be blamed for the same when they invaded and occupied foreign territories imposing their religious and social customs on local inhabitants. But, compared to the Europeans/Christians, Mozlems can never come close to their brutal decimation of different cultures and populations.

WWI and WWII started by Europeans/Christians caused death and destruction of 70MM and more, no other race can ever come close to those numbers in terms of brutality and more importantly no other race has the same capacity to inflict damage when compared to the giant European/Christian powers.

Re: # 478

Maj

Me think this nkg guy is either trying to pull a fast one Or, is mentally challenged.

Nkg,

Re: 477

I hope this post was not made to pull my leg. But if it wasnt here's m2c.

(In, those days, you can not transport large number of troups by sea route.)

But the Injuns were so incompetent that you didnt huge numbers, a few hundred well-trained and well-armed soldiers were enuff for the Injuns, as it is were the American Injuns.

(Most of the European colonies were established through sea route. That proves that, these areas were not invaded.)

Where does it say that invasion can happen only through land? I will be interested in the source.

(Have ever British force invaded India, like Mughals? )

So how did India end up becoming a British colony, quite curious to know?

Hoping for a prompt response.

Regards

Re: # 474
#472 and #476..
Mr. Majumdar, you seems to be Bengali...Please read "Anandamath" and analysis of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1770
In, those days, you can not transport large number of troups by sea route. Most of the European colonies were established through sea route. That proves that, these areas were not invaded. Have ever British force invaded India, like Mughals?

Re: # 473
I have provided reason and references...Please argue with logic...If the Arab invaders have to settle in India, they need skill to survive here, which they did not have...This is fact...
What muslims have achieved in Egypt,Sudan, Iran etc... has failed in India. North Africa and part of Middle east has glorious past. After the advent of Islam, it has started declining and now the most notorious place on earth.
The present advanced society in entire North America is built by the European settlers. What is contribution of the native Americans in the current industrial and academic excellence in USA and Canada? India has lost a lot from islamic invastion. Entire eductaion system was destroyed by the muslim invaders. India's share of world GDP had started declining from that period. Whereas people flock to North America due to the institutions and opportunites the settlers have created for the entire world.

Please, stop comparing europeans of 17th century to arabs of 10th/11th century...

The Eurpean colonies are the most advanced states (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ etc...) and the Arab colonies are the most backward areas on earth (Egypt, Sudan etc...), with a great history of civilization.

Masadi sahib,

(comparison of Arab and European colonization )

European colonization did not always involve extermination (or nearly so) of locals. It did so in North America and Australia but not so in Lat Am (slavery), Asia (economic exploitation) or Africa (slave trade/economic exploitation).

Agreed that Arab Imperialism maybe never decimated the entire population of locals but it did bring about large scale cultural genocide. And of course in many countries like Pakistan locals are ashamed of admitting that they are of local descent and start inventing mythical ancestors (from Iraq for eg).

Regards

#472, unless you don't know how to read, why were the Hindus a majority and not a minority at the time of partition if the "Muslims" had done to them what the European settlers did to the Native Americans? Comprendey or should I get a fourth grader to explain this to you...bigot.

If the "Muslims" had done to India what the European settlers did to North America, Hindus would have been a minority of a minority like the Native Americans, not in any Arab conquered lands unlike European dominated settler areas

Ans:- Muslim invaders were inferior in all walks of life except brutality. If Islam spread, who will run the administration? Who will keep the civilisation alive (nice example- Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan toppers in falied state index in contrast with India)? Moslems had no good social structure. That was the reason, they have to loot/rob others and survive. A good, self sustaining society does not adopt such methods. The establishment of European colony in India was mostly due to the anarchy created by the moslem rulers in India. The civil structure was almost destroyed. The local people of Bengal thus asked the East India Company to remove barbaric moslems from the helm of affairs. East India Company had come to India with the purpose of trade. Situation forced them to take reign of Bengal. A prosporous state, thanks to the moslems, witnessed famine for the first time in history of 2500 years. Please read "Anandamath" by Bankim Chandra Chattyopadhyay. Nice social documentary of how British traders were transformed into rulers. So, it was not the kindness of the moslems. When European people settled in America, they were at the peak of their progress. European settlers has not learned any skill from the native people. They had all kinds of skills to rule the land and keep the civilisation alive. They have only used the local resources.
A nice example of islamic skill is demonstrated in Afghanistan. They are definitely providing enough resistance to the NATO forces. But, when comes to organising Asian Games in Doha, most of skilled workers were brought from the Europe, India and other countries.