US Conspiracy to Destablize Pakistan?

Pirzada mian,

It is not the US trying to destabilize pakistan, it is the conflict of civilisations and the battle ground is pakistan.

The epitome of technological western civilisation and its dominance over the others is the bomb. The bomb can only be controlled by a society that subscribe to the western values, read democracy. That is why the US sent Benzir, that is why they eant democracy in pakistan.

At present pakistan is in a jihadic grip, and what you see there taking place is teh clash of civilisations.

There can be two solutions.

One is pakistan will be denuked, that is looking more likely.

The other is jihadis will be wiped out, that is unlikely, there more than 5 million madrassa products, the pak army is infested.

I put my bet on denuking of pakistan.

Importance of pakistan,

At present the only global interest in pakistan is due to the bomb, and it falling into jihadic hands.

The pakistanis can cry from every roof top to let them be alone, for the americans to leave them alone. No one will listen simply because of the bomb. Now with the routing of the military in Swat, military will get increased support, the so called democracy will be sham, military will become more powerful.

The only option for pakistan are

...the North korean option which is looking more likely. Food shortage..fuel shortage..declining income..crime..

Then there is the Libiyan option..very unlikely because pakistan has already move along the north korean path.

Energy crisis, declining exports..declining industrial production due to electrcity shortage....

May be ZAB was right, he missied the sequence..first pakistan will have teh bomb,,due to which they will eat grass.

Thanks dost-mitter for reminding this

#97 Posted by jayp,

One must make a distinction between the Jihadis who have a global agenda, and those who have a domestic agenda. The former are the Arab/Turkic fighters (aka Al-Qaida for you - Egyptians, Moroccans, Algerians, Saudis, Uzbeks), and the latter Taliban (whether Afghan or Pakistani). There's nothing common between these two except logistical support in the face of immense military pressure.

If you don't know the difference between the two, you should be on FOX TV or for dinner at hamidm2's house.

Re: # 89

d_m

The so-called Indian obsession was manufactured by the power elite to support and sustain their monoply over ideology, politics, economics and the use of violence. We allowed East Pakistan to fade way into history with no remorse or accountability simply under the much hyped Indian hyperbole. I agree, enough is enough, Pakistanis need to move forward, but how? Another re-engineering of ideologies? How can we expect any change when the same coterie of power remains comfortably placed to manipulate and direct. Pakistan needs something more than just a change of slogans, or change of guards. Pakistan needs rule of law, independence of executive and judiciary, more provincial autonomy and some serious yet honest assessment of the future relationships between provnices.

Re: # 97
jayp,

There is a third option, redraw the map.

Companies stuck with their obsolete ideas of management are either taken over or end up applying for bankruptcy protection. Whatever the case maybe, in most of the cases, these companies are broken up into separate units and sold to generate cash. Point being, sometimes companies are worth more as separate entities.

The same analogy can be applied to a country like Pakistan, a country with much promised growth potential, right asset base, receieved many cash injections, different styles of management were tried but nothing seems to work. Instead of adding value, this company has been a destroyer of capital. Assuming confidence reaches to the point of no return, then dissolution may just be the only remedy.

Zee Bhaiya,

Actuallu it should be Anuj or Tambi (for younger brother). Here is my do anna worth.
When a committed Hindutwavadi like me (who is not anti muslim but avowedly anti islamic) can have a lot of affection for you based on a common Punjabi ethnicity and can feel th apin for fellow Punjabis killed on May 12 despite Sheikhupura, Mianwali, Rawalpindi and Jhelum in 1947
then what is this talk of anti Pak hostility endengered by India. If we take a small example of the number of abducted Hindu/Sikh women returned by Pak in 47 as comapred to Muslim women returned by India would give yuou a very good idea of who was the aggressor.

Your idea of history is foundation stone of Pak in AD 711 till 1857 then a ceaseless struggle for eatablishing a Muslim state in India for 90 yrs culminating in Pak in 1947.

Grow up. We may have been decieved by that mutar fakeer Madardas Gandhu in 47 not anymore. The day you will face Narendrabhai in Delhi tum logon ko apne mard hone ki khush fehmi door ho jaige.

Written with love not hatred.

Regards
Sanatani

Your thr8 is Salim Chauhan and the Muhajirs not this descendant of Punabi Sharanarthis and believe me the fact that men of distant provinces of India in the South Potti Srimalu and Pittabhai Sitaramayya from Andhra, Morarji Bhai (Nishan-e-Pakistan)of Gujarat and BP Chahila of Asom were so vehement in their denounciation of anybody who would call us a refugee that a lot of sting was taken out of the holocaust of partition.

#102 Posted by Sanatani,

Sanatani Bhra,

I share your sentiments, even though you are 'ant-Islamic'.

But instead of venting your anger at me (I was talking about neighbours) you should read #101. This guy is talking about 'Jinnahpur'.

Will you help him make one?

Re: # 103

{Sanatani Bhra,

I share your sentiments, even though you are 'ant-Islamic'.

But instead of venting your anger at me (I was talking about neighbours) you should read #101. This guy is talking about 'Jinnahpur'.}

Just another example of pure Punjabi chauvinism that can transcend and cut through religious lines. Nothing wrong with that concept, but becomes filthy when it is either camouflaged in the name of religion or presented by this hypocrite.

Re: # 95

Zeemax sahib:

"...Ignore them. They don't count in the global games being played. ..."

This is the most accurate statement on this board.

Instability in Pakistan has historically come from living beyond its means and having ambitions which cannot be sustained. Consequently, Pakistan has constantly experimented. It failed to define its growth poles and basis of a strong identity that went beyond religion.

Pakistan's history can be summarized in three phases: (i) there was a period when the Civilian government exploited religion, (ii) later Military government exploited it, and now (iii) it is being exploited by people whom you would not let you be ruled, under normal circumstances.

Your support is on the ground of "my enemy's enemy is my friend". This only maligns the religion you admire the most. Unfortunately, this alliance of conveniencce is no different than other alliances that previous Civilian and Military governments formed. It opens a trap drop that only sucks your religion more, which in turns makes you angry more and more.

This process then brings the most passionates of the religionists out from all sides. And today's Pakistan suddenly looks as the most favorite battleground for the most passionates.

Not only hindoos have no place, your religion has no place either in it either. Sooner the thinking is revised and energies reapplied from being angry, to preventing all who drag your religion, the better you will be.

Above all, only then real issues will come out of the religious cloud to deal with. Till then you, through making religion the issue through people whom you would not let you rule, are a pawn controlled by those whom you perceive as the enemy. More talk of religion only plays in your perceived enemy hands.

Re: # 89 Dost-Mittar

"...Though said in jest, your comment shows that Pakistanis have not yet realised that their obsession with "fighting Indians" is the root cause of the mess that Pakistan is in now..."

Dost Mamaji:

Why waste your precious breath by stating the obvious to the obdurate? Why not, instead, take faith in the principle of self-accountability? Let me explain: Let the Pakis do what the want because, ultimately, they are accountable to themselves. They can't hurt India. Despite going blue in the face and spiting themselves, they have not been able to stop double-digit growth rates! Let the party go on.

The wise sage of Omaha, Warren Buffet, once said: It is only when the tide goes out do you find out who is swimming naked. Well, the tide has been ebbing for Pakistan for a long time. The first time they were caught swimming naked was on December 16, 1971. The ebbing tide has gathered pace in recent years.

So, why waste your precious breath?

al-lah's warriors

DERA ISMAIL KHAN: Security officials in the NWFP said on Saturday they had arrested a teenager allegedly involved in last month’s assassination of former premier Benazir Bhutto, reported AP.

Aitezaz Shah, 15, told investigators that he had been part of a five-man squad deployed that day in Rawalpindi, a senior intelligence official, asking not to be named, said.

....... and guess what ? ... the lal masjid ninja chicks with sticks who were allowed to walk out of there are breeding more of these demonic warriors .....

#105 Posted by anil,

Anil Saheb, first of all, without going into the other stuff ... I do not believe anyone exploited Islam for their own ends ... ever. If anyone tried, they didn't succeed. So we have a no-starter here.

Re my statement "...Ignore them. They don't count in the global games being played. ..." It is indeed accurate. As I said, these are just field mice being trampled in a battle of elephants.

No contempt meant by the above of-course. It is just that India or Hindus have never been global players on their own unless they were ruled by either the Muslims or the Brits.

Re "Your support is on the ground of "my enemy's enemy is my friend", I guess you mean my exchange with Sanatani.

My friend, I like Sanatani because he is 'honest', not because he may be a Punjabi or anything else. I believe he is the only hindu on these boards who argues his enmity without insults and needless jokes upon his opponents as other Indians do. I respect that.

A wise enemy is better than a foolish friend anytime.

Re: # 108

zeemax,

.... i don't know what you mean by the horrible hindoos not being 'global players' .... as far as the business world is concerned they seem to to be everywhere - you can't turn a corner in a corporate corridor in detroit without bumping into a head wagger carrying auto parts in his dhoti ...... and let's not even talk about it - most companys specify a 60+% hindoo content in their rfq's ..... the smell of curry is stinking up the cafeterias at chrysler, ford and gm and you see civilized white people eating with their fingers like a bunch of heathens ...... and if that wasn't bad enough, i recently checked out yoga classes to see if i could communicate with grandpa gopinath and found the class full of masadi's us elite ...

...... but there is good news for our people too - we haven't had anyone charged with trying to blow up the gm building in the last six months ...........

zee

you keep saying "indians never were global players"... that's not true... Indians were playing the "globe" when bedouins were still swinging from the tree, so to speak...

Entire south-east asia was under indian influence, which is why the area is also known as indo-china... and the largest country there is called indonesia - it still has wide indian cultural influence, even though recent islamic surge is spreading now. The largest temple ever built is actually in cambodia.

PS: But that's really ancient history...

if you look at the current events, indian presence is spreading fast, particularly in the business world. But yes, in political world, india is not playing big, but that may be a matter of time...

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