Shahjahan’s “Moorti” and Other Absurdities in Agra

#214: anil: Like I said, "rednecks" are fine, hard-working Americans whom desi immigrants stereotype as part of the general negative-ness that is part of desi culture. They could teach plenty of desis on chowk a lesson in civilized behavior.

comparing - masadi, the classic desi who comes to chowk to spread his misery and smelly, negative fumes emanating from him - is totally unfair to these fine Americans. So, either tell me honestly if you have ever met a red neck who has been discourteous to you in any way, exhibited racism of the kind that "fair skin" conscious indians and pakistanis exhibit on chowk.

If not, please dont compare masadi to any group of people - rednecks, whitenecks, brownnecks, blacknecks, or any other kind of necks. You should try to stay above this kind of stereotyping of any group of people - you are too smart for that, so leave that to the dimwits on chowk. Hold this loser masadi alone responsible for his lies and hypocrisy on chowk.

Re: # 211

Massaddi Mian:

If I were a Muslim, I would have wanted Islamic Red Necks like you to be impeached and tried.

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#211 Posted by masadi on January 26, 2008 2:43:05 pm

if it helps, I think Zinn sucks too...

tahmed writes "...rubbish like claiming that scientific progress has not benefitted anyone other than the "elite".

There is absolutely no rubbish in that whatsoever, my posts gave ample reasons to back my claims, you just need to look at the uses of "science" in the world today, the sector they are concentrated in i.e. the military that is concerned with destroying and not preserving humanity, and the fact that the condition of the world and its deprivation proves that the so-called enlightenment hope that science would end all of this suffering has proven to be false because it is being misuesd by the elite. You cannot even approach the depth of my thought, throwing out slogans does absolutely nothing to absolve either your dimwitted intellect or the barbarism of your masters...People here aren't fools not to recongnize the fact that you rise up to defend any and every barbarity of the US elite around the globe and deliberately try to mask their interference when it is clear as day, in our affairs and then have the audacity to lie saying you have no problems with what Zinn says when his criticism of this system is almost 100% identical to mine......The only difference is that unlike me he happens to be white and you worship the white man and his shit....

tahmed, you miserable snake come up with some substance and not your usual bs. Zinn considers the so called "city on a hill" and "manifest destiny" to be barbarian anti-people concepts, you support both of those concepts including colonization by the British, you support the wars conducted by the US post WW2, Zinn condemns them., you worship US capitalism, Zinn detests it, you call this system of barbarism "egalitarian and enlightened", Zinn considers it a farce that the people have to continually struggle against. You, super retard are the fool who is a hypocrite. I am not hiding behind any names, my analysis of the Iraq war, intellectually, factually as well as source wise, especially since it linked it to the global structure was much superior to anything Zinn came up with and he acknowledged that much himself. You are dealing with no novice here fool, I don't need to hide behind any names... now go ___ yourself.

Re: # 206

Massaddi Mian:

"...Some Howard Zinn for you:..."

You are no Howard Zinn. You are an Islamic Red Neck. Please do not, do not, hide behind Howard Zinn. Every second word red-neck use is a swear word. You are a confirmed Islamic Red Neck.

You disgrace the beauty of Islam. I do not know why others tolerate an Islamic red-neck among them.

Re: # 206

Massaddi Mian:

You are an Islamic-Red Neck, and HP Mian is your running dog. You write filth about Amin Agha and HP Mian laughs.

Please do not try to hide behind Mills and Zinn. You are naked.

#206 masadi: being the hypocrite that you are, you present Zinn's statement ignoring the fact that I have no problem with what Zinn says.

It is you and your lies and hypocrisy that makes you a scoundrel who is responsible for spreading lies about the US that I have a problem with.

So, like Anil says, dont try to hide behind Zinn, you coward. It is your rubbish that I have a problem with - rubbish like claiming that scientific progress has not benefitted anyone other than the "elite".

Some Howard Zinn for you:

"The treatment of heroes (Columbus) and their victims (the Arawaks) the quiet acceptance of conquest and murder in the name of progress-is only one aspect of a certain approach to history, in which the past is told from the point of view of governments, conquerors, diplomats, leaders. It is as if they, like Columbus, deserve universal acceptance, as if they-the Founding Fathers, Jackson, Lincoln, Wilson, Roosevelt, Kennedy, the leading members of Congress, the famous Justices of the Supreme Court-represent the nation as a whole. The pretense is that there really is such a thing as "the United States," subject to occasional conflicts and quarrels, but fundamentally a community of people with common interests. It is as if there really is a "national interest" represented in the Constitution, in territorial expansion, in the laws passed by Congress, the decisions of the courts, the development of capitalism, the culture of education and the mass media.
"History is the memory of states," wrote Henry Kissinger in his first book, A World Restored, in which he proceeded to tell the history of nineteenth-century Europe from the viewpoint of the leaders of Austria and England, ignoring the millions who suffered from those states men's policies. From his standpoint, the "peace" that Europe had before the French Revolution was "restored" by the diplomacy of a few national leaders.
But for factory workers in England, farmers in France, colored people in Asia and Africa, women and children everywhere except in the upper classes, it was a world of conquest, violence, hunger, exploitation-a world not restored but disintegrated.

----------------------

As you can tell he calls BS on the history written by the elite, the so-called founding fathers and the other "heroes", and rather presents the voices of the people as the "real history". Something that is totally alien to tahmed and his unconditional worship and support of the white elite and their shit.

Anil shut up the day you can approach me in making a well reasoned post, that will be the day we can discuss, until then, go __ yourself.

Re: # 204

Massaddi Mian:

You are an Islamic-Red Neck.

Please do not try to hide behind Mills and Zinn. You are naked, and not even an Empror without Clothes. So do not delude. Read what I wrote to you, and if you have courage to be honest and truthful, and can answer poitwise without hurling swear words and filth, please respond also.

tahmed writes " Zinn is a serious historian and his "People's History of the United States", which I am in the middle of reading is clearly fact based and well balanced.

Masadi on the other is a joke with ambitions of being an intellectual "

Zinn was totally anti Iraq war unlike this sorry excuse for a human being tahmed, who was cheerleading for the US invasion forces, even as he used British colonization to "prove" how beneficial it would be. Regarding my book the main theme of which in the start was the Iraq war, Zinn himself acknowledged that it was thoroughly fact based and extremely impressive, an accomplishment that I should be "proud of". That says quite a bit about how highly he valued that writing. He is an out and out socialist who is extremely critical of the role played by the elites in the US right from the landing in North America of the white man to the drawing up of the US constitution to nearly every aspect of the barbarous history of this country. He upholds and respects the people's struggles, as I do, in the history of the US, struggles that were brutally beaten back by an undemocratic system of governance that Zinn criticizes as being totally undemocratic to date....as far as scholarship goes though he cannot hold a light to C. Wright Mills and he knows it....

tahmed writes "I have seen rednecks and dealt with them - and they are more respectful, well-mannered, honest and well-meaning than most desi babus"

Like I have maintained this person worships the "white man and his shit" and rednecks are that "shit" that he worships. He says he has dealt with them as if that is some kind of proof! THese so called "respectful, well mannered" red necks have been lynching African Americans all through the history of this nation, they are out and out retarded as far as intellect goes and total bigots and racists. No desi, even the one begging on the streets in Pakistan will behave in such an ignorant, retarded and downright indecent manner as most rednecks do, just a few days back a couple of these redneck shits were indicted for driving around civil rights marches with nooses (depicting lynching) hanging on the back side of their trucks, they are found in large numbers these redneck shits in the law enforcement i.e police in the US and do unmentioned brutality with people of color and this swine tahmed says they are "well mannered and honest". I hope he gets a chance to REALLY interact with a redneck and then he can share his experience with us if his hand/brain coordination is still intact. I hope and pray to God he has this "interaction" with a redneck that he is so boasting about....

Re: # 199

Tahmed Sahib:

I am in tune with you regarrding invaders. I regard them as agent of change. It is futile to try to eliminate the role invaders play, and continue to play. Not all consequences of their acts are bad. So why the bad actions should be justified or shoved under the rug. That is my issue.

In modern days Knowledge Workers are invading and transforming societies too. My gripe is when a certain group takes it as a dogma about certain "invaders", and refuse to complete picture in their minds before jumping into conclusions.

The fusion created by Muslim arrival (=invasion) and British arrival created what India is today. I am certain most fundamentalist of the hindus realizes he is better off with these infusions. The hatred in their mind blocks them, and their responses are predictable. These arrivals of the past were on foot. New arrival is of technology and is not necessarily on foot. It is creating even newer fusion. This process of change and assimilation is what creates better societies.

#191 Anil
This is not a chauvinistic call in response to the self-proclaimed gravitas of ‘philosopher’ who seems to be anything but …

It seems Muslim or British invaders got upper hand initially by brute force than later by humiliating our ancestors culturally.

Though we also benefited a little bit culturally but they could manipulate and pillage our resources. We can be proud of Taj Mahal today but it is also a monument to what we lost in Nalanda, Takshila.. and thousands of labour who may have lost their lives in building such monuments. Unfortunately brute force is still always accepted as argument whether it is Bush or Maulvis who wield it. Islamic conquests or British colonialism were not only military victories. Astute and machiavellian planners always followed brutes. People like Al Baruni prepared action plan for Muslim rulers. While Macauley’s education has taught us to relegate Hindi and Urdu to less intellectual discourses. Please sample Lord Macaulay’s address to the British Parliament February 2, 1835

“I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation.”

For the military genius of Mohammed, there are many who tried to consolidate militarily won victories by civil codes. In recent times, we have Napoleon, who is said to have written French civil code in the nights while fighting the battles during the day. Mohammed had to invent winged creature, God’s word etc.. to compensate weak executive in vast desert conditions. Islam’s present day attraction probably resides in its simple and easily understandable reward scheme.

anil: and one more thing about "rednecks". I have seen rednecks and dealt with them - and they are more respectful, well-mannered, honest and well-meaning than most desi babus I have seen on chowk. Another proof that college education does not make up for lack of basic training as a child.

So dont insult rednecks by comparing half-brains like masadi and laddu (who at least is seems to be a friendly fellow who is misled by his hindutva ideology) to them.

anil: Zinn is a serious historian and his "People's History of the United States", which I am in the middle of reading is clearly fact based and well balanced.

Masadi on the other is a joke with ambitions of being an intellectual who lies and twists facts to back his stupid conclusions. So, dont lump the two simply because Masadi keeps dropping Zinn's name as if the latter would ever ascribe to Masadi's stupid rantings.

While you are right in replacing "european invaders" with "islamic invaders", I would encourage you to take the next logical step and recognize that hindus in india are themselves descendants of invaders!! The fact is that human history has been no less vicious than the bloody attacks of predators and prey among the "lower animals".

So - when India can produce a Zinn who can write objectively about hinduism in India, or when Pakistan can produce a Zinn who can write objective about muslims in India, that will be the day the subcontinent will be where the US is today in terms of objectivity.

PS: You wrote "Muslims invaders came, and in India they built Islam’s largest and richest Empire. " That is not true. The Ottoman Empire was a far richer and far more extensive empire than India. The mughal empire was chicken-sht compared to the ottomans - and the mughal emperor in fact paid nominal allegiance to the ottomans as the Caliphs, and mughals were never seen as being anything more than a peripheral and irrelevant kingdom in Islam's vast range!! The mughals seem like big fish to Indians because Indians live in a small pond (mentally speaking) and have and overinflated sense of their own importance in the world.

Re: # 197 masanamuthu

''US elite's contribution, many people would argue was in creating a just order, in which everyone gets a good overall deal
(invention of aeroplanes / internet / various drugs to cure, prevent, and eradicate diseases)''

masana..you forgot to mention gao-muttar that you take to cure, prevent and eradicate all kinda spirtual and physical diseases...why don't you introduce gao-muttar's energy to the US elite in order to get nuclear energy deal done?

Gao knows best.

Eklavya:

Islam's contribution, masadi ji might argue, was in creating a just order, in which Hindus got a good overall deal by paying jazia to Muslims. Hindus also benefitted from the just and enlightened (not Musharraf 'enlightened') order that Islam created for everyone - Muslims and non-Muslims, and that did not exist before.


US elite's contribution, many people would argue was in creating a just order, in which everyone gets a good overall deal (invention of aeroplanes / internet / various drugs to cure, prevent, and eradicate diseases) by paying respect and being obedient to the US elite. Muslims also benefitted from the just and enlightened order that Us created for everyone - Muslims and non-Muslims, and they did not exist before.

I was just exposing the hypocrisy of such people who rail day in day against "US imperialism", but fail to do the same when cornered with the examples from "arab / islamic imperialism". They even go to the extent of defending "jaziya".

Re: # 195 kaal ji

thanx..i have been terribly busy with my research papers.

who says its a pretentious nick..if it means what you said than you rightly deserve this nick(especialy after losing 'confidence' on your ability to know everything). kaal ji one who looses that confidence gains the confidence of others...no need to mention Socrates.

you have got my and zee's confidence.

cheers

Philopher, where have you been, Sir? We ought to be telling you - YOU have been missed!

----------

philo brother, kaalchakra is too pretentious a nick. It creates a certain hubris that one is capable of understanding everything - which, of course, is ridiculous.

But who knows, if I regain my confidence, kaalchakra might return, as my friend zee has already commanded. So thanks. :)

Re: # 193 kaal ji

plz switch back to your origical ID Kaalchakra.. i would love to see kaalchakra on the sidebar once again..missing kaalchakra there.

nb, neither masadi ji is nor I am implying any such thing.

masan, the argument is at the systemic level. Islam's contribution, masadi ji might argue, was in creating a just order, in which Hindus got a good overall deal by paying jazia to Muslims. Hindus also benefitted from the just and enlightened (not Musharraf 'enlightened') order that Islam created for everyone - Muslims and non-Muslims, and that did not exist before.

Many Muslims would agree with that view. Were I a believer, I, most likely, would.

Ekalavya,

I have no high expectations either. I'm not talking about my religion / god(s) is better than your religion / God. It is from a logical perspective.

that the spread of Islam was anything but good for both Muslims and non-Muslims.

yeah, this is the most amusing part. :-) I can understand that the spread of Islam was good for the Muslims, but to expect non-Muslims to believe "jaziya" was a good thing, that too from a "self proclaimed intellectual" is taking the comedy too far. don't you think so?.

Re: # 172

Massaddi Mian:

Please read my lines very carefully one more time, I am reproducing it here.

"... Colonialism is colonialism, Imperialism is Imperialism. Muslim invasions were no better...."

"... Or as Chinese used to call Running Dogs of Islamic Imperialism, if you were living in those times..."

To illustrate my point, I replaced “Soviet Social Republic” with Islamic to reflect a status of someone from the sub continent.

Yes Muslim sultanates and caliphates once built would be called Imperial. By then they were imperial and needed to rule locals, especially India. I will leave elsewhere out.

You must notice that I did not call Muslim invaders as Imperialist or colonists. After they conquered, their conquests culminated in bigger and better Empire in India. They also looted and took wealth back to their own native lands.

Why do you have problem acknowledging it, and why you start calling others bigots and hurl abuses? Moti Masjid in Chandani Chowk, Delhi, right next to Sisganj Gurudawara is a place Nadir Shah had ordered Katle-Aam. Sisganj Gurudwara is a place where Sikh Guru’s sons were beheaded. I grew up walking under both of them. I am convinced that such hatred is not needed, and I have fought such hatred with as much vengeance as you propound your ideology. You have to be a bigot not to acknowledge these historical facts.

I do not suffer from your or HP Mian’s myopia. Please read history without colored glasses, if you can and question it vigorously. It is only historians’ perspective written there; after all it is not Quran that you cannot question.

I believe Islam enriched India, but that does not take away the fact that there were killings. No one is asking you to apologize for those killings. Mughal Empire was built in India. Urdu was developed in India. Beautiful buildings are in India.

Your contradiction is clear; you claim to believe in Howard Zinn, why then you cannot see contribution of native Indians in the building of Mughal Empire, and making it an Indigenous empire. I have read your quotes about Arabic (or sorry Muslim for convenience) scientists. Do you really believe that Muslim invaders, entirely by themselves, built this empire? Do you know more Hindus fought in 1857 than Muslims? After all Mughal Empire was the largest and richest Muslim Empire.

I really thought that you have something refreshing and new to offer, and therefore I tried to engage in a dialog with you. You are an Islamic Red-Neck, nothing else. You simply find a cover in Mills and Zinn for your convenience. You interchange between Muslim and Arab to suit your belief. Islamic red-neck title is yours. You cannot see that you can call Muslim invaders as Arab invaders for convenience, and argue on Jiziya, you are playing smoke and mirror game.

To an observer like me, it is a remarkable system of incentives that Muslims put in place to bring wealth, rich and powerful people under its fold, in addition to their threats from the sword. Ask any business professor, if he / she can get away with such discriminatory taxation to increase it customer base, would he / she do it? I have just finished reading a book on Mohammad as one of the finest generals of all time. Amazing skills this person showed, no wonder his people followed him. I know you will hate that Vietnamese Gen. Giap is also put in the same category of great generals by this American Professor of Military Science. Mohammad was the first elite of Islam. Why can you not accept it and get rid of your bigotry about the U.S. Elite. You also demonstrate your bigotry when you tolerate Muslim invaders and their killing sprees, and then go on to challenge and rile up Muslims as not being Muslims to not see killings of American Indians. Such a cheap and bigoted action, why can you not see it?

You must be a complete ignorant to even think of Muslim Colonialism to put down your adversary in debate, or a hopeless debater.

Colonialism came to be identified contemporaneous to Marx. Muslim invaders happen long before that, in fact Islamic power had started to decline when Colonialism started. As you have coined this term, I can only assume that you do not know the definition of Colonialism and Imperialism. Earlier you have claimed a mastery of Economics also.

You and HP Mian think that just shouting others ignorant you have won your point. Your prophet’s adversary must have won such arguments millions of time, only to be surprised later. What two of you think baffles me?

To expand your understanding of colonialism, let me say that India was not a colony. Muslims invaders came, and in India they built Islam’s largest and richest Empire. The wealth was not something they brought from outside. It was generated in India, war were fought in India. The Brits came to trade and ended up building the Crown Jewel of their Empire. India was a prized possession. The wealth was again generated in India. Brits did not bring from the outside. India was among the biggest holders of sterling debt of Great Britain, when the Brits left India to finance the war. Smart Brits used Indians as the fodder, use resources and guess what paid back by supplying goods and services on which they made money too. What do you call it? I call it smart business.

Victoria was Queen of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and Empress of India. Australia was colonized, Americas were colonized. Can you now understand the difference? There is more to it in classical definition of Colonialism as given by Marx.

I have read your and HP Mian’s posts regarding me. That man can only call decent people all kinds of names including, Mother Burner and Ganesh Mutant and pray those decent people will get scared and run away. In his third or fourth post on Amin Agha’s board, he has already started calling “Criminals and their supporters like Provo.” Please read how he tried to scare me, on his thread on Unplug. I never insult or swear at anyone. Let me let you about me. I do not believe in any religion. If you have read me here, you are familiar with my belief system. I respect others religious beliefs. Although, I do strongly believe that these beliefs should not have any role outside of an individual’s mind space (not even in personal space). Anything that has wider impact beyond an individual’s mind should not be called a religion. Separation is essential. I was against Lal Masjid attack, I am against caste system. I am for empowerment of girl child, education, market economy, and entrepreneurship. I do not see any wrong if the education is religiously slanted to reflect the society. Few good minds and people will always come out; and system should catch those who become criminals. I cannot forget the interview of Lal Masjid students by a Pakistani-American woman on Chowk a while back. She narrated her discussions with a girl student who was sharp as a whip with her answers and counterpoints. I would never deny education to such a beautiful mind; even if she was talking something I would have totally disagreed. How she turns out, to me is a personal choice.

Massaddi Mian this is called pluralism, learn it and spread it among your students. A friend of mine told me that if you want to destroy a group of people, take education away from them for two generations. You claim to be a professor, yet you cannot see what is coming to your part of the world in terms of deprivation of education due to conflicts. Palestinian kids have faced education deprivation for two generations, suicide bombers are born. Unfortunately it did not need two generations for suicide bombers to arrive in Pakistan.

Education is empowerment that has nothing to do with religions. You can pour religion(s) in it as much as you like, but please impart education. No I do not wear my HBS badge. Yes, I am proud to be part of a fine institution. That is not the only institution that I am proud to have attended. There is nothing magical about it. I had a dream, I pursued it. HP Mian can do it too, and so can you too. Go for it, unless it is too late in your innings.

Regarding today’s India, I am very bullish about it. Yes it has defects. Yes I feel my roots. Yes I was the first mover from Silicon Valley into India, now Bangalore has more engineers than Silicon Valley. Quality of engineers I am now involved is simply outstanding. They are competitive.

Regarding Pakistan I am hopeful. I have so many wonderful friends, when I look at them then I simply cannot believe what I read. I am always an optimist is how I see. I thought you and HP Mian are decent and intelligent people with whom I can have a meaningful dialog, and I would learn a few things. I was wrong. You have showed your colors, you are an Islamic red-neck, just as Laddu, Ranger and Sanatani have turned out as Hindu Red-Necks. Yes, I read them at Chowk, as I am surprised that younger generation in India can turn out such ideologically indoctrinated young men. What I am so surprised is why intelligent people here, have such foul mouth, and such a little tolerance for dissent.

Maadi seems to be saying non Muslims shouldn't complain about paying jaziya because they should be grateful they are allowed to live. So if a Muslim nation was in the position the UK was a hundred years ago or the US still is, they would have massacred all non-believers or had them pay jaziya.
This is an exceptionally bloodthirsty view of the world, and one that makes Eklavya happy :)It does Islam no favours

Maadi seems to be saying non Muslims shouldn't complain about paying jaziya because they should be grateful they are allowed to live. So if a Muslim nation was in the position the UK was a hundred years ago or the US still is, they would have massacred all non-believers or had them pay jaziya.
This is an exceptionally bloodthirsty view of the world, and one that makes Eklavya happy :)It does Islam no favours

masan, bro, it may be unfair to dump this on masadi ji. There are unlikely to be too many Muslims, on chowk or elsewhere, who would accept the equation you are suggesting, or that the spread of Islam was anything but good for both Muslims and non-Muslims.

(Such discussions are actually meaningless across the religious divide.)

#186 there is absolutely no equation between the benevolence and civility of the Quran and the barbarism of the US elite. Try phonics you still might learn how to read and comprehend...

Not only do they slaughter them using Israel, economic sanctions and the "bombing of Iraq to the stone age", they have sweetheart deals with the tin pot rulers that give them lucrative defense contracts worth billions and their corporations a greater chunk of oil revenues than anything mere "Jizya" could accomplish...

So you are basically Ok with that approach, because you support the similar stance taken by the 7th century Muslims under Mohammad.

masan writes "It is Ok for the US elite to slaughter one group of "Muslims". But it shows the benevolence of the US elite to let the group live and pay "jaziya".."

Not only do they slaughter them using Israel, economic sanctions and the "bombing of Iraq to the stone age", they have sweetheart deals with the tin pot rulers that give them lucrative defense contracts worth billions and their corporations a greater chunk of oil revenues than anything mere "Jizya" could accomplish...

#183 unfortunately I cannot teach you how to comprehend simple sentences. In the case of the group mentioned in 9:29 they were at war with the Muslims even though the Muslims were abiding by their treaty they were slaughtering them every opportunity they got and conspiring with others to slaughter them. Even faced with this the Quran disallows their slaughter and offers the Jizya option upon defeat if they give up fighting- no other group in the 7th century, and I challenge you to prove otherwise would be so benevolent with such a bunch of thugs and murderers- this shows the much higher level of "civilization" of the Quran compared to what was around in that area.

Regarding the US elite they have been killing and helping to kill the Muslims in the middle east area for a long long time, and they practically dominate that area and its tin pot rulers so the second part of your BS compared to the first does not reflect too well on your intellect- fool.

#181:

#179, if you had learned how to read in school, you'd note that Sura 9:29 is about a particular group of "non-Muslims", to whom this "notice" that is the entire chapter 9 is addressed to. For them it is benevolence of the Muslims that is accepting Jizya, any others dealing with such people would have slaughtered them in the marketplace.


So according to you

It is Ok for the Muslims to slaughter one group of "non-Muslims". But It shows the benevolence of the Muslims to let that group live and pay "jaziya"

Let me try this:

It is Ok for the US elite to slaughter one group of "Muslims". But it shows the benevolence of the US elite to let the group live and pay "jaziya"..

masan writes "And we should "believe" you that "Jaziya" tax rate is less than "Zakat". The available evidence proves the opposite."

When it was first "misapplied" at the time of Umar, the rate was lower than that of Zakat that the Muslims paid.

#179, if you had learned how to read in school, you'd note that Sura 9:29 is about a particular group of "non-Muslims", to whom this "notice" that is the entire chapter 9 is addressed to. For them it is benevolence of the Muslims that is accepting Jizya, any others dealing with such people would have slaughtered them in the marketplace. Therefore taking that verse and applying it in a blanket fashion to all non-Muslims is a gross distorition of it- but the distortion and the benevolence of that verse cannot be recognized by bigots or illiterates and it certainly cannot be recognized by people who went through college but didn't learn how to read...

further to #178 I will add that while the jury is still out on Menzies claim that the Chinese crossed the Atlantic to discover the Americas decades before Columbus, the very fact that he can make a plausible case and the type of evidence he presents (including wrecks of enormous Chinese vessels in far flung places as far south as Australia) indicates that the Chinese were sea-faring people at a scale that totally outstripped anything from India.

As it was practiced viz a viz Zakat, it gave the non Muslim extra privilages for nothing, so what's the complaint in this, should they have forced Zakat, a higher tax out of the non-Muslims?

ROFL.. The Quranic verse says


9:29
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


That seems like a benevolent way of treating the non-Muslims.

And we should "believe" you that "Jaziya" tax rate is less than "Zakat". The available evidence proves the opposite.

You can peddle your stories about "jaziya" being the best tax plan to people who read your books/webste. I don't think any one else would buy those stories.

IslamIslam: I will ignore your insulting tone towards me and your stupid nick whereby you define your entire presence on chowk around your hatred for Islam. I will ignore this because you actually wrote some facts down. The reason I refuse to exchange posts with Mohar is not because he is a hindu, but because he has nothing substantive to write and his concept of chowk interaction is to exchange insults.

Having said that, these are my comments on the substance of what you write. You correctly point to Indian influence in south-east asia and sri lanka. I will add VietNam to the list where I read about an Indian man having played a role in their history centuries ago. Nevertheless - these are contiguous areas, and there is no question that the arabs travelled and engaged in trade at far greater ranges. Arab caravans went through the silk route all the way to China in the east, and across norther africa in the South. Arab ships went up and down the coast of East Africa, and Arab slave ships routinely reached all the way to England and north to Iceland where they would capture locals for their slave trade. Arab Navigational techniques were copied by the Portugese (under prince Henry the Navigator), including the ability to steer ships against the wind - this feature along with Arab navigational techniques giving rise to the european Age of Discovery that led to the discovery of the New World and colonization of much of the Old World for almost 500 years. There is nothing in India that compares with this - as I said, even the idea of crossing an ocean was considered sacriligeous by hindus.

The Chinese similarly were far more sea-faring than anything coming out of India - in the 8th century, Chinese built ocean-going ships that were far bigger and more advanced of anything in Europe until centuries later. According to the englishman Menzies, in his book titled "1421, the Year China Discovered America", under Admiral Zheng He a massive Chinese fleet of hundreds of ships not only went to Indonesia and East Africa (where it is generally agreed Chinese ships often travelled), but provides evidence (including a Chinese map captured by the turks) that they went all the way around Africa, crossed the Atlantic, went around South America all the way north to what is now California.

So, to the best of my understanding, it is correct to say that the Chinese and Arabs were way advanced in terms of sea-faring as well as land travel relative to Indians. If this goes counter to the impression you have, instead of calling me names I suggest you focus on the facts. The Chinese and Arabs are not my uncles that I have to inflate their importance, rest assured.

As it was practiced viz a viz Zakat, it gave the non Muslim extra privilages for nothing, so what's the complaint in this, should they have forced Zakat, a higher tax out of the non-Muslims? Or make them tax-exempt because they were non-Muslims- go tell that to the IRS and see how fast they put you behind bars....

Regarding the Jizya, a blanket application of it was a misuse of the Quranic verse but the tax was not unfair altogether because the Muslims had to pay Zakat, and its percentage was quite a bit higher than Jizya-


You know I said this in my comment #168 already that you'd claim

yes. "jaziya" on non-Muslims is the best tax plan that anyone can get in earth and heaven combined.


:-)

So you are basically Ok with the government treating different people differently on the basis of religion. is that so?.

in addition to #172, points 1,ii,iii, iv, let me add one of the other most important differences that directly led to the new world, that of v) free flow of knowledge and ideas and equal transfer of technology...

masan writes "yes..islam colonialism wasn't similar to brit colonialism...it was better..."

Those are arjun the bigot's words, I am not an illiterate to first attribute Arab conquests to "Islam" and second to equate those conquests with british colonialism, both were different animals altogether, except for the bigots who are lost in time and want to dwell on only those aspects of history which soothe their bigotry but do nothing whatsoever to help us understand the present.

Regarding the Jizya, a blanket application of it was a misuse of the Quranic verse but the tax was not unfair altogether because the Muslims had to pay Zakat, and its percentage was quite a bit higher than Jizya-

So do you think
"jaziya" on non-Muslims is Ok. ?

arjun writes "yes..islam colonialism wasn't similar to brit colonialism...it was better...

right? "

Historians don't call that "colonialism" simply because it was as I had said earlier qualitatively different than European colonialism, in those aspects that make it quite unlike the european one i)autonomy ii)inclusiveness iii)long term effects on development. iv) protection of the indigineous folk unlike European settler areas where they were wiped out

Where the Arabs or others using the Muslim label (which is not a label but a state of affairs) plundered and killed and looted, I condemn them all right here right now.

This fallback to "Islamic Colonization" by the Hindu bigots whenever you try to understand Western imperialism that affects us today, is for the sole purpose of bigotry and muddying the barbarism of their masters. When you fallback to what reflects well on Islam and knowledge i.e. the Muslim scientists of old, they say you are dwelling in the past, and yet when youn try to understand today's world they fall back to their constructed mythology of "Islamic colonization" in words that they themselves and not historians have "invented". And then there is the harvard business school graduate Anil who can hardly put one decent sentence togehter, let alone knowing anything about history, asking me not to "glorify" colonization. Fool when you develop even half the morality and sense of you fellow human being as I have, then we can talk about glorification of colonization. Illiterates do not impress me and I have no time to waste with them...

Massaddi Mian:

You must apologize for glorifying colonialism and imperialism of any kind.

Massaddi Mian:

"...it was better..."

You are no different than an American red-neck who calls invasion of Iraq as better. I now realize that you are a red-neck of Islamic variety. Tahmed sahib, and Hamidm sahib so accurately pictured you. I must apologize to them for trying to bat for you.

Re: # 164

Massaddi Mian:

What are you talking, and where did you leave your brain?
Colonialism is colonialism, Imperialism is Imperialism. Muslim invasions were no better. You conveniently like to call as Arabs when something is bad, or Islamic when it is good.

Just get it. You would at best would a petty bourgeois. Or as Chinese used to call Running Dogs of Islamic Imperialism, if you were living in those times. Now you can only run the par course between 7th century and Mills.

Widen your knowledge, open your mind.

yes..islam colonialism wasn't similar to brit colonialism...it was better...

yes. "jaziya" on non-Muslims is the best tax plan that anyone can get in earth and heaven combined.

:-)

#164 Posted by masadi on January 25, 2008 5:29:18 pm


and second if it had been similar to British colonialism then I would have condemned it equally.


yes..islam colonialism wasn't similar to brit colonialism...it was better...

right?

Also explain to us how singing praise of the "shining city on the hill" every other post, makes you no "fan" of colonization of any kind, you're not only a bigot, you're a liar as well...

Arjun writes "you're just an islamist apologists who has read mills...nothing more..."

That is the opinion of someone who is a plain simple bigot (you) who has hardly read anything, let alone my many posts here over the past 3 years

arjun writes "....but you clearly have a different standard for islamic colonialism...."

Firstly it was not "Islamic", and second if it had been similar to British colonialism then I would have condemned it equally. Every one here knows very well how I do not, even in the least support the so-called "Islamic" political forces and their fight around the globe, I consider them partners with the colonizers- knowing that you certainly cannot claim, except through your bigotry, that I support any kind of colonization of the past.

#160 Posted by masadi on January 25, 2008 5:20:13 pm


No, they actually transformed India into a nation of railroad squatters


No brits, no railroads...

look masadi..I'm no fan of any type of colonialism...no exceptions....but you clearly have a different standard for islamic colonialism in that you think all islamic colonialization was beneficial to the unwilling recepients...

you're just an islamist apologists who has read mills...nothing more...

Once again the sum total of the bigots emerged and were driven back in total loss....this is quite amazing...

#151 Posted by ISlamIslam on January 25, 2008 4:02:02 pm


You can see thousands of incidents of Hindu culture and language in Thai society.


I read about islamofascists killing thai teachers and civilians every other day...so there's thousands of incidents of paki culture in thai society too...

arjun writes "so the brits "civilized" you too... "

No, they actually transformed India into a nation of railroad squatters and their rampage around the globe put to shame the barbarism of the Mongols- It is about ideas and action not about pants and your skirt...

#157, I think you are quite blinded by your bigotry, the discussion has nothing to do with appreciation of Western culture, in fact tahmed does not even have a clue about what that is because his knowledge of it is based on popular fluff that is not "Western culture", it was about his advocacy of our people becomming "slaves" to the white man. Finally there is nothing specifically "Arabic" about the religion of Islam, in fact the Quran attacks the many irrational and barbaric aspects of the then prevailing Arabic culture based on the criteria of truth and humanity, and transformed it. If people in our parts of the world want to transform similar bs in their cultures, it is a good thing not a bad one, nevermind the fluff about "arabic names" which are actually semitic names but due to historic/religious diffusion have become part of multiple cultures. You on the other hand, regardless of how you try to reword your question remain a certified bigot.

#152 Posted by masadi on January 25, 2008 4:41:16 pm


The Mongols did not ravage the Muslims in the long run because the Muslims civilized them and the conquerors became the conquered.


Well you're wearing pants(hopefully) and using the internet and posting in English...

so the brits "civilized" you too...

#156:

Well. This has nothing to do with bigotry. I'm just asking a logical question.

You are against tahmed bending over backwards to appreciate the "western culture'. So you should at least have some opinion on the Muslims bending over backwards in their appreciation of the "arab culture".

If you find nothing wrong with Muslims appreciating "arab culture", don't you think it is a bit hypocritical to blame "tahmed" for his appreication of "western culture".

#155 my comment was regarding "open mindedness" and had nothing to do with something being right or wrong. It certainly had nothing to do with becomming fodder for Hindu bigotry against Islam but then anything and everything including a mosquito sitting on a wall can become fodder for some Hindu bigot to attack Islam and Muslims with- once again tracable to the white man playing one against the other and then using his peons the likes of MAJ to ferment this BS, a disease that the Hindus and to a lesser extent the Muslims of India/Pakistan still suffer from...

Muslims today more of them imitate western clothing and
culture than any Westerner does regarding Arab or any other clothing and culture- what does that tell you, who is the more "open minded". By open minded tahmed wants the Muslims and everyone else of "color" to bow with eternal sajda to the white man- that is what he means by "open minded", if you resist this enslavement and say NO to being told what to do and for your culture to be termed "uncivilized" then this snake will say that you are "undemocratic" and have a closed mind.


Do you think it is Ok to imitate "arab culture" instead of "western culture", for example, in naming your kids with arabic names, or wearing the "arab dress" etc...

One more note about this "openmindedness" bs that tahmed is deliberately throwing out to muddy the situation today (he got the concept from my posts to arjun about Muslim scientists of the past and is misusing it):

Muslims today more of them imitate western clothing and culture than any Westerner does regarding Arab or any other clothing and culture- what does that tell you, who is the more "open minded". By open minded tahmed wants the Muslims and everyone else of "color" to bow with eternal sajda to the white man- that is what he means by "open minded", if you resist this enslavement and say NO to being told what to do and for your culture to be termed "uncivilized" then this snake will say that you are "undemocratic" and have a closed mind. We know your kind tahmed, NEVER AGAIN will we let your kind do to our people what you have done in the past, NEVER again....

in #152 read "and transformed the people in backward railroad squatters" as


and transformed the people to backward railroad squatters

--

p.s You stinking liar don't think that everyone here is so naive to fall for your bs to perpetuate the white man's enslavement of the world. We recognize your kind tahmed, and never again will we let your kind do to our people what you have done in the past. Don't ___ with us.

tahmed writes "Muslims never recovered from the ravages of the mongols, "

A hypocritical excuse by tahmed to gloss over the effects of European colonization on the Muslims and how they played one side against the other, divided up the Middle East and handed it to their peons to rule by proxy and have been preventing them, as they did in the case of Iran and Mossadeq, to develop their own democratic systems. The Mongols did not ravage the Muslims in the long run because the Muslims civilized them and the conquerors became the conquered. Muslims were doing just fine were it not for the backstabbing and in fighting by people like tahmed on behalf of the white man that has reduced them to the state they are in. This snake will never put the blame where it belongs, on the continual imperialism and rape of our lands by the white man and it is not that the Muslims are not "open minded" anymore, whereas the Muslims did not put a series of patents and copyrights on their "knowledge" which they shared openly with the West these swines the US elite and their European allies always prevent equal transfer of technology and where we had the technology like in India they deliberately ruined it and transformed the people in backward railroad squatters, and they could never have done it were it not for backstabbing snakes like tahmed, who helped them destroy our people. Now go ___ off you snake.

Ref mohar11 #140

[mullah32

Another ignoramus paki pulling stuff from youknowhere... Hinuds were travelling the "globe" when your imagined bedouined ancestors still swinging from the tree... :)

there was heavy trade and cultural exchanges with southeast asia. That's why the area is also called Indo-China.And the largest country there called Indonesia - it still has hindu cultural underpins - even though recent islamic surge is spreading there to the detriment of the country....

The largest hinud temple is actually in cambodia, Angkor Wakt.

As far as - travels beyond the western borders, I don't have that much information. may be somebody can throw some light there...]

According to Mullah32 and his campfollowers, only the camel-jockeys have gone across the world in search of trade.

He will make an exception for his friends the Chinese. Wait for him to claim that Christopher Columbus was actually a Muslim and that all American-Indians were Muslims who lost track of their Islamic heritage!

It is well-known that Emperor Ashoka sent his own daughter Sanghamitra as his envoy to Sri Lanka to spread Buddhism there.

Legend has it that the Chinese martial arts were taught to them by an Indian holy man who went to China.

Alexander on his return to Greece from India took with him an Indian philosopher.

These are examples of peaceful transmission of Indian culture to foreign lands.

In terms of conquests, the kings of the Chola country (roughly, the central part of today's Tamil Nadu state) repeatedly waged war against and reduced to submission kingdoms in Sri Lanka, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Cambodia. The Burmese, Thai and Sinhalese languages are written in a modified form of Pali script. Many people in these lands converted to Hinduism. In fact, the Kings of Thailand adopt the regnal name Rama upon ascension to the throne; the current king, Bhumibol, is officially Rama IX. The ancient capital of Thailand, about 50 miles from Bangkok, is Ayutthaya (Ayodhya). Bangkok itself has among its names the word Ratnakosin. The Royal barge is called Suwannahongsa (Swarna hamsa - Golden Swan). You can see thousands of incidents of Hindu culture and language in Thai society.

After the volcanic eruption in 1883 of Krakatoa, Muslim missionaries falsely stated that the volcanic eruption was due to the worship of false gods by the Hindu population of Indonesia and this was Allah's punishment. The population converted en masse to Islam. I wonder how Mullah32 will characterize the tsunami of three years ago that laid waste Indonesia. Is that Shiva's revenge?

Borobudur near Jogjakarta in central Jave is a huge Buddhist stupa. The island of Bali and parts of nearby Lombok are still Hindu.

Malay language has heavily borrowed from Tamil and Sanskrit several words. The word for 'book' is 'pustaka', a Sanskrit word. Currently, it is 'buku' because of the Malaysian zeal to create a new vocabulary. I can give thousands of examples of such Indian influence on Southeast Asia.

Mulla32 needs to get his head out of his @rse.

Re: # 134

Dear Truly,

Believe me, you don't want to know what the evil doctor did, and how he wound up being murdered for his wicked adventures in interpreting the Qur'an!

His followers call themselves Submitters and not Muslims! I know of a few web sites where they propagate the 19 message.

True, the number 19 is mentioned cryptically in the Qur'an, but only as a test for both the believers and the disbelievers. See 74:13 and compare those varying shades of meanings people have come up with.

Now check this out my friend: http://www.geocities.com/masad02/074.html#074.C.015

There is no guidance in mis-guidance.

Peace.

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moron11 #147 ha! ha! trying to get the 20 posts needed for a second bone on the cheap by cutting and pasting them??

you have to work for it, boy. i want 20 posts starting with Mullah32, individually written and demonstrating your campfollower loyalty in reading my posts by referring to something I wrote, before I will toss you another bone. So get to work and stop trying to take shortcuts.

Oops, my bad...

Mullah32

I know you read all my posts, you are just too shy to admit it... come on mullah, admit it... :)

Mullah32

I know you read all my posts, you are just too shy to admit it... come on mullah, admit it... :)

Mullah32

I know you read all my posts, you are just too shy to admit it... come on mullah, admit it... :)

A lot of information about hindu civilization is either lost or not recorded to begin with... Some blame it on invaders... I think it's simply because Hindus simply lost their way... After long tradition of quest for knowledge, they degenerated themselved into rigidity, superstition and caste system... So knowledge was never transferred down the generations... Society did not advance as it should have, which is why it fell to invaders in the first place...

campfollower mohar: I told you I do not read posts from fools like you. But, being a generous man and in recognition of your loyal campfollowing, I do toss you a bone once every 20 posts. Since this is the first post you have written lately, I am please to toss you this bone. No go for it, rover!!

further to #139: although admittedly the impact of indian scholars was much more limited than that of the greeks , whose "yoonaani tibb", i.e. ionian (meaning greek) medicine, science, math, philosophy were all eagerly translated and adopted by muslims. The hindu contribution was giving the arabs and from them the world the numbering system. But those were open-minded muslims.

In closing their minds to western civilization the past few centuries, too many muslims have tossed away the very tradition of open-mindedness that led to their glorious rise in the 8th - 14th centuries, and which ended with the mongol invasions.

Muslims never recovered from the ravages of the mongols, and have gone down the drain over the centuries as they switched into the same mongol-like savagery of absolute kingships that has lasted to this day in the form of dictatorships and calls for the khilafat.

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Urstruly: After Ben Qasem's invasion of Sindh, hindu scholars were invited to Baghdad, where they sat side by side with scholars from greece. I am surprised you forget this obvious impact.

As for the hindu influence on the kaaba, that seems to be a laddu to be enjoyed but not taken seriously.

Re: # 136

My questions were not intended to insult you but should be taken in the spirit of inquiry. What laddu has propounded as his theory on Hindu influence on Kaaba, requires an evidence of Hindu civilization upon Arab civilization. My point was that that while the influence of Egyptian, Persian and Roman Empires upon Arabs is a well documented fact we do not see any such evidence favoring the Hindu influence on Arab culture and civilization. As a matter of fact i only heard such a notion yesterday at this board, and I am curious to see any evidence; while laddu pleads that his theories be taken seriously.

bubba: That has to be the most contrived excuse I have ever heard!! What urstruly writes is an obvious and factual statement.

Hindus simply do not have a history of sending out caravans for trade as was done for centuries by middle eastern people, much less produce any travellers who have enriched human history with their accounts like ibn-batuta as the muslims produced. Indeed, for centuries hindus considered it sacriligeous to even take a boat journey across the sea.

Re: # 130 Posted by Urstruly on January 24, 2008 7:25:16 pm

[I have yet to come across any evidence that Hindus as merchants travelled to Arabia to go to Africa or Europe following the trade routes of those days. At least I have never seen any such record.]

How can you ever have written evidence when arab/muslim invaders burnt everything?

Hate to break it to laddu - but the history of human migrations indicates that mankind spread out of Africa, not out of India. And where mankind went, its religions and superstitions, its customs, even its domesticated animals followed.

Thus,

1. the sacred cow of hindus was domesticated by people of the middle east (from the the wild ancestor of the cow, the Aurach) in the middle east around 12,000 BC, and (with human migrations) brought into India.

2. The sacred books of hindus - the vedas - were developed in (sorry if this offends you) Pakistan (i.e. around the Indus Valley) where mankind first spread. They were carried into India as mankind spread eastward. So, in matters of religion, India received the initial dose from the Indus valley and areas west of the Indus valley - and merely messed up the original religion with local creations like the caste system and face painting and what-not in the centuries over that.

3. The very term "hindu" was used by the residents of the Indus Valley, i.e. Pakistan, to refer to themselves when this land was part of the ancient persian empire. When asked where they were from by the local greeks, soldiers in the persian army of the Achaemanians referred to themselves as "indus" (people of the river indhu. Since what is now India amounted to nothing back then (human civilization back then was all in Pakistan around the indus valley civilization or around the fertile crescent), the term was extended to anyone east of Pakistan as well.

Nor does India's imports from the west stop after the first few thousand years of human civilization. Another symbol of India (the three-headed lion) was passed over from the Greeks (similar three-headed lions have been found in ancient greece long before they first appeared in India). Paper writing was brought over by muslims - and written records of Indian history appear only with muslims. before that - there are pottery shards with writing on it, or stupas like those put up by Asoka, but no paper records like those of al-beruni who provides the first scholarly review of indian culture, e.g.

Today, India continues to borrow in leaps and bounds from the west - bollywood, IT, education, political systems, military systems. You name it.

I am not saying it is bad to borrow. If someone has already invented the wheel, you dont need to re-invent it. But the laddus of India need to recognize the facts - and the fact is that India has borrowed far, far more from the middle east and the indus valledy than indians care to acknowledge.

Re: # 133

Unfortunately, not any one else but it is us who have turned a simple book of guidance (on human behavior) into something mythical of nature. The message is just plain and simple - i.e. "there is no god but One God and follow these social and personal behaviors to be successful in life". That is all there is.

I don't know if it is Rashid Khalifa or some one else who had discovered a connection betweem sevral things in Qura'n with number 19. For example check this out:

http://ajmalbeig.addr.com/isl_mathematics.htm#code

Now as we go through this data, one is naturally quite impressed. But the first principle of guidance is that that the among many interpretations of Qura'n the first precedence must be given to the interpretation done by Holy Prophet (pbuh) himself. Everything else comes second. The reason is that that his interpretations are not contradictory. On the other hand when we get down to the second tier of interpretations the chances of interprations getting contradictory to the other message in Qura'n, increase.

hence alothough the studies such as relevance of number 19 with Qura'n seems quite impressive, one should take them with a grain of salt.

Re: # 124

Ilm-al-Jufar? Many things have been attributed to pious people, i.e words put into their mouths! The believers would never indulge in religious innovations (bidah).

The Muslims learnt numerological acrobatics from Christians, who learnt it from Babylonian Jews who learnt it from .... I guess you get the picture.

Have you heard about Richard Kalif (disguised as Rashid Khalifa) who processed the Holy Quran using a computer to come up with his silly theories?

Peace.

Re: # 107

Dear Mr. Laddu,

As you can tell, I have not decided to eat you up!

You said:
Of course they are fossils! I challenge you guys to get the electronic spectroscopy of the kabba stone done and accept the claim to redeem the kabba temple back.

I say:
The ancestors are fossils too by now; give up such claims that require electronic spectroscopy or whatever. If you believe in God (or whatever), He will surely listen to your claims. Please wait...

Peace.

#126 Posted by laddu

“Welcome to Sanatana Dharma,
observe ALL the Karmas including daily Nitya Karma (trikaal Sandhya), Naimitika and other Karma. Do Upachara, pujan and observe various Vrataas and purities.”

Pundit Laddu,
Thank you very much for accepting me in to the faith. It is my pleasure to be a Sanatana Dharmi. Pundit Laddu, since I have not heard of any of the books you recommended before, could you please tell me where can I buy them? Better still, would you please post them here so that not only me but hamidm and others that are so close to switching religions can benefit from the wisdom incorporated in those books.

Are these books in Arabic? You know we can read religious books in Arabic only.

Bhagwan bless you!

Re: # 127

I am not rejecting any of your theories - not without a test. Some of them even sound plausible. For example, at the time when Holy prophet(pbuh) started his mission of reviving the religion of Adam, Moses, and Jesus (peace be upon them all), there were idols of 360 dieties worshipped in Kaaba. It is also recorded that some of these dieties were common for all people and tribes and some were exclusively claimed by a particular person or tribe. So it is plausible that a diety of 'people of Hind' might also be present among 360 others. Along with these polytheists there were also a group of people who worshipped only One God. They were not Jews or Christians but Arabs who called thesleves Mohideen (Monotheists) or the followers of Deen-e-Ibraheem i.e. Religion of Abraham (pbuh). So the idea of 'No God but One God' that Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) had introduced wasn't a new idea at all. This fact proves that the original religion of Arabs (and Jews and Christians) was that of One God, however, it got corrupted by Polytheism.

As far as the presence of Hindu diety in Kaaba is concerned, although it is plausible, it seems highly unlikely. In our recorded history or even that of Hindu history we do not come across any Hindu Marco Polo or Ibn-e-Batuta who travelled to the lands far and wide and recorded anything about his travel. Yes there are mythical legends, such as that of Ram going to Lanka but that is what they are mere- legends. In comparison, the travelogues of Chinese travellers such as Haven Saang and Fa hian are well preserved and not mythical in nature. I have yet to come across any evidence that Hindus as merchants travelled to Arabia to go to Africa or Europe following the trade routes of those days. At least I have never seen any such record.

Talking about plausibility, following your logic, a case could also be made that there are extreme similarities between Hindu, Greek, and Roman Polytheistic Mythologies. So a case can be made that it was in fact Alexander the Great who introduced Greek mythology to Hindustan which later took the form of what Hinduism is today. I have as much proof to prove this theory that one has to disprove this theory.

I have come across work from some Hindu religious nuts who try to imitate themselves as some kind of scholars. One such hack is Sudheer Birodkar who in fact wrote thesis after thesis that it was Hindusim that spawned the Greek civilization. As a proof he presented about 10 words that sounded the same in (modern) Greek and Anicient Sanskrit and had similar meanings. I am forgetting those words right now but such so called proof is only worth laughing out.

Coming back to your theories I guess the burden of proof lies with you to support your claims with evidence, not us.