Musharraf’s Days are Numbered

Re: # 24



tahmed32.....I just heard this song on the radio; go here to see the video as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQHrspjw4aA

Who am I to disagree?
Travel the world and the seven seas
Everybody's looking for something
Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused

Musharraf is increasingly irrelevant anyway - particularly now that the military has started distancing itself from him (latest being kiyani's pledge that the military will not get involved in current elections (contrary to musharraf's talk about soldiers "shooting to kill" to keep current elections "peaceful" - a direct but hopefully an empty threat to force musharraf's men into power).

We need to start thinking beyond musharraf - we need to make sure that military dictatorship is replaced by true rule of law and restoration of the judiciary. Otherwise, we will simply replace one thug (musharraf) with another (civilian dictator who subverts the constitution like nawaz sharif tried to do last time, like zardari has already done by making PPP seem like a Bhutto family necklace, rather than a national party that belongs to the people and is subject to the will of the people, not the will of benazir (with all due respect to her supreme sacrifice).

zeemax: #17

I didn't say army will kill him. He might be assassinated by the kind of people who killed BB.

Mohammad Gill

Why put all the blame on General(R) Musharraf? After all the mess Pakistan is in today has been caused by mostly other powerful guys. Corrupt politicuans, Stupid releigios and finally by Army Guys.

What personal glory or rewards are going to be reaped by General(R) Mush.? None. He has learnt from his mistakes and there is no one around to take charge of the country at this time- especially against home grown Talibans! Leave him alone and get rid of him later after 5 years if you don't like!

Kamath

I dont think he will lose his life... I think he will be sent to a mental institution...

While going through the Dawn pages, I saw this reference in Irfan Hussain's article. The reference was to an article by someone called Shekhar Gupta of the I.E, and the title was "Junta versus Janata" http://www.indianexpress.com/story/257744._.html it makes sense - in fact the last paragraph is very sensible and something which I think needs to read and reiterated here:

"a modern nation needs democracy and so it needs its politicians, however clumsy, corrupt, effete and power-crazed they may be. Because a military dictator can also be all of these things. The difference is, the political leader draws his power from the democratic process, so he has a stake in preserving that system, howsoever cynical he may be. The general draws his power by throttling the democratic system and its institutions and you can see the results of that in Pakistan. So, in a democracy, howsoever powerful a Lalu or Mayawati, they have to shut up and listen when the Supreme Court speaks. The election commission can publicly upbraid both Sonia Gandhi and Narendra Modi. We, the media, can question and curse who we want. It happens because the political class has the biggest stake in the democratic process, howsoever much it may wish to manipulate it. In contrast, a military dictator owes his power to the absence of institutions, of checks and balances. That is exactly what Musharraf has done to his judiciary, the election commission and even the media. That is why he has to summon the Scotland Yard to investigate Benazir’s assassination.
"

Here is the thing - Musharuff is on tour trying to convince the world of a number of things (you can change the order as you like)

(a) Pakistan can be trusted
(b) Pakistan is with you
(c) I can deliver
(d) WTF are you guys doing by making India a member of the UNSC (note China, UK, France have publiclly said they support the case).


In reality what can be done is that there is coup in Pakistan as we are discussing this right now - and the Prez's plane turned around and sent elsewhere (or Mushy goes to DC without even going back). - I agree with arjun_5's sentiment but think for the sake of Pakistan it should be brought forward.

Bringing it forward will make
(a) Zeemax and his lot happy
(b) also ensure that Nanga Pir's comment (which HP from insightful) come true.

In fact (a) and (b) are connected - only the timetable will be brought forward.

in #16 HP asks (nanga pir)

Your posts are cryptic but insightful. Yes, I agree that as the central authority in Pakistan wanes, local militias would take over. Now if the army is disbanded, there is nothing to deter these militias. How do you propose that should be handled?

Man, which world are you living in: I am sure zeemax and his friends are laughing their balls off when you ask "How do you propose that should be handled?" There is no question of handling. Militias taking over will mean lots of little countries/republics fiiling the vacumn - you could have the Jamsaheb of Lahore, Sultan Rawal of Pindi, Pir Dawood of Karachi etc etc. HP it cannot be handled - for once you militias forget pakistan!

Pakistan unfortuantely could not forge for itself an identity in the last 60 years. All the politicians have failed their exams (you guys recall./remember the nyumber of times the politicians and the elite called ont he army to take over the coutnry because they couldnot stand Bibi, or Nawaz or some combination), and the federatred structure will will work if it is not loose....

the biggest pity in all of this is that the solution staring in the face was never implemented - Lop-sided states should never exist in a country - in Pakistan's case Punjab is not just an elephant in the room, a bull in a china shop, or the 600lb gorrilla - it is all of these. The state of Punjab should have been divisioned for all sorts of reasons - aat the very least it woud have brought some political parity with the other states.

#17 Posted by zeemax on January 28, 2008 2:02:46 am


I think eventually he will be exiled.


mushy's timing is impeccable. The housing market in the US is at an all time low. He can probably get a finished basement, jacuzzi and a flat screen TV free if he agrees to move in by the end of the year...

Gill Saheb,

Musharraf in case of an army coup, I don't think the coup-makers will consider it necessary to physically eliminate him because he has no power base of which anyone would be concerned. I think eventually he will be exiled.

#11 Posted by NangaPir
"it will not be long when the western supports dries out and we will have local militias everywhere. God forbid that time when we will have gangs everywhere. We need to disband army,"

Your posts are cryptic but insightful. Yes, I agree that as the central authority in Pakistan wanes, local militias would take over. Now if the army is disbanded, there is nothing to deter these militias. How do you propose that should be handled?

My solution would be to keep a loose federation and let the provincial powerhouses such as the PPP in Sindh, ANP in Part of NWFP, Baloch nationalists in Balochistan and perhaps a united ML take over the Punjab!

Pakistan is headed for difficult times mainly due to the army and the army wants to take advantage of its position in the area to drive a hard bargain with the US. Would the US stand for it? I doubt that very much!

Re: # 13 Liquit Ali khan did all and good acts get always punished , he was slaughterd by elites of that time.

Re: # 12
Dear Mr. Madani,

I ask everyone here not to get abusive and follow the Interact rules of CHOWK. By the way, I don't get paid to do this! And when did I abuse you?

We have different opinions about the Mush-Bush mashed potato thing. And what has cinema (Reema, Saima, Resham etc.) got to do with all this?

Angelina Jolie did meet with Mush along with her husband (who must have been looking the other way) to discuss our for-RUNN policy!

Peace.

Re: # 10
Dear Urs Truly,
Most of the suggestions you gave were being put into practise by Liaqat Ali Khan long ago. Basically, the FO (foreign office) cannot utter these two alphabets to its controllers and handlers! :)

Now who wants to be blown up in Liaqat Bagh?

Booom....

Re: # 3 Good morning Mr.Tahir.
If you feel good be my guest and go on abusing me and feel good for my english prblems.

I may be idiot and "mad" but I find general standing and protecting Pakistan , a hero of kargil ( oh yes failures have no father as they). You have any stand bye stooge to replace. Can you mention any you know and how they are better. Honestly except altaf hussain and to some extent president all others for last 60 years are useless, even my last hero was demolished throghly by masadi logically. No body missed any leader after they are and if you shot all leaders and fed to sharks nobody will cry. It is truth. Actually we people deserve what we get. Now one person is trying to save you call him dictector. He is standig against Talibs as if he is killed as retired engineer wants ( masadi has clealy shown many time this us spoiled writers are just copy stuff and paste as theirs, in that way Raw agent Arjun is straight forward). When talibs take your they will be checking liberals and shooting them first for having shaved faces. Now all liberals are supporting and cheering talibs. Now general is try best to help p.stan by pleasing usa and same time keep talibs alive the mutusl coexistance is cold peace as Omar mullah values services offered and know at same time general will not press to hard. So as liberal wants O.Mullah takes over will have friendly regime and they understand "majburi". Anyway General is only person keeping both Americans at bay ( at same time pick pocketing american wallets) and Talibans not too unhappy and friendly not hostile.
As they said its very complex things and you and i can not understand inside deals. So its better to be left to president who knows all.

also we have stupid people who are worried about movies/ indian . ( there no movies but indian movies here and learned people worry about machinary brought and money involved) Now people who have no even goatbrains worry when talibs are on offensive and balochi terrorists are blowing electic wires and gas lines and railway. Now even layman like me do not understand why give opportunity for terroe to blow this things, why not burry 2o feet down in earth. What we have is all chors, they want more blast more work.

Any way we need genearl as there are areas and intelluctual who are stupid or mad.
look at learned editor.
Second Editorial: Anyone for a cinema in Islamabad?

The Pakistan National Council of the Arts (PNCA) in Islamabad has tried but failed to get enough support for the opening of a cinema. The capital is without a cinema while there is a proliferation of mosques and hostile madrassas there. The site of the cinema was to be inside the National Arts Gallery which the president has helped open against the wishes of everyone including the Islamised bureaucracy and the government. The PNCA thought it could revive cinema-going in a highly Islamised Islamabad by holding a South Asian film festival. But it can’t get a sponsor for the shows and is therefore stuck with the cinema equipment it has imported and has been holding on to for the last many years.

Those who fear that Pakistan might go under to the terrorists look at Islamabad’s intensely radical Islamist population and draw their conclusions. However, cinemas all over Pakistan have shut down in great numbers. Pakistan used to make over 200 films a year; it is now making barely 12. But the mosques are full with people on all five occasions during the day and spill over on Fridays. Meanwhile, people are watching films on VCRs as forbidden pleasure while the masses lack all entertainment. Is Pakistan ripe for the plucking? *"

When idiots will know no time for movies.
Anyway stupid will get what they want ( removing general) and then will cry for next twenty years.

Tahir you can be polite to elder people with saying bad things.
"

Don't you see that the western model of armies in the world especially in the Muslim world is falling apart? Hamas, Hizbe Ullah and Taliban are holding the nuclear powers at bay. The ex-service men are trying to save this disaster but it will not be long when the western supports dries out and we will have local militias everywhere. God forbid that time when we will have gangs everywhere. We need to disband army, prosecute ISI, hang generals for their crimes against humanity and form a national army.

Unfortunately a time of national reconciliation has come and gone for good. The Pakistani nation will be harvesting what this regime has sowed for next couple of decades - and unfortunately it is nothing but guilloutines. It is going to be extremely painful next two decades. However, there is a way that we can reduce this pain. The Pakistani nation must:

1. Ditch the Bitch: This dictator has become a liability for each and every party involved in the tragedy that is called pakistan today - not only for people of Pakistan, but military, their foreign masters, and dictator's own civilian underlings.

2. Re-establish the deposed judiciary.

3. Re-constitute the election commission.

4. Fouj must stop masacares in Waziristan, swat, and Baluchistan. All citizens must be given unconditional amnesty.

5. Realease all 20,000+ "disappeared" Pakistani citizens with an apology and full compensation. All Pakistani citizens who were illegally handed over to US and Europeans and they are being tortured in their internments camps all over the globe must be brought back.

6. All Pakistani citizens in Blauchistan, Waziristan, and Swat must be given full compenastion for the damage to their properties and Qisas and Diyat for the lives and limbs lost.

7. Fouj must unconditionally apologize to whole Pakistani nation for its crimes ahgainst nation and constitution and seek forgiveness through a National Reconcilliation Commission.

8. An interim government must be formed for six months that will ensure that free and fare elections will be held without interference from criminal elements in fouj and civilians.

9. Pakistan must build a wall at Pak-Afghan border.

10. All American bases on Pakistani soil must be abolished.

11. The 99 year lease of thousands of acres of land near Thatta to US must be annulled and re-estabilshed as Pakistani soveriegn territory.

12. Fouj must go back to the cantonment kennels, and all corps commanders must be administered with rabbies shots.

13. All the plots, and property acquired by fouj and their civilian underlings in the past 10 years must confiscated by government.

Will all this ease the pain. No. But it will make it bearabale. Otherwise, no man, no woman, no child is safe in Pakistan. There will be guillotines, just like one that was for Benazir.