Bullhe Shah and His Veil of “Meem”

Re: # 109

Tahir ji,

I know my Quran well enough - and I know my shahi Hadiths as well.
You mean there is something new in Asad's translation of Al Anfal?? How is Asad's tafsir giving different interpretation of what to do with modern day idolators??

"...AL-ANFAL

SURAH

hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks, [O believers,] and strike off every one of their finger-tips!"''s

(13) This, because they have cut themselves off from '6 God and His Apostle: and as for him who cuts himself off from God and His Apostle - verily, God is severe in retribution. (14) This [for you, O enemies of God]! Taste it, then, [and know] that suffering through fire awaits those who deny the truth!

(15) O YOU who have attained to faith! When you meet in battle those who are bent on denying the truth, advancing in great force, do not turn your backs on them:" (16) for, whoever on that day turns his back on them-unless it be in a battle manoeuvre or in an endeavour to join another troop [of the believers] - shall indeed have earned the burden of God's condemnation, and his goal shall be hell: and how vile a journey's end!

(17) And yet, [O believers,] it was not you who slew the enemy,'$ but it was God who slew them; and it was not thou who cast [terror into them, O Prophet], when thou didst cast it, but it was God who cast it:'9 and [He did all this] in order that He might test the believers by a goodly test of His Own or..."

what is new in this translation?? How is it different?

Re: # 106

Supporting CHEEMA?!?!?

Rabbani, Rabbani...what does the name Rabb-ani mean? How men seldom live up to the qualities of their names...

Peace

Since you so eulogize this Arab wannabe guy Asad- give me a link to a tranlation of his bookk "Road to Mecca" plz.

Its not I with the baggage my friend! "Faith" by definition is blind but looks like this "blindness" is more of the mind of the beholder; i.e., one's thinking faculties; they get overridden by the control by some sky fairy in case of the evil of mono-theism. It appears some of the guys haven't read earlier discussions on this and seem to confuse the concept of cultural solidarity with "a desire to re-visit" some contract with "the divine". I never signed any contracts with any unseen, unheard, unproven and logically impossible sky fairies and sure have nothing to re-visit!

I thought it important to get this out of the way.

Regarding Mohammed Asad and his translation; are we saying that after centuries of confusion, warfare and human sacrifices on all sides, suddenly in twentieth century an orientalist convert translates ancient myths into english and this is the moment we were waiting for! Now suddenly we are to be "liberated" because the "code has finally been decoded". Doesn't appear logical at all.

As far as sky fairies and mind control, if someone claims that today independent of being part of a "faith-group", we all know we would have serious concerns about their mental health. However, if people in droves do the same, we have historically considered it a virtue and respect it as "their faith". It seems there is sanity in numbers!

Re: # 116

Hmm....

You have a greater understanding my friend than these Arabic wannabes indeed.

I have said already - reject Mohammad - accept Allah. That is the way to divine connection- Mohammad although talks about way to Allah - he just takes every one away from Allah in reality!!

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The case for or against the existence of a "Supreme Prime Mover" has nothing to do with dogmatic religion. Like a lot of other unnecessary "necessities" in life, religion has become one; the only litmus test is to look at people not raised in the religious framework and study the impact; there is not the slightest suggestion that they turn out to be evil. In fact quite the opposite. It is very much, in evolutionary terms, an acquired taste! In the olden days, it gave people a sense of community and perhaps same is true now.

Besides, if a child feels consoled by the imaginary presence of some false fairytale character, a figment of its vivid imagination, that alone doesn't make the presence of such character true. I think it is much better to get paid professional help if one is feeling down; it keeps it much safer for the rest of us!

I for one don't doubt, at least in the initial phases of its development, the sincerity of Jesus or Mohammed for that matter in trying to define a "meaning" in this life. However, I fail to recognise their individual authority on the subject and certainly doubt that the later events were necessarily pre-envisaged by either one of them. I certainly have no problems critiquing either one (or others for that matter). However, I think much has been made out of nothing in regards to all this rubbish about interpretations, hidden meanings, infallibility of scripture and similar concepts. Just take them at face value and above all, if you believe in a certain fairytale to be true, use it for your personal consolence, if it helps, but don't expect the rest of us to just swallow it based on YOUR convictions. Certainly not in the shape of, for example, legal codes for countries affecting the lives (usually adversely) of millions and turning them in to "submissive" to the WILL of something supernatural, which as would appear from the discussions in the last day or so, remains very poorly defined!

Many thanks for your company guys; for now I shall take your leave as "Kaar-e-jahan daraaz hai...". I enjoyed it immensely and certainly appreciate your input.

laddu is the true face of hinduism---never ever come across anyone with as much hatred of the prophet as him.

"I for one don't doubt, at least in the initial phases of its development, the sincerity of Jesus or Mohammed for that matter in trying to define a "meaning" in this life."

Mohammad did connect with divine in his 40 days of seclusion - infact a lot of sufis and sadhus who indertake such sadhanas do connect.
but some of them get frightened by the gradual annihilation of the ego that they run away from that and become fallen from sadhana.
Such people more often turn into ego re-affirming actions like senseless violence, rape and banditry in affirming their connection to divine.
These are the fallen sadhakas and turn into bhrasht Rakshasas - that is exactly what happened to Mohammad later.

Mohammad could never accept the fact that path to god is annihilation of ego - scared at the prospect of his ego dissolution he remained covered in the veil of "meem" and acted violently that re-affirmed his ego as a "prophet" that is superior to other humans.

Re: # 119

Leaving us so soon? Dinner was just about ready!

Re: # 120

No he's the wrong face. Hindu scriptures are not what he utters. Pray for him to become mentally 'pawittar'.

There are quite a few men alive today who love insulting the deceased prophets.

laddu, how do you know that Mohammad connected with the divine, got frightened, and ran away, and became ego affirming, etc.?

That's not a cheap shot. So I won't ask you: "Were you there?" or, "Can you offer historical references? (because no one can expect many anti-Islamic references to surive in Islamic lands).

Can you explain to me, logically, in a way that would make sense to a Muslim? Thanks.

Re: # 113

A CD titled ALIM 6 is available which has 4 translations side by side along with the Hadith books. It has ASAD too!

Asad is the best kept secret in Pakistan. Now find out why the so-called heavyweights of Islam won't allow his translations to be read by the masses. What is accepted is all bubblegum and lollipops!

The local print of his translation should not cost more than $10 in India. The latest foreign edition is just awesome! They created a special Arabic font for its fine print. It has Arabic original text, English translation AND transliteration, a great index and what not. Costs around $40.

Here's an excerpt from his 'The Road to Mecca': (Rs.200/-)

After traveling much of Central Asia, he was now in Afghanistan. He was once traveling from Kabul to Herat on horseback through the snow-covered valleys of Hindu-Kush when his horse lost an iron shoe. So he had to stop the trip for a few days and go to a village to have the shoe repaired. A hakim (district governor) in Afghanistan came to know about a "foreigner" visiting his area. He invited Weiss to spend an evening and a night with him. Weiss, who spoke Persian fluently by that time, accepted the invitation. After the dinner, a villager entertained them with a song and his three-stringed lute. The room was carpeted and warm and it was snowing outside, which could be glimpsed through the window. The song was about David’s fight with Goliath ...

When it ended, the hakim remarked: “David was small, but his faith was great.”

I could not prevent myself from adding: “And you are many, but your faith is small.”

My host looked at me with astonishment, and, embarrassed by what I had almost involuntarily said, I rapidly began to exam myself. My explanation took the shape of a torrent of questions:

“How has it come about that you Muslims have lost your self-confidence — that self-confidence which once enabled you to spread your faith, in less than a hundred years, from Arabia westward as far as the Atlantic and eastward deep into China —and now surrender yourselves so easily, so weakly, to the thoughts and customs of the West? Why can’t you, whose forefathers illumined the world with science and art at a time when Europe lay in deep barbarism and ignorance, summon forth the courage to go back to your own progressive, radiant faith? How is it that Ataturk, that petty masquerader who denies all value to Islam, has become to you Muslims a symbol of ‘Muslim re¬vival’?”
The hakim remained speechless. It was now snowing again outside, and Weiss continued –

“Tell me — how has it come about that the faith of your Pro¬phet and all its clearness and simplicity has been buried beneath a rubble of sterile speculation and the hair-splitting of your scholastics? How has it happened that your princes and great land-owners revel in wealth and luxury while so many of their Muslim brethren subsist in unspeakable poverty and squalour — although your Prophet taught that No one may call himself a Faithful who eats his fill while his neighbour remains hungry? ... How has it come about that so many of you Muslims are ignorant and so few can even read and write — although your Prophet declared that Striving after knowledge is a most sacred duty for every Muslim man and woman and that the superiority of the learned man over the mere pious is like the superiority of the moon when it is full over all other stars"?

The hakim was startled. But at the end, he said,

“But – you are a Muslim ...”

I laughed, and replied: “No, I am not a Muslim, but I have come to see so much beauty in Islam that it makes me sometimes angry to watch you people waste it ... Forgive me if I have spoken harshly ...”

But my host shook his head. “No, it is as I have said: you are a Muslim, only you don’t know it yourself ...”

Now get down on it Laddu brother....
PS: Cross the border and I'll gift the book to you!

Tahir, actually, laddu is a very good Hindu, except that he speaks out. He is the closest to a Hindu friend of Islam.

Secular Hindus are much worse, and they are the true enemies. Laddu at least makes an effort to understand, and is naturally shocked, just as any good Muslim would be shocked were he or she try to really understand Hinduism.

(A 'good' Muslim would want Hinduism to be an extension of Islam, and laddu, a 'good' Hindu wants Islam to be an extension of Hinduism.)

Secular Hindus don't even make an effort, and dismiss it all as off-hand. According to secular Hindus, Muslims do what they do only because they are absolutely crazy, illiterate, brainwashed etc etc.... :(

Re: # 121
"Mohammad could never accept the fact that path to god is annihilation of ego - scared at the prospect of his ego dissolution he remained covered in the veil of "meem" and acted violently that re-affirmed his ego as a "prophet" that is superior to other humans."

Are these your original thoughts? Read the Quran for the dire warnings to the Prophet regarding apprehensions (satanic whispers), incomplete delivery of the message, and paying greater heed to rich pagans in the hope that their conversion might bring about a faster change!

His job was to deliver the message, AND show how it is to be done through persistence, patience, sacrifice, words and good deeds.

The Islam-haters have these pet insults which knowledgeable Muslims are familair with; tell me something new now...

Shanti.

Re: # 126
Mr. Eklavya at last!

I'm sure you read me as closely as you read Mr. Laddu. Just because one's country is five times the size of another hated one does not entitle the former to bad-mouth the later.

Trying to understand faith and spirtuality while mud-slinging is bound to bring the excretion back on the slinger's face--provided one has a real face, a real name to begin with.

Laddu says: I would like to make some good Pakistani friends.

If I were to curse and abuse good Hindus who practise 'dharam' the way it is prescribed in genuine texts, would I make friends?

To live a life full of contraditions is worse than 'narkh'.

Aap hi iss 'moorakh' ko samjhaiay.

Shanti.