Drama of Succession - Pakistan People’s Party

Majumdar writes "...history of MAJ (pbuh)?"

You're a fake and full of fluff, like your pal tahmed.

Maj don't repeat the same old nonsense. Nationalization is the way to make industry fluorish in developing, primary product countries, not only that it increased employment of the poor and helped them tremendously. Regarding ZABs personal landholdings, that is not my concern and should not be the concern of discerning analysts- institution making is what ZAB atleast tried to do regarding the political viz a viz the establishment. The history of the MAJ that manto makes up is the absolvement of him from any responsibility regarding the massacres that took place, and stating that he was of "independant mind" when he was anything but- the guy was a third rate copy of the AtaTurk with a third of his gall, his whole endeavour was not about the people it was a fulfillment of colonial/feudal desires, later this nexus incorporated the military into the equation due to the circumstances created by the partition, the india question and the restless masses.

Masadi sahib,

What is made up about the history of MAJ (pbuh)?

Btw, can you tell me:

How much of ZAB's own personal landholding was donated to the poor in his rule as PM? Or of the other PPP/non-PPP pirs/waderas?
What great shakes he did for the poor apart from ruining the flourishing Pakistani industry by nationalising it?

Regards

Santani try to learn how to compose a sentence the OSS?Mi6 has nothing to do with who the elite are, you first have to understand who they are before you can pontificate that someone is a member of that group. Since you lack the basics of understanding anything I write keep you "pig brain" out of our discussions.

Manto, repeating more of the same does not disprove anything I have written and the fact that the quote was produced (and nothing to counter it has to date been produced by you). Liars like you don't impress me one bit. Learn how to think and reason, and when you develop that maturity (instead of the current man worship mantra and made up "history" regarding the MAJ) then we can talk, till then, shut the __ up. Respectfully stated my "dear" sir.

Romair,

The Ummah does listen to Chomsky and their likes but if the Ummah itself gives birth to a Chomsky he wud probably live in exile or be beheaded.

Otherwise good points.

Regards

majumdar #: "Are you trying to imply that the Ummah will have to indulge in blood letting on the gora scale before it settles down to peaceful existence?"

no, not at all.....i am just trying to point out two things:

1. using eu as an example may not be so simplistic, as it did require blood letting at a gora scale, before being created.....

2. if anyone from outside the ummah (specifically, eu and usa) wants to lecture the ummah on destruction and what not, they will be wasting there time, unless, first and foremost they acknowledge, accept, critique, and most of all oppose all the violence that was and is being carried out against the ummah.....otherwise the ummah will, as it has currently done, simply tell them to f* off.......

you can see this in the amount of attention the ummah pays to certain western commentators.......people like chomsky, fisk, vidal, galloway etc. all criticise obl and terrorism from various muslims, at the same levels as say hamidm, anil, bush, limbaugh, pearle, cheney etc.......

yet everyone in the muslim world pays attention to the former group, and none pays attention to the later.......why?.....because the former group also acknowledges, accepts, critiques, and most of all opposes the current and historical violence committed against the ummah by eu and usa.......while no one in the ummah - unenlightened, moderately enlightened, enlightenedly moderate etc. -is willing to give bush and pearle and cheney etc. the time of day, because this group only looks at others' sins and not their own.......

so i am trying to advise anil that if he wants anyone in the ummah to listen to him, he needs to try to become fisk and not cheney......otherwise, it will just be him and hamidm mian having dinner conversations on how to reform the ummah, based on historical and mathematical inaccuracies (not to mention the fact that hamidm mian was witty and funny and made good conversation at one time, however ever since the rise of bush he has become rather boring and one-sided: his bomb the vermins theory has met one defeat after the other) .........

YLH, please, never again talk about jinnah and his gin sipping and pork eating habits as the proof that he was no islamist. Here is a new topic, equally stupid, but neverthless new for you to respond. Who is a matyre.

from jang of today

The latest aspirant to martyrdom is Asif Zardari. "If I am martyred before completing the mission of Benazir Bhutto, then I should also be buried in Garhi Khuda Bakhsh," he tells his followers while seeking their votes. He says he will become a shaheed in "pursuit of the people's cause." Apart from him, the rest of the power hopefuls starting from President Pervez Musharraf, Mian Nawaz Sharif, Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain and miscellaneous have not expressed such a death wish. Perhaps they are not tempting the gods and sticking their necks out. Wisely, they are keeping out of harm's way by shunning a rendezvous with rallies of death.

Who is a martyr and who is a terrorist? The official mouthpiece, that being the PTV, has for doggone years indoctrinated its viewers that the 'martyr' is one who works for the government of the day and gets killed, i.e. General Ziaul Haq

EU has entered a post-christian era… They have got rid of the baggage. may be that’s what has cooled them down….

#126
Most of the major violence and destruction in the last 700 years have come from either EU or the Ummah. This has come mainly from the spreading their respective religion.

Common factor between both EU and Ummah is that both profess abrhamic religions… both with “jealous god” ……. who says…..“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”

YLH,

I look forward to the day when you will write a few lines of your own, interpret the facts in your own way. Pleeeaaase do not cut and paste that Patwardhan again to convince the people that gandhi was a bigotted maniac and is the father of jihadi movement.

Why cant you be the president of flat earth society in pakistan, you deserve it.

YLH,

You are still stuck in the period of Jinnah and ZAB which is great for a pakistani where most are stuck in an anachronistic book written more than 1700 years ago.

Jinnah is not important but TNT is which as an ideology is still guiding pak society, essentially it means that pakistani muslims cannot live with people of other religion. That is the essence of legislations against ahmadias. That is the essence of al quida supported by abdul pakis.

People like you are making an effort to make one speech by jinnah as a bulwark against the tide of jihadis, better you all give up, it is doing nothing and makes you more like a rip van winkle.

Take the advice of another sane voice in chowk, jinnah is dead and he is irrelevant so is ZAB.

Take it from me, no one talks about ambedkar, Gandhi we have given a day to celebrate his brith day and it ends there.
India creates new heros, new leaders, narayan murthy or asim premji is known by more indians than ambedkar. It is continuos rebewal, that is the essence of hinduism, while for the pakistanis, it is only compliance with the dictates of a book.

Wait for the next elections, sharia will be in full force and that is the deal with the tribals.

Romair,

Are you trying to imply that the Ummah will have to indulge in blood letting on the gora scale before it settles down to peaceful existence?

Regards

anil #: "Thanks for enumerating historical facts."

you are most welcome........it is always good to stick with facts, and not with fiction.......though you seemed to have missed the point i was making.......

eu took centuries to come into existence......it occured when europe was totally exhausted from violence and destruction of all kind......hence eu may not be the best example to offer to other people......

the amount of violence in the ummah - today or otherwise - is far far less than there ever was in the eu......had it been at the same levels, historically, chowk would have been an all mulsim site, much like spain became an all christian country.....(which would have made chowk quite boring by the way).....muslims coverted my ancestors, but spared yours......had we been in eu, both you are i would be christians, today.......

in any case, one should stick with facts......be they in the past, present or future......

and as i keep trying to highlight to you, there are far far far more muslims, today, being killed by non-muslims than vice-versa.......it is in hundreds to one ratio in some cases!!.........

i am afraid, until you internalize and accept this one fact, your solutions and analysis will not be realistic and based on fact......this does not mean that the ummah should not reform.......but it is quite non-factual to make sweeping statements about, "destruction" and hang them on anyone - ummah or otherwise - when the facts - both historical and present - indicate otherwise.....as does mathematical analysis of destruction carried out against others......

so your statements, do not jive with history nor with mathematics.......(this, of course, doesn't mean that ummah should not change......)

but it is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, when someone from the usa lectures on destruction and killing of civilians.......your comments will, thus, only appeal to anyone in the ummah, if you first acknowledge the mathematical facts that i mentioned above......

Re: # 107

You liar he was always in the League but was also a congressman.

Make no mistake I am all for Jinnah's Pakistan and would have been more for it if you would have taken your scumbag cousins with you.

All I am trying to say is Jiinah did not count for a rat's fart amongst the average Joe Muslims till he said Islam khatre main and said one book,one prophet one people.

What is the gr8 difference between him and muhammed ali who said the same to preserve the khilafat and became the darliung of the muslim masses except that muhd ali used Islamic terminolgies and the kuran and this guy used other things like customs,language, dress, diet but the war cry was the same.

Islam khatre main.

Sanatani

Anyway if the product of an elite paki education is an intellectually dishonest joker like you you then I no longer feel contempt for your country but pity

#84 Masadi

i) developing economies have higher growth rates… and two very large economies China and India are part of it they stand in the top 4 in terms of PPP basis …. So the growth engine of world economy are China and India.
ii) It is not just the western multinationals running business I ndeveloping countries……. with 30,000 employers in UK…… TATA group is one of the largest employers in UK

hamidm mian #: ".... but you forgot one thing - ppp is a sindhi party and pml (a-z) is a punjabi party ... that might explain their leadership instead of this feudal/pir bs ....."

....i suggest you stick with you analysis of us politics....you have been so accurate on that......ppp, under zulfiqar bhutto swept punjab (moreso than it swept sind......do check the elections results)

do check up on ppp's top leadership......ppp, itself portrays itself as a national party and not a sindhi party.....its feudal and pir leadership does not come from sindh alone.......nearly fifty percent of its top feudal and pir leadership comes from southern punjab - which is also feudal and pir.......yusuf raza and shah mehmood are southern punjabis (as is abida hussain and fakhr imam).....and the original ppp member faisal saleh hayat....

pml also has a southern punjab base and a sindhi base (to some extent).....however, most of that has now left and joined pml-q (which was my point)