Fight Against The Emergeny Continues

Re: # 49 Urstruly,
I don't know if it is in their platform. Plus, it is not as if MQM represents all urdu speakers, or that all Urdu speakers are MQM supporters. I am not.

The issue of stranded Biharis does not have to be looked with the prism of mohajir/non-mohajir. It is a moral/humanitarian issue. They are Pakistanis who want to be in Pakistan. Frankly I am apalled and outraged the way Pakistanis have abandoned them. It was/is shameful and cowardly.

Re: # 49 honest answer is ZERO, none.
Some times problms are not solved to keep them alive.

Re: # 48

I have one question: Despite being 80% stronger in sindh assembly for 5 years why MQM never brought up the issue of stranded pakistanis; as a matter of fact it did nothing. Why is it Punjab's responsibil;ity now?

Re: # 47 There was mistake agreed but 50% I said if you read.
Now just by numbers yes it can be more but Karchi, and urban areas is MQM areas and generally urban votes are more valued. Just like NY is more important than Washinton.
Going by strict numbers is not democratic way. But I agree in future slowly things will be similar to proportion way type. That is not good for sindhis as if just demography then MQM will start ingress of biharis and bengals etc to correct the trend. But its little injustice to natives, It is time fot all to forgive and forget if Sindhis will start accepting mohajirs as Sindhis all problems will be solved. Mohijirs have already accepted native sindhis as sindhis resident of Sindh from start. Now is time for Sindhis to respond similar ways more in brotherhood and sisterhood as when they welcomed mohajirs.
Long live sindh and children of sindh who speak urdu and sindhi, and they become rich and good future, they are like two eyes of Sindh Dharati.
I over all agree your contension , but patience is equired by sindhi speakers, things are moving.

Re: # 46

Out of 54 million population of sindh, only 10 million or less are urdu speakers. Assuming that they all subscribe to MQM ideology, your math is off by about 30%. Shouldn't non-mohajirs be getting 80% vs 20% instead.

Re: # 42 You have point. Last cabinet give justice to local sindhis in demographic sense, they had less prepresentation.This time Mr.Hussain also said we need take along with sindhi speakers and do better for Sindh Dharati.
When he said he had deep voice and he almost stopped in sadness and choked when he remembered about karachi when he was talking to elders and to people of karachi and intelluctuals type.
From 20% this time sindhis will get 50% is my feeling. Now BB has gone and mqm feels bad for loss for sindhi speakers. Now bothsides are in somber mood. MQM has to support president and president gave concessions and generous to Sindhi speakers by allowing PPP to win elections.Also by issueing NRO he has personally helped sindhi leaders both Asif and bb. It time for new elections and new govt suppotred by PPP and MQM and inpart they supporting president. Time to mve nation ahead and stopping politics which is mean business. Pakistan needs stability, and peacefull things and PPP +MQM got supporting president will do that. Everybody has to compromise to have some reasonable govt and usa srongly supports is incidental but important.
MQM+ Sindhi unity is medicine/ tonic for Sindh

Re: # 43 Bhai jamadar

I've already appologized to all tree toads.

skeptical 321,

On chowk one has to take a stand, and has to be extreme in the arguments to make a point. Other wise it will be all sitting around and sipping chay

Re # 41

(people have will to fight back)

Maulana Urstruly (pbuh) is already fighting back in his inimitable style- by contributing tax dollars to the GoUS.

(and several generations are still alive who believe in the Pakistan being the leader of whole Muslim ummah.)

Lots of people believe in aliens too!

(Pakistan may be reduced to stone age)

Which is what many of the tree toads on chowk want.

Regards

Re: # 38 madni

I hope you do not belive this self serving tripe for your own good. Are you sure Sindhis just can't wait to get 20% ministerships while having 80% seats in the assembly again- just like it happened in the last facade of this dictator?

Re: # 40 Viqarm

I find Prof. Michel Chossudovsky's thesis closer to the truth. Pakistan is THE most important country in the whole Muslim world - people have will to fight back and several generations are still alive who believe in the Pakistan being the leader of whole Muslim ummah. This is a test for both - the neocolonial aggression and Muslim ideologues. THis is an existential struggle - the final phase of the battle between eternal oppression and the yearning to live free. Unfortunately, one of our strong arm i.e. fouj has now caught the gangrene; it has turned on its own body that sustains it. But that does not stop the battle. Good soldiers cut their gangrenous limb off themselves and march on, fight on for this fight is for the supremacy of La illaha illahllah o Mohammad ur Rasool Allah. Fouj or no fouj; Pakistan may be reduced to stone age; but it is manifest destiny that colonialism will be burried here for good for the rest of human history. Insha-allah.

Re: # 37 UrsTruly Sahib,
You may be interested in reading the following two articles and taking a second look at the pictuer in light of the theses propunded therein:

http://despardes.com/articles/2008/20080126-bhutto-imperial.htm

h ttp://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7705

http://www.glob alresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7746

I would be interested in your view, and those of Zeemax Sahib and Amin Sahib as well.

Regards.

Re: # 38 I mean to say please DO NOT REFER MQM AS terrorist party

Re: # 37 Please refer MQM as "terrorist". Yes it is made up of Hindustani Muslims not terrorist. Quaid E Awam Altafbhai is deemphasising ethinic factors and is becoming normal party of middle and hard working people from urban centers. Its not now ethinic oriented as before they consider Sindh Dharati as motherland. Without help of Altafbhai what Sindhis want more freedom to in province and control on wealth created in Sindh/Karachi is not possible. But Sindhi accept as Altafbhai as brother, comrade to achieve freedom from oppression he can deliver it. There is no strong powerful orgination as MQM and they control stragec mountain tops ie Karachi. Altafbhai is best to friends and worst to enemies

The players at the chessboard are as follows:

1. Fouj
2. Politicians including sirkari moulvis, jagirdars, drug pushers, Qabza Group, embezzlers, ethnic terrorits (MQM)and war profiteers.
3. The civil society (how much I loath this terminology)
4. Militants on the west bank of River Indus.
5. Apolitical majority in Pakistan.

Fouj & Politicians

Among these players fouj #1 and politicians #2 form an evil nexus, who are trying their best to preeserve this crumbling system of corruption, oppression, fouj's supremacy. Take for example testicles like NS and his brother whose nomination papares have been rejected by the govt machinery. Either of them cannot take part in elections yet they are trying their best to legitimize a system that feeds on the blood of Pakistanis. Take the testicles like zardari ( and other jagirdars of PPP) for example, who had their wife and slaughtered by fouj in front of whole Pakistan in living day lights and yet they are trying their best to preserve the system.

The ethnic terrorists have already starting to assert themselves by regularly setting the properties and industries on fire on daily basis. They jhave also started assasinating leadership of other ethnicities on full swing, making sure that they emerge as the only godfathers in this so called mock election.

The Civil Society

This is a group of lawyers, judges, and political activists from the middle class. This is the last hope for Pakistan to avoid the guilotines and firing squads that are coming full swing. They are fighting their own battle of truth and uprightness alone. Tragedy of Pakistan is that not a single politician has given them any suppotrt other than lip service. The other powerful lobies like students, trade unions, an media has been conquered by fouj already. The leadership in these areas is dominated by fouji touts and charlatans who try their best to not let these groups make trouble for their masters.

Militants on the west bank of River Indus everywhere.

This is a giift from Hramzadi paki fouj to its Western masters. They have imported the war of Afghanistan into Pakistan to give relief to their m/f masters. This insurgency cannot be crushed and cannot be subdued. As a matter of fact the west bank of river INdus has become the new defacto buffer state between neocolonial aggression and the freedom fighters. The final result of this struggle cannot be anything but a biforaction of Pakistan at Indus. Their territorial ambitions are limited at Indus. Their struggle cannot activitae an active resistance on east bank against fouj and the oppressive class. Why should they even bother for the people whose blood knows nothing but vassalage.

Apolitical majority in Pakistan.

This majority is in fact the pressure cooker. The anarchy in the aftermath of BB's assasination exhibits the ferocity of anarchism this group can create. They are hungary, marginalized, and oppressed. They look at their leadres and find nothing but corruption and compalceny. But it will be naive to think that this group will forever remain a non threat.

#35 Posted by viqarm,

There's no spin yet. There will be when he's released. In the meantime he has a nice view of Rawal Lake!

Re: # 31 Zee Sahib,
I was under the impression that Fazloo was meeting and negotiating with him. Has his release been confirmed by the GOP? What's their spin on it?

here is what the daily times editorial says about negotiating with the local bedouins :

"There is speculation that the coming negotiations with Baitullah Mehsud may involve a bargain over the coming elections, that he should let the country have the polls without suicide-bombings for something that Islamabad may offer him in return. (PMLN leader Mr Nawaz Sharif has already cancelled his Liaquat Bagh rally after being threatened.) But such a deal will not be to the advantage of Pakistan in the long run as it might allow the warlord to regroup and consolidate his terrorist network and present a much bigger and more difficult challenge to the new elected government. *"

Re: # 31

zeemax,

.... i agree with you .... the government wants to go ahead with this 'jhulro' election (shabaz sharif's definition) so that they can claim legitimacy ........ but negotiating with terrorists is a bad move even if they plan to kill the bas*a5#d later .... you must kill the serpent in the egg .... the poor people of pakistan will pay the price

The educated pakistanis have some kind of a mental block, they believe that taliban are bad, and jihadi take over has to be resisted or at least should not be considered as a real possiblity. The fact is that there is nothing terrible about taliban take over of pakistan.

Firstly, the crime rate will decline, there will be no more mobile phone snatchings and random killings.

There will be no more drug problems.

At last the madrassas can take over the few schools remaining.

The sale of hair oils and other beard grooming products will mushroom.

No more garish wedding ceremonies and womens clothings.

Domestic consumer demands will decline and the and reliance on foreign aid will evaporate.

Pakistanis will live happily ever after.

The world will de-nuke pakistan and will be fenced and left to live happily ever after.

What is wrong with any of the above and at last MAJ can well and truly rest in peace. ZAB will also rest in peace because teh pakistanis would have eaten grass during the transition.

#28 Posted by jayp,

jayp is right. I just wrote on another board that Maulana Abdul Aziz (remember?) has been moved from the Adyala jail to a nice State Guest House overlooking Rawal Lake pending his unconditional release. All charges dropped.

Why? He's a terrorist, no? Why does the State want to release him unconditionally?

Because his release was a major demand for a ceasefire by the Taliban. The GOP has been soundly defeated.

#25 Posted by tahmed32,

I opened a thread for you on Chowk Connect on UP. Still awaiting your response!

Re: # 25

tahmed,

....... hosni does not wear a uniform and mush was going to give it up in any case - that was the plan all along ...... and he did it on his own terms ......the droopy-eyed cj continues to make a fool out of himself but he is saving on rent by occupying government housing ........ the lawyers are making fools out themselves by appearing in court in front of judges who they don't 'recognize' ........ and you continue to live in a fool's paradise with imaginary houris and streams of milk and honey .......

...... i hope your dreams come true, but based on my track record with cindy crawford i can tell you that wet dreams seldom come true .......

hosni musharraf zindabad !
cindy crawford murdabad !

When mushy overthrew nawaz, the pakistanis where happy. Look at the posts on chowk when this happened. Now you see the state.

When the supreme court ordered the reinstatement of teh CJ, again the pakistanis were happy. Nothing changed, the CJ has been permanently removed.

Now the elections are coming, again the pakistanis are on a fantasy trip.

Take it from me, nothing will change.

Pakistan is on a definite and non-retraceable path of jihadisation. The pak army is again going for peace deal with the jihadis, which teh americans have rejected.

There will be more predater attacks, more american operatiosn within pakistan and the army and the people of pakistan will be bombed by the jihadis.

No elections will change this. The only people who can change this are the educated pakistanis on chowk. And they have to follow the words of wisdom from me. Support teh jihadis

Re: # 21Posted by hamidm2 on February 8, 2008 10:10:36 am

[ - twenty years ago, we were against my sister marrying him ....] Which side of "we" is this? The pathaan side or the sikh side?

Re : tahmed #25
“Let me repeat: the LAWYERS HAVE ALREADY WON.

Let me repeat the reasons I say this:
1. Mush and his wardi are separated (this was the major issue last year, remember?)
2. Mush is no longer patting himself on the back about "catching hundreds of terrorists" (habeas corpus was the second major issue that the Chief Justice put his foot down on).”

“But the Chief Justice is already the winner. Mush is already the loser.”

You have said this many times, but I am not that sure. The chief justice has lost his job, is restricted to his house. Mush has lost his uniform, but has his job.
The jehadi’s have been let loose on the paki’s for a reason. Mush will come out as a knight in shining armor at some point in time and clean them out and a few of his opponents, just a few opponents and things would return to normal.

I would be interested in your thoughts,

Regards,

Faruk

hamidm: I mentioned this before, but clearly reality is filtered out by your uva-blocking glasses. So, let me try again - the lawyers have already won.

Let me repeat: the LAWYERS HAVE ALREADY WON.

Let me repeat the reasons I say this:
1. Mush and his wardi are separated (this was the major issue last year, remember?)
2. Mush is no longer patting himself on the back about "catching hundreds of terrorists" (habeas corpus was the second major issue that the Chief Justice put his foot down on).

So, it doesnt matter if everyone you know stays at home on Feb 18. What is left are minor issues - how long does mush get to cling to his hollow "position"?

Or else there are new issues - Will the military continue to retreat to its barracks (as kiyani and co. seem to be attempting to do), or will it seek yet another round of military rule under a new general?

But the Chief Justice is already the winner. Mush is already the loser. PPP can chose between becoming irrelevant (as it seems destined to become under current leaders) or splitting off. NS seems to get it with his emphasis on restoring the Chief Justice.

So - worst case we will have politics as usual after february. And best case we will have the Supreme Court restored, along with the spirits of the nation, and the next prime minister will focus on moving forward from there. But the dreams of the "man who would be king" musharaf of becoming another arab-style king/dictator are gone along with his uniform.

Re: # 21

Hamidm Sahib:

"- twenty years ago, we were against my sister marrying him...."

Shorter memories are very helpful. Especially as the old age arrives.

hamidm mian#: civil society never votes.....so that is nothing new......i can make a bet, less than 20% (if that) of chowk pakistanis will vote.......i will not vote, because tehreek-i-insaaf is not in the election......

all said and done, it is only the unwashed masses who have a stake in pakistan, as that is all they have......the rest of us have one foot in detroit and one toe in islamabad.....

.....i think these elections are do or die for pakistan....if they don't work out, then there will be huge turbulence, as there is no single force that can dominate everyone else........

.......musharraf cannot dominate like he did before.....but he has power......lawyers and media cannot dominate but do have power....maulvis cannot dominate but have power.....same for taliban.....same for ppp, pml(n and q), mqm etc.....same for the groups that boycotted....

......in such a situation, everyone will be fighting everyone......it will not be so easy for musharraf to become hosni......pakistani society, though not as politically evolved as usa (or even india) is significantly more evolved than arab states.......the pakistani life of a dictator is, at best, around 10 years; not 25 as is the case in egypt......

so this is a decisive election......unfortunately, i think the usa is going to play a major role......they have always wanted a joint ppp-musharraf govt., with musharraf calling the shots......they can get it through a ppp-pml(q)-musharraf partnership......usa doesn't want nawaz or maulvis.......lets see whom ppp sides with......benazir was siding with musharraf......i wonder who zardari and amin fahim side with..........

in the end, it is the army and usa who decide the govt. in pakisatn.....i used to think this was an exageration......i know better now......

Re: # 17

tahmed,

... and one more thing ..... i don't 'ridicule' the lawyers ..... it is their impotence that i feel sorry for and i don't like to back loosers ..... if i felt they had a chance, i would support them ........ like i said, let's be pragmatic ....... there is no glory in being a looser - even vicious elementary school soccer players don't believe that crap ........ everyone loves a winner

hosni musharraf zindabad !

romair mian and tahmed,

..... i did one of my spot surveys and came up with the conlusion that no one is going to vote on the 18th ! ...... i have talked to over a dozen people - all of who belong to 'civil' society and have always voted in the past - and no one wants to risk their life to go to the polling station ....... the only exception is one of my brothers-in-law who is a drawing room ppp 'activist' and also a fatalist - twenty years ago, we were against my sister marrying him ........

... so, based on my survey, civil society is not going to vote ....... the result will be determined by the unwashed masses who have nothing to loose except their lives (which, at 100 rupees a day, really arn't worth much) ....... and, besides, they are used to standing in line for atta, chini, dal and going home disappointed ..........

Re: # 18

tahmed,

good, then we are in this together ! ... now, say:

hosni musharraf zindabad !

Re: # 16

romair,

... for once i can agree with you .....

hosni musharraf zindabad !


......... and you are right - civil society is a joke (er) .....

hamidm: also, please dont assume that you have a bigger stake in Pakistan than I do. Such assumptions about other posters' real lives is so bulleyaesque, so military captainish!!

hamidm #14 Whether or not you think egypt (which I in fact visited many years ago, and would never dream of giving up beautiful Pakistan for that dusty crowded city of cairo full of loud-mouthed arabs with hands out for your wallet right from the airport official down to the cab driver) is a better place to live in than Pakistan is not relevant.

Yesterday it was mush the rising sun (and no, coining phrases like "goons in khaki" is neither a particularly novel new phrase or does it change your basic support for the military rule of mush and ridicule of the lawyers) you were worshipping. Today it is kiyani.

You need to mend your ways my friend. Catch up with the rest of Pakistan. Learn the value of the rule of law from the lawyers - rather than the value of being oversmart from the captains and majors.

here is a scenario: - the elections will be rigged, however, they will be rigged cleverly........

....in a fair election, ppp gets the hightest votes, pml(n) gets the second highest, according to the polls, and pml(q) gets clobbered......

....however, ppp is allowed a fair poll, but the elections are rigged against pml(n) in favor of pml(q).....ppp gets 5% more vote that its normal 30%.....so it gets 35%....

lets say pml(n) was to get 25% and pml(q) was to get 10%....this gets swapped.....pml(q) gets 25% and pml(n) gets 10%......

ppp complains a bit but not much as it gets more votes than it normally does....pml(n) is the only one complaining, however it is ditched by the ppp......then ppp is offered the pmship and everything else....but they have to form an alliance.......they cannot form one with pml(n) and get more than 50%....

....the usa puts pressure on ppp and musharraf threatens pml(n) leaders to defect.......eventually ppp agrees to form an alliance with pml(q), with certain restrictions, i.e. chaudhries are out etc.....

so the americans get what they want......musharraf stays in power, as he is the only pakistani leader who will keep going on with the military actions in the usa's gwot.....hwowever, he now gets a civilian moderate face........

.....ppp gets power, which is what all politicians want.....and it gets its pm and most of the ministries......it runs sindh in a coalition with mqm.....punjab in a coalition with pml(q).....the reason used by ppp is that this is what benazir wanted and that they need to continue the gwot and rid pakistan of extremism.....

.americans open up the aid faucet to musharraf and ppp and life goes on....status quo continues.....pml(n) is totally down and out and realizes that it should have stuck with the apdm and boycotted the elections.......the judges are retired, and musharraf is given indemnity by a 2/3rd vote.....

......there is one joker in the pack......pakistani civilian society has now matured.....the lawyers movement and media would keep going at the above setup, and it will be very difficult for a non-military govt. to be as brutal with them as musharraf was.......

tahmed,

.... in case you haven't been to egypt - it is a much nicer place to live than pakistan ....... and hosni has been around for ever .......

..... ummmmm ! ...... the more i think about it, the more i like it .... musharraf and mubarak - they sound kind of alike ... don't they ........ however i do wish they were more like the south korean generals or general pinochet, for that matter ...... even suharto (pbhuh) and his technocrats weren't all that bad ........ there is more than one way to skin a cat ...... unfortunately, there is only one way to skin a camel - the baitullah mehsud way ....

Re: # 13

tahmed,

sigh ! ..... look, i have written as many posts against musharraf as anyone else on chowk .... remember, i coined the term "goons in khaki" which hasn't become as universal as 'horrible hindoos' but is still in fairly common usage on the chowk .......

........ but i am a realist and i know my people - i am one of them ........ i still have one foot in pakistan (my retirement home has passed the plinth level) and all (bar none) of my family lives there ........ so unlike you, i have a real vested interest in the well-being of the unwashed uncivil masses and the washed-up civil society .....

..... let us wait for the elections and see what happens ........ with a less than 20% turnout (plus another 20% stuffed ballots) we will have her own hosni mubarak in place .........

that is why i say "general kiyani zindabad !" ........ he is our only hope (other than baitullah mehsud)

... so forget about the droopy-eyed cj and the unemployable lawyers and join in me in calling it like it is :

general kiyani zindabad !

.........and just in case he doesn't come through:

baitullah mehsud zindabad !

Hamidm #10 Your attitude towards fellow Pakistanis(i.e. that most are too poor to matter one way or another, anyone who has any desire to see things improve is a starry-eyed fool, and the only "heroes" are the sheikh rashids and musharrafs) is unfortunately all too common among the Pakistani "elite" (see pavocavalry below,e.g.), particularly the "oversmart" military-type.

Musharraf thought the same way - and has therefore been steadily pushed from the all-powerful dictator he was an year ago into the miserable irrelevance he has increasingly become (his last hope being being able to pull off a "deal" with one of the mainstream parties, barring that getting the hell out of Pakistan to live out his life on his stolen riches in the west). As the sacrifices of thousands of Pakistanis over the past year have shown, you and mr mush are on a different wave-length than the reality of Pakistan. Pakistanis are not arabs who tolerate kings and king-wannabes (as is true across the middle east from morocco thru libya, syra, jordan, saudi, egypt). Pakistanis have a large and growing middle class that is beholden to no one and dont tolerate fools and dictators for too long - as they have shown over and over again. You were wrong on musharraf a few months back, and you are wrong on kiyani today. Pakistanis will be free - no thanks to you and me - and many thanks to the thousands of brave Pakistanis who form the thin line of gray suits and bloodied heads that is holding firm in defense of Pakistan from the likes of the scoundrel musharraf.

#10 Posted by hamidm2:

Hamid,

You have offended me enough. For all these years you have been inviting urstruly for a drink .... never me. I talk Argentinian Merlot and you tell me you have given up red wine ... two weeks later you invite urstruly again. Invite me for a drink first and we can then plan our Pakistan trip together. Till then just recite the Urstruly's "toad poem".

hamid writes "general kiyani zindabad ! "

F general kiyani and the rest of the army thugs

Re: # 8

GT,

.... you are a hopeless romantic ! .... come and visit pakistan and i will show you that 97% of civil society (that is people who take bathe daily) do not care as long as pizza hut doesn't get bombed and onions and tomatoes are available in the market .......... the unwashed masses who make up more than 90% of the total population don't count - they are busy worrying about finding atta, chini and dal ...... i am beginnig to think that these shortages were created by the government to keep these people busy so that they don't have to worry about silly things like the emergency .........

.... as the title shows, this was not a real emergency - it is an 'emergeny' and god knows what kind of genie will emerge out of it .........

What's going on with the editing at Chowk? Even if you might have reviewed the article, at least you could have paid attention to the title. E m e r g e n c y.

I have not even read the article yet, the title threw me off. . . .

Dear Faris Kasim,

It is after a long time that I have read something optimistic about Pakistan. You guys are doing a great job and are the true heroes of Pakistan, though unrecognized and unsung. You do not have the romantic charisma of the militants, but you have the steel required to fight the long fight. Your fight does not get reported in the media because yours is the true fight that sends a chill down the collective spine of the ruling oligarchy and its minions. You get ridiculed as an unrealistic lot by armchair generals and political pundits because they themselves lack your dedication, ability to make unappreciated sacrifices and genuinely strong beliefs. Simply stated, you are the heroes not only of Pakistan but our collective futures.

its not fair to call any one bewakoof , as if you are a genius.

so we have relatives of general kiani here.

these hindus are better than murtads like many muslims.

Re: # 5

bewakoof!,

.... pakis are not stupid like the horrible hindoos - we are pragmatic people

general kiyani zindabad !

all the protesting seems to have petered out....doesn't look like the pakis have the stomach to force change.

well..pakis were dancing in the streets when nawaz was overthrown..so they deserve what they get...made your bed and all that..

ideally its all very correct but the fact is that the same political order is continuing.

the tragic part is that the majority province punjab is hopeless.its full of opportunists that are always ready to join any dictator.

the civil servants and he police of this province will join anyone for their advancement.

i dont see any fight .may be some committed guys are doing it.there is no party that is for radical reform.nawaz sharif represents the business classes and the PPP is no longer that revolutionary party that it had appeared to be in early 70s.

pakistan's fate is to be ruled by crooks and thugs.whether they are in the khaki or in mufti clothes.

Judges are refusing to bow in front of the omnipotent military authorities and members of civil society, whether they are doctors, lawyers, journalists, businessmen or students, all are fighting for a constitutional and democratic system of governance.

/////////////////

Faris mian. None of those will help. The most draconian of teh islamic laws were introduced by ZAB, democratically elected. He only declared the ahmadias as non muslims.

It was Nawaz shariff again democraticall elected who introduced the sharia law, defeated by a single vote in the pak senate.

Benazir by all accounts was the most corrupt. Elections will change nothing, change will come only through foreign intervention. That will come only after jihadis come to power.

SO if you are concerned about pakistan future, support the jihadis

If the people are really serious this time, if the politicians and the ex-generals truly repentant, if the COAS really sincere about disengaging army from the country's politics - and all these are big IFs - then I agree that it is all worthwhile and there is indeed hope.

I guess the first real sign of how real all this is, is if the elections are held on February 18/08 and are indeed free and fair. Let us see.

Kasim sahib,

(The collective struggle against the Emergency must continue, not only for the real judges to regain their positions and to break apart the shackles of the PEMRA Ordinance)

This is the easy part!

(establish a cohesive and progressive education system, an effective infrastructure of health care, sanitation, water, economic welfare and equal security to all citizens of Pakistan.)

Sadly this is not so easy. India has had a functioning democracy of sorts, judges and all that but India's record on this is as poor if not worse than Pak. In fact this part may have nothing to do with democracy and rule of law at all. Authoritarian states in Eastern Asia have done much better than democracies and semi-democracies of the Third World.

Regards