American Muslims and Presidential Elections 2008

hamza
You see now you don't spare me b/c I showed you the exact mirror of your self righteousness and hilarious thing is , here you're wasting your time for some nonsense issue , frankly which is not even any issue....who is more incoherent?

I don't even interact with you b/c right from the start I knew you're not my type...your kind of mind set is absolutely NO, NO for my kind.

But, always to my surprise even though you always undermine me by calling me doll , sweet lady blah, blah, blah and then you drag me down by undermining my views on any issue , still you waste your PRECIOUS time in opening threads about me and in responding to my posts which are never directed to you....LOL

Who is proving himself more INCOHERENT here? Just think about it.

Whenever I come up with anything, you always start your personal attacks on me.....if you think I am not intelligent like you're then you shouldn't attack me personally , you should ignore my posts and views.

You should focus more on Sharia, on sexist remarks for other stranger ladies on chowk, on fighting with Indian Hindus and calling maan behen gaalian as you always do.

I don't wish to interact with a sexist and bigot like you.

And I request you to mind your own business and move on. From my side I will never interact with a chauvenistic sexist like you.

And I am disappointed that some Pakistanis have your typical mind set and that makes me more sad to see such a jack ass attitude on annonymous web sites....

And please, try not to patronize me in any way...Just leash your self and learn to respect others views as well.

Re: # 145

Zeena:

Persons like you will be able to change Hamza sahibs or his next generation. Just don't give up on them. I highly doubt you will ever tolerate your son talking down his sisters. That is where you will tackle not Hamza but their perpetuation.

My point in support of Hamza, was only about poverty being inherited from generation to generation. It is a social disease, as bad as AIDS virus.

This has infected white coal mining towns of Wales in Britain to Appalachians , Blue Mountains in Carolinas, to African-American ghettos in developing countries. Among hindus, they are even exalted and worshiped (somewhere in Bihar) as Daridra (poor) Narayan (god). Many social scientists studied this passing of poverty from generation to generation. Believe it or not, destruction of family unit, perpetuation of single parenthood without knowledge of who and where the father is has a lot to do than the color. This documentary that I saw had traced a guy called Noddy (very white) in Wales and the effect of generational poverty.

Zeena jee ..u have praised me incessantly in the past. And i have appreciated it. However what you seem to want in return is endorsement of your lunacies, which i have respectfully denied. I keep saying that you are a good woman, i am sure you are a great doctor as well, you have told us that you are a world class marathon runner, and i believe that. You have not given me any reason to believe that you are a smart woman when it comes to politics or common sense, and i say it how i see it. My apologies for that but i try not to become part of a fraternity of chow where i have to support my frat. brothers on all there stupidities. I have been there and done that, but i am trying to grow out of that.

majumdar: the point of my post is that the rich go free in Pakistan while the poor are punished for theft. so please re-evaluate your comment.

Yes zeena we know you are never on chowk and we are all losers for being here. I am sure ur daddy sent over a chottaa in jahayz so he could respond on ur behalf on chowk while u r saving the world out there...that would explain the comical errors in grammar and incoherency ...but i digress. Please understand that i have never said that I am Einstein, merely suggesting that you are a little bit out of your league when you are discussing these complex matters.

It would be futile to discuss the highly sophisticated judicial process of Shariah. I will tell you that Omer RAW suspended the punishment for stealing while there was famine in the land, state wasnt able to provide employment opportunities and basic necessities to ALL its citizens so it suspended some of the punishments, there is no cookie-cutter, ready to serve Islamic justice, cases are heard, evidence is presented and if it is determined that someone was steeling because they had a baby dying out of hunger than i assure u the thief is not sent to the gallows.

In principle, unemployment has to be 0% in order to enforce the punishment of qatay-yad(chopping off hands). Islam doesnt enforce punishments in a vacuum, please dont get confused with what happens in saudi arabia, for the most part it isnt Islam, at least not the kind i believe in.

FGB #147 The concept that "muslims hate the west" which underlies your post is too general and vague to be meaningful. You need to focus on specific instances, e.g.:

9/11: This was the culmination of a decade-long provocations by ben laden to the US. You need to consider what caused ben laden to engage in this plot.

Middle east: This is the long-running feud that is best understood as a land feud lasting generations (in the tradition of the hatfields and mccoys feud). Not in the tradition of the european pogroms of jews (which has been a european disease, and jews have in fact lived peacefully in muslim-controlled lands for centuries without being harassed the way they were in europe).

Iraq war: Muslims are no different than the millions of americans who are similarly appalled by the gross mismanagment of the war by Bush's incompetent leadership.

Hope this helps.

Abu bhai,

Many US Pakis/Injuns/Asians and immigrants from other developing nations are from humble/middle class background who have done well in US in spite of being a minority becuase of their own hard work and desire to have a better living there.

Tahmed sahib,

Theft is theft irrespective of whether it is committed by a poor person or rich person. Both shud be punished, esp the rich thieves first.

Regards

You said: "This is still a good country. By and large it won't threaten your freedoms and your rights as a citizen as long as you don’t break the law of the land."

One of the laws of the land is its 1st Amendment, the first of its individual Bill of Rights. It says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Some have said, this means that the secular American gov't the state, is officialy, in writing, unguided by any morality, no matter what religious freedom its people have. It is, officially, not a theocracy, not guided by morality, and therefore, must be feared and loathed and mistrusted by those living in theocracies or defacto theocracies.

Is the very form of American government, this 1st Amendment, a part of the cause of mistrust, between thw Muslim world(excuse me for using that too simple term) and the secular West? I mean, to what extent, if any, do religious leaders in Pakistan, Iran, regard the very form of American government as a political threat to their own context?

I ask this question, because I once asked of it in Bangladash, in Dhaka and Chittagong, and my hosts told me they had been taught from an early age that America was officially, in writing, a state without morality, something to be feared and loathed. I know Bangladesh is nominally a secular nation, not an Islamic Republic, but in fact, it is a defacto Islamic republic, in the sense of influence and ability to declare Hartal to prove who is really running the nation.

If the 1st Amendment itself is a problem that influences the relationship between America and the Muslim world, then it is safe to say that Americans are largely unaware of this aspect. I mean, AMericans understand the 1st Amendment, but may not understand its impact on how America is viewed.

I understqand this may not even be an issue, I don't know the truth of this, I am asking for others opinion.

best,
FGB

Zeena #144: I agree that in muslim countries no one will say "oh, well this person is from a poor background and that's why he stole"

However, they will say "oh, well this person is from a rich or powerful background and that's why he stole". And so we have wealthy loan defaulters, corrupt bureaucrats, military generals abusing their power, and so on.

Think about it.

#142 anil
Well, for you humza makes sense in his post. For me this guy is only proving himself more of a self righteous and also sexist.

I have been observing this guy and have come to this conclusion that he is gender biased and sexist and that's sad......

Anyway, I am not here to make my own case. This board is about American politics, not about Humza_Yousufzai's childish and naive views. Although Humza is a doll and sweet young teen with a brain which is a tremendous source of knowledge that all of us, women seem to be lacking( only in his view)...And think about it, when someone says such chauvenistic things , what kind of stuff he is? Big question mark.

If I don't agree with this guy, that makes me less of a knowledgeable....And if I say, yes, yes, yes to his pearls of wisdom then he will consider me intelligent. Quite intelligent and sensible approach with such a narrow mindedness.....

And also Humza
In real Islam, there is NO place for criminals regardless of their background.

If you committ any crime and you're caught red handed, in Islam they won't say ,"oh, well this person is from a poor background and that's why he stole".

Just think about it.

Hamza Yusafzai jii

As expected you are always very sharp in religious and political issues....Exactly, that's what I am pointing out.
And that's what self righteousness is....

Thank God I remain humble and I don't brag like you do and trust me that's the main point to deal with one's absurdness when that particular person have no insight and have no clue what he is talking about.

I don't have that much time like you to come and discuss some useless issues 24/7...........that doesn't make me or others less of knowledgeable.

That makes you more naive and innocent when you make this case about me without even knowing my view or me.

Now, look at this blunt childish(excuse me) statement that you made as always nothing new....
[[u n i both and most of pakistanis on these boards hail from that elite class that has been sucking the life out of the 90% of working class, one blood drop at a time.]]]

My husband and I are working really hard daily in USA for earning our daily livings. Same goes back when I was in Pakistan, my mother was an educationest and my father was a high court bar at law(attorney) who always worked hard with honesty and integrity(although my father was also from a feudal family , owner of many lands, but, he never sucked blood of any poor peasant)

Rather my family always believes in going forward and help troubled population more. But, sorry if anyone is a criminal I can't give him/her the benefit of doubt.....
That's me.

and I don't consider my self from any elite class. I am a middle class in USA and I was middle class in Pakistan.

Re: # 140

Hamza sahib:

Your post makes a lot of sense, other than when you call Zeena - a doll. Please recognize and respect this too.

#139 Posted by Zeena on February 13, 2008 4:43:42 pm


not only that I have seen htem on well fare and driving BMWs


why don't you go on well fare..then the government will give you a BMW too..they'll even throw in an added payment for your mental disability...

Zeena jee aap too naraz hii hogayeen. I maintain that u r a well meaning lady. You are not too sharp when it comes to politics, religion etc. but u r a good person regardless. You have no idea about the social dynamics and realities of growing up in projects. you wouldnt be able to understand how poverty and desperation are handed down for generations as ancestral property. In most instances its almost impossible to turn out anything but a criminal when u grow up in these circumstances. I am not saying it justifies there crime, all's i am saying is that u n i can never have any idea what its like to grow up poor. people who drive 50,000 dollar cars and are on welfare might be an exception, they are not the rule. I despise those who are born in money and prosperity at the expense of others way more than petty thieves, with all due respect ...u n i both and most of pakistanis on these boards hail from that elite class that has been sucking the life out of the 90% of working class, one blood drop at a time.

Also Ease up on giving us your resume
...theres a saying..nayki kar darya mein daal..other than that u r a doll.

Re:-#133 Hamza_yusufzai sahib
With all due respect, you posted that don't take me seriously b/c in your opinion I am just an old sweet lady with No brains and with no knowledge on any issue...

That's OK with me, b/c I don't wish you to be like minded on any of such issues. If, you think I am not knowledgeable enough for your higher set intellectual standards, then my only request for your genius mind is to ignore an old sweet lady and don't waste your precious time on my posts and move on with your highly intellectual discourse with other like minded interactors.
Good luck
PS:- But, I also expect intellectual honesty from you as well. Try NOT to twist my views. Nothing makes me mad, except when someone like you who claims to (be highly well versed, master of all trades and always self righteous kind of a guy) starts mis interpreting my exact views on certain issues unfortunately that's what you have been doing in the past as well.

I challenge you to show me where did I generalize Blacks? as all are lazy bums on welfare?

Yes, I said it on several occasions that I don't judge people based on their race, gender, religion, caste, nationality, color or ehtnicity......they're all created equal by God(Almighty). Yes, I can't respect those people who don't show proper conduct.
With blacks I have had my own bad experiences, I was mugged by blacks twice, My empty house was looted by three blacks who got caught in cameras, majority of the times I have experienced that blacks slurr more discriminatory remarks against Pakistanis than other races, they also try to take a black incompetent candidate over a competent Pakistani when ever they're given a chance, they'll always whine for being victims , well as a matter of fact they victimize other minority groups quite oftenly.. And also majority of them are on wellfare and that's the fact.......not only that I have seen htem on well fare and driving BMWs.....what a joke......

Anyway, I don't generalize people based on their color, yes I do point out when they show a mis conduct.....

Thanks for ignoring my response in future, b/c you and I are and will never be on the same page.