Voting For Change

...i don't think anyone could have scripted a better election for pakistan......i am going to have to slightly re-adjust some of my ratings on pakistan, now......i am raising it from sell to hold.....

all the people, i was supporting, for various different reasons, have won.....aitezaz has won, because his constituency (lawyers) are back on top......cj has won morally, and if he gets reinstated, he has won physically also.......yusuf gilani and javed hashmi have won (the later won three seats!!)....these two guys were jailed and humiliated by musharraf and the army to no end.....they were borderlined tortured as well.......without a trial they spent four and five years in jail, respectively......asfandyar wali has won......

the only guy who hasn't won is imran khan......i didn't vote, because the party i support didn't participate.....i suppose he has won morally, but lost politically......he would have won his seat in a landslide (an independent won in mianwali this time)......and with an alliance with pml-n, i think his party could have won around 10 seats (in punjab and nwfp)......anyways.....he remains the moral conscious of pakistan.......

ironically, politically, pakistan is now a center of liberalism (and borderline secularism), in an ocean of religious fundamentalism.......mma has won 3 (?) or so seats in NA......they had 63 last time!!.....nothing to be surprised about.....i had always stated that the number of seats for religious parties have, traditionally, been 3-5.....

so now the liberal forces (at least in their manifesto) are in power......ppp, anp, mqm.......pml(n) is center right......while in the neighborhood, things are different.......iran has a religious party in power.......india has one in opposition......afghanistan will have one in power and opposition......iraq has one in power and in opposition.......

how the world changes in one day.......

Romair,

{{{pakistan is now a center of liberalism (and borderline secularism)}}}

Indeed I am happy to hear that Pakistan is a secular state among a whole lot of fundoo nations (India included). 98% of the new NA consists of secular parties- PPP, PML factions, MQM, ANP et al. So we are soon going to read in newspapers that:

Islamic Republic of Pakistan becomes Republic of Pakistan.
Mention of Shariah, Sunna and Allah has disappeared from the Constt of Pakistan.
Hudood and Blasphemy Laws are repealed.
Pak does not care two hoots whether Ahmedis are Muslims or not.

Zeemax sahib, eat your heart out.

Regards

giving respect to all opinions , in my point of view we should not be so optimistic to this new assembly bcoz again same tried landlords and ethnic group on board and none of them has clear strategy to main problem that is WAR against Terror, if we will continue as USA wants then I doubt local Taliban issue will be resolve since USA will not allow any negotiation with Local Taliban, however restoration of judiciary and media will help Pakistan but again we should mae institution strong rather than individual like chaudhary Iftikhar who is also derivative of PCO and remain Silent for corruption, social injustice ,Jirga etc and missing people for more than four yrars but once he felt discomfort to his seat he smartly politicise thing with help of Ahtezaz Ahsan and emerge as Masiha for us but he never talk on Our traditional problem in Judiciary where Judges are being sold on daily basis and extending injustise to ommon people I will appreciate if they can really transform their commitment to reality.

Our big city Karachi results also confirmed how much we are divided on ethnic basis like PAshtun voted for ANP and Pathan Candidate of any Party, Punjabi voted for PML(N) or Punjabi candidate of other Party, Mohajir Voting for MQM or Mohajir candidate same like other ethnic groups , which is really alarming

majumdar #: Following is what will happen, i think, on the items you have raised:

"- Islamic Republic of Pakistan becomes Republic of Pakistan. (will not happen)

- Mention of Shariah, Sunna and Allah has disappeared from the Constt of Pakistan. (there isn't much mention, to begin with.......hence this will not happen)

- Hudood and Blasphemy Laws are repealed. (this can happen, if any of the political parties push it......mma is the only one which is fully in support of these, while pml-n partially supports them)

- Pak does not care two hoots whether Ahmedis are Muslims or not. (i doubt this will ever happen......this would be political suicide for any party)

.......i said liberal and, "borderline" secular.......there is no party in pakistan that is secular......pakistani voter is not secular......he is a liberal muslim......i would say very very liberal muslim......sufianic muslim.......you could say, kind of like a muslim who reads the quran and likes to watch indian actresses in rain scenes.....secularism doesn't allow for the former in the state, and theocracy doesn't allow for the later......

in any case, this election is beyond my expectations......even a cynic, like me, when it comes to feudalism and its hold on society has had to change some of his views.......pakistan's parliament is still feudal and pir based, but how the mighty have fallen......

- 23(?) of musharraf's sitting ministers have lost.....not a single sitting minister of pml(q) has won, i think.....these include the giant pirs, feudals and biradari candidates of pakistan......

- farooq leghari - a guy who is the tumandar of a baluch tribe, and literally, owns the land of his own and surrounding constituencies - barely won......and his son - a sitting IT minister - lost........

- chaudhry shujaat - the head of pml-q and master of biradari politics - lost......

- abida hussain's (pirni and feudal) whole family lost (husband and daughter)......albeit to another pir

- pml-n, with relatively unknown pirs and feudals, thrashed pml-q (and ppp) in punjab, who had all the known pirs and feudals on their side......

#2 Posted by majumdar,

Ok, time to clear the cobwebs in the minds of people who are jumping up and down over people like Fazloos' defeat.

What makes anyone believe the 'sarkari' mullahs represented or were promoting Islamisation? Why were they defeated in the first place? And with their defeat will the process stop?

These 'Sarkari' Mullahs lost precisely because they had betrayed the cause of Islamisation, and not because they had served it. Their voters felt cheated.

With these political mullahs distancing themselves from the Jamia Hafsa issue when these were in power and could have stopped the massacre, they actually helped sabotage the peaceful settlement. That finally sealed their fate and their followers turned towards Taliban instead.

Fazlur-Rahman himself said after elections that Lal Masjid was responsible for his defeat.

If Baitulah Mehsood was to contest elections, he would sweep the entire NWFP minus the Verkotey Vilayat regions.

I hope you simpletons get it now.

Romair,

{{Mention of Shariah, Sunna and Allah has disappeared from the Constt of Pakistan. (there isn't much mention, to begin with.......hence this will not happen)}}

Is the Objective Resolution a part of the Pak Constt. If I am not mistaken it begins with the line " All the sovereignty......"

(secularism doesn't allow for reading the Quran)

Who has told you this?

But as for the rest of the post, yes the right guys have won by and large.

Regards

Zee sahib,

#5

I know all of that. I was just pulling Romair's leg.

Regards

Re: # 5

"These 'Sarkari' Mullahs lost precisely because they had betrayed the cause of Islamisation, and not because they had served it. Their voters felt cheated.

With these political mullahs distancing themselves from the Jamia Hafsa issue when these were in power and could have stopped the massacre, they actually helped sabotage the peaceful settlement. That finally sealed their fate and their followers turned towards Taliban instead.

Fazlur-Rahman himself said after elections that Lal Masjid was responsible for his defeat.

If Baitulah Mehsood was to contest elections, he would sweep the entire NWFP minus the Verkotey Vilayat regions."

HMMMMMMMMM.

That's food for thought for idolators.
I think Zee Bhai is correct. The sarkari mullahs have lost - the Lal Masjid mullahs have won!!!

I think the writing on the wall is there - Pakistan is headed for complete Talibanization because the sarkari mullahs were all for "moderate Islam" of Hosni Musharaff but the mullahs of PML Q or N were all for Talibanization.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....we idolators need to be on out guards.

majumdar #: "Is the Objective Resolution a part of the Pak Constt. If I am not mistaken it begins with the line " All the sovereignty......"

..yes....nearly every document in pakistan begins like that.......people say bismillah in pakistan, not only in constitutions, but before they start eating; and before they fart; and also before they turn the vcr on to watch rain scenes......so you may not want to take words literally.......

pakistan is neither secular, nor theocratic.....i have been saying this for a while....and again and again it is proving to be true.......go to any remote corner of pakistan (and i have been to quite a few) and you will find two structures.......a mosque and a video shop.......

"secularism doesn't allow for reading the Quran)....Who has told you this?"

secularism doesn't allow it in the state......and pakistanis want some of it in the state also.....but not too much......

p.s. baitullah mehsud cannot win anything in pakistan.....he is a foreign phenomenon (foreign meaning afghanistan).......people in pakistan are against lal masjid maulvis, and they are against govts. that bomb such maulvis....these two are the two extremes of pakistan.......

this election has proven this.......anp and ppp have a strong anti-baituallah stance, and pml-n has a strong anti-lal masjid bombing stance........i agree with both......

pakistan needs to push out the baitullah mehsud and the lal masjid imams, as both are in violation of pakistan's laws......but it should not do so by bombing them or by following us diktats.......once again, this election has proven this.......

Romair,

Secularism doesn't allow the Presidency of Pak to recite the Quran, it does not disallow the Prez (much less the common citizen) to recite the Quran.

I agree with your prescription on FATA though. The WOT is not Pak's war. Mr. Bush and Mahatma Mehsud shud settle the dispute among themselves and inform GOP of the outcome.

Regards

Re: # 5 FAZLUR RAHMAN WAS FIFTH COLUMNIST OF MUSH MILITARY JUNTA

As evidence continues to pour in, rigging was massively planned. Pre-poll rigging such as week Election Commisioner, biased presiding offiers etc etc had been done.

However, the alert parties, voters, NGOs, media & observers manage to reduce it considerably on the actual polling day & the results proved to be reflecting the general mood of the masses. (and of the many different opinion polls conducted earlier)

For the present, PPP & PML(N) should forget about forming the Goverments and first mutually sort out & formulate a conbined strategy to clear the mess created in Constitution, sacking of Judiciary, Provincial autonomy & Musharraf's removal.

Only then, then future will have some bright prospects.

NHK

....interestingly, this is probably the most pro-India set-up that could have come up in pakistan.....the two anti-india entities - mma and army (other than musharraf) - are out, totally.......

mqm is very pro-india, to the point of its leader doubting the creation of pakistan.......many in pakistan, actually, consider it an indian sponsored party.......anp is the party of the frontier gandhi, with old alliances with congress.......ppp is quite pro-good relations with india....benazir and rajiv ghandi got along well.....pml-n is quite pro-business with india and hence may actually do the most for business to business ties with india.......even the opposition (pml-q) is not anti-india......

interesting days ahead......

Romair,

I guess with the US WOT, Injuns are pretty low on the list of Pak's enemies at the moment.

Regards

Re: # 13

"...interestingly, this is probably the most pro-India set-up that could have come up in pakistan.....the two anti-india entities - mma and army (other than musharraf) - are out, totally......."

pro India stance is inversely proportional to the policy towards Islamization. If the new coalition has a common agenda that favours further "Islamization" then the government would probably be sponsoring the Islamic view of TNT and thus pushing Jehad on its active agenda.

So, the factor to be watched by idolators is how active would further "Isalmization" be on their agenda of the Pakistan.

Further, we have to watch how the MMA mullahs re-align with the PML mullahs. If they are friends then be sure that Jehad would intensify against hindu idolators in India.

If the PML mullahs just keep to their imaan - then it is alright. But I doubt if the roots of Paki woes i.e. Jehadic TNT would get discredited by the elections.

Further Islamization is not possible….. As Pakistan gets more prosperous….. It will start looking away from saudi…….. and towards its subcontinental identity…...