How did Hindus Become Vegetarians?

Re: # 247

I am sure Urstruly has answered. But as to your question regarding my status with my current beleifs in ahmadi majority; well dear, I would have fought for my right because I beleive that I am right and would have gladly done so despite any harm that may come due to it. This is another dimension where I find my ahmadi friends lacking. They just don't stand up, and I think the reason is that there is some injuction against jihad in there system. When I pressed an ahmadi friend on this, he came up with reply, "Haan kharray ho jain aur muft main maray jain."

They just don't stand up for their beleifs............

Re: # 247
Quadianism in its essence is a unique animal. Islamic fiqah does not allow prolysetization of another religion to the Muslim population (since the punishment for apostasy is death so it is counter-intuitive). But it does allow prolysetization of christianity and judaism to the non-Muslim population of the polity. Keeping this in mind, if a restriction is not placed on a Quadiani for identifying himself as such, he can proselytize his religion to Muslim population pretending to be a Muslim and yet he won't be in violation of any law. Therefore section 295A, B, and C of Pakistan Penal code require them to identify themselves as Quadianis, and they cannot name their temples as masjid, etc.

Re: #246,
Bhatti Sahib,

I do not dispute your points #1 to #5.
However, I fail to see how that leads to the extra step infringing on religious practice. You are free to regard Ahmedis as non-muslims. The State can treat them as non-muslims for its purpose. But why prevent them from calling themselves muslims? Why place restrictions on their religious practice?
Would you accept these restrictions in an Ahmedi majority country?

Re: # 241

Khurram saab,

Keep following in mind:

1)Pakistan declares itself to be an islamic country.

2)In islamic country which says that its religion is islam, a question is bound to arise if there exists a community that modifies the long held beleif maintained by non ahmadi muslims for fourteen centuries.

3) In islam state and religion are not seperate. I am sure ahmadis also beleive that.

4) Keeping in mind 1 - 3 above in mind the state will logically try to define who is or who is not muslim.

5) Both ahmadis and muslim agree on declaring each other out of islam i.e. both claim exlusive right to muslim identity.

Now only question left is that if a community is declared as muslim and other not as a muslim then one community will have to leave its claim over muslim identity. Now the question out of it is that who is muslim. Community that called itself muslim for 14 centuries or the one which is new and also small.

As far suppressing of religious practices of ahmadis is concerned, they will logically be suppressed if they claim them to islamic. However, if they start calling themselves by any other name say "mirza parast", then no one will have any problem. I will be the first one to defend their religion on the pain of death.

Actually ahmadism is nothing but a sect or cult based on identity theft. If you take out the name of islam out of it, the whole building of mirzaism will come down, which is kind of a funny thing. Just imagine a cult or sect having nothing new in it except introduction of a new prophet for the sake of nothing and want the name of a already existing religion appropriated to itself and the current followers ex-communicated.

Well, I read somewhere here that vegetarian food is unviable. The reason was, vegetarian food does not contain Vitamin B12 and a prolonged vegetarianism would cause dementia.

Spirulina is rich in vitamin B12, but that is not my contention.
If animal meat is the only source of vitamin B12, the animals themselves being herbivores, what would be their source of vitamin B12 ? Assuming that you would have to consume appropriate supplements for the various bodily functions does not make sense. We just forget that our body is itself a chemical apparatus.

It is like, if the hen is not provided calcium supplements, it would not....;)

Guys, if you plan to become veggies, you can do without the fear becoming demented.

Sattar:

Could you please list top 10 areas or aspects in Muslim faith, at the time of Mirza Sahib, that in your or Quadiani opinion, required the intervention of a prophet to reform or revive. And please explain what measures Mirza Sahib took to implement those reforms or how he executed that revival.

Thanks.

khurram sahib,

Bhatti ji may confirm this, but he and other Muslims do not advocate massacring all mirzais.

"talks about declaring others non-muslims. Not about restricting their religious practice."

We would agree if your basic argument is: In managing their religious/political conflict with Mirzais, Muslims must not use the political means/source of power currently at their disposal (the state structure) that are currently not available to Mirzais.

yar isnt there always some stuff about taking quoran "out of context" in its suras about its advice on treating the kaffirs and sundry? is there some such shyte in ahmedi senior vichar at play? furthermore, is there history which exemplified the vichar?

Re; #240,
Bhatti sahib, 2 questions.

1. #230 talks about declaring others non-muslims. Not about restricting their religious practice.

2. how would you *like* to be treated?

Re: # 239

Khurram,

How ahmadis will treat non ahmadis? Please read interact #230 to know the vichars of their founders....

Eklavya,
According to Bhatti sahib's own explanation, it has to be LIKE not EXPECT.

If I expect to be massacred to by KKK, doesn't mean I should massacre them.

khurram ji, that is not the right way to think about the ethics of reciprocity, because you have completely changed the frames of reference of both morality and politics.

Consider the following (far fetched) example:

Should liberals/or blacks treat the KKK (precisely) the same way as they would *LIKE* to be treated in a KKK majority country?

OR

Should liberals/or blacks treat the KKK (precisely) the same way as they would *EXPECT* to be treated in a KKK majority country?

Re: krbhatti,
Bhatti Sahib, please invoke the Ethics of Reciprocity and think of how you would like to be treated if you lived in an Ahmadi majority country.

nkg#227:

I haven't read archaelogical reports and do not know what other hypotheses explain the geological formations of Ram Setu. I think that it is best for these things to remain in the domain of faith; and I am not saying that the govt. should ignore people's faith in taking any decision on deepening the channel.

Dear majumdar bhai,

In case of dubya it was assumption based on WMD that did not existed. In case of ahmadis, this is a concrete fact. please read #230 to get an idea...

Bhatti sahib,

(I am sure that if ahmadis had power they will do the same...)

That wud be like George Bush justifying the destruction of Iraq saying that if Iraq had WMDs they wud have destroyed USA.

Regards