How did Hindus Become Vegetarians?

For some reason I just assumed that Harimau would be a vegetarian too. But it may be, I am the only one living in dark ages! :) :)

seriously...what's up with hindoos..you should try beef..just don't start with the mcdonalds/bk crap...start off with the small burger places..


That's right. I'd suggest any good American restaurant, (not a chain) that serves steak tips and rice, medium well.

and muslims...pork is actually very delicious...and it's white meat too...


Bacon strips along with omelette / toast for weekend brunches is a good start.

you're invited..my pet pig mohammad is part of the main course...

:-)

Re: # 64
a straight answer would have been nice

urstruly, this is a exclusively Indian problem. Pakistan was very lucky to solve this problem, and doesn't confront it anymore. Hopefully, it can be explained in simple terms. Only, it will require a bit of thinking from the 'Hindu" point of view. So I request your patience, and if I don't make any sense at all, do accept my apologies in advance.

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Urstruly, in 1947, Hindu leaders - Gandhi and Nehru - chose to shut their eyes, and continue Hindu-Muslim strife and politicking. The issue of Muslim identity that logically should have been put to rest in India was revived, supported, and continues to be with us. It is is getting stronger, as anyone who knows anything about Islam would expect.

Consider what has happened to Taslima Nasreen. To be fair, she cannot be acceptable to any believing Muslim.

A key element, urstruly, of Indian Muslim identity has been killing cows and eating beef. Many Hindus too do the same and don't care two hoots about really about the cow; but for Indian Muslims, the approach to cow has been anything but lackadaisical: aggressive slaughtering of cows and eating of beef has almost a 'local' religious condition.

True, there may even be some vegetarian Indian Muslims, but in general, the willingess to eat beef has been an identity marker for Muslims, in general.

It is an in-your-face statement, of clearly rejecting the Hindu identity, and creating and strengthing a non-Hindu, Islamic Indian political identity.

Quite like, although the scales and universalities of opinions are different, tearing and stomping over a copy of the Quran would be for some Hindus in Pakistan, were they similarly inclined, and had similarly clear/passionate beliefs. Indian Muslims have proudly considered doing something equivalent, in the eyes of SOME Hindus, almost their right and their obligation.

Now, a FEW Hindus have, as Mr Baig mentioned, begun to pay attention in political terms. This has not yet gone to the extent of Hindus tearing up and stomping over copies of the Quran (and I hope it doesn't have to), but has begun to show up in SOME Hindus beginning to emphasize their determination to 'protect' the cow. Mr. Baig clearly disapproves of this trend, as we would expect him to.

So, now, you may get a feel of the political game that Mr Murad started, and we played briefly.
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Obviously, this is an absurd and tragic situation in that Indians/Hindus - no matter what their religious beliefs - should not have to confront, just as Pakistani Muslims don't face it at least in their own country.

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Please, this is a Hindu flat earthers view! It does not reflect the opinions of most other good Hindus for whom political identity is a complete non-issue. What's more, there are also many Hindus who are extremely afraid that we Hindu flat earthers are going to force them and their children to become equally backward flat earthers too!! Such Hindus would even support Mr. Baig. :)

Re: # 68

Thank you. Now I understand your POV better. But politics aside, do you see an academic merit to his historical and religious refernces? Personally, I have no clue about their authenticity, so I want to hear from a horses mouth.

Re: # 68

eklavya,

... i hate to say this, but you guys are making a big mistake by pandering to the indian muslims ..... remember, muslims have never been able to live as a peaceful majority - it is only a matter of time before the green flag is once again flying from the ramparts of the delhi fort ........ good luck

urstruly, since old texts/history etc don't matter to us much in shaping current and future life, not many of us specialize in studying them. But there is no basis at all to doubt Mr. Baig's integrity in quoting or highlighting whatever he thought was relevant. Also, remember, this cow issue itself is not such a big deal. There have been Indian/Hindu scholars who have arrived at similar conclusions before - that eating meat was common in India, and beef was eaten as well.

Mr. Baig's contribution here was putting that already existing research in Hindu/Muslim political conflictual terms.

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hamidm2, Muslims have no reason to not live as mostly peaceful majority. They may (and invariably will) fight among themselves, but for the most part, they should be peaceful toward minorities.

Again, I have more confidence in Islam than you do. I actually quite admire Islam's clear approach to religious minorities.

The issue, hamdim2, is always what to do with Islamic minorities, particularly when the majority is as clueless and suicidal as Indian Hindus.

Don't you sometimes read posts by Indian Hindus and go: "What are these guys thinking?"?

There are some deep logical gaps in traditional Hinduism. Those gaps keep even the smartest Hindus from understanding Islam as it is. Consequently, they either hate it (thinking of it as worse than it is even from their pov) or talk foolishly about this large group of Muslims being different from that large group.


Anyways, we got sidetracked. :)

Re: # 70 hamid

don't worry about it - the "pandering" is almost a thing of past, except for commie infested areas... why do you think Modi is considered a big shot "leader" these days?... According some people - he is supposed to be the Prime Minister in waiting...

Even though that would be a gross violation justice, but looks like it will take a person like Modi to set things back where it should have been in the first place...

Re: # 71
[...ehen the majority is as clueless and suicidal as Indian Hindus...]

Actually, hindus are not really that "clueless", as you say...

Hindus have always known exactly what they are dealing with... and have takens steps to reduce the problem in various ways... partition was first such step... as YLH would tell you, it was congress which caused partition to happen... of course, then they tried to "balance" the things by "pandering" to the decimated remaining muslims, that was a mistake...

which is why BJP and their fellow-travellers have become a force in politics, pandering was going a little too far...

So don't worry about hinuds... they are neither clueless, nor suicidal, in fact - they have gone a step beyond what was required... hard-handed treatment given out in gujrat and kashmir being examples...

Which is why pakis are so afraid of hinuds... they know that hinuds will teach them lessons given half a chance, just like what happened in 1971...

A good read.

Kaal,
It is nice to see you interact with passion after quite some time. You make an intelligent point -
1. Hindu identity (not Hindus per se) rejects beef. The identity may or may not be based on myths. The myths themselves are of no consequence (at least in this context) but the identity is.
2. Muslims, in India, reinforce the separation of their identity by eating beef.
3. The politics of identity is driven to quite an extent through the fight on the issue of beef.
4. The author is making light of this important issue of identity politics in his article. Hence he is acting like Edward Said's outsider all with "rational analysis of history" and other bells and whistles.

Well, you have a point. However, your attempt to homogenize the Hindu identity by defining the "outsider" (Murad in this case) scares the hell out of the Hindu in me. It seems to be very close to "you are either with us or against us". The Hindu that I identify myself with has fought this homogenizing effort for quite some time now. It took the form of Jaichand who opposed Prithiviraj and the form of Shivaji who opposed Aurangzeb. Long time back even Vishnu had to take the form of Narasingha to get outside the paradigm of homogenized identity. Neither Sankaracharya nor VHP can define me the Hindu. Nor can anyone else, by telling me who is not "like me".

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Re: # 70 hamidm,

Muslims can live peacefully under heavy repression, by a king..saudi, by a military man..mushy, simple repression...turkey.

Freedom well you have problems...london bombings, indian plane hijackings etc etc.

End to terror central..iraquise pakistan/

Re: # 76 GT & Eklavya

I have never understood this double-speak. On one hand you people on almost every borad on Hinduism, say that it is impossible to define a hindu because a hindu could be one that belives in nothing or the one who belives in everything; it could be one who believes in One God, or it could be one who belives in millions of gods. So by your definition a Muslim must be a Hindu also. I know you people consider hindustan as the center of universe but what about quadianism; it emerged in the land f hinduism; why can't quadianis be regarded as yet anothet 'goath', another 'panth', and what not. On one hand you guys so vehmently claim the so called "homogeniety" yet exclusiveness of hinduism and on the other hand you whine about the Hindu identity. So which one is it. What the hell is wrong with you people??

It took me hardly a week to understand Einstiens bothe General and Special theory or relitivity and I have been taking interest in hinduism for the past 8 years and heck I am absolutely clueless what hinduism is. I have asked the same questions from some live hindus too and I find their shifting eyes quite uncomfortable.

urstruly,

In fact BJP wants to call all muslims as ahmadi hindus and christians as christi hindus.

That should solve your confusion. Budhism did not spread in india because shnakarachary in first centuary AD made budha an avatar, a god in the hindu pantheon. Give us some time, slowly and steadily muslims will vanish into hinduism.

I know of many muslims who typically exclaim " ayyo rama", calling a hindu god which is typical in south india.

90 percent of the people who visit velankanni church in tamil nadu, good for the health of children, are hindus. I used to visit a muslim saints tomb in my young days, said to be good for education, and I am thankful, teh saint did deliver on my grades all through my school days.

In fact recently my mother visited valankanny church to pray for her grand children. Hindus like god who can deliver goods in this world. We do not much care for houris and the like after death, and that is why hindus do not much care for that saudi chappie.

Baig Sahib:

Thanks for a well-researched article. I think that there is now a general acceptance of the hypothesis that the aryans were beef eaters at one time.

I don't know why some Hindus are sensitive on this issue. The Hindu society has never been static and has changed under external influence. In recent times, sati was banned under western influence and now they have realised the evil of caste-based oppression. I think that they should also learn the art of self-preservation from others and introduce the concept of apostacy and punishment to thwart the onslaught of proselytising faiths.