The Deoband Declaration on Terrorism: Why Now?

laddu#various:

Do you think that it is possible to find several cases of Muslim persecution in India as well? Just go to any Indian Muslim website, such as Milligazette.

ISlamIslam#49:

May not be for IAS or IPS but you would perhaps agree that approach is needed for lower level posts.

And don't be simplistic about madrassas; Indian madrassas can be quite good; in fact, a report last week showed that Madrassa Board students show a 91% success rate, better than any other board than ICSE;

"Bihar madrassa board next only to ICSE: Report
25 Feb 2008, 0157 hrs IST,TNN

MUMBAI: Here's something for Maharashtra Navanirman Sena's Raj Thackeray as well as his uncle and inspiration, the founder of Shiv Sena, Bal Thackeray, to chew on: If class X students from across the country were to take a common exam, who would perform the best?

Believe it or not, students from Bihar's madrassa board would stand high, second only to students of the ICSE board in Delhi.

Comparing the performance of educational boards across India, the HRD ministry has just released a report on student performance in various states in class X.

The results have the Council for the Indian School Certificate Examination in Delhi topping with the highest pass percentage of 94.3%, followed by Bihar State Madrassa Board with a success rate of 91.4%. The Central Board of Secondary Education, Delhi, stands third with a pass percentage of 86.4%.

The report compares 2005 data across the country. Madhav Chavan, founder of educational non-profit Pratham, said the findings contradict the "stereotype that madrassas are religious training schools". It vindicates "the historical view" that a voluntary process of education that involves progressive elements in a society coming forward to educate the backward sections often results in a successful model for formal education, he said.

Unlike other boards with a large student base, both the ICSE and madrassa boards have lower student populations taking the exam. States like Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, West Bengal have lakhs of students sitting for the class X exam.

Peggy Mohan, a linguist and a former JNU professor, said that the madrassa board, being run on a smaller scale, was probably more flexible than such "regimented state boards".

Some experts countered that boards handling lakhs of students see a diverse mix whose results may vary on the basis of several factors. Basanti Roy, divisional secretary of Mumbai, Maharashtra State Board of Secondary and Higher Secondary Education, said of the approximately 15 lakh students who took the class X exam in the state, a large population came from the rural hinterland which lacked good teachers.

The state board thus enjoyed higher success rates in smaller, urban pockets."

This BBC report provides the correct evaluation of Hindus in Pakistan-

"Pakistan is home to some 2.5 million Hindus, 95% of them living in the southern Sindh province.

Most are poor, low-caste peasants.

However there are also some successful upper caste businessmen. In Sindh, they are a hot commodity for bandits.

They lack the protection afforded to local tribal Muslims."

Hindus are dhimmi slaves , bonded labours or under protection of momeen goons!!
That is the way Pakistan has SOLVED the communal problem.

Hindus feel the heat in Pakistan
Riaz Sohail
BBC News, Karachi

Kidnap victim Garish Kumar
Wealthy Hindus like Garish Kumar are targets for kidnappers
The kidnap and murder of a Hindu engineer in Pakistan's southern province of Sindh has increased the insecurity among fellow Hindus.

Garish Kumar disappeared last month near Hyderabad city, 250 km (160 miles) from the port city of Karachi in Sindh.

His dismembered body parts were later found near a madrassa (Islamic religious school).

Police initially said the crime was committed by an outlawed Muslim militant group. Five people were arrested.

However, Hyderabad's police chief, Shaukat Shah, the incident now seems to be a simple kidnapping for ransom case.

Minority report

Kumar's father, Saspal Das, is a trader from Kunri town in Sindh's central district of Umerkot.

Poor Hindus in Sindh
Most Hindus are poor peasants and serve as bonded labour

"No one listens to the Hindu minority," he complains. ""We have no security.

"We are targeted because we are Hindu. There is no other reason for kidnapping Garish."

Pakistan is home to some 2.5 million Hindus, 95% of them living in the southern Sindh province.

Most are poor, low-caste peasants.

However there are also some successful upper caste businessmen. In Sindh, they are a hot commodity for bandits.

They lack the protection afforded to local tribal Muslims.

Whole tribes often go to war with one another in rural Sindh over any slight to their members.

That cushion is not available to the Hindu minority.

Protection money

In recent years kidnapping for ransom and armed robberies have multiplied in the area and Hindus have increasingly been the focus of attacks.

Hindu men
Hindus have to pay thousands of pounds to avoid kidnapping

Many pay protection money regularly to local gangs or influential figures. But in spite of this they are still targeted.

Santosh Kumar, a rice trader from Larkana town in upper Sindh, and his two brothers were kidnapped in separate incidents in 2006. They were later released after paying a huge ransom.

Another wealthy trader from the nearby city of Sukkur in Sindh, Sundeep Kumar, was kidnapped in 2005.

He was released after paying a ransom of over a million rupees ($16,000), according to local sources.

The ransom can sometimes go up to five times that amount.

But not all Hindus are as rich as Sundeep Kumar.

Last August, a youth, Ramesh Lal, was kidnapped. His relatives could not afford the ransom, and his body was later found at a police check post.

In the last three years at least five Hindu traders have been killed after being kidnapped or offering resistance.

"Powerful oppress the weak"

Ramesh Lal, a Hindu MP in Pakistan's parliament says, "The Hindus are not as rich as portrayed."

"Often the kidnappers ask a huge amount that the families cannot pay. As a result the hostages are killed."

Hindu women
Even Hindu women and children are not spared by the kidnappers

The President of the Hindu council in Sukkur district, Mukhi Aishwar Lal says, "the powerful always oppress weaker communities... Hindus are weak so they are targeted."

He relates how a few years back a Hindu family travelling by local bus were kidnapped by local bandits, while rest of the passengers were allowed to go.

Around that time some foreigners were also kidnapped in the same area. The police secured their release without any payment, but the Hindus were released after a huge ransom was doled out.

Such incidents increase the feeling among Hindus that they have no say in power and authority in the country.

Political apartheid

In Pakistan's political system, the minorities, such as Hindus, Christians and Sikhs, remain outcasts despite represented in every major political party.

After Gen Pervez Musharraf seized power in 1999, he scrapped the controversial separate electorate system introduced former dictator Gen Zia-ul-Haq in 1980s.

Under the separate electorate system, non-Muslims could only vote for candidates of their own religion. Seats were reserved for minorities in the national and provincial assemblies.

Critics said Muslim candidates no longer had any incentive to pay attention to the aspirations of the minorities.

Gen Musharraf hoped to reverse that by the simple step of abolishing the system. But that appears to have failed.

Sudham Chand, a Hindu community leader who led a local campaign to scrap the separate electorate system was killed in broad daylight. His murder conveyed many a message.

The killers were not arrested. His brother later migrated to India.

Ramesh Lal, a member of the National Assembly, says that the restoration of the conventional electoral system is of little use if the minorities have no security.

And still, he complains, no one asks the minorities what problems they are suffering.

Losing faith

Mukhi Aishwar Lal agrees that Hindus in Sindh are still afraid.

Saspal Das
Garish Kumar's grieving father, Saspal, wants justice

They are frightened to move outside freely. Some even put themselves under a self-imposed curfew after 2000 hours a few months ago.

"No-one is targeting the minorities," argues Kishanchand Parwani, Advisor for Minorities' Affairs to the Sindh Government.

But he admits that, although the minorities are supposed to be equal citizens according to the constitution, the reality is different. He accepts that they feel like second class citizens.

Garish Kumar's father, Saspal Das, still retains faith in the system: "I will fight till I get justice for my son."

But many Hindu families who stayed in Pakistan after partition have already lost faith and migrated to India

Re: # 47

In the age of internet it is not possible for Islamic states to HIDE their prosecution of kafir population (whatever is left of after the slaughter and assault).

Ref dost_mittar #40

[How do they compete in the "approach" department?]

What do you mean by that?

IAS, IPS, etc., are based on competitive examinations. Two years backm the District Superintendent of Police in Nagapattinam district was a Muslim. He has since been transferred to some other post.

Syed Munir Hoda is a Secretary in the Tamil Nadu state government, close to Docgtor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion. From his name, one would guess he is not Hindu, Christian, Sikh or Jain, leaving only one conclusion as to his religion.

Let these fcukers study in a regular school rather than in madrassahs and go compete with Hindus the way Christians, Jains and Sikhs do. Shhesh, most Hindus in Tamil Nadu want their kids to study in Christian schools, knowing that the nuns and monks would instill strong discipline in them.

Hindus targeted in Balochistan

Minorities, particularly Hindus and Ahmadiyas, continue to face a wave of violations in Balochistan, the area where Pakistan conducted its nuclear tests on the orders of President Musharraf in October 1999. The native Baluchs experience a severely degraded status since the occupation. Although the exact number is unknown, more than 5,000 Hindus were forced to escape from the unrest in Balochistan and enter Sindh in 2005. Militant Muslim groups have desecrated Hindu temples, set their homes on fire, and destroyed Hindu shops and property. Here too, Hindu females, particularly school students, are forcibly converted to Islam.[lxxxvii]



On March 21, 2005, sixty civilians were killed and one hundred and fifty were injured in Dera Bugti, Balochistan when Pakistan’s Frontier Corps attacked the town with “artillery shelling, rockets, and indiscriminate machine gun fire.” Among those killed were innocent Hindu women and children as well as dozens of Bugti tribesmen.[lxxxviii]
Depiction of Hinduism in School Textbooks

Extracts (translated from Urdu to English) from the government-sponsored textbooks approved by the National Curriculum Wing of the Federal Ministry of Education demonstrate the derogatory and inflammatory portrayal of Hinduism to the youth of Pakistan:[lxxxix]



· Grade IV: “The religion of Hindus did not teach them good things, [and the] Hindus did not respect women.”

· Grade V: “The Hindu has always been an enemy of Islam.”

· Grade VI: “The Hindu setup was based on injustice and cruelty.”

· Grade VII: “Hindus always desired to crush the Muslims as a nation [and] several attempts were made by the Hindus to erase Muslim culture and civilization.”

· Grade VIII: “Before Islam people lived in untold misery all over the world.”

· Grade X: “Islam gives a message of peace and brotherhood…There is no such concept in Hinduism.”

laddu#42:

So, you are disproving ek's and my theory; hindus are now able to whine in Pakistan.

Hindus in Pakistan allege humiliation

B. Muralidhar Reddy

An abducted Hindu girl married one of her abductors and embraced Islam

ISLAMABAD: Minority members of the Pakistan National Assembly have alleged that Hindus were being hounded and humiliated to force them to leave Pakistan.

They were taking part in a discussion on a calling attention motion on the abduction of a Hindu girl in Sindh province who has since married one of her four abductors and embraced Islam.

Responding to the motion, Minister of State for Interior Wasim Shahzad said the girl was abducted on September 14 and a case was registered the same day. "Two of the four abductors were arrested," he said.

The Minister said the girl gave a statement in the court that she has married one of the abductors and embraced Islam at Dargah Amrit Sharif. "In the light of her statement the court dismissed the case."

"Sensitive issue"

A member, Gyan Chand Singh, however, said her kidnapping fell in the category of rape and a case should be registered against the abductors. "It is a very sensitive issue which brings a bad name to the country," he said.

The Minister said the case was registered the same day the girl was abducted. "Everything is clear now after her statement in the court," he said.

Another member, Krishan Bheel, said many Hindu men were being kidnapped for ransom in Sindh.

"These incidents are taking place to force Hindus to leave Pakistan where they have been living for the past 5000 years," he said.

Another member, Ramesh Lal, claimed that the abducted girl was only 17 years old and she was not an adult. "According to Hindu laws a girl cannot marry till she is 20," he said.

Mr. Gyan Chand said that in view of the nature of the issue, a house committee should be formed to sort out such matters.

ISlamIslam#41:

That is, of course, yesterday's news. Let's see what the news channels are saying today. The Congress is flip-flopping so often on this issue that it is difficult to know what is going to happen.

KIDNAPPING GIRLS AND FORCIBLY CONVERTING THEM TO ISLAM

Jan 2006: Sindh's Stolen Brides : Hindu Girls Forced into Islam
Hindus continue to be the target of kidnappings, rape, and intimidation in Pakistan. There are reports of desecration and destruction of Hindu temples and lands, theft and looting of Hindu property, discrimination, abuse, and abduction of Hindu females.

Violence towards Hindu Women
A worrisome trend in Pakistan, particularly in the Sindh province, is that of Muslims kidnapping Hindu girls and forcing them to convert to Islam. One of the most egregious cases of intimidation and kidnapping of young Hindu women occurred in September 2005. On September 14, Hindu parents alleged that four men abducted their daughter in Sindh, and forced her to marry one of the accused and convert to Islam. The authorities arrested two of the abductors, but the court dismissed the case when the girl was forced to provide a legal statement that she willfully married and converted. Gayan Chand Singh, a legislator in Pakistan’s Parliament, said that the kidnapping should be categorized as rape and should be registered as such an offense for the abductors.

In a similar case, Sapna Giyanchand was taken to a shrine in the Shikarpur District by Shamsuddin Dasti, a Muslim married man and father. She was converted to Islam, her name changed and married to a Muslim man. When Sapna’s case was presented in court, Muslim extremists deluged her with rose petals and chanted religious sayings. Sapna, terrified by the setting, could not manage to speak to her parents, who were also present in court. Aziz, also in attendance, is claimed to have said, “How can a Muslim girl live and maintain contact with kafirs ?”

In a recent investigative report it is described how young girls, as young as 12 or 13, have been kidnapped in Sindh, converted to Islam, and forcibly married to Muslim boys. Kidnapping Hindu girls like this has become a normal practice. The girls are then forced to sign stamp[ed] papers stating that they’ve become Muslims. At least 19 similar abduction cases have taken place in Karachi alone, and 6 in the Jacobabad and Larkana districts. Wasim Shahzad, the Minister of State for Interior, upset legislators in the National Assembly when he was quoted by the state-run APP news agency as saying, “These incidents are taking place to force the Hindus to leave Pakistan where they have been living for the past 5,000 years.”

In a shocking incident, it was reported that three young Hindu girls had suddenly coverted to Islam. The three girls, Reena (21), Usha (19) and Rima (17) – daughters of Sanno Amra and Champa, a Hindu couple living in the Punjab Colony section of Karachi, Pakistan – went missing on October 18, 2005. Only after desperate queries to the police, the parents received affidavits stating the daughters’ conversions to Islam. Private visits with their daughters, free from chaperones and even police officers that have supervised their only interactions thus far, have been consistently denied. After their disappearance from home, the girls have been living at a madrassa (Islamic seminary) in the vicinity of their home and may potentially be denied the freedom to return home.

Kidnap Hindu, Force Marriage to Muslim
January 04, 2007 12:00 PM EST




Sanao Menghwar has had three of his daughters kidnapped, then forced to marry Muslim men. That means that the young women were coerced into becoming Islamics.

This happens daily, particularly in the Pakistani Sindh province, according to Hasan Mansoor, reporter, Midday.com.

Other Hindus in the province worry when their daughters will disappear. Therefore, there are entire Hindu families leaving Pakistan for Canada, India or other nations.Menghewar and his wife left their house on errands. When they returned to their residence, their daughters were missing. They reported the missing young women to the police department, filing the necessary papers. Neighbors helped them on a search party to locate the daughters, but to no avail.

Menghwar’s daughters have yet to be found. However, authorities have arrested three Islamic young men assumed to be connected with the girls’ kidnapping. The men have been released on bail by a court due to the men being minors.

"’Kidnapping Hindu girls like this has become a normal practice. The girls are then forced to sign stamp papers stating that they’ve become Muslims,’ says Laljee Menghwar, a member of the Hindu Panchayat in Karachi."

Because of extremist Muslim threats, Hindus have had to turn to what those in the Netherlands are resorting to. Both areas have been under extreme pressure from maiming and killing Islamics so that the local citizens have put into action what one person refers to as "self-censorship."

There is no talk. There is no public utterance. There is nothing said negatively about the Muslims in the area for fear of being slain.

So it is that extremist Islamic killers international could overtake country after country, area after area. Instill such fear in the people that no one speaks the facts concerning local extremist Islamics kidnapping and killing; therefore, they have open skies to do just that — more so.

"’Hindus here are too frightened to vent their anger — they fear victimization,’ said one local."

Minority members of the Pakistan National Assembly have alleged that Hindus were being hounded and humiliated to force them to leave Pakistan.[9] Hindu women have been known to be victims of kidnapping and forced conversion to Islam.[10] Krishan Bheel, a Hindu member of the National Assembly of Pakistan, came into news recently for manhandling Qari Gul Rehman.[11]

Hindus in what is now Pakistan have declined from 23 % of the total population in 1947 to less than 2% today. The report condemns Pakistan for systematic state-sponsored religious discrimination against Hindus through bigoted "anti-blasphemy" laws. It documents numerous reports of millions of Hindus being held as "bonded laborers" in slavery-like conditions in rural Pakistan, something repeatedly ignored by the Pakistani government.

Dost-Mittar writes [I think that the Congress Party has taken the decision to go ahead with the Indo-US nuclear deal despite the staunch opposition to it by the Communist parties...]

Sonia Gandhi has declared that there will be no elections this year. That means no nuclear treaty with the US and China and its fifth-column in India will be happy.

ISlamIslam#36:

"They can compete for it if they want. Why should they be given quotas for being retarded Arab-wannabe's?"

How do they compete in the "approach" department?