The Vicious Circle of Violence

The birthday of The Prophet Muhammad is a good time to remember that he was a man of peace.


man of peace? HAHAHAHAHAHA....

Eid Milad al-Nabi mubarak to all!
He is verily, "Rahmatulilalamin"-- a Mercy unto the Universes...

the perfect one who forgave those who tried for decades to kill him and those who killed his closest friends and family. He even forgave the man who killed his beloved uncle and the woman who then split open his uncle's belly and took a bit of his liver. When he entered Makkah as the victor he forgave everyone. subhan Allah. May my mother and father and my very being and my honour be sacrificed for his name! amen.

Ya Rasul Allah I love you!

aaj milad e nabi hai kya suhaana noor hai
aagyaa voh noor wala jis ka saaya noor hai!

sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam!

Rejoice O Mankind!

Re: # 2

naqshbandi,

stop making a fool out of yourself ! ........ the man might have forgiven one crazy woman, but by allowing the killing of another he has stuck us with this silly blasphemy law that prevents me from saying what i really think about him .... so instead ,i will just cuss the camel that brought him to medina ....... if there is such a thing as hell for animals, that camel will be rooming with the jackass that brought jesus' mama to bethlehem ....... mankind would have been much better off if these two hadn't showed up on earth and stayed in heaven with their father ......

anyway, happy eid-i-mild-un-nabi .....

Re: # 4; Hamidm,

I wonder, was it the same camel whose urine was recommended to the faithful to have contained medicinal properties and a deterrant to various ailments if consumed in appropriate quantities? (It is a Sahih Hadith, in case someone has doubt).

Cheers and rejoice O faithfuls! Can one celebrate with champagne?

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Re: # 5

P.S.: It is from Sahih Bokhari; the reference is as follows:

"Volume 7, Book 71, Number 590:
Narrated Anas:

The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron."

Who needs modern medicine eh?!

#4 hamidm:

You are a smart person. Given your views, don't you think it would be some what risky to think of retirement in Pakistan?

Unless, you think that Islam will be reformed and folks will become sufficiently tolerant by the time you are ready to move.

Re: # 2
"May my mother and father and my very being and my honour be sacrificed for his name! amen."

That sounds like the sort of expectation David Koresh would have of his followers; but hang on a minute, wasn't that a notorious and viscious cult?!

Sorry, just a news flashback from a few years ago; I stand corrected.

Re: # 8

I suppose people can get by by keeping their mouths shut about issues that matter in the Islamic Republic; I am planning to go and live/work there in the near future. So that answers tahmed's earlier query about my alleged "beratement" of the people.

One must understand that the worst victims of Islam are actually Muslims themselves. Besides, in INTER-COMMUNAL conflicts throughout muslim history, far more muslims were killed by muslims themselves, than any non-muslim population! This is what no one talks about. Not to mention the complete lack of the ability to THINK rationally; there is no worse slavery in the world mate!

The "conspiracy theorist" would keep at the elite from here and there; what they never mention is the INTERNAL HEGEMONIES that are so prevelant and are actually taking place right now; the usual "face-saving" that goes on in our society doesn't allow us to talk abou these in front of "Ghairs"!

May Allah have mercy on my soul......

Baig says:

"Tragically evil things are never done with such righteous pride and such joyous glee as when they are done in the name of religion."

This is the crux of the matter. The fact is as GBS says "Way to hell is paved with good intentions".

When Quran says "Tum hi ghalib raho ge agar tum momin ho" it is calling upon true believers to be overpowering as the test for true faith, as some believe, is political predominance and not a moral one.

Can there be any peace in the world when the religion is exhorting the believers to overpower others to be true believers?

'Ghalba' is the ultimate truism clearly laid out by Muhammad a long time ago. Without Ghalba, there's no life. There's no such thing as 'peaceful coexistence'. Big fish eats the small fish. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

Re: # 12 Zee bhai
what you are saying is that the "big fish" eating "small fish" should be muslims and that would make it allright?

Pakistan was created for perhaps the same reasons; so we could have 'ghalba' over our own destiny; all that came out of is exactly what is written above. (btw; this view is not new but expressed by Ibn-e-Insha in his book "Urdu ki Akhri Kitab"; it is a good read!

Re: # 6
People who take gallons of cow urine as tonic should not object to camel urine drinkinhg who are sick. Really people should do reserch on both animals.
I know people who are prison for long time use self urine for massage as body becomes strong and he can survive whipping its common practice where is whipping is normal practice to decipline and improve morale.

Other example shows the sensitivity and appreciation of trees specially date tree who gives sweet dates year after. Now same people will not find fault with tree protection.

One has to understand symbolic message of these stories , but blocked heads of goats will never appreciate. To understand or appreciate culture one should be cultured.
Good night.

I guess if someone who started at least a hundred wars (and screwed an equal number of chicks) can be considered a man of peace, Bush should be considered the most peace loving person ever to have lived.

Baig, is following a good Summary:
"Christians broke treaties whenever it suited them. Muslims honored their treaties. Christians killed their minorities. Muslims allowed people of other faith to live their life or leave with their property. Even if Muslims had to kill people of other faith, they made sure they killed equal number of Muslims.

One question - Why are there no minorities worth counting in Middle east? Kindly don't count Shia and Sunnis as minorities in those counteries.

Re: # 16; friend
"Why are there no minorities worth counting in Middle east? Kindly don't count Shia and Sunnis as minorities in those counteries"

There are two guys, Eklavya and Zeemax, who can answer that question fully.

All I can work out is there is this "brilliant system" incorporated within the Islamic fibre that takes care of this issue!

The birthday of The Prophet Muhammad is a good time to remember that he was a man of "peace".

Many jihadis also believe in the above, they got the spelling wrong, "peace" they understood as "piece" and that is why they blowing people to pieces.

Ha Ha Ha....The first sentence is very funny.... Muhammed was apostle of peace ( fought 7/8 wars, looted properties, killed thousands of people.) Changed definition of peace....

Christians broke treaties whenever it suited them. Muslims honored their treaties. Christians killed their minorities. Muslims allowed people of other faith to live their life or leave with their property. Even if Muslims had to kill people of other faith, they made sure they killed equal number of Muslims.
Ans:
http://www.iranian.ws/cgi-bin/iran_news/exec/view.cgi/2/4793
List of wars Muhammed had fought peacefully....

Yes Mr. Murad A Beg....Peaceful spread on Islam in Persia ( AD-635-650.....

#17 Posted by akcheema,

"Why are there no minorities worth counting in Middle east? Kindly don't count Shia and Sunnis as minorities in those counteries" There are two guys, Eklavya and Zeemax, who can answer that question fully.

You're even more ignorant than the poster of the quoted nonsense. Even a quick wikipaedia check will tell you how many coptic christians are in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Egypt ....

Next time go to the following link before making any ridiculous statement:

www.wikipedia.org

Re: # 21; Zee bhai
don't get upset, I was merely directing the question to the appropriate authorities on the subject.

A couple of small points:

Coptics are from Egypt; descended from ancient Egyptians (Wallahu Aalam); mass migration out of Egypt into various European countries in the last few decades

Lebanese and Syrians are Orthodox Church not Coptics; Again, population proportion of Christians in Lebanon has dropped from 65% at the end of WWII to

Re: # 21; Zee bhai
don't get upset, I was merely directing the question to the appropriate authorities on the subject.

A couple of small points:

Coptics are from Egypt; descended from ancient Egyptians (Wallahu Aalam); mass migration out of Egypt into various European countries in the last few decades

Lebanese and Syrians are Orthodox Church not Coptics; Again, population proportion of Christians in Lebanon has dropped from 65% at the end of WWII to less than 30%; ongoing exodus continues; big pop. in Australia

Syria: Generally no major issues; as I said before elsewhere, the Islamist issue was "sorted out" by Hafiz Asad (Alawite himself) in 1982 (Hama); hence peace and quiet for a while

Iraq: we all know is not safe for anyone. Christians remain all but a miniscule minority since early 1990s with growing unrest and anti-christian feeling with the demise of the Baathists (secular) and the rise of Islamism; surely multiple factors at play here

Palestine: Again since the relaxed grip of PLO (secular) and increasing support for Hamas etc (Islamists), mass exodus and increasing marginalisation

I hope that puts everything in perspective.

Cheers

Re: 21 Sorry Zee bhai, my post got cut off in half so had to send it twice.

One last thing; until recently Lebanon was regarded as a Christian majority country (see figures below); not so any more; although the constitutional requirement for a prime minister to be a maronite christian continues.

Cheers.

Akcheema
If we go by the figures that you have presented i.e.there were sizeable miniorities and in some places majorities till recently,it becomes easy to jump to the conclusion that muslims were decent rulers and they let the minorities prosper regardless of the ecnomic motives for doing so.Personally i believe muslims were less deamonical than the rest.

Re: # 23
Why don't you look our your neighbours... Pakistan and Bangladesh ( Sindh from 24% to 6% in 50 years, Bangladesh from 35% to 9% in 50/45 years...)....

Re: # 23
Why don't you look our your neighbours... Pakistan and Bangladesh ( Sindh from 24% to 6% in 50 years, Bangladesh from 35% to 9% in 50/45 years...)....

Re: # 23
Why don't you look our your neighbours... Pakistan and Bangladesh ( Sindh from 24% to 6% in 50 years, Bangladesh from 35% to 9% in 50/45 years...)....

Re: # 25; treetop

I totally agree with you. Minorities existed peacefully UNTIL the newfound puritanistic Islamism came into play.

With regards to the figure produced by "nkg"; I am sorry they are completely flawed. There was mass exodus at partition on BOTH sides which caused the respective populations to drop, again on BOTH sides.

There are hardly any sizeable populations of "native" Punjabi Muslims in Indian Punjab; those who may be there have come to live from other states and are NOT native Punjabis.

My family themselves have migrated from Gurdaspur; many didn't make it.

Cheema sahib,

Re: 29

You sound like my old pal YLH.

In Pak, The minority population was decimated not only in Punjab but also in NWFP/B'stan and even Sindh and East Bengal have shown similar trends. Whereas in India, minority population has grown in all states since 1951 Census and nowhere was the Muslim population decimated except in East Punjab.

Regards

Sad to see this kind of gibberish...

This fellow is unable to look at the region he comes from...instead he has the same old rubbish about spain and turkey...

Islam in south asia has been definitely violent and hegemonic. Where is the hindu and sikh minority of afghanistan today???? Where did they go? Do you know that when indian TV programs are broadcast in Afghanistan, they have to erase scenes of hindu workship from the shows, just like pornography? This is islamic tolerance...

How come the 3000-year old hindu/buddhist culture of north-west india has totally ended?? Not a single shred survives other than some poor farmers and workpeople in Sindh.

Violence and imperialism are closely allied with Islamic explansion. The prophet himself provided some "violent short-cuts" in his behavior with people who rejected his point of view. This was further exploited by warlords who easily used the prospect of loot and exploitation of conquered territories as part of islamic conquest. "Islam khatre mein hain" has been used as a violent and bigoted tool against non-muslims again and again in south asia.

Until educated muslims understand this, as for example, educated christians understand the horrors of the crusades and inquisition, and educated hindus the horrors of caste exploitation, we will not make much progress. But this silly Murad fellow, yapping about regions and areas he knows nothing about, is not someone to enlighten us.

If you really want to talk about tolerance, start with your hometown. How many buddhist, hindu and sikh temples are there? What is their condition? How visible are these minorities? Have their numbers grown or shrunk in the last 50 years??

Re: # 29
Another tolerant islam...Kashmiri Pundits....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_Pandits

Mr Wilders’ contribution to the parliamentary debate on Islamic activism:

Madam Speaker, allow me, first, to express my sincere thanks to you personally for having planned a debate on Islam on the very day of my birthday. I could not have wished for a nicer present! Madam Speaker, approximately 1400 years ago war was declared on us by an ideology of hate and violence which arose at the time and was proclaimed by a barbarian who called himself the Prophet Mohammed. I am referring to Islam.

Madam Speaker, let me start with the foundation of the Islamic faith, the Koran. The Koran’s core theme is about the duty of all Muslims to fight non-Muslims; an Islamic Mein Kampf, in which fight means war, jihad. The Koran is above all a book of war – a call to butcher non-Muslims (2:191, 3:141, 4:91, 5:3), to roast them (4:56, 69:30-69:32), and to cause bloodbaths amongst them (47:4). Jews are compared to monkeys and pigs (2:65, 5:60, 7:166), while people who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God must according to the Koran be fought (9:30).

Madam Speaker, the West has no problems with Jews or Christians, but it does have problems with Islam. It is still possible, even today, for Muslims to view the Koran, which they regard as valid for all time, as a licence to kill. And that is exactly what happens. The Koran is worded in such a way that its instructions are addressed to Muslims for eternity, which includes today’s Muslims. This in contrast to texts in the Bible, which is formulated as a number of historical narratives, placing events in a distant past. Let us remind ourselves that it was Muslims, not Jews or Christians, who committed the catastrophic terrorist attacks in New York, Madrid and London; and that it was no coincidence that Theo van Gogh was brutally murdered by a Muslim, Mohammed Bouyeri.

Madam Speaker, I acknowledge that there are people who call themselves Muslims and who respect our laws. My party, the Freedom Party, has nothing against such people, of course. However, the Koran does have something against them. For it is stated in the Koran in Sura 2, verse 85, that those believers who do not believe in everything the Koran states will be humiliated and receive the severest punishment; which means that they will roast in Hell. In other words, people who call themselves Muslims but who do not believe, for example, in Sura 9, verse 30, which states that Jews and Christians must be fought, or, for example, in Sura 5, verse 38, which states that the hand of a thief must be cut off, such people will be humiliated and roast in Hell. Note that it is not me who is making this up. All this can be found in the Koran. The Koran also states that Muslims who believe in only part of the Koran are in fact apostates, and we know what has to happen to apostates. They have to be killed.

Madam Speaker, the Koran is a book that incites to violence. I remind the House that the distribution of such texts is unlawful according to Article 132 of our Penal Code. In addition, the Koran incites to hatred and calls for murder and mayhem. The distribution of such texts is made punishable by Article 137(e). The Koran is therefore a highly dangerous book; a book which is completely against our legal order and our democratic institutions. In this light, it is an absolute necessity that the Koran be banned for the defence and reinforcement of our civilisation and our constitutional state. I shall propose a second-reading motion to that effect.

Madam Speaker, there is no such thing as “moderate Islam”. As Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said the other day, and I quote, “There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it”. Islam is in pursuit of dominance. It wishes to exact its imperialist agenda by force on a worldwide scale (8:39). This is clear from European history. Fortunately, the first Islamic invasion of Europe was stopped at Poitiers in 732; the second in Vienna in 1683. Madam Speaker, let us ensure that the third Islamic invasion, which is currently in full spate, will be stopped too in spite of its insidious nature and notwithstanding the fact that, in contrast to the 8th and 17th centuries, it has no need for an Islamic army because the scared “dhimmis” in the West, also those in Dutch politics, have left their doors wide open to Islam and Muslims.

Apart from conquest, Madam Speaker, Islam is also bent on installing a totally different form of law and order, namely Sharia law. This makes Islam, apart from a religion for hundreds of millions of Muslims also, and in particular, a political ideology (with political/constitutional/Islamic basic values, etc). Islam is an ideology without any respect for others; not for Christians, not for Jews, not for non believers and not for apostates. Islam aims to dominate, subject, kill and wage war.

Madam Speaker, the Islamic incursion must be stopped. Islam is the Trojan Horse in Europe. If we do not stop Islamification now, Eurabia and Netherabia will just be a matter of time. One century ago, there were approximately 50 Muslims in the Netherlands. Today, there are about 1 million Muslims in this country. Where will it end? We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilisation as we know it. Where is our Prime Minister in all this? In reply to my questions in the House he said, without batting an eyelid, that there is no question of our country being Islamified. Now, this reply constituted a historical error as soon as it was uttered. Very many Dutch citizens, Madam Speaker, experience the presence of Islam around them. And I can report that they have had enough of burkas, headscarves, the ritual slaughter of animals, so called honour revenge, blaring minarets, female circumcision, hymen restoration operations, abuse of homosexuals, Turkish and Arabic on the buses and trains as well as on town hall leaflets, halal meat at grocery shops and department stores, Sharia exams, the Finance Minister’s Sharia mortgages, and the enormous overrepresentation of Muslims in the area of crime, including Moroccan street terrorists.

In spite of all this, Madam Speaker, there is hope. Fortunately. The majority of Dutch citizens have become fully aware of the danger, and regard Islam as a threat to our culture. My party, the Freedom Party, takes those citizens seriously and comes to their defence.
Many Dutch citizens are fed up to the back teeth and yearn for action. However, their representatives in The Hague are doing precisely nothing. They are held back by fear, political correctness or simply electoral motives. This is particularly clear in the case of PvdA, the Dutch Labour Party, which is afraid of losing Muslim voters. The Prime Minister said in Indonesia the other day that Islam does not pose any danger. Minister Donner believes that Sharia law should be capable of being introduced in the Netherlands if the majority want it. Minister Vogelaar babbles about the future Netherlands as a country with a Judeo Christian Islamic tradition, and that she aims to help Islam take root in Dutch society. In saying this, the Minister shows that she has obviously gone stark raving mad. She is betraying Dutch culture and insulting Dutch citizens. Madam Speaker, my party, the Freedom Party, demands that Minister Vogelaar retract her statement. If the Minister fails to do so, the Freedom Party parliamentary group will withdraw its support for her. No Islamic tradition must ever be established in the Netherlands: not now and also not in a few centuries’ time.

Madam Speaker, let me briefly touch on the government’s response to the WRR [Netherlands Scientific Council for Government Policy] report. On page 12 of its response, the government states that Islam is not contrary to democracy or human rights. All I can say to that is that things can’t get much more idiotic than this.

Madam Speaker, it is a few minutes to twelve. If we go on like this, Islam will herald the end of our Western civilisation as well as Dutch culture.

I would like to round off my first-reading contribution with a personal appeal to the Prime Minister on behalf of a great many Dutch citizens: stop the Islamification of the Netherlands!
Mr Balkenende, a historic task rests on your shoulders. Be courageous. Do what many Dutch citizens are screaming out for. Do what the country needs. Stop all immigration from Muslim countries, ban all building of new mosques, close all Islamic schools, ban burkas and the Koran. Expel all criminal Muslims from the country, including those Moroccan street terrorists that drive people mad. Accept your responsibility! Stop Islamification!

Enough is enough, Mr Balkenende. Enough is enough.

Muslims who believe that Mohammad was a man of peace are seriously deluded. I would like to ask all of you who are claiming this:

1) Is it not true that he beheaded 700 UNARMED CIVILIANS?
2) Is it not true that he SOLD their INNOCENT and HELPLESS women and children into slavery?
3) Is it not true that he had sex with a woman THE SAME DAY that he murdered her father and husband? Even monsters would give a gap of a day or two before the rape.

I mean, being intelligent people, HOW CAN YOU say he was a man of peace? HOW CAN YOU?

This is very very disgusting. How can you respect yourselves after that? I am asking you guys a serious question. How can you? Don't you guys have families? Wives? Little children? What happened to your brains?

#33 Posted by laddu,

LoL. Daddu bhai, remember KaalChakra's words. Islam cuts off these people's reproductive systems. I heard wilder's 15 minute movie's website has been taken off by the host network. Is it true?

... I think that followed a demonstration by thousands of people on Dam Square, not all Muslims. Is it true? Daddu Bhai?

yar the camel urine hadith needs to be investigated carefully..sounds like an insttuction from a zen master. everyone knows that an arabi camle rarely pees. its easier to extract milk from a bull camel than pee from camel of any gender. therefore the instruction for seeking camels urine is really an instruction to search hard for medical treatment..sice its pretty clear that a camels urine cant be gotten easily ;-)

#37 jang
[yar the camel urine hadith needs to be investigated carefully..sounds like an insttuction from a zen master. everyone knows that an arabi camle rarely pees. its easier to extract milk from a bull camel than pee from camel of any gender. therefore the instruction for seeking camels urine is really an instruction to search hard for medical treatment..sice its pretty clear that a camels urine cant be gotten easily ;-) ]

Yup. Therefore it validates your POV and thus your religion. Drink camel urine - really means something else. Dring cow urine - does not.

By the way, are you Muslim, or a "low caste" ex-hindu?

Re: # 37

Jang,

That's convoluted. See, afterall, a living body is as good as a chemical apparatus. Drinking camel urine could not have been a metaphor, rather it could be better than the modern drugs. In trying to defend perceived insults, we are proly overlooking some ingenious methods.

It is not surprising to see an animal excrement helping to cure another animal's disease. If you carefully obseve, the world is designed to be self-sustaining. Consider the food cycle to be an analogy for the medicine cycle or we could even say that, during those times, food was medicine and vice-versa.

It sounds perfectly logical. That's how the life and affairs of earth could have been designed.

We have just chosen to ignore that there could be effective forms of medicinal treatments other than the ones we see.

I know for sure, goat's milk or urine helps in curing liver problems. People, in my area, used to give 'keevanulli'-a road side herb for hepatitis and this was practiced for several 100 years. In the 80s allopathy doctors created a hue and cry over this. In the late 90s, researchers(US/Europe) confirmed the efficacy of the plant.

In the jest to ward of mockery, let us not insult the intellect people of the past. It is only logical and natural for every society to have had some life saving knowledge.

Re: # 37

Jang,

That's convoluted. See, afterall, a living body is as good as a chemical apparatus. Drinking camel urine could not have been a metaphor, rather it could be better than the modern drugs. In trying to defend perceived insults, we are proly overlooking some ingenious methods.

It is not surprising to see an animal excrement helping to cure another animal's disease. If you carefully obseve, the world is designed to be self-sustaining. Consider the food cycle to be an analogy for the medicine cycle or we could even say that, during those times, food was medicine and vice-versa.

It sounds perfectly logical. That's how the life and affairs of earth could have been designed.

We have just chosen to ignore that there could be effective forms of medicinal treatments other than the ones we see.

I know for sure, goat's milk or urine helps in curing liver problems. People, in my area, used to give 'keevanulli'-a road side herb for hepatitis and this was practiced for several 100 years. In the 80s allopathy doctors created a hue and cry over this. In the late 90s, researchers(US/Europe) confirmed the efficacy of the plant.

In the jest to ward of mockery, let us not insult the intellect people of the past. It is only logical and natural for every society to have had some life saving knowledge.

{"The TV screens in every Indian home have shown us the savage joy on the faces of the goons who recently attacked poor non Maharashtrians in Mumbai that was little different from the faces of the fanatics who had attacked Sikhs, Muslims and other racial or religious minorities in earlier riots."}

Baig Sahib,
Thank you for writing and sharing this excellent and timely article. Indeed if we follow the example of Our Holy Prophet (PBUH), compassion, forgiveness, and love will define Islam rather than cruelty, violence and hatred being spread by the enemies from within.

Salaam usper ke jisske paas chaandi thee na sona tha
Salaam usper ke toota boriya jisska bhichauna tha

#2 and #3 Naqshbandi sahib,
Ma'Shallah. Our Holy Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) is certainly that Mercy to Mankind.

Hamidumdum #4 {"so instead ,i will just cuss the camel that brought him to medina "}

Hamidumdum Sahib,
Am I allowed to cuss the wagon train that brought you to Hamtramck?

ahmedmadani #14 {"One has to understand symbolic message of these stories , but blocked heads of goats will never appreciate"}

Madani Sahib,
How are you, sir? Only you can put a head to match these headless, senseless, and godless creatures' missing ones.

Why is it that the yearning for the Loved One (the Holy Prophet) is especially strong today?


Most definitely our Master, Holy Prophet (pbuh), is the only person in the history of mankind, in praise of whom, a new genre of poetry has come into being, called Na'at. Poets across the world, in almost every major language, have created magnum opus of poetry praising him.

I don't know whether the credit goes to the mastery of the poet or the beauty of Punjabi language that such masterpiece had come into existence. It is the good fortune of Punjabi language that just because of this single poem, the Punjabi language will live for ever and will never be obsolete.

This poem was written by Pir Mehr Ali Shah of Golra Sharif (Rawalpindi), sometimes in late 19th century; and to this date it warms the hearts of anyone who lends his ears.

The legend has it that Pir sahib wished that Holy Prophet show himself to him in a dream. His dream came true; and his awe, his humility, and his marvel at his good fortune expresses itself in these immortal words:

For those who know and love Punjabi language an audio of this Naa't is available here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnKuD7n04xY



English Translation:

"Aj sik mitran di waderi eh "

Why is it that the yearning for the Loved One (i.e., the Holy Prophet) is especially strong today?
Why is my heart sadder today than even before?

Why does longing penetrate every tissue of mine?
And why are the eyes shedding tears like a shower of rain?

His shining face appeared to me in a vision,
And fragrance emanated in profusion from His tresses;

I fainted from the sight of these visions;
The hordes of his eyes overpowered me.

His face shines like the full moon;
A brilliant light radiates from his brow;

His hair is black, and his eyes are bewitching and intoxicated.
His two eye-brows are like cross-bows,
Hurling darts of pointed eye-lashes (in all directions);

His lips are red like rubies of Yemen;
His white teeth like a string of pearls.

I am not sure whether I should call his face the essence of life;
Or life of the entire universe;

The truth is that it is (like) the glory of God,
From which all other (worldly) glories originated,

This face (of the Prophet) emerged from the Faceless One (i.e., Allah);
The Faceless One manifests Himself through this face.

The Colourless (Reality) has been revealing itself through this image,
Ever since Unity exploded into Diversity.

It is this face (of the Holy Prophet) that guides (mankind) to the path of Faceless One (i.e., Allah);
Nay (not the path only but) to the Ultimate Reality Itself.

However, understanding this (secret) is beyond the capacity of the simpletion;
Only the select few succeed in discovering and capturing the Pearl (of Truth).

May this Face (of the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H)) remain before my eyes,
In my last moments (of life) and on the Resurrection Day!

Then (also) in my grave, and at the time of crossing the (razor-sharp) Bridge (on the Judgment Day);
Only then shall the fake ones become pure (in the sight of Allah).

Thou (O Holy Prophet) hast been blessed (by Allah) with the promise to grant thy desire (in full);
And we (thy humble followers) have full faith in Allah's assurance that thou shalt be happy with the Bounty of Allah.

The Gracious One (we hope) shall declare us successful (in the test of earthly life);
Because we have correctly understood the Divine words: "Intercede and thy intercession shall be accepted".
Be gracious enough to remove from thy face the sheet of Yemen (O Prophet !),
And grant us a glimpse of thy endearing face.

Repeat once again those sweet words,
Which thou hadst uttered in the valley of Hamra.

Come (once again) from thy cell to Mosque,
For everyone longs for a glimpse of thy image full of light;

(And) denizens of both the worlds (i.e., this world and the Hereafter) are laying their eyes in thy path -
Human beings, angels, the houris and the fairies.

For the ones yearning and pining (for a glimpse of thine);
Who are ready to sacrifice (their lives) for thy sake;

For these slaves ready to sell themselves out without any price (in thy path);
May those moments of bliss come back once again!

Glory to Allah, who created thee (O Holy Prophet!) in the most beautiful, the best, and the most perfect mould.
Who is (the humble) Meher Ali to chant thy praises;

How (presumptuous and) impudent his eyes are to aspire to the heights of thy love!

{"I guess if someone who started at least a hundred wars (and screwed an equal number of chicks) can be considered a man of peace"}

How about the imposter who died with his nose firmly implanted in his own feces?

#41 Salim_Chauhan

[Baig Sahib,
...Indeed if we follow the example of Our Holy Prophet (PBUH), compassion, forgiveness, and love will define Islam ....blah blah blah....}

Yes. I was just trying to visualize the gory sight of a man being decapitated. The blood and the gore. The soil turned into red mud. The blood gushing out of the decapitated neck. The head lying on the mud. And then I tried to imagine a whole field of decapitated bodies.

And the HELPLESS and INNOCENT women and children. Sold like cattle. To a life of horrible degradation.

Compassion and love indeed.

friend #16 {"One question - Why are there no minorities worth counting in Middle east? Kindly don't count Shia and Sunnis as minorities in those counteries."}

Friend:

Egypt - Coptic Christians
Syria - Many types of Christians - Greek, Syrian Orthodix, etc..
Jordan - Palestinian Christians
Palestine - Palestinian Christians
Lebanon - Maronite, Druze,
Iraq - Chaldean Christians
Yemen - Jews
Morocco - Jews
Turkey - Christians, Jews
Pakistan - Christians, Hindus
Iran - Christians, Jews, Bahaais
Indonesia - Christians, Hindus
Kazakhstan - Christians.
Malaysia - Buddhists (Chinese), Christians (Chinese), Hindu (Tamils)
Nigeria - Christians

#47 Ajeya,
Does the chopping off of the hands of the poor Bihari victim by Maharashtran goondays of the right-wing religious Hindu groups constitute condolence by Ram or Krishna or even Gandhiji?

Re: # 46

I think you should refrain from such language; it is quite unbecoming of a Muslim. Our Hazoor (pbuh) has forbidden us to respond to those who badmouth, no matter what. Ijazat nahiN hay.

#30 Majumdar {"Whereas in India, minority population has grown in all states since 1951 Census and nowhere was the Muslim population decimated except in East Punjab."}

The Zodiac murderer killed people in only one out of 50 states. :)

...and East Punjab was one of the most densely populated Muslim presence in India.

From: http://khawatein.blogspot.com/

And wherever Allah’s boys are dominant, women have to be careful. Even though I am a Muslim woman who hasn’t stopped eating beef (even after marrying a Hindu), I fear my own co-religionists more than those from other communities…



See the comments at the bottom
http://drvasu.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/concept-of-god-osho-islam-zakir-n aik-and-the-acid-test/

Salim,

Why so much anger?...
Your witty, driving-sense posts have dried...There are many others who can play your newly acquired avthar...Make sure, the Salim we knew manages to survive...

Regards,

pmishra2 #31 {"Islam in south asia has been definitely violent and hegemonic ... How many buddhist, hindu and sikh temples are there? What is their condition? How visible are these minorities? Have their numbers grown or shrunk in the last 50 years?? "}

Shri Mishra ji,
I don't know about Islam in South Asia, but Muslims in Gujarat and Bombay have certainly seen much right-wing Hindu violence in the last two decades. It must be very frightening to watch your own state's police escorting murderers and rapists to your neighborhood to loot, rape, burn, mutilate, and murder little girls and then videotape such dastardly deeds. So before you start your mantra about Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Khilji, and Aurangzeb from the 10th, 13th, and 17th centuries let's talk about Thackeray and Modi from the 20th and 21st centuries.

vengatramanan #53 {"Salim,
Why so much anger?... Your witty, driving-sense posts have dried...There are many others who can play your newly acquired avthar...Make sure, the Salim we knew manages to survive..."}

Ramanan sahib,
Not anger, just disappointment. Too many Indians are using anti-Islamic orgasms as a substitute for their own parched sex lives and not enough Indians are stopping their own countrymen from this pre-feticide genocide.

#54 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on March 24, 2008 10:19:35 am

are we allowed to talk about the killings of hundreds of thousands of bangladeshis in 71 or is that not permitted in your alternate reality?

Guru #52 {"And wherever Allah’s boys are dominant, women have to be careful. "}

Guru,
...and they say the same thing about the vice squad.

#56 arjun {"are we allowed to talk about the killings of hundreds of thousands of bangladeshis in 71 or is that not permitted in your alternate reality? "}

Arjun,
I am glad that you have scaled down the allegation from 3 million to hundreds of thousands, which is still very high. Of course we can talk about that. Many Pakistanis, myself included, condemn the stupid, wanton, unnecessary, and cruel loss of life that resulted from the Paki Army's occupation of East Pakistan. Of course, we must condemn the killings carried out by the terrorist (I guess that was before the word became fashionable) Mukti Bahini and their Indian supporters across the border.

one day mr baig will write an article on bal thackreys birthday about how shivsena wants to bring message of peace to bambaiyyas where all including bhayyas can live in harmony after they respect maratha sentiments...LOL

Ajeya #38 {"jang, ...By the way, are you Muslim, or a "low caste" ex-hindu?"}

Ajeya,
Good observation, yaar. This fine specimen of Ghaati animal husbandry is an ex-high caste ex-Hindu who has now descended into becoming a non-observant lower-caste Sick Man of Chowk. Other than that he is a pretty good guy.

{"one day mr baig will write an article on bal thackreys birthday"}

Jang,
Screw the old man's birthday (he has had one too many). Tell us more about his daughter-in-law.

AJEYA #34,
Of course, you were there and you witnessed all that happening and the context of the horror was exactly as you described. My friend, you have been swallowing all that BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SS/SP/MNS bullshit without any filters.

Re: # 57

Did you go to the links. There is lot of as you say defecation on this chowk. Get off and take the highway of those links for fresh air. The article is written by Muslim lady, btw.

#58 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on March 24, 2008 10:38:40 am


Many Pakistanis, myself included, condemn the stupid, wanton, unnecessary, and cruel loss of life that resulted from the Paki Army's occupation of East Pakistan.


yeah...I've gone deaf from the screams of pakis demanding someone, anyone, from their army be prosecuted..


Mukti Bahini and their Indian supporters across the border.


yes...they killed the same number of people as the paki army..sure..maybe that's how it went down in your alternate reality..

arjun #64 {"yes...they killed the same number of people as the paki army..sure..maybe that's how it went down in your alternate reality.."}

Arjun,
...and yeah, you were right there keeping score of the killings - one Bengali, two bengalis, three .. . But only one Bihari, one Punjabi, and one Pathan.

Just because your "Made in Inja" bullshit says so doesn't make it so.

#54 salim c.

No question, events in Gujarat and Maharashtra have been tragic and abominable. No one would call Bal Thackeray or Narendra Modi men of peace. Not me or any reasonable person.

But lets also not waste time calling Mohammed a man of peace. His actions and the actions of many of his followers speak clearly. A muscular man of action, yes. A man with some excellent ideas suitable for his time, yes. A man who made sure his enemies were eliminated, yes. But lets cut out this stupid BS about man of peace etc.

And discussing islamic multi-culturalism, without mentioning the fate of the hindus and sikhs of afghanistan and pakistan is really shameful and hypocritical.

arjun,
at least when the injuns bragged about banging monkeys and elephants and shit they drew pictures and put them in stone. Too bad they can't do the same with the fabricated tales of one-sided Pak Army killings with no violence from Mukti Bahini and Injuns.

#65 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on March 24, 2008 10:58:00 am

so it's your contention that the MB killed as many people as were killed by the paki army?

in the real reality, I mean...not in pakiworld..

#49 Salim_Chauhan

[Does the chopping off of the hands of the poor Bihari victim by Maharashtran goondays of the right-wing religious Hindu groups constitute condolence by Ram or Krishna or even Gandhiji? ]

Ah! That explains it. It happened, but he had no clue.

I get it. You Muslims are amazingly good at creating alternate realities.


Okay. Now how about raping a woman whose husband and father he had murdered the same day? Are you saying that it didn't happen, or that she had the hots for him and so was unaffected by the murders of her father and husband on the same day?

Let's see what the explanation of THIS ONE is in the Muslim alternate reality universe.

#67 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on March 24, 2008 10:59:53 am

At the risk of running afoul of godwin's law, I'm sure the fact that some nazi soldiers were killed during ghetto uprisings means that the jews and nazis killed the same number of people or are morally equivalent.

#66, Pmishra,
shri Mishra Ji,
Of course you forget about the bloodless surrender of Mecca and the completely compassionate treatment of its citizens. You forget about the man who felt the need to ask about a woman's health just because she neglected to dump garbag on his head as she did daily. You have not heard or read about the man's Last Sermon at Arafat. Listen, if you want to make a moster out of him, you have every right. Fortunately, and unfortunately for you, there will be billions of people who will continue to consider him God's Mercy to Mankind (PBUH). Many have preceded you (Dante, Washington Irving, and Salamander Rushdie), so please get in line and wait your turn to hurl your garbage. He may even forgive you too.

Now, as to the number of Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan, that is a real tragedy. There were mass migrations in both directions and massive killings - even in large urban centers like Lahore, Amritsar, and Patiala. East Punjab was completely wiped clean of Muslims even though the areas adjacent to Delhi constituted some of the oldest Muslim communities in India. Unfortunately, NWFP and West Punjab were made devoid of Sikhs and Hindus. Massive migration of Hindus from Sindh took place too.

Had the numerically-superior Hindus not made threatening taunts and had the influenc of Hindu Mahasabha on Congress Party not been that intimidating, there probably would not have been a partition and we wouldn't be saying "unfortuantely" over and over again.

"daughter in law"..

yar salim i am not knowledgable about histoty of the quresh khandan..maybe kaal can help you there :)

#70 arjun {"At the risk of running afoul of godwin's law, I'm sure the fact that some nazi soldiers were killed during ghetto uprisings means that the jews and nazis killed the same number of people or are morally equivalent"}

Arjun,
What's the name of that disease - the one where merely comparing anything to Hitler or Nazis ensures winning an argument? LOL

I am saying that over the 8 or 9 months following the insurrection of Awami League in March, the Mukti Bahini killed a hell of a lot of non-Bengali AND Bengali supporters of Pakistan. So, go ahead an say that the paki army killed 3 million Bengalis and raped and impregnated 2 million bengali women - all this is silly exaggeration on your part. There was a lot of violence and much loss of life on both sides.

If there was such massive killing by the Paki Army, why didn't the Injuns try and convict the 90,000+ POWs that they had? Seems to me, then that either the Injuns were themselves implicated or they themselves didn't believe the exaggerated bullshit that somehow later generations of Injuns have just discovered.

Jang, #72 ,
Stop pussyfooting around. Did Thackeray Thok his bahoo or not?

Chohan,

Thakray or Modi are reactions to Muslims. Go to any city and check the police roaster. Muslims are disproportionately represented. We dont know is it because Inida is dar-ul-Hub or some such Arabic term for enemy contry or where Islam is perpetually in danger. Islam is dangerous for world peace.

Did u read those link?

thackre may have...she did indeed become like chief of film industry workers union or something like that and a film producer..here is an interesting profile on her

http://www.india-today.com/itoday/12071999/profile.html

no dughter-in-law of peace shyte in here

thackre may have...she did indeed become like chief of film industry workers union or something like that and a film producer..here is an interesting profile on her

http://www.india-today.com/itoday/12071999/profile.html

no dughter-in-law of peace shyte in here

Guru #75 {"Go to any city and check the police roaster. Muslims are disproportionately represented"}

Guru,
Could it be because of the massive discrimination against Muslims in education, employment in both the commercial and public sectors?

In many countries, the underprivileged are also the most inclined to take risks with the law. In the US, blacks occupy a disproportionate "advantage" in prison demographics.

guru, muslims are disproportionately in crime/unstructured bussinesses is primarily a socio-economic phenomenan, nothing to do with dar-ul-harb.

Jang,
Please don't lead me to any more wild good chases by posting links to pornographic sites. If you want my attention to focus on something worthwhile, please go the extra mile and post the pertinent information for my attention. Thank you.

Wikipedia - Unbiased Encyclopedia or a 'J..ish Tool'

Wikipedia is an internet encyclopedia, that anyone can edit and add information. Wikipedia claims it's articles are based on a totally neutral point of view. It's size is formidable, at 2.5 billion views a month.

Once you get below the surface, you find moderators that follow an agenda, which clearly takes a Pro-Jewish point of view.

Wikipedia System Of Control
Wikipedians (J...ish volunteers) will concentrate on a certain subject, and actively moderate any new replies. Once an individual edits an article, his ISP number is recorded, and he is assigned a sayanim that will monitor all his future writings.

Individual contributors are assigned a tracking page, and an open record of all writings. Through out the cycle the contributor this will be monitored by Hillel, ADL, SPLC, type control agents.

From all the available information, it appears Wikipedia was started by a two Jewish kids, one a programmer, and the other an 'Adult Site' operator. It's dynamic success (800,000 pages) stems from 10,000 + individual contributors, which are monitored by core sayanims.

Wikipedia's claim: ~ 'We are an internet encyclopedia with a neutral stance' ~ is absurd.

the jews are gonna getchya...the jews are gonna getchya..boo!!

Jai Bajrang Bali Jang Babu,

I must say that of late you have been loosing a bit of your shine, a bit of your humour and a bit of your tolerance (I distinctly remember you reprimanding me for my strong response to Naqsh). There may be a reason I am sure, but I do not want to know about it (or maybe I already know about it). Here is an example of your slack:

A poster states - "Go to any city and check the police roaster. Muslims are disproportionately represented"

Now you take this statement as the "truth" and respond:

" ..., muslims are disproportionately in crime .... blah, blah, blah"

Jang sahib, why do you take the former statement as being true? Why do you even respond to such fundoo gibberish? Something is wrong, you are even getting your spelling right! Get back to your old self. It is OK, I suppose to pull a leg here and there ... but stretching it ????

Kind regards from a friend,

GT.

Why not SC/STs, tribals etc?

Right from 50s onwards smuggling and extorton in mumbai is being done by Muslims? Mind that these Muslims are transparent eyes one from Konkan? Do you remember Haji Mastan? Dawood's father was in police service.

I have seen nomadic castes settling for education and their kids going for medicine and education. Muslims even after wealth (illgotten) do not go for education.

You are talking to someone whose 2 generations have served in police service.

I think it has something to do with that book and how Mulla interpretes it. Some Islamic leaders openly conveyed that even a criminal rapist murderer is bette rperson than Mahatma at the time of judgement. This religion for many is Kiss Hank's Ass for Million $ religion. Read my post on next board.

India should ban religions which make people rootless by asking them to change their name, abandon their language, script and allegiance to the land. If you cannot make ur town, ur lane sacred then u shud not standing on this land. If u r American Hindu then Mississipi is ur ganga and Roockies are ur Himalaya. Argonne or Fermi labs can be ur kashi & Mathura

#73 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on March 24, 2008 11:15:20 am


If there was such massive killing by the Paki Army, why didn't the Injuns try and convict the 90,000+ POWs that they had?


that's incredibly lame..no..that's neembu lame..

The PoWs hadn't killed indians. If anything, the indians could have turned them over to the bangladeshis who would have torn them apart from limb to limb..But they didn't...

GT sab (Jai Shri Krishna) you are right..the police rosters may not be disproportionate. during british times, the logs were full of Pardhis or Kolis or Thugees (so called criminal castes). my only point is the criminal enterpernuers hardly do it for (primarily) islami reasons irrespective or proportionality..definately not in india. police rosters are also prolly disproportinately low on brahmins or jains or parsees.

Re: # 36

Miyan,

Jo woh bol raha hai usko samajho ! Hans kar ke apne ko hi aur bhramit kar rahe ho!

Salim Chauhan sahib #various

Sir you don't have to direct our attention to violence against muslims. This article's basic premise is that while Christians didn't honor their treaties, and killed muslims, muslims were in general verrrry peaceful and considerate of their minorities. Given this peaceful nature of muslims, what happened to idol worshippers who used to reside in Mecca, why fire-worshippers Parsi had to run to India, and why Bahai are persecuted in Iran? What is happening to Afgani minorities? and why Saudi Arabia still can not tolerate any idols?

Re: # 31

I wonder how a few families of Hindus and Sikhs managed to survive peacefully in our predominantly Muslim village in West Punjab during British Raj while there remained none after partition under Muslim Raj.

But mind all this cleansing was permitted by the Islmic God who had made 'Maale Ghaneemat'(Conquest and plunder) 'halal' (permissible) especially for the last prophet. (PBUH).

Baig sahib haazir hoan!

pmishra#31:

"If you really want to talk about tolerance, start with your hometown. How many buddhist, hindu and sikh temples are there? What is their condition? How visible are these minorities? Have their numbers grown or shrunk in the last 50 years??"

Baig sahib is a well-known Indian and not a Pakistani. I believe he has a Hindu wife.

To check if it's book stupid, compare rosters of ciities such as Karachi, Lahore, Rawalpindi and Peshawar. Are Hindu haris disproportionately represented?

There can be other reasons such as IMs might have acquired the mindset of mughlai and other muslim shahis (lawlessness, a momin could lift Hindu's property/women.)

Personal experience: A desi looking kid had his lexus 300 with board of for sale, parked infront of comp-usa. An employee wanted a car so I went for a short drive. While entering in his car I dropped my credit card in his car. Forgot to pickup and went home. The kid was very well dressed and the car might be an year old. Before leaving the kid I called the employee and gave this kid's mobile to him. After a day I realized that I forgot my credit card. I asked employee to call the kid. The kid conveyed that he searched in the car and it was not there in his car. I blocked the card but they conveyed that there was purchase $2700 worth for a laptop, just after I lost the card. For insurance to take care of it I had to file a police complain. Police came back with video surveillance and asked me to identify the suspect. The kid was there. They called the kid on his mobile. Kid denied. I called the kid and realized that this kid was Hamza from Mirpur or some such place in Pakiland. He was only 19. He asked me not to press ahead, since I was supposed to get money from the insurance anyway. At that age he knew so much. Called his home to talk to his parents. Father was managing a Sheraton in suburb. His mother started crying, calling me bhaijan ...we are all indian etc etc.. and begged not to ruin her kid's life. I was getting too busy in my work so did not have time for police and court.

Bottomline: It's not socio-economic. when u r told - u are some chosen people with direct link to allah and all ur gunahs done on mere mortals esp on kafirs don't matter you have Hamzas all around. The mindset might have been molded by owning alien marauder as your own which encourages that for success in life u merely have to followin Kiss Hank's ass rituals of the alien religion and tag along with foreign rapist, criminal and marauders. This kind of psychological make up creates irresponsible people and nations (kargil, 65, 71 and begging to west and china or blaming everything on amrika)

You check illegal currency trade, smuggling, prostitution, bootlegging (when prohibition was in place) Muslim's are in forefront.. Even in US, disproportionately more muslims are in shady trades such as stolen car parts and auctioning of such cars.

If India does not take care of Muslim self created alienation problem another holocaust of partition will be necessary. This time no territory might be lost but lot of innocent blood will. Muslim elite and Masadi like intellectualize should focus on this impending crisis rather than neocons. Yu Pakis and IMs for allah sake give a big goodbye Chumma to distant Umma ... ur past, present and future depends on working with well meaning indians.

UN should ban organized religion all over the world. Promote spirituality which brings people together.

#90 dost_mittar

Ok, fair enough, that an indian should write this is even more unfortunate, so let me re-phrase my question:

If islam is inherently multi-cultural and peaceful, where are the sikh, hindu and buddhist temples of Afghanistan and Pakistan? Hindu and Budhist traditions were active in this region for 3000 years - and most important - where are the hindus, sikhs and buddhists??? Gone, all gone, slowly but systematically reduced to near zero..yes, I realize there are some left in villages of sindh. But not for long...

Dont even get me started on the jews of saudi arabia and yemen or the zoraostrians of iran...

Just talking about Spain and Turkey is one part of the story. Its like insisting that Akbar represents all of islamic history in South Asia...There is also Aurangzeb and Shah Wahiullah and their modern day descendants.

Re: # 78
Salim:-
Dalits and tribals are most disadvantaged group in India. Their crime record is far better than that of any other group in India.

Re: # 73
Salim...
If there was such massive killing by the Paki Army, why didn't the Injuns try and convict the 90,000+ POWs that they had?

Ans: They were POWs, and according to Geneva convention, India have to release these POWs. It was BD, who have to take final decision.

Re: # 51
Salim:-
...and East Punjab was one of the most densely populated Muslim presence in India

Ans: ...and so it was given to India rather than Pakistan!!!!

Re: # 54
Salim:-
So before you start your mantra about Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Khilji, and Aurangzeb from the 10th, 13th, and 17th centuries let's talk about Thackeray and Modi from the 20th and 21st centuries.

Ans: Ch. Ch. Ch.... Moslims started these riot, and when they were paid back with the same coin RSS and Shiv Sena has become bad!!!!

Re: # 74
Salim:
Indians treat daughter-in-laws as daughter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imrana_r