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Why not hang Surabjit Singh?

Beena Sarwar March 21, 2008

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#52 Posted by beenasarwar on March 29, 2008 2:04:15 am
Re: # 46
See "Criminals - or victims of an unjust system" - http://www.chowk.com/articles/7273
We all do what we can. Unfortunately, I did not hear about the Zahid Masih case until after the poor man was hanged. The case only strengthens the arguments against the death penalty.
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#51 Posted by VRV on March 27, 2008 12:35:39 am
Good news that Mr. Ansar Burney is going to India to work for the release of Pakistani prisoners and meet the family members of Sarabjit.

Jeo Ansar.

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#50 Posted by jayp on March 26, 2008 11:13:15 pm
Re: # 47
laddu,

Already the PML-N has said that they are going for talks with the jihadis so that they do not bomb paki cities. This of course is not jihad, killing fellow muslims is a taboo.

So the jihadis will operate out of pakistani safe heaven and attcak other religionist, and that is true jihad.

As an islamic republic pakistan had and will continue to support jihad.

The latest acheivement for pakistan is some paki hijackers in china.

Pakistan has to be iraquised.
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#49 Posted by ana on March 26, 2008 6:14:58 pm
yeah, that's just what we need. alarm bells. Pakistan does not need to be dismantled, karvay laddu. You on the other hand, need help.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye!
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#48 Posted by shivsenna on March 26, 2008 5:35:37 pm
Re: # 47

Laddu, you are doing us more harm than good.
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#47 Posted by laddu on March 26, 2008 4:28:05 pm
After elections , the Jaza-e-Jehad has increased amongst Paki momeens.
The script that has been implanted in their minds would run it's inevitable course.

More attacks on indian cities is expected from Paki momeens. More attacks are also expected on cities in west- especially Europe.

It would only stop unless Pakistan is dismantled!!
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#46 Posted by ana on March 26, 2008 3:09:51 pm
Ms. Sarwar,

Just out of curiosity, did you write anything like this for our own people languishing in jails, sentenced for crimes they did not commit. Why did it have to take the death sentence of Surabjit Singh, whose execution has been stayed, and not that of poor illiterate Zahid Masih who was executed, for you to write this?

I could not have done anything for Zahid Masih, and I would wish no harm to come to the Singhs, but if your voice is an important one, why hang Zahid Masih? Singh going free obviously is not going to change the practices for our own people, even if helps diplomatically.

Apologize for the cynicism, if any. . . just curious.
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#45 Posted by majumdar on March 25, 2008 9:43:53 pm
Urstruly,

(Had this law been on the book no one would have dared blowing up people and public property. )

I suggest you guys launch a movement post haste to introduce this law in Pak. There will be no blowing up people and public property in Pakistan after that.

Regards
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#44 Posted by harish_hyd on March 25, 2008 9:38:00 pm
#42 by Urstruly

Isn't it quite obvious now that God's Law is there to benefit us?

Yaar Ursy, there were crimes even during the Prophet's time - supposedly the golden era of mankind. Otherwise, there would have been no need for such laws. And here you're talking about times when every single human being (okay, I may be exaggerating here but you get the point) on this planet is guilty of at least such things such as lying and paying bribes. If for every crime, a limb or a foot is chopped off, then this world would be left with no able-bodied human beings. And for even simple things such as washing your behinds, you would need someone else's assistance. As for us kafirs in India, the number of railway accidents would double because our favorite squatting place is beside the railway tracks.
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#43 Posted by GT on March 25, 2008 6:59:42 am
VRV - good post. harish_hyd, if I am forced to select one capital punishment, I would choose the one you recommend :)
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#42 Posted by Urstruly on March 25, 2008 6:40:48 am
Re: # 38

Sarbjit is convicted of very serious crimes which include carrying out three separate bombings in Lahore, which claimed the lives of 14 people and injured dozens. The Qisas (Blood money) and Diyat (compensation for injuries) is the law of the land. That is his only ticket to avoid hangman's noose. So far, all Presidents have been overstepping their authorirty to commute death sentences, which is the violations of Divine Law.

Unfortunately, in violation of Allah and His Prophet's command, the chopping off of limbs on opposite sides is not a law in this country yet. So if the blood money is accepted his sentence may be commuted to whatever the law says about damaging public property. Isn't it quite obvious now that God's Law is there to benefit us? Had this law been on the book no one would have dared blowing up people and public property.
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#41 Posted by ferozk on March 25, 2008 5:31:10 am
re: harish_hyd #38

I second your comments.

Ciao
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#40 Posted by VRV on March 24, 2008 11:06:18 pm
raheel07,

As for the fishermen's issue, it's tragic that these ppl who make livelihood by fishing on high seas are caught as if they stole the state secrets on high seas! It’s laughable to say the least. Indian/Pakistani Coast Guards can turn them away but there lies the fundamental reason of recurrence of trespass.

Fishermen in India and Pakistan operate with kerosene as fuel to run the 19th century boats. They dont have fishing harbours to dock their boats and store their catch in cold storages. The whole cycle of operations is still rudimentary. They bring the catch and their daughters & wives do separation and grading of the catch. The dealers come and buy the catch and cart off the goods to markets.

I talked to some fishermen who venture to high seas. They always say good things abt Pakistani fishermen. They exchange food and cigarettes on high seas. They help each other like a community.

Now forget abt GPS or any sort of communication setup for May Day messages for those hundreds of boats that venture out to Arabain sea everyday, they even dont have modern day boats that are equipped to be helpful to fishermen in all aspects of their tasks. They still use kerosene lamps at nights. Keep their catch in the hull of the boats

So in a way these ppl are innocent in aspects of the word coz they don’t have:

1. Proper fishing boats
2. No Fishing harbours with cold storages
3. No GPS or any sort of communication system to know their position on high seas

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#39 Posted by raheel07 on March 24, 2008 9:48:07 pm
I also support that death penalty is not a solution or a proper punishment as in humantarian issue.

But the government could have surely give him life-long sentence because if he is a spy and is freed in few years imprisonment then the message they are giving across that hey we welcome spies, do your work happily, if you are lucky enough you will not get caught, or else it is just some years imprisonment.

As far as the legal access to people like fishermen who crossed the borders is concerned, I solely agree but it is a faulty system afterall. It can't also be ignored that some one out of them can be a spy too. I am writing this with government's perspective but my own opinion lies in friendship and open borders. Both countries need to work not alone but collectively in creating this awareness and feeling of humanity and friendship but how they will if they themselves lack these.
-Raheel Lakhani
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#38 Posted by harish_hyd on March 24, 2008 9:42:34 pm
#31 by Urstruly

However, for the crimes committed against state property and infrastructure his left hand and right foot should be chopped off.

Is there an Islamic law for people who talk big from the comforts of their drawing rooms in foreign lands but are too chicken to live among the very people for whom they advocate these so-called laws? If there is none, I suggest chopping off the balls. These people do not possess the metaphorical balls anyways, so not having the real ones shouldn't make much of a difference.
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#37 Posted by akcheema on March 24, 2008 7:27:17 pm
Re: # 36; Majumdar bhai

I reckon one (hand or foot that is) either side of the hanging process should even things out..........
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#36 Posted by majumdar on March 24, 2008 7:15:46 pm
Urstruly,

(However, for the crimes committed against state property and infrastructure his left hand and right foot should be chopped off.)

Before he is hanged or after he is hanged???

Regards
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#35 Posted by tahmed32 on March 24, 2008 4:08:59 pm
#29 munir khan was the project leader for the pakistan nuclear bomb. AQ Khan was subcontracted one of 17 steps involved in making a bomb. Being a self-promoter, Khan elbowed his way into publicity (e.g. holding a press conference after the 1998 explosions, when in fact he had been invited to attend the test only after requesting PAEC). I was told this by a PAEC man. The dislike for AQ Khan by the team responsible for actually building the bomb is public knowledge.

AQ Khan became world famous because of his making money for himself by selling Pakistan's nuclear secrets to all buyers, and thus putting the entire national strategic defense in jeopardy. Musharraf has been protecting him and his false image of being the "father of the pakistani nuclear bomb" for reasons best known to Musharraf. Perhaps the truth will now come out.

Munir Khan is another one of the heroes of Pakistan like the Chief Justice who have contributed greatly and without fanfare (of the Musharraf or AQ Khan type) towards strengthening the national defense. He is a true hero of Pakistan who made sure the nation is secure from any attempts by India to overrun the country as it did in 1971.

I dont know why you are trying so hard to defame this unsung national hero. But the truth comes out in time, and your ignorance will be revealed when one day this man's true contributions to Pakistan are made public.
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#34 Posted by Urstruly on March 24, 2008 3:47:47 pm
Re: # 33

The same applies to Musharraf.
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#33 Posted by VRV on March 24, 2008 2:10:36 pm
#31 Posted by Urstruly on March 24, 2008 11:58:16 am

What punishment does Musharraf is eligible for for the murder of hundreds - if not thousands - of Pakistani citizens?

N.B: I think the next of the kin of the victim(s) pardoned Sarabjit.
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#32 Posted by GT on March 24, 2008 12:29:10 pm
#31 Posted by Urstruly:

"I don't know why do we have to re-invent the wheel ..."

One is not talking about re-inventing the wheel. One is talking about changing a punctured wheel.
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#31 Posted by Urstruly on March 24, 2008 11:58:16 am

I don't know why do we have to re-invent the wheel everytime we come across a predicament like this. The Islamic law on such kind of prisoners or condemned is very clear:

1. If there is a treaty between the two countries regaqrding exchange of prisoners etc.; obey the treaty first.

2. If there is an international law governing such criminals then obey the law first. According to Geneva Convention, the spies and un-identified foreign fighters do not have immunity from prosecution.

3. In Sarbjeet's case, the condition#2 applies. If he is found convicted of terrorist activities then not only the state but his victims, if alive, or the relatives of the deceased are party to it. If these people take Qisas (blood money)and diyat (compensation for loss of limb or injury) and forgive him, then he cannot be hanged. However, for the crimes committed against state property and infrastructure his left hand and right foot should be chopped off.

President or head of state has no authority to pardon any criminal - none whatsoever.
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#30 Posted by ajeya on March 24, 2008 7:33:31 am
It should be clear to anyone but the very simple-minded that, as the good Paki authorities keep reminding us, the bomb blasts in Pakiland are the handiwork of Indian spies. This is an inescapable conclusion given the secular and pacifist nature of Paki society.


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#29 Posted by pavocavalry on March 24, 2008 5:56:12 am
Small Spies Must be Hanged , While Bigger Ones Prosper

A.Amin


There is great talk now about hanging or not hanging this or that Indian or Pakistani convicted for spying.


Brigadier Tirmizi ex ISIs book profiles of intelligence states that Munir Ahmad Khan Chairman Atomic Energy Commission Pakistan was spying for USA.One of the editorials of Pakistan Times published in 1947 or 48 stated that G.Ahmad brother the first Pakistani Director of Intelligence Bureau a brother of secretary Aziz Ahmad was a British spy.The list is countless.ayub khan also refers in his diaries to the incident that Indian war plan was purchased in late 50s , what gohar ayub in glimpses from corridors of power states was sold by FIELD MARSHALL MANEKSHAW for a gardening set.Another Indian author I read also stated that Manekshaw had links with Brits.All these can be debated but the fact remains that in pakistanb and india only poor border crossers referred to in intelligence terminology are prosecuted.no one has charged anyone for genocide or for any betrayal at higher level. The law is basically for the poor man.in cases of espionage official secrets act of 1923 , no politician bothered to revise this arbitrary british law.Its so arbitraty that a man loitering near any armed forces installations can be hanged.No Pakistani politician made any attempt to change it.Even the Pakistani politicians failed to give the army personnel the basic constitutional right to appeal enjoyed in India.Thus while ZA Bhutto did allow this initially , he immediately took it back once the Attock Conspiracy took place.

If you look at the Pakistani politicians they are 80 % the descendants of those who collaborated with the British in 1857.
Statistics reveal that between 10 to 200 suspects in espionage cases are tortured to death by the armed forces intelligence agencies.No one is prosecuted.There is no record of these tragic victims of outright murder.The excesses committed by Pakistani law enforcement agencies armed forces , civilian intelligence or police can be fairly matched with Indian excesses in Kashmir.Why talk about plebiscite in Kashmir.What about a plebiscite in Balochistan or tribal area.

The grand party of crooks continues since 1947.Malik Riaz gifts expensive houses to army generals many of them sons of rankers and no one talks.But when Captain Babar was mistakenly and falsely convicted of removing a bulb from his office he was dismissed from army.Now we have Corps Commanders called Crore Commanders but they are perfectly respectable.

As I see it now the army and politicians in Pakistan have compromised.So the looting party will start with greater enthusiasm.I doubt if any new government will change anything.Musharraf is a mean mortal.He will go but the nexus of civil military corruption will stay.As long as this state exists.

no court sentenced general afzaal pakistani DMO or Field Marshal Manekshaw or Moraji Desai ex PM India to death.

Notes from Spynest published in many volumes from US documents captured from US Embassy Tehran state that Pakistani boss of military operations,custodian of Pakistani warplan was a US spy.The names include Sahibzada Yaqub also .Gohar Ayub Khan's memoirs state that Indian Chief Manekshaw sold the Indian war plan in 1950s to buy an expenisve gardening set for his wife which was then bought from paki intelligence money.moraji desai ex PM india was said to be a CIA spy.Its all economic . these death sentences for the poor man only.

As I understand that in Pakistan there is no law.One force is the army , another are the feudal-industrial politicians and thats all.Since the country was created by a small franchise not beyond 5 % of the population its a story of crooks looting the country.Basically financed by Muslim business classes from Gujrat and Bombay with support of Punjabi and Muslim feudals who were heavily in debt to Hindus this so called Islamic Republic was haven of all crooks.The situation continues till todate.Now the army generals again mostly lower middle class or middle class social climbers struck a deal with politicians condoning their scams by the so called NRO.This was done by Musharraf not for any idealistic reason but so that he is not prosecuted for his corruption.A magna carta of crooks.
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#28 Posted by harish_hyd on March 24, 2008 12:34:34 am
#27 by harish_hyd

The mercy petition was filed by Tabassum Guru, Afzal Guru's wife. Here's the reference:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/oct/03parl.htm
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#27 Posted by harish_hyd on March 23, 2008 10:27:17 pm
#21 by zeemax

How's Sarabjit Singh comparable with Afzal Guru in India? One is ready to hang, while the other is begging for life.

Are you sure? Afzal Guru did file a mercy petition and begged to be let off because he wanted to see his kids growing. I will see if I can find some references.
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#26 Posted by nkg on March 23, 2008 10:14:29 pm
Sarabjit is the best person to tell us, whether he was spy/mastermind behind the blast. BTW, if he had entered Pakistan without proper document, he should have approached Pakistani authorities for returning back in India.
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#25 Posted by jayp on March 23, 2008 9:13:37 pm
Jinnah said every Pakistani was “First, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges and obligations.” He reminded them that even among Muslims there were “Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on”, and among the Hindus there were “Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris … and so on”. These distinctions had to vanish in the political sphere if progress was going to be achieved.
//////////////////
At last pakistan is on teh path top progress per jinnah dictum.

In 1947 there were 23 precent non-mulsims. Now it is less than 2 percent. Ahmadias have been chased out or killed off. Shia doctors and other prominanr shias have vanished. Per the jinnah dictum, pakistan is an alomost homogeneous state ready for progress
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#24 Posted by jayp on March 23, 2008 9:13:12 pm
Jinnah said every Pakistani was “First, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges and obligations.” He reminded them that even among Muslims there were “Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on”, and among the Hindus there were “Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris … and so on”. These distinctions had to vanish in the political sphere if progress was going to be achieved.
//////////////////
At last pakistan is on teh path top progress per jinnah dictum.

In 1947 there were 23 precent non-mulsims. Now it is less than 2 percent. Ahmadias have been chased out or killed off. Shia doctors and other prominanr shias have vanished. Per the jinnah dictum, pakistan is an alomost homogeneous state ready for progress
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#23 Posted by jayp on March 23, 2008 8:49:17 pm
singh should be freed because there is no legal system in pakistan.

All of the NAB cases have been dropped because mushy wanted it.

muktaran ami, initially no one was arrested, as in other rape cases in pakistan, now four sre sentenced to death because mushy wanted it.

benzir crime scene is washed clean while the generals crime scene is preserved.

there is no legal systen in pakistan. sighs case could be no better than the NAB cases. It coul;d be like the muktaran mai, mushy or some earlier general wanted it.

Pk legal system is a sham.
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#22 Posted by GT on March 23, 2008 11:37:07 am
#21 Posted by zeemax:

I am against the death penalty. Whether, or not, Mr. Guru wants to hang or be hanged is besides the point.
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#21 Posted by zeemax on March 23, 2008 10:47:40 am
#20 Posted by GT,

Sarabjit Singh has been found guilty by Pakistani courts. He should be put behind bars for life. But he should not hang. The same holds true for Afzal Guru in India.

How's Sarabjit Singh comparable with Afzal Guru in India? One is ready to hang, while the other is begging for life.

There's no exchange here ... GT Bhai. No comparison.

I would say, hang Afzal Guru, and let this bharati sob live. Give him life imprisonment courtesy of Pakistani exchequer for his daily daal/roti for the rest of his days. Guru obviously doesn't look forward to that.

Besides, it will make the NGO types happy.
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#20 Posted by GT on March 23, 2008 7:57:43 am
Beena,

Very well said. It is high time we abolish the death penalty. Let us, for the time being at least, not confuse it with prisoner exchange etc. The death penalty is barbaric, period. Several studies have shown that it does not help in deterring crime. Sarabjit Singh has been found guilty by Pakistani courts. He should be put behind bars for life. But he should not hang. The same holds true for Afzal Guru in India.

Pavo has rightly pointed out that it is almost always that the poor guy hangs. I would like to add that "hangings" sprout from a barbaric political base (or "demand" if you may), from the US to Afghanistan. It is unlikely that uncivilized countries like India and Pakistan will abolish the death penalty in the near future. But, there is hope for the future. And it is because of people like you.
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#19 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 23, 2008 7:04:53 am
Re: # 7 and 8. Sir you have put things in real perspective.
All over in developing areas laws are for poor and helpless people and if rhere is discrition then it is used against most poor people and for powerful is used to help them.

It is very ironic Lenin penned theme carrying Marxian ethos of weather of state in his famous treaties "state and revolution". The oppressiveness of state was vivid for americans like jefferson and other hand marxists also. Both considered state as oppressive appratus to supress people at alter of state supremacy. It was so oppressive many saints and sages over history just defied by abandoning and going to places where state has less control and people respected them for defying state.

One of reason English ruled better than natives was their fairness of treatment of law. My grand father use to say they were good people and fair to natives. He use remember a thing which impressed him. When he was working in school one education inspector came to visit and was happy to see things. Then in headmasters office sahib lit cigaratte , head master did not like , but his Chaparasi came told sahib it is prohibited , he profusely appologised and asked for forgivence.
Difference so transparant where state white wash black looted money and places so openly and making special exemptions for Mr and MRs Z and B. Now it has desensetised all rules or naturual justuice system.
They say Indian foreign service was considered better home civil service in england. As they had great responsibilites and do work and development. It is said top people use to prefer india service , then home civil and last africa etc. So india use to get best and brightest officers and intelligence has age and propensity towards fairness ?

Most standards british officers dealing with natives were far better than this present native govts. ( politics is other matter at higher level and they were suppress and exploit).

I t can be remembered british parliment started enquary and british viceroy killed himself.

Two systems one for poor and one for people who make laws abd bend them like rubber.

Good night
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#18 Posted by tahmed32 on March 23, 2008 5:14:55 am
beena sarwar: i agree there should be no hanging - not just of surabjit singh, but of anyone. Reason: DNA evidence has revealed that even in the US innocent men have been put on death row. As a result, one governor (illinois i think) put an outright ban on further executions, and other stays have also started going slow on executions. in Pakistan there is all the more reason to believe that innocent people have been executed or are on death row.
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#17 Posted by VRV on March 23, 2008 4:37:14 am
Killing i/0 killings

caught in this i/o caught int his
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#16 Posted by VRV on March 23, 2008 2:18:27 am
...we put this behind us...
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#15 Posted by VRV on March 23, 2008 2:16:13 am
I dont know how Manjit planted bombs in both Multan and Lahore at the same time!

Killings innocents is not an exclusive terrain of any group, country or individuals. India/Pakistan does this to each other. Pakistan does in its own country & so does India for her citizens. America does this in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Unfortuately only a few perpetrators are caught in this and sent thru this charade of dispensing justice. Mistaken or otherwise Sarabjit fits in to this category of ppl who was caught int his game of India and Pakistan.

As for death penalty, it's the curiousity aspect that grips us asll whereas Indian/Pakistan police kill ppl routinely in encounters, lock-ups and thru collusions (criminals, anti-social elements). May be we dont protest if Sarabjit is killed by police in India by Indian police in lock-up or encounter.

India is not a paragon of HR virtues.

It's the time we put his behind us and exchange prisoners (not necessarily one2one but state2state) and move ahead. Death penalty debases us as human beings.

If killing 14 ppl is the crime that Sarabjit got to go to gallows, how many death penalties shud Musharraf got to undergo?? Unfortunately, it's the BIGGER criminal (Musharraf) who's deciding the fate of the smaller criminal (Sarabjit).
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#14 Posted by akcheema on March 23, 2008 1:14:27 am
Re: # 13 Zee Bhai

since I live and work in Australia, it is only fair to have some sense of loyalty to the place.

I AM a Pakistani, and like I said somewhere recently here, I do intend to live and work there in the near future

Unfortunately, you and I both know about "convictions" in our part of the world; not to say things are always hunkey dory everywhere else....
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#13 Posted by zeemax on March 23, 2008 1:00:37 am
#12 Posted by akcheema,

atheistic bhai, this guy is convicted of many bombings killing 14 Pakistanis, including one of planting a bomb on a bicycle in Lohari Gate which caused major deaths and injuries. His only defense is a frivolous one i.e. of mistaken identity which has been closely examined and found to be false - by many courts.

Now, if your David Hicks was guilty of killing 14 aussies (since you're no longer Pakistani so I'll attribute your true loylaties and not say Pakistanis) would you still say about him what you said in #10?
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#12 Posted by akcheema on March 23, 2008 12:35:30 am
Re: # 11; Zee bhai

Under similar circumstances, with lots of doubts and having no faith in our judicial system, the answer is YES.

I actively participated in the campain for the release of both Aussie citizens, Mamdouh Habib and David Hicks from Guantanamo because I had no faith in the "justice" they might receive.

That is not to say that I had any doubts about the reasons behind their presence in Afghanistan.
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#11 Posted by zeemax on March 23, 2008 12:13:56 am
#10 Posted by akcheema,

Atheistic bhai, would you say the same for a bomber Jihadi?
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#10 Posted by akcheema on March 22, 2008 11:22:30 pm
Let the man go to his family for crying out loud! In the name of whoever you claim to believe in, a good deed towards another human being is not that much to ask for!
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#9 Posted by beenasarwar on March 22, 2008 10:47:26 pm
Excellent piece by Farhatullah Babar, PPP spokesman and former senator, in The News, March 21, 2008 -
http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=102396

He notes that Sarabjit’s family located him in 2000 (ten years after the arrest) and that the convict said that the prosecution had forced him to admit to a wrong identity. "The Supreme Court dismissed his appeal in August 2005. Unfortunately, our record of convictions on the basis of confessions alone is not very remarkable," says Babar, listing several such cases & pointing out that execution on the basis of confession alone (as in Surabjit's case) can turn out to be a national embarrassment and cast shadows on relations between the two countries.

Babar also notes the strangeness of the timing of Surabjit's execution date announcement "after nearly three years of limbo, and just when a democratic government is to enter office. Let it not be said that it was cynically timed to warn the new government against pursuing its vision of peace in the region. It is one thing when issues of peace are decided behind the scenes by those who want to hang every Indian crossing into Pakistan but quite another when public representatives are asked to pay the political wages for it by making it look like their decision."
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#8 Posted by pavocavalry on March 22, 2008 10:19:56 pm
brig tirmizi ex ISIs book profiles of intelligence states that munir ahmad khan chairman atomic energy commission pakistan was spying for USA.One of the editorials of Pakistan Times published in 1947 or 48 stated that G.Ahmad brother of secretary aziz ahmad was a brit spy.the list is countless.ayub khan also refers in his diaries to the incident that Indian war plan was purchased in late 50s , what gohar ayub in glimpses from corridors of power states was sold by FIELD MARSHALL MANEKSHAW for a gardening set.Another Indian author I read also stated that Manekshaw had links with Brits.All these can be debated but the fact remains that in pakistanb and india only poor border crossers referred to in intelligence terminology are prosecuted.no one has charged anyone for genocide or for any betrayal at higher level.
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#7 Posted by pavocavalry on March 22, 2008 10:15:09 pm
the law is basically for the poor man.in cases of espionage official secrets act of 1923 , no politician bothered to revise this arbitrary british law.

no court sentenced general afzaal pakistani DMO or Field Marshal Manekshaw or Moraji Desai ex PM India to death.

Notes from Spynest published in many volumes from US documents captured from US Embassy Tehran state that Pakistani boss of military operations,custodian of Pakistani warplan was a US spy.The names include Sahibzada Yaqub also .Gohar Ayub Khan's memoirs state that Indian Chief Manekshaw sold the Indian war plan in 1950s to buy an expenisve gardening set for his wife which was then bought from paki intelligence money.moraji desai ex PM india was said to be a CIA spy.

its all economic . these death sentences for the poor man only.
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#6 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 22, 2008 8:14:31 pm
Re: # 4 Please find some thing than old silly childish T shirt commentary. Hope you grow out of jalosy. Same this year is is 2008 and 1971 ie 37 years ago, you may not be in world I was 23 still i forgot but you have just hobby like old man loosing memeory. You only remember T Shirt and 1971 nothing more and nothing less. It sign of premature sign of loosing memoery may be yu can add to your fruit and grass diet some vitamin M ( memory) bring back your memory.

Now if you had read articles about 1971 thing by YLH he proved through indian sources ( some intelliget lady related to some big man Mr. Basu) the killings were multiplied by big "Indian Factor" you know multiplication and not more than many died. Though it is sad people kill each other. Most sad is still you are not ready to grow up stop childish naughty behaviour. Now most have lost charm of your mischiviousness and you have become insult to intelligence decency and if you want to grow up as "NORMAL" you need to get out of your jalousy factor which is worrisome. Now its hard for you to takes orders from managers and get scolded for wasting time and machines of company for paying you full amount and you are wasting time on silly things, you can be forgiven if retired honorably as me ( some times i am afraid you are fired from job and you sit in ittle cyber cafe in little depressed american town as an assistant dusting computers and making tea for white boss and frustruted just write something to amuse yourself than giving good info sprinkled with wisdom as many have done here). Sorry but provokes me by your blocked head and afforont to decency and intelligence and repeated abuse of T shirt story. Stop it , its silly.)
Good luck hope you improve so your parents feel better.
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#5 Posted by bjkumar on March 22, 2008 6:15:13 pm
Beena, a good piece. And - like all your pieces, backed up well with a lot of facts and figures!

I personally think that the Mushy is unlikely to allow this execution to take place because (1) he benefits nothing or very little from it and (2) the cost in terms of a setback to the process of the thaw will be considerable.

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#4 Posted by arjun_5 on March 22, 2008 3:29:45 pm
#2 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 22, 2008 1:30:23 pm


they on average execute 40 to 60,000/per year. people for crime and its fastest growing economy.


you killed at least 5 times that in 71...so was your economic growth rate in 71 50%?
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#3 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 22, 2008 1:46:22 pm
Re: # 2 Idea is humilate enemy. Like force him to make food and serve,Dishes, send him to pick up vegetables and cut them wash them, wash laundry by hand. But do not hurt physically , he can eat food after everybody eats and dishes washed. Humilate but do not hurt.
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#2 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 22, 2008 1:30:23 pm
Re: # 1 may be spies and dirty players give 25 years punishment , then people he harmed can employ as servant for 15 years ( no salaray) and then govt of India pay 30 million rupees and same for otherway. So tension does not go up.

But state can execute its citizen. It works look at china there is discpline they on average execute 40 to 60,000/per year. people for crime and its fastest growing economy.Fear is the key which makes people to behave.
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#1 Posted by zeemax on March 22, 2008 10:49:36 am
The late Dorab Patel, ... His reasons: human fallibility and faulty legal systems ...

Perhaps not human fallibility, but faulty legal systems are definitely a good argument against the death penalty.
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