War of Another Kind

PS:

And many momins understand that... you can see it right here in chowk. Most paki momins have already lost the appetite for jihad and rampant bedouinism. Except for incorrigible fools like zee and urstruly - most other pakis are ready to be civilized...

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A.K. Cheema ji,

'before this 'nishan-e-manzil' can afford to widen its horizons, it needs to get through the next few years to establish some institutional control over its internal affairs; then to address INTERNAL injustices first before embarking upon EXTERNAL adventures.'

I have not read all of your interacts, but based on this one, I have to tell you that you have pinpointed the problem. And, I hope the day never comes where Pakistan has to interfere in the affairs of other nations. It is better to solve its own problems first and then go on becoming even better than that.

May I say that with Pakistanis like you there's hope for your country.

kaal

your attempt to catch your own tail is an excercise in futility... it's very simple really - if momins try to kill me, I will whack them back - it doesn't matter who committed the "injustice", where and when...

Momins can take their "cry me a river" mentality and shove it where they want - kafirs don't really care... momins must understand that... otherwise, it's hellfires and daisy-cutters... there ain't a thing momins can do about it...

re #282

Laddu Sahib,
you got it wrong on all three counts: I am neither Muslim, nor a Mian nor only a humanist.

#285Cheema Sahib,
Excellent post!

kaal yaar, it almost always comes down to subjectivity and relativity. Injustice to a muslim might not be injustice to a non-muslim and vice versa. To suggest that muslim perception of injustice should be universal is not only stupid, it belittles muslims to nothing more than kneeling and bobbing automatons who haven't a working brain cell to understand the other viewpoint. I am sure this is not what you are suggesting.

Secondly, robbing me for my own good because you perceive it to be something beneficial for me and yourself is another idiocy that can land people in the nuthouse.


Lastly, what muslims perceive as injustice or not is irrelevant. They haven't the power, the resources or the intellect to promote their views in a manner that 5/6th of humanity understands. All this jihadism etc..is not some coordinated strategic push for establishing the word of god. It is simply a cry for help for seeing the word of man trump the word of god. They are getting left behind...and if that means tehy should be separated from the rest of the world, as per their wishes and that might in some way lead to a revival of a khilafa or something, than so be it. The next few hundred years are the age of the idol worshippers...and payback is a bitch.

Re: # 295

Whatever makes you happy brother!

Of all the things thrown at me, this is the funniest. :) :)

Cheema ji, hope that is the (original) ka of Kipling's books, not ka of the movies!

Re: # 293don't be so afraid of people of principle, such as tahemdji or Urstruly (so long as they stricly adhere to principles of Islam/justice).

arent you supposed to do like......sssssuch ....asss urssssetruly.......ssssso long assss they .....of Issslaam..... that's how he (Ka) did it in 'The Jungle Book'!

laddu ji, basically, money in your pocket does not belong to you if you are using it to further unjust causes. Removing it from your pocket is not robbing. It is actually helping you become a better person.

You are living in a dreamworld if you think that momeens will be jailed and the Quran will be banned anywhere.

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As a practical matter, don't be so afraid of people of principle, such as tahemdji or Urstruly (so long as they stricly adhere to principles of Islam/justice). People with whom non-Muslims need to be extremely careful are those who divide the world in areas in which Islam operates (inhabited by non-Muslims), and areas in which Islam does not operate (inhabited by Muslims).

This is getting dragged unnecessarily. You can have the last word on this for now.

Re: # 288 Eklavya

Is this your new (perhaps always has been) position; to be the spokes-person for others and have an explanation handy, ready to go at the drop of a hat?

Re: No 290; Laddu

Give it a rest now please; I think you have made your point (several times actually). Thank you.

Re: # 286

laddu,

Many women in pakistan are taking this 72 virgin stuff literally, and they are eloping at a young age so that they do not become victims of some jihadi.

NWFP today has performed the first stoning to death to counteract this tendency. see dawn of today

Re: # 287

"As a non-Muslim, you, or mohar, or CA obviously don't see Islamic justice as justice, but that is not Muslims' problem! "


what the heck!! How is it MY problem and not a momeen's problem??
It is like some body trying to rob saying that he believes that it is right and it is YOUR (victim's) problem if he considers it as wrong!!

WTF, you have completely screwed up logic of the Islamists!

This is indeed a momeen's problem and he better change himself if he wants to live with good will amongst kafirs and idolators without brandishing his sword all the time or waving that book of threats called Quran in our face.
You know - making threats is punishable offence in modern world and any momeen trying to threaten us by waving Quran should be put behind bars.
Nay, his Quran should be BANNED!!!

We may not agree with the life choices of such people, but they are not our biggest challenge. Simply because they have a moral compass, howsoever different than ours.

For all non-Muslims, the biggest challenge is presented by those Muslims (Pakistanis, for our discussions) who require only non-Muslims (non-Pakistanis) to be just, and assume Pakistani state to be just simply by the virtue of being Pakistani.

(In other words, as far as the outside world is concerned, there is no difference between these two groups of people.)

Hope Ustruly bhai will forgive me for lifting his most recent post, but here it is. It is about implementing justice in Pakistan first.

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#211 Posted by Urstruly on April 1, 2008 5:42:28 pm
Re: # 202 hamidm

My demands are simple. As a matter of fact it is the only way to save yourself from mohammeden killers:

1. Force army itself to court martial Musharaff for treason etc.

2. Establish independent election commission

3. Re-enact all deposed judges.

4. GOP must apologize to people of Swat, Waziristan, Baluchistan; pay Qisas and Diyat to all effected Pakistanis there.

5. GOP must apologize to nation for the tragedy of Lal Masjid; pay Qisas and Diyat.

6. Hold new elections with in next 3-6 months.

7. Annul all constitutional ammendments post October 1999.

If these basic steps are not done not just Mohammedens but rest of Pakistan will be asking for the head on the platter of these political leaders just like they are asking for the head of musharraf now

cheema ji,

People agree with you. Urstruly, zee and other followers of Islam are doing precisely what you require of them - addressing internal Pakistani injustices first (Urstruly is more explicit and impatient of the two).

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This is a much more honest view than the blind labeling of any Islamic effort at addressing INTERNAL Pakistani injustices alone as pure criminality. That's not only dishonest but also foolish. Justice will not spare anyone.

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laddu mahraj

Yaar, this is getting too far afield. I am telling you - Muslim pursue and will always keep pursing justice. You can ask any believing Muslim and see if that is true or not.

As a non-Muslim, you, or mohar, or CA obviously don't see Islamic justice as justice, but that is not Muslims' problem! The concept of Islamic justice follows strictly from the Quran (and the life of the Prophet).