War of Another Kind

Soviet directly intervened in Afghanistan, as it was neighbouring state. There is a cultural continuity of Northern areas of Afghanistan with USSR state of Tazik/Uzbek...Some section of Afghan society invited advanced USSR to assist Afghanistan in field of administration and technology...Communism, so far, was not treated as failure and was doing well in most of the countries...If USA was able to reign on USSR, it was the economic might of western european states (France, Germany, UK, Spain, Portugal, Italy...), most of these states were rich through colonialisation of Asia and Africa...Rampant corruption in communist states worsened the situation and brought downfall of communism...communist/socialist govt. had brought rapid growth of human skill development, for which eastern european states, china, vietnam have promising future in knowledge based economy...Regarding Afghanistan, though it was peaceful, it was not growing economicaly or any social indicators. Russian intervention could have brought better infrastructure, skill, knowledge and administration in Afghanistan. The sabotage method adopted by islamists (it is popular within Islamic warriors for long time) in south (Talibs), destroyed the future of Afghanistan...
The state of Pakistan was supposed to be like this...There is no point blaming USA or anybody else for this...the foundation of Islam (...which looks for violent options rather than logical and decent solutions) is the major cause of problem of Pakistan...
Why this problem is so much visible now, rather than post partition of India/creation of Pakistan? The intellectual head of civil society in Pakistan ( Teachers, lawyears, policy makers, administration...) was mostly Hindus and the administration was run under the strict supervision of British Govt. When all the positive effect faded away, Pakistan is back to basics (Islam)...

Soviet directly intervened in Afghanistan, as it was neighbouring state. There is a cultural continuity of Northern areas of Afghanistan with USSR state of Tazik/Uzbek...Some section of Afghan society invited advanced USSR to assist Afghanistan in field of administration and technology...Communism, so far, was not treated as failure and was doing well in most of the countries...If USA was able to reign on USSR, it was the economic might of western european states (France, Germany, UK, Spain, Portugal, Italy...), most of these states were rich through colonialisation of Asia and Africa...Rampant corruption in communist states worsened the situation and brought downfall of communism...communist/socialist govt. had brought rapid growth of human skill development, for which eastern european states, china, vietnam have promising future in knowledge based economy...Regarding Afghanistan, though it was peaceful, it was not growing economicaly or any social indicators. Russian intervention could have brought better infrastructure, skill, knowledge and administration in Afghanistan. The sabotage method adopted by islamists (it is popular within Islamic warriors for long time) in south (Talibs), destroyed the future of Afghanistan...
The state of Pakistan was supposed to be like this...There is no point blaming USA or anybody else for this...the foundation of Islam (...which looks for violent options rather than logical and decent solutions) is the major cause of problem of Pakistan...
Why this problem is so much visible now, rather than post partition of India/creation of Pakistan? The intellectual head of civil society in Pakistan ( Teachers, lawyears, policy makers, administration...) was mostly Hindus and the administration was run under the strict supervision of British Govt. When all the positive effect faded away, Pakistan is back to basics (Islam)...

Re: # 228
Hamd...
Ans: Idiot!!! People from around the world get lost in US/Australia...you Pakis/moslems do that in barbaric arab land...

Re: # 305
Zeemax... Why to bring Sita and all when they are dead? I want to do that ( you described...in #305) on your sister/wife. 5 INR, OK? Rate negotiable...Visa and all is my responsibility...

Dear Chowkies:
While this may not be directly related to the article, I offer my responses to Mr. Laddu's points as a sincere attempt to bridge the misunderstanding between Injuns and Pakis. Enjoy.

Laddu,
Yaar, thank you for enumerating the different ways in which you love us Pakis and Muslims. My reciprocating emotions are in bold.

{"Please do become "stable" - because an unstable Pakistan is not good for us."}

It's not like we're mentally unstable or anything. We just like to fight a lot - and when you Injuns don't wanna fight, we just practice on each other. Next time we'll keep the noise down and not wake up your "peaceful country." What with Meos, Naxalites, Maoists, and Gujjus trying to get their beauty sleep for the Miss Inja contests.

{"We are already addressing our problems - you do yous"}

Yeah, Laddu, but you just end up addressing most of your problems to us. If we ever find out that even one of the so-called "Jihadi" attack was "Made in Inja," rest assured that a whole lot of dhotis will be unraveled for starters - after we forcibly change their color to shitty yellow.

{" Just do not set your jealous and hateful eyes on us.
We do not want to do anythng with you."}

Well said - especially after you butt in, bifurcate our country, and then become more hated by the Bengalis than you are hated even by the Tamils of SL. If ever we become so ugly, so poor, and so stupid as to be jealous of you, it will be time for all Pakis to commit one last act of suicide - in Delhi. Thank God, we ain't sunk so low yet.


{"We do not want you to use our names. First stop using our name and change it to mahammad something like Salim Mohammad."}

Good point! I have often thought about that, but then how would I have lured Hindu chicks into my lair as I introduced myself as "S. Chauhan?" First impressions are important, after all. Of course, once introduced to the Pride of the Rajput, all differences in religion had been set aside in the worship of suntanned superiority.


{"Do not watch our movies. Do not sing our songs. Do not wear our dresses. Tell your woman to waer chadors all the time."}

Your movies? Your songs? Your dresses? chadors?
Your Bollywood movies wouldn't mean jack shit if it were not for the Urdu dialogue - which BTW is OUR language that we speak at home without the subtitles (or dictionaries) you assholes have to read to understand YOUR own movies.

Stop stealing our Paki songs, because after Javed Akhtar, you may well have the end of "Indian" Ghazals - the backbone of most Bollywood songs. All good shairi is in Urdu - the language of Pakistan. Only the Hindi news as in "Some Achaar Some Apt hui" is your language - and even I can't understand it while I can understand Bollywood movies and Z TV - obviously your SOME ACHAAR and movies are not in the same language.

As for dresses,
Shalwar and Qameez are Muslim in origin and even the words are not Injun. Gharara is Muslim and was invented by Nur Jahan, an Iranian. Even the longer six-yard sari is not Injun. The Injuns used to wear a much shorter version, barely enough to cover the waist and nothing up top - not that I am complaining here, infact damn the Muslims for covering up the Injun tits.

The chador is from Iran, but then the word ghoonghat is Hindu. So, figure that one out. Maybe the Hinjus were also hiding their females' faces long before Tariq or Mahmood arrived with their superior weapons and organs.

{"Forget it, we want nothing to do with you. Just go to your Arabian land and eat your dates."}

We agree on this one. We also don't want anything to do with you - just stop meddling in our country. Also, we will eat our Arabian, Iranian, Californian, Israeli, and even Indian dates - why does that cause you mirchi? We like to eat dates. :(W)

Zee,

Tu hai munafiqoon..you head deserves to be chopped off because you misinterpret Prophet's words and put words in his mouth that he never spoke!!!

and as a hinud tax payer to US gov't - I should be owning part the credit, or blame, as the case may be... right?

Re: # 306 zee

well, the topic was the fight between momins and kafirs, which includes lowly hinoods... as you know - it's always yahood and hinood conspiracy... :)

#309

Why would a hypocrite go to Wana, when he can interact from the comfort of a living room offered only in a democratic society?

Zeemax, go to wana wana or wherever the fk you jihaids blow each other in NWFP, if you see a predator drone circling overhead, just turn around and moon it (your shalwar should already be around your ankles per the dress code among jihadi hijras), when the hellfire comes and lands in your gaand, look at teh inscription. it will say "paid for by CHaltahai's taxes"

that will bring clairty to your quesiton in #306

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#305
angry jihadi,

when you give the same freedom of expression to your own mother and sisters that you give yourself, you would be considered half honest. Until then you would be a full hypocrite.

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zee

That hit you hard, didn't it?... :)

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PS:

And many momins understand that... you can see it right here in chowk. Most paki momins have already lost the appetite for jihad and rampant bedouinism. Except for incorrigible fools like zee and urstruly - most other pakis are ready to be civilized...

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A.K. Cheema ji,

'before this 'nishan-e-manzil' can afford to widen its horizons, it needs to get through the next few years to establish some institutional control over its internal affairs; then to address INTERNAL injustices first before embarking upon EXTERNAL adventures.'

I have not read all of your interacts, but based on this one, I have to tell you that you have pinpointed the problem. And, I hope the day never comes where Pakistan has to interfere in the affairs of other nations. It is better to solve its own problems first and then go on becoming even better than that.

May I say that with Pakistanis like you there's hope for your country.

kaal

your attempt to catch your own tail is an excercise in futility... it's very simple really - if momins try to kill me, I will whack them back - it doesn't matter who committed the "injustice", where and when...

Momins can take their "cry me a river" mentality and shove it where they want - kafirs don't really care... momins must understand that... otherwise, it's hellfires and daisy-cutters... there ain't a thing momins can do about it...

re #282

Laddu Sahib,
you got it wrong on all three counts: I am neither Muslim, nor a Mian nor only a humanist.

#285Cheema Sahib,
Excellent post!

kaal yaar, it almost always comes down to subjectivity and relativity. Injustice to a muslim might not be injustice to a non-muslim and vice versa. To suggest that muslim perception of injustice should be universal is not only stupid, it belittles muslims to nothing more than kneeling and bobbing automatons who haven't a working brain cell to understand the other viewpoint. I am sure this is not what you are suggesting.

Secondly, robbing me for my own good because you perceive it to be something beneficial for me and yourself is another idiocy that can land people in the nuthouse.


Lastly, what muslims perceive as injustice or not is irrelevant. They haven't the power, the resources or the intellect to promote their views in a manner that 5/6th of humanity understands. All this jihadism etc..is not some coordinated strategic push for establishing the word of god. It is simply a cry for help for seeing the word of man trump the word of god. They are getting left behind...and if that means tehy should be separated from the rest of the world, as per their wishes and that might in some way lead to a revival of a khilafa or something, than so be it. The next few hundred years are the age of the idol worshippers...and payback is a bitch.

Re: # 295

Whatever makes you happy brother!

Of all the things thrown at me, this is the funniest. :) :)

Cheema ji, hope that is the (original) ka of Kipling's books, not ka of the movies!

Re: # 293don't be so afraid of people of principle, such as tahemdji or Urstruly (so long as they stricly adhere to principles of Islam/justice).

arent you supposed to do like......sssssuch ....asss urssssetruly.......ssssso long assss they .....of Issslaam..... that's how he (Ka) did it in 'The Jungle Book'!

laddu ji, basically, money in your pocket does not belong to you if you are using it to further unjust causes. Removing it from your pocket is not robbing. It is actually helping you become a better person.

You are living in a dreamworld if you think that momeens will be jailed and the Quran will be banned anywhere.

--------------

As a practical matter, don't be so afraid of people of principle, such as tahemdji or Urstruly (so long as they stricly adhere to principles of Islam/justice). People with whom non-Muslims need to be extremely careful are those who divide the world in areas in which Islam operates (inhabited by non-Muslims), and areas in which Islam does not operate (inhabited by Muslims).

This is getting dragged unnecessarily. You can have the last word on this for now.

Re: # 288 Eklavya

Is this your new (perhaps always has been) position; to be the spokes-person for others and have an explanation handy, ready to go at the drop of a hat?

Re: No 290; Laddu

Give it a rest now please; I think you have made your point (several times actually). Thank you.

Re: # 286

laddu,

Many women in pakistan are taking this 72 virgin stuff literally, and they are eloping at a young age so that they do not become victims of some jihadi.

NWFP today has performed the first stoning to death to counteract this tendency. see dawn of today

Re: # 287

"As a non-Muslim, you, or mohar, or CA obviously don't see Islamic justice as justice, but that is not Muslims' problem! "


what the heck!! How is it MY problem and not a momeen's problem??
It is like some body trying to rob saying that he believes that it is right and it is YOUR (victim's) problem if he considers it as wrong!!

WTF, you have completely screwed up logic of the Islamists!

This is indeed a momeen's problem and he better change himself if he wants to live with good will amongst kafirs and idolators without brandishing his sword all the time or waving that book of threats called Quran in our face.
You know - making threats is punishable offence in modern world and any momeen trying to threaten us by waving Quran should be put behind bars.
Nay, his Quran should be BANNED!!!

We may not agree with the life choices of such people, but they are not our biggest challenge. Simply because they have a moral compass, howsoever different than ours.

For all non-Muslims, the biggest challenge is presented by those Muslims (Pakistanis, for our discussions) who require only non-Muslims (non-Pakistanis) to be just, and assume Pakistani state to be just simply by the virtue of being Pakistani.

(In other words, as far as the outside world is concerned, there is no difference between these two groups of people.)

Hope Ustruly bhai will forgive me for lifting his most recent post, but here it is. It is about implementing justice in Pakistan first.

-------------

#211 Posted by Urstruly on April 1, 2008 5:42:28 pm
Re: # 202 hamidm

My demands are simple. As a matter of fact it is the only way to save yourself from mohammeden killers:

1. Force army itself to court martial Musharaff for treason etc.

2. Establish independent election commission

3. Re-enact all deposed judges.

4. GOP must apologize to people of Swat, Waziristan, Baluchistan; pay Qisas and Diyat to all effected Pakistanis there.

5. GOP must apologize to nation for the tragedy of Lal Masjid; pay Qisas and Diyat.

6. Hold new elections with in next 3-6 months.

7. Annul all constitutional ammendments post October 1999.

If these basic steps are not done not just Mohammedens but rest of Pakistan will be asking for the head on the platter of these political leaders just like they are asking for the head of musharraf now

cheema ji,

People agree with you. Urstruly, zee and other followers of Islam are doing precisely what you require of them - addressing internal Pakistani injustices first (Urstruly is more explicit and impatient of the two).

--------

This is a much more honest view than the blind labeling of any Islamic effort at addressing INTERNAL Pakistani injustices alone as pure criminality. That's not only dishonest but also foolish. Justice will not spare anyone.

----------------------------

laddu mahraj

Yaar, this is getting too far afield. I am telling you - Muslim pursue and will always keep pursing justice. You can ask any believing Muslim and see if that is true or not.

As a non-Muslim, you, or mohar, or CA obviously don't see Islamic justice as justice, but that is not Muslims' problem! The concept of Islamic justice follows strictly from the Quran (and the life of the Prophet).

Re: # 284

"It might help to think of Jihad as pursuit of justice. Those 72 virgins, kafir loot etc, if any, are the rewards of pursuing justice through jihad.

So long as the non-Muslim/non-Pakistani world does not become just, Pakistani jihad will not stop. And no war sees continuous live action."

Miyan Kaale Khan,

Can you tell us what is your concept of "injustice" that is different from the ordinary "principles of justice" that is so clearly enshrined in the kafir world's constitutions and laws??

Is it "injustice" when a mushriq like me speaks and ridicules the threats of death that emanate from Quran all the time??

Is is "injustice" when a mushriq like me speaks against the threats from Quran and Mohammad to destroy my idols?

Is it "injustice" when an idolator speak against momeens trying to rape my women and loot my hard earned assets?

Is it "injustice" when I seek the right to build my temples and install new idols in the momeen lands ??

Is it "injustice" when I reject Sunnat as the most regressive of all the 'moral' codes that need to be consigned to dust bin??

Tell us Kaale Khan ji what is your concept of "injustice" that is superior to that enshrined in the code of human rights??

Re: # 283 Eklavya
"I argued that when Pakistanis see injustice outside of Pakistan's boundaries, some of them will rise to actively fight it, when and if they can, or can afford to."

Eklavya I am not sure what the hell you are talking about; I fear you are even less sure on that than I am!

What injustices and what reward?!! What about ALL the injustices going on within the boundaries of Pakistan to its OWN poor, disadvantaged, women etc; you have a very narrow armchair view of the world man!

There are many nations around the world with perceived injustices; they are not using the same tactics; what makes the Muslims so special?

I think you need to decide which side you are on; either openly confess to being a radical Muslim or try not to participate in discussions with such a narrow view point. I went through a big chunk of your recent interacts collectively and guess what? you seem to be a bigger Jihadi then anyone else I have seen on these boards! Be true to yourself and declare where your allegiances lie so we know what the hell we are dealing with!

btw; before this 'nishan-e-manzil' can afford to widen its horizons, it needs to get through the next few years to establish some institutional control over its internal affairs; then to address INTERNAL injustices first before embarking upon EXTERNAL adventures.

It might help to think of Jihad as pursuit of justice. Those 72 virgins, kafir loot etc, if any, are the rewards of pursuing justice through jihad.

So long as the non-Muslim/non-Pakistani world does not become just, Pakistani jihad will not stop. And no war sees continuous live action.

(All this is assuming that Pakistan will continue to be a place where many believers live.)

We have gotten sidetracked into discussing tricky Islamic-unIslamic issues, dr mohar and CA bhai :)

My argumment/suggestion was rather simple - about what we can expect to happen sooner or later. I argued that when Pakistanis see injustice outside of Pakistan's boundaries, some of them will rise to actively fight it, when and if they can, or can afford to.

I reject the view that Pakistanis would FOREVER and totally abandon Jihad as a 'mistake of the past'.

------------

What injustice is, whether Pakistanis should or should not militarily interfere in the world outside of their geographical boundaries - these issues are simply beyond our ability to hammer out here and, like my or anyone else's personal situation, not even important to the discussion.

Re: # 280

"I for one don't believe that all Muslims want to attack non-Muslims. The inherent Goodness within is very difficult to get rid of, no matter what your beliefs."

Miyan Look Saheb,

You are already a munafiqoon. The seeds of humanism exist in you. The only thing to be seen is whether this humanism can question the actions of your prophet or not?
Can you use this humanism to put the mard-e-momeens and their sunnat under test?
Now question whether "humanism" as a moral world view that puts man at the centre of the universe can ever become part of Islam that puts Allah and his Prophet at the centre and relegates the Kafirs to the dustbin of dhimmitude and consigns mushriqs and idolator hindus like me to Allah's torture chambers??

Please , do question Islam with your humanism. You appear to be a good man.

kaal

cat got your keyboard?... :)

#268 Eklavya,

Fighting injustice doesn't have to mean forgetting one's humanity.

#269

Laddu ji,

I for one don't believe that all Muslims want to attack non-Muslims. The inherent Goodness within is very difficult to get rid of, no matter what your beliefs.

#274 Posted by Eklavya

... will Pakistanis always allow injustice to flourish around the world without doing their part?

Pakistan manzil nahin, nishan-e-manzil hai.

(Gen Retd Hameed Gul)

"if a muslim attacks a non-muslim based on some ill perceived injustice"

braather kaal, who defines the injustice? If a muslim attacks an illperceived injustice and attacks, isn't that circular logic? A concept you are quite defensive about?

And on the flip side - when momins do injustice on your kafir self, what's your plan of action?

Re: # 273 kaal

That's the question. Have you done and/or supported "injustice" to the momins?

pandit ji, that is much better.

As a practical matter, though, if you look through entire history, you will find that wherever and whenever Muslims are accused of attacking non-Muslims, they ALWAYS did so because non-Muslims were UNJUST. The only exceptions might be (and I am not sure of this) in the early days of Allah's message being received, when a sufficient number had to convinced, even if they at first rejected it.

Thereafter it's been a self-propelled, rolling mechanism spreading justice everywhere.

---------

To return to Mr. Naqvi's article, will Pakistanis always allow injustice to flourish around the world without doing their part? We will have wait and see...

gtg, see ya later, pandit ji.

---------------

mohar11, of course! If I support injustice I will be attacked. Nothing special about me or anyone else.

Re: # 268 kaal

Yep - and the outside world has the right to attack back... which is what happening now - hellfires and daisy-cutters are raining down... momeens are being blasted to heaven in droves...

Question is - what about you personally?... you as an outside kafir person - do you deserve to be personally attacked?

Re: # 268 kaal

Yep - and the outside world has the right to attack back... which is what happening now - hellfires and daisy-cutters are raining down... momeens are being blasted to heaven in droves...

Question is - what about you personally?... you as an outside kafir person - do you deserve to be personally attacked?

Re: # 270

bhaiyya Kale Khan ,

For a momeen nothing is more "unjust" than a kafir rejecting the Quran after having been told about it's 'divinity'!!!
That itself is a reason for liquidation or enslavement as a dhimmi.

pandit laddu ji mahraj

That is a theological answer, and a wrong one at that. Rejection itself does not necessitate liquidation. It simply means complete domination. Liquidation of all rejectors will be bad political policy in any case.

In human terms, outside world deserves to be attacked primarily because it is unjust.

Re: # 268

Bhaiya Kale Khan,

The outside kafir world is ALWAYS there to be attacked by the momeen hordes. Only through attacks would kafirs be subdued and 1/5 th of the loot distributed in the Ummah. Then of course the steady flow of Jizya would trickle. And imagine all those sex slaves or kafir kaneezas that would be available to the momeens like you.

Yes, indeed the kafir world "deserves" to be attacked because as per the logic of Islam and the paedophile mafiaso profiteer rejection of his supremacy as a profit and his message is the gravest sin deserving liquidation!!

Look, are you assuming that the outside world does not deserve to be attacked?

This article seems to be all over the place.

On one level, it points to some truths like how come no tourist would want to visit Pakistan(such a real shame, considering how much this country can offer), on the other hand, it expresses childish hopes like 'only politics can solve the extremism problem.'

How do you suggest that could be done? The jihadi-killers will only stop attacking within Pakistan if Pakistan allows them to use it as a base attacking outside. How do you think the outside world will would react to that?

#238 Posted by arjun_5:

"Jacob said Osmani was far away in Sylhet. A helicopter was sent, but he could not reach on time as the helicopter was shot at."

This is true. The helicopter was being flown by a cousin of mine. His arm bone had a metal plate screwed on it. My cousin died some years back. According to him they could have died that day itself.

Re: # 263
[...Moulvi Nazir whose office in Wana was hit by a rocket or something yesterday, is pro-Pakistan/USA militia leader ...]

May be he flipped... I know you don't like my saying this - your "tribal" people turn quickly for a few dollars... so this dude may have betrayed US and hellfire was the price to pay...

Congratulations to all...

{Pakistan’s 24-member cabinet sworn in ISLAMABAD, Mar 31 (APP): President Pervez Musharraf administered oath to the 24-member cabinet of premier Yusuf Raza Gilani at a ceremony at Aiwan-i-Sadr on Monday}

These head-wagging madrasi ape types who rant & rave and copy/paste about Taliban all day, do not know that the tribal leader Moulvi Nazir whose office in Wana was hit by a rocket or something yesterday, is the anti-Mehsud and pro-Pakistan/USA militia leader set up by the Pakistan Army to resist Baitullah entering Wana region - and who actually fought a war alongside regular Pakistan army against the Tajiks/Uzbeks in FATA last year.

The idiot doesn't know that it was Baitullah's attack, not USA. But no surprises. Head wagging lowly monkeys will be exactly that.

Hamidm,

"why don't desi men clip their ear and nose hair ? "

Do we have to clip? :D

Cheemaji,

Indians bob their heads to see if both your left and right side concur on what they say...Haven't you seen the hypnotists' bob...:)

"...It was quite intriguing to see barely 12-13 year old kids deftly handling AK-47s as guards..."

Momeens use innocent children in order to protect themselves.......what a mafiaso shit religion is this

zeemax #254 A bunch of armed men of the kind you mention is no match either for the Pakistan forces nor a substitute for elections.

Glad we agree on the second point. I was glad to see the picture of an old college friend from the fata areas in Dawn recently who was making a speech in Peshawar about something to do with human rights I think. Although we havent met in 30 years, the picture reminded me of the fact that in fact the educated people from fata are very much part of Pakistan society. So, that crowd represents only part of the story.

#254 Posted by zeemax on March 30, 2008 10:26:28 pm


In fact I don't know how come a predator didn't appear?


hellfires don't pay for themselves...US forces don't waste them on a gathering of chickenshits such as yourself..they were used to blow up another taliban "militants"..didn't you read?

Re: # 253

Zee,

I have to agree with you. I am no Sharma and no mrs will agree so much with me.

Good on you Mrs sharma, welcome to chowk, let us do the pakibashing, tag team style.

Re: # 254

{there was a huge rally of Pakistani Taliban at Khar in Bajaur Agency yesterday addressed by the Deputy Chief Maulvi Umar.}

Rejected by the majority, they can do their war dance as much as they like, but its a matter of time before they are put to rest.

{...It was quite intriguing to see barely 12-13 year old kids deftly handling AK-47s as guards.}

And that does not worry you shows the mental depravation suffered under religious fascism.

{In fact I don't know how come a predator didn't appear? There were thousands of Taliban in one place which would ordinanarily have been a godsend for the americans.}

Be patient, all in good time.

Re: # 253

In a country where employers can have two accounting books, minimum wage is another excuse to pay lower taxes. Since you live in your world of delusion with no sense of reality let me educate you for free. When mimimum wage was Rs 4,500, employers were paying Rs2,500 to their workers and have then sign on the Rs 4,500 list. No one could complain because of the long que waiting to get in. Point being, this Rs 6,000/pm is nothing but political chicanry when the same people who are parlimentarians are also the violaters.

Another stupid thing was the 1600cc car for those who travel in 3500cc four wheelers, now these fat cats are expected to come down and use these 1600cc's.

Add to the stupidity of allowing student unions without putting any restrictions on carrying arms.

Basically, much of the news is hype created for public consumption, the real issue of power transfer remains to be tested.

#252 Posted by harish_hyd re#121

Going by the logic in this post, doesn't it mean it can be vanquished?

If you want to nitpick, theoretically it can. Going by my personal opinion which you have referred to, it cannot. Satisfied?

#241 Posted by tahmed32 re #224

Whatever the outcome, it seems to me the only thing to watch out for is - will the people of fata have the basic rights the prompted the Chief Justice to take a stand against dictatorship in the first place? Will they be able to vote in free and fair elections for local leaders, or will they continue to be ruled by unelected rulers in the name of "tradition"?

Well ... there was a huge rally of Pakistani Taliban at Khar in Bajaur Agency yesterday addressed by the Deputy Chief Maulvi Umar. Clips were shown on TV. It was quite intriguing to see barely 12-13 year old kids deftly handling AK-47s as guards. Quite amazing. These people mean business ... that's for sure. In fact I don't know how come a predator didn't appear? There were thousands of Taliban in one place which would ordinanarily have been a godsend for the americans.

Anyhow, the clear demand laid out was 'Islamic System' in their areas. So I guess the form of democratic system prevalent in Pakistan will not be acceptable to them. They will continue as quasi-independent as before, though this time under Sharia rule instead of the FCRA.

My own sense is that the forces of change (economic progress due to international community viewing such investments as being in their own immediate interest; opening of fata residents to the outside world due to emigration, education - there are some highly educated people from fata working around the world; impact of a dynamic media in pakistan) in fata are getting stronger by the day. What do you think?

Yes it is quite possible the above occurs. If only we are able to politically accommodate the demands of the FATA people (which we consider unpalatable i.e. Sharia rule &/or support to the Afghan Resistance), I believe the FATA region has great potential in resources and manpower.

#230 Posted by MrsSharma,

LoL ... interesting new incarnation Jayp! Why this particular one? I thought this was the name assigned to a particular indian interactor's wife whose weight, girth, occupation, and rate of remuneration have been the subject of some speculation ...

Re: zee -... has anything changed. Has there been a value shift in the political demands, did any party talk about law and order, jobs and water shortages.

You must be kidding. The minimum wage has been increased from Rs. 4,5000/p.m to Rs. 6,000/p.m, one-job per family has been committed, the 30-day judiciary restoration countdown starts from today, and brick-lining of irrigation canals has been announced as the first quick-win project in conserving water by preventing seepage. All this is even 'before' the Government has been sworn-in which is today.

I thought injuns were more adept at reading Pakistani news than Pakistanis themselves!! Missed them yesterday?

#121 by zeemax

Point is, you ignoramus, that if something never existed before (though it actually did for some fifty years), it doesn't mean it can never exist!

Tying yourself up in knots, are you? You keep claiming that Muslim civilization has never been vanquished before. Going by the logic in this post, doesn't it mean it can be vanquished?

Re: # 249

I agree, Pakis must has mastered the technology of car parts that they can be rigged as bombs........the sickness of momeen mind is so typical that it even affects the closet murtids that they also behave exactly like the Islamists outwordly even if they remain murtids in thought!!!

Re: # 248; Hamidm Sahib

a quick question. It has bothered me for a long time; even more than "the chicken and egg" dilemma!

Why do Indians bob their heads from side to side when the speak?

Cheers

#245 Posted by mohar11 on March 30, 2008 4:04:32 pm


Yep, while hanoods are "taking over" the world of automobile with their Tatas


hamidm's brothers have a lock on the auto parts business..i.e. making automobile parts from automobiles i.e. car bombers market...

Re: # 245

mohar,


.... batas? .... who the heck are they ? ......... i thought it was a swiss/chezk shoe company whose products have been used to terrorize children for many generations ........ my butt still hurts when i hear that name - don't tell me you dastardly hindoos are behind this chamber of horrors !

Re: # 240

tahmed

"The Oriental doesn't put the same high price on life as does a Westerner. Life is plentiful. Life is cheap in the Orient."

Re: # 243

anil mian,

.... either the guy had bunions or he was an indian in disguise ........ another question: why don't desi men clip their ear and nose hair ? ..... even observant jihadis who religiously shave their armpits and pubic hair have the same problem .......... what's up with that ?

Yep, while hanoods are "taking over" the world of automobile with their Tatas and world of high fashion with their Batas - hamidm's compatriots are running wild in ankle length pants with a bombs on their chests and dreams of 72 virgins in their hearts.... :)

Now anil, if he was wearing bata's then he would certainly be a fashionista...:-)

Re: # 233

Hamidm Sahib:

... but here is a more important question for you: why do indian men wear sneakers with dress pants - it bothers the crap out of me !..."

Until last week this used to blow the heck out of me too. A friend of mine is visiting from Chicago, and both of us went to Gucci Store in Santana Row here in San Jose last week. A blue-eyed tall blonde all american salesperson in impeccable blue suit walked up to us to greet us.

Guess what else he was wearing.

Yes, white sneekers!!!!!

Neither of us could take the eyes of, and at simultaneously said, "Indian Fashion Has Arrived at Gucci".

I wonder if any Indian has patented it.

hamid
[....why do indian men wear sneakers with dress pants...]

or for that matter, open toe sandals with dress pants... who knows?... hanood fashion works in mysterious ways...

But it's still better than wearing ankle pajamas and a vest stuffed with dynamite - like what zeemax and urstruly are wearing right now...:)

#224 zeemax: You are right that pakistani military incursion into fata broke the long-standing "deal" the locals had made with the brits and which the Pakistani governments carried forward.

As the pm said, at least the ball has been set rolling in considering the FCR issue. No doubt an open debate in the NA creates the possibility of a reasonable solution. Options range from 1. retaining the status quo (i.e. fata are "special territories") to 2. making fata a fourth province to 3. making fata additional districts as part of NWFP.

Whatever the outcome, it seems to me the only thing to watch out for is - will the people of fata have the basic rights the prompted the Chief Justice to take a stand against dictatorship in the first place? Will they be able to vote in free and fair elections for local leaders, or will they continue to be ruled by unelected rulers in the name of "tradition"?

My own sense is that the forces of change (economic progress due to international community viewing such investments as being in their own immediate interest; opening of fata residents to the outside world due to emigration, education - there are some highly educated people from fata working around the world; impact of a dynamic media in pakistan) in fata are getting stronger by the day.

What do you think?

hamidm #226 i have told you many times that namecalling is not an argument. you have been calling for for banning masadi who has the same problem - are going to call for yourself to be banned now?

as for what westmoreleand, i told you not to hide behind someone who is not around to speak for himself.

I wont waste time going around in circles with you. Just remember those four fingers you have been pointing at yourself that I brought to your attention next time you get the urge to start insulting poor people from your high and lofty perch in michigan.

#222 zeemax: "I welcome that double edged sword. There must be justice to all - period. That's the first principle. Everything else is secondary."

So we are agreed on this central issue then.

speaking of wars..this is how the paki army's chaddi was removed...note the impotent rage...

'Niazi was forced to surrender in public in Dhaka'
Saturday, 29 March , 2008, 13:30

Dhaka: The Pakistani general whose surrender signalled the liberation of Bangladesh, did so, much against his wishes, "before the people of Dhaka", says the Indian officer who organised in 1971 modern history's only public surrender by a vanquished force.

Pakistan's Lt Gen. A A K Niazi was reluctant and wanted to discuss "only a ceasefire under the UN". Later, he agreed to surrender, but in his office.

Niazi later claimed that he had been "blackmailed" into surrendering at a public ceremony, watched by thousands, at Dhaka's Race Course (now Suhrawardy Udyan).

"But I did not blackmail him," insists Lt Gen. (retd) J F R Jacob of the Indian Army to whom instructions from New Delhi were merely: "Go and get surrender".

Jacob narrated the events of December 16, 1971, over 36 years after they happened, during his current visit at the invitation of Bangladesh Army Chief Gen. Moin U Ahmed.

Niazi, unwilling to surrender and that too in public, relented after prolonged talks when told that there could be retaliation from angry people of Dhaka, The Daily Star said on Saturday.

Giving Niazi 30 minutes to make up his mind, Jacob walked out. "Going back, I put the paper on his table and asked him, 'Do you accept this document?' For three times he didn't answer and I picked it up and said (it's) taken as accepted," he went on.

During the negotiations, he also asked the Pakistani general to surrender his revolver. "He put a dirty little revolver. The lanyard was dirty and frayed in parts."

In his book Surrender at Dacca: Birth of a Nation, Jacob said he realised only later that the pistol was not Niazi's. It was a normal army issue .38 revolver.


"The barrel was choked with muck and apparently had not been cleaned for some considerable time... More likely, Niazi had taken it from one of his military policemen and surrendered it as his personal weapon. I could not help feeling that in his own way, Niazi had got a little of his own back," he wrote.

The surrender was before joint India-Bangladesh forces, to which Major General Rao Farman Ali of the Pakistan Army objected. Pakistanis, 93,000 officers and men, would surrender only to Indians, he said.

Jacob said the Pakistani officers were livid at the "humiliation" and swore that they would take badla (revenge).

In holding a public ceremony, the Indians were taking a risk too, with not many troops mobilised yet.

"I knew we had hardly any troops outside Dhaka and it was problematic for public surrender... But had it been better to be in safety and make him surrender in his office? No. I wanted him to face the people."

Recollecting those historic moments, the architect of surrender ceremony said, "Niazi retorted, 'Dhaka would fall over my dead body'. But I did it the way I thought it should be. I didn't have any directives or instructions for it. Was it wrong, I ask you?"

Gen. M A G Osmani, chief of Bangladeshi forces, could not be present at the surrender ceremony, a point that has rankled the Bangladeshis.

Jacob said Osmani was far away in Sylhet. A helicopter was sent, but he could not reach on time as the helicopter was shot at.

Re: # 228

I guess those indian soldiers went out for a "morning walk"; but only if they knew that the railway tracks here are electrified.

rockets red glare, the bombs busting in air



Missile hits Taliban leader’s office

Our staff reporter
WANA — A missile hit office of a local Taliban commander, Mulla Nazir Wazir, in Dok area of Wana, South Wazirsiatn, on Sunday after noon. The administration said it was a remote controlled bomb.
Because of the off day, no causality occurred, however the office was razed to ground, the local reports said. The local Talibans claim that the office of Mulla Nazir was hit with a missile fired from somewhere. Two weeks back, in the same area another missile hit a local Taliban hideout wherein number of people were killed.
However, the administration, said that building was destroyed because of remote controlled bomb installed near Mulla Nazir’s office. An official of political administration said that they were investigating the matter and at present could not form any opinion, adding that after investigation, administration would make public the findings of the reports.

#228 Posted by hamidm2 on March 30, 2008 10:40:57 am

OHMYGOD...they must be planning terrorist attacks!!...

oh wait...no..that would be something DHS would look for if paki soldiers went missing...

Re: # 227 "the tribals are basically petty thieves and brigands who are easily manipulated ......"

Seven years now, and the petty thieves still don't show any sign of getting manipulated

Re: # 232

anil mian,

.... that question was not meant for you, it was meant for for arjun mian and other horrible hindoos who think that a hindoo's poo doesn't smell any more even though he still squats on the railroad tracks ........ you can disregard that question ......

... but here is a more important question for you: why do indian men wear sneakers with dress pants - it bothers the crap out of me !

Re: # 228

Hamidm Sahib:

"...It has emerged that the two soldiers went missing ...
Camp Pendleton is one of the largest marine corps bases in the US...."

Would you not go missing too? Consider the choices...

Kargil Heights and Sandy Beaches of California

No, honestly, Hamidm Sahib. I wish these courageous soldiers a great start in their new life. These soldiers have shown that there is one more way to be part of American Dream,

Flying planes into Manhattan or flying out of Camp Pendelton?

Now how would you define the bravery? Brave soldiers, Bravo.

All of pakistanis talk about re-appointing the sacked judges. They miss the point that of paki legal system and judgements can vary so mush between a mushy appointed judge and a Zardari appointed judge, well there is no legal system in pakistan that is worth restoring. No one, not even a single paki on chowk dares to address the fundamental issue, why should the legal system be so dependant on the personalities of the judges. If mushy can change the entire legal system by changing a few judges, well paki lawyers can curl up and die in shame.

zee -

It is all elimentary. It was only you guys talking about the end of mushy, the PPP and company getting two third mjority etc etc ..and a golden era for pakistan. You all have failed to ask the basic question, has anything changed. Has there been a value shift in the political demands, did any party talk about law and order, jobs and water shortages. It is all personal politics in pakistan, you can see that even on chowk by the educated like you..the name calling, abuse and teh un-mentionalble in urdu and these are done primarily by the pakis.

Irrelevant non-sense that si what the pakis are famous for, while the jihadis are blasting your doors apart.

Re: # 228

hamid m,

no big deal. some paki soldiers went missing in india too during kargil

arjun, laddu, jayp

have you seen these guys ????

Indian soldiers go missing in US

Two Indian soldiers who went to the United States with an Indian army contingent are reported missing.
Officials suspect they could be trying to enter the US illegally.

The Indian troops went to the US earlier this month for joint counter-terrorism exercises at Camp Pendleton in California.

Correspondents say that some Indian sportsmen have gone missing during the foreign tours. But it is rare for the soldiers to go missing.

It has emerged that the two soldiers went missing on 20 March, the last day of the exercises.

Camp Pendleton is one of the largest marine corps bases in the US.

Re: # 224

zeemax,

.... i think a policy of 'negotiations' accompanied with bribery and targeted killings of their leadership will work ...... the tribals are basically petty thieves and brigands who are easily manipulated ......

Re: # 219

tahmed,

... you are a weasel ... always trying to wriggle out of the silly positions that you manage to put yourself in with your self-righteous nonsense .... your rectitude is a pretentious sham ....

... anyway, i stand by my contention that westmoreland was right - life has no meaning for people who value death .... you can see it on the streets of baghdad and basra everyday ......

Re: # 224

Tampax

Mabrook, you have scored 50 hits (posts), highest scorer without a doubt. Chowk staff, please take note of this tremendous effort, it deserves some sort of recognition.

tahmed,

#105 Posted by zeemax re #101 Posted by viqarm,

ANP and Maulana Fazlur-Rehman are not 'Tribals'. The opposing tribals of PPPP are all tribal 'Maliks'. The abolition of FCR means a complete redefining of relations with FATA which will abolish the tribal Maliks as well, so they of-course would be against it.

But you have to understand that the Tribal Malik system, in tandem with the federally appointed Political Agents, fell apart in 2005 when militant rebellion took place establishing a parallel system and killed 200 plus Maliks. The abolition of FCRA will make possible the drawing up of a new agreement with FATA taking into account the new Tribal order.

#221 Posted by tahmed32,

I wrote a post to viqarm earlier on the FCRA abolishment issue. Wait lemme find it. You'll find it useful.

#220 Posted by tahmed32,

I welcome that double edged sword. There must be justice to all - period. That's the first principle. Everything else is secondary.

zeemax: one of the most interesting things in the pm's program is abolishing the FRC. Another example of a double edged sword - while it provides the people of FATA the same basic rights that the Chief Justice stood up for on the one hand, in doing so it also denies unelected "tribal elders" the "right" to rule as unaccountable, unchecked law-givers.

#215 zeemax: let us indeed hope. you realize of course that the rule of law is a double-edged sword - while one edge has cut musharraf and his lawless kidnappings, the other edge cuts those who attack innocent people whether on 3/11 in pakistan or on 9/11 in the US.

#216 hamidm: i brought up the edhi foundation to counter your claim that pakistani society does not respect human life as an excuse, and in pointing a finger at Pakistan you pointed four at yourself and your pretensions about being part of a civilized society that respects life!!

not to make any claims on my charitable contributions which is what your brought up (and where i am not going to get start bragging about on the internet as you are by implication).

Re: # 217

anil mian,

....... i didn't know there were goats on this forum !!!

First half of my last post (#97) got eaten.

Re: # 214

tahmed,

..... you are the one who brought up the edhi foundation and i accepted your position at face value ..... forget about the past and all the good stuff you have done - if you really believe in the cause here is an opportunity to do some more good ... i will match every dollar you give to him starting right now .......

#210 Posted by tahmed32,

Okay I'm glad you welcome it. It's a great step forward. All your concerns will be laid to rest.

But, the support to GWOT of the hamidm2s will have to end NOW! Otherwise all pacts will be broken.

#212 hamidm: you may be sister teresa herself in real life for all i care. that does not change the logic of what you wrote.

and btw, dont automatically assume you have contributed more to charitable causes than i have - we have been involved regularly in this for the past thirty years. and we can discuss that next time i am in michigan.

#209 Posted by hamidm2,

So it's another Hudabiya? Is that what you're saying?

Well ... I don't think so. I think it's the treaty with the Ansars!

Re: # 207

tahmed,

....... okay, put your money where your mouth is - i will match your contributions to the edhi foundation dollar for dollar and you can match every dollar i give to the fool imran khan ...... deal ?

#195 CreateAlpha: see my response to hamidm below. applies to you as well.

zeemax: greetings. on your question concering my illustrious views wrt the deal offered by the new government to those fighting pakistan army. basically, i think this is the kind of step any reasonable government would take.

However, note its implications: it means they will stop fighting pakistani forces and start respecting the Pakistani laws and constitution - which of course means that they stop harboring those who would be considered criminals in the pakistan constitution in their midst. Who knows where this leads to - but one thing is for sure. This deal carries the dignity of the Pakistani people behind it - it is a different deal than one musharraf was claiming to make (which was basically another example of musharraf being "overclever" to stay in illegal power).

Re: # 208

zeemax,

.... no, 'they' are willing to 'negotiate' because they want to buy time, gather strength, mislead ....... it is the old hudaibiya formula advocated by dr israr - the ultimate aim is the death and destruction of all 'infidels' ...... as you yourself have admitted, for the children of the moon god the end justifies the means ........

#205 Posted by hamidm2,

we both support 'negotiations' with the miscreants if it will reduce the bloodshed and result in the death or capture of the ring leaders .........

Is that why you think they're willing to negotiate?

(P.S. I still want to know how an american white guy can microwave a baby, and that too his own, and that too just for crying too much ...)

hamidm #190 Ok, so it is "society in general" that you are talking about, not the wife of the man who was killed.

And basically what you are saying is that there are two types of societies, ones which care for human life and ones which do not.

Guess which society you belong to? And this despite your having spent years in the society you claim represent respect for life!! And this despite your pretensions to be a "modern man" who can look down from his lofty perch in the US at the "unwashed" in developing countries.

and your view of bleeding men being left to die on Pakistani streets is as much a chimera as the pink elephants you sometimes see. Pakistanis are second to none in the world when it comes to respect for human life - the Edhi foundation alone is a shining example of volunteer service in Pakistan.

Re: # 203

urstruly,

... where are you ?

Re: # 200

zeemax,

.... i think i can speak for tahmed - we are two peas in a pod (he just happens to be the old and wrinkled one) ........ yes, we both support 'negotiations' with the miscreants if it will reduce the bloodshed and result in the death or capture of the ring leaders .........

.... see, we are reasonable people

Note this please, a classic case taught to criminology students around the globe


Rape Victim's Cries Unheeded
AP
Published: September 25, 1988

LEAD: Several people watched as a 36-year-old woman was raped under a commuter train platform at the rush hour, but nobody moved to help her, the police said Friday.

Several people watched as a 36-year-old woman was raped under a commuter train platform at the rush hour, but nobody moved to help her, the police said Friday.

A suspect, identified by the police as Steven Shelton, 30 years old, of Chicago, was arrested shortly after the incident, which occurred early Thursday evening, the police said. He was charged with aggravated criminal sexual assault.

The victim's cries for help were unheeded, said Daisy Martin, a detective with the Police Department.

''Several people were looking and she asked them for help, and no one would help,'' Detective Martin said.

The woman was taken to Northwestern Memorial Hospital, where she was treated for minor cuts on the face and a swollen lip, the detective said.

Re: # 198

Musharraf's "treaties" with combatant pakistani citizens are just like those US treaties with Red Indians used to be. US used to sign treaties to buy time so that more enforcements would come and after that they would resume slaughter. Hundereds and hundereds of treaties were signed and every when of them trampled upon by US. No wonder musharaf is the favorite haramzada of these same americans.

g'night

hamid writes : "....... that, my friend is the difference ...... "

Actually more people gather around, stop on the road to help in Pakistan than in the US. Everytime there is an accident on the road people gather around to "beat up" the person causing it and to help the victim, this my sewer sage friend is the hallmark of traditional/gameinschaft societies and not the blase' attitude, that careless, uncaring and numb attitude of the so called modern/gesellschaft societies, the famous case of the mainstreet NYC rape with people not helping as the woman cries out and the video game like slaughter than US soldiers have partaken in Iraq are clear examples. You on the other hand selectively choose examples which you have no clue about. The people of Pakistan are highly charitable and help their fellow man moreso than the pittling US aid that lines the pockets of thier elite and fulfils America's dirty work....now go F yourself

#198 Posted by hamidm2,

I know your POV. That post was addressed to tahmed32. Let him answer it or say he doesn't want to!

#197 Posted by hamidm2,

....... that, my friend is the difference ......

Yeah we know.

But strangely enough, yours is the only goddamn people in the entire goddamn world who microwave babies?

Re: # 194

zeemax,

.... let's not forget that musharraf has 'negotiated' with the taliban and signed 'treaties' with them before ..... what did that get him? ..... this morning on tim russert, general hayden was talking about musharraf's mistake and i am sure he has had the same conversation with kiyani and gilani lately ........

..... having said that, reagrdles of what hayden tells him, gilani should 'negotiate' with the miscreants with the objective of driving a wedge between them, buying off those that can be bought, identifying those that can't, and then going after them with all guns blazing ....... it has to a carrot and stick policy, but the stick has to be huge ...

... negotiations and treaties don't mean anything to these people - they also made a treaty with the people of mecca and look what happened to those poor bast&ds ........

Re: # 190

tahmed,

... bewakoof! ....why do i have to explain everything to you ? .... of course the life of the deceased - washed or unwashed - is important to the miserable husband or father or mother ...... it is society in general i am talking about .....

........ do you remember the whales who were stranded in a bay someplace on the west coast a couple of years ago ? ..... the whole dang country was mesmerized by it - it was on the evening news every day, the coast guard spent a couple of million, the state thhrew in another couple of million, volunteers were flying in from all over the country to help with the rescue and little girls were crying their hearts out on television ............. now compare that to the television image of the guy who was injured in the bombing that killed benazir: he was sitting in the middle of the road, his leg shattered, blood and tears streaming down his face as he reached out his hand to people walking for help - and nobody - not one good muslim - stopped ! ....... that, my friend is the difference ......

I have posted a new ilog, your contribution in the form of e-mail or other addresses of relevant figures would be appreciated...

----end of public service message---------

Tahmed, life is not valued the same. 10,000 islamists are worth 200 hinjews and 10 jews and 1 american. It should be that way. You are american...thank ur lucky stars...or you would be somewhere between 200 and 10,000.

So, tahmed32, what do you think of Taliban's acceptance of Gilani's offer to negotiate and halting 'Pakistan Operations'?

I'm interested to know your view.

ana bittya rani: you got me there. i really should be working when i am on the keyboard. but a little chowk break once in a while doesnt cause cancer, like cigarette breaks do.

tahmed uncle: i think you just like arguing with hamid. from what i've read here, h. is more cynical than superficial. everyone takes what he says so seriously that when it actually comes time for him to say something serious, i'd like to see what happens.

peonofthewest: you have not been cursed for a full day by masadi sahib? you must take his temperature and have him checked out for any dangerous signs of sanity.

#184 hamidm: dont hide behind dead people, and just answer my question: is the life of a man who was killed cheap to his wife? to his sons? to his daughters? to his parents?

Here is more news for you - one thousand WWII veterans in the US die every day nowadays (due to old age). By your reasoning, their life is cheap as well. A thousands of men your age die every day all around the world every day. By your reasoning, their life is cheap as well.

You need to seriously re-examine your views.

hamid:

there is a cure for your addiction. you just don't have the will for it. :)

and leave masadi alone. aap ka kya bigarta hai? can't you just ignore him? i can ignore zeemax, so no need to wish me luck on that!

Re: # 187

and i am going to keep westy my husband company too saab.

salam

Peon of the East

Re: # 186

its ok saab. masadi saab is doing fine saab. he hasn't even cursed me in the last coupleof days saab!

Re: # 180

chowk staff,

.... you guys are sleeping on the job again ! ......... please make sure masdi doesn't get through

thank you for your cooperation

Re: # 181

ana,

... what is a nice girl like you doing in a place like this ? .... sometimes i feel i am wading in a sewer but i am addicted to the stench and filth and offal .......

...... g' morning and i wish you luck in talking to people who don't want women at their funeral .....

Re: # 179

tahmed,

.... you are dense! .... i didn't say it, westmoreland did ... so go argue with him if he is still alive ...

.... the fact of the matter is that people in pakistan don't get fazed by a couple of dozen or a couple of hundred dead .... stuff like this is on the front page of jang every day :"Bus falls in ravine 44 dead" or "34 killed in bomb blast in kohat bazaar" ..... people glance at it, turn to page 2 to see who ran off with whose husband or wife and simply say, "please pass the butter" ...... and the unwashed, who can't afford the butter, can't afford the paper either so they don't know and don't care ......

#177 Posted by laddu on March 30, 2008 4:37:44 am

paki jizba-e-jihad isn't matched by their fortitude-e-intestine...

#181 Posted by ana,

Hello St. Joseph's bimbo :)

good morning gentlemen and trolls :)

zeemax writes "All I'm saying is what the same achieved.."

The only thing suicide bombings ever achieved was greater Army interferene in the affairs of the state. Just because the people's anti mullah anti us, anti army sentiment has been channeled into the current parliament does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination that suicide bombings have suceeded- they have succeeded in two things, strengthing Army BS in our affairs and it antithesis in people's sentiments who currently hate that methodology and will not agree to the mullah coopting their real struggle- that for their day to day existence and basic human needs. Please don't misquote the Quran to legitimize the mullah's perversions- you are quoting a verse totally devoid of its context- by striking "terror" into the hearts of the innocent no objective has been achieved. Such methodology plays into the hands of the uber criminals, the US/Pak Army those that are the source of everything that describes the little rats whose praise you are singing, let the people's voices be heart and don't play into the hands of those who are very happy both to distort Islam in this manner and to make the people suffer because of its consequences...

#178 hamidm: you say "life is cheap". cheap to who? to the wife of the man who was killed by terrorists? Or is the value of a life based on whether one wears rags and goes on a bike to work, or whether one wears a business suit and drives a jaguar? You are so damned superficial!!

tahmed,

... may 12, oct 18, dec 21, feb 30 ....... what is the difference ?! ...... muslims are killing muslims every single day of the week - it is in their nature and has been going on since the prophet went on a rampage against his fellow citizens in mecca ...... let's just move on ! .... as general westmoreland said, "life is cheap in that part of the world" .... and it is getting cheaper by the day

Re: # 175

Shiv ji,

There is a great threat from Paki momeens to all of us ....... the Jazba-e-jehad is even more.........the bomb blasts by the jehadis is due anytime.......if even the Paki munafiqoons are going to push the jehadis then we have to do someting about it NOW!!!

hamidm #86 "it seems that you and i are natural allies ..then why do you have to be so disagreeable?"

Sorry hamidm, but that parallel between musharraf's lotas and toilet lotas was crying out to be drawn.

More seriously: we are "allies" to the extent that we agree that terrorists are vermin. We differ though in our level of respect for the rights of ordinary Pakistanis. How is Musharraf and his lotas and the killers of May 12 any different from some arab renegade trying to take over a chunk of Pakistan or his lotas in lal masjid or the killers of October 18? The innocent Pakistanis killed on October 18 are just as dead as those killed on May 12.

LADDU! WAS I NOT CLEAR ENOUGH!!

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WTF

When I left four hours ago tampax was still here, and he/she or both is still here....kithna falthoo time hai yaar or is it that he is paid to be the whore of chowk...whatever the case, he deserves a raise...

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#145 Posted by akcheema,

ASah ... missed this:

What does "ana-al-huque" mean to you? I am not talking about the literal meaning here. And btw, how do YOU reconcile with YOUR Islam.

Hey ... don't worry whether it reconciles with mine or not. First tell me ... does "ana-al-huque" reconcile with your Islam? If it does as you sound, how? I thought you're a murtid ... err ... atheistic-Muslim (huh?).

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Re: # 143 Zeemax you are right. Galib was very good poet compared to little communist type article writes.
Galib himself said " people would have considered him "Wali" saint if he was not addicted to alcohol.
He was proud of his works. so he wrote aptly.
" hoga koi shayer jo Galib ko na jane
Shayer to bhi achha fir be BADNAM bahut hay"
Only he felt Mir taki mir was up to his level. So he wrote ..... agale jamane Mir bhi tha.

Do all pakistanis who are nice back home when go to usa start indulging in alcohol, pork and ganja. I always wonder as when these expaks come brag lot about excessive drinking and sex related indulgence especially with whites women etc. How about relationships with dark skinned people there by expaks or they just like back home prefer fair skined people. I have admiration for foreign going people and making their big way with houses , cars and all wealth there.
Any way I do not support bombers as they make damage more at home and not in Jand K. This is our problem for long time , we are sharsh like tiger with locals and lamb with foreigners due to our fascination with all foren things. Soon new PM will learn lesson without big , overwhelming number of army strength nothing can be done in kashmir you can negotiate and Indians and north koreans have perfected art of negotiate to meet after six months to negotiate again. What is really needed is raising 3 million men army on eastern border , overwhelm 1 million indian army and defeat and then negotiate means ask them to sign of Jand K and peace will come for all time. Now problem is money they do not want to spend money but just on buying mercides, but one tank is better for defence. If no real effoerts are made now we can start writing requium for loss of Jand K. A fairness J be returned and be generous with defeated enemy and gather good wills. Any way good evening to all. I just wonder if JAYP, Laddu or arjun are IIT college graduate or just little college held in little class rooms. I do not think they do not have real good english or thought process . Any way why IIT man or woman will waste time here when they can make heaps of money doing something better, same stands for lahore management Sc dept.
good luck all.

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#160 Posted by akcheema,

Hehe ... your answer in my #154.

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Re: # 159 Zee

I am a doctor and people do get sick any day of the week; without the touch of "prophetic medicine", one can only do their best!

Re: # 150; Hamidm sahib

sorry can't stay for long. Zee is still here and going strong; may be he can throw some light for you!

btw; Here is another interpretation of the same Hadees by someone else, a muslim scholar called Abdul Hafeez (I don't know who he is but that is besides the point):

[Further from brother Abdul Hafiz; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

The Prophet prescribing Camel Urine as medicine:

First of all, let us clarify the reason and story behind the prescription. Some people had become very ill at the time of the prophet, and were suffering from an unknown illness. Their bellies had swollen and they were not in a fit state. Hence, the prophet said to them, that they would find a cure in the milk and urine of a camel and so he sent them out to an area where camels were grazing. These men went to this area and drank the milk and urine. Sure enough, just like the Prophet said, they were cured and became fit and healthy.

However, at the same time, evil thoughts entered their minds and they decided they wanted the camels for themselves. They therefore killed the owner, and made off with the camels. When news of the murder reached the prophet, he sent an envoy to capture the men, and when they were captured and brought before the prophet, capital punishment was meted out to them.

Having read this story, what do we conclude from it? The answering islam team would have us believe that this Hadith means that drinking camel urine is permissible in Islam. This is INCORRECT. The real meaning of this Hadith is that if a person needs to consume an impure and impermissible substance as a cure for an illness, and no other reasonable alternative is available, then it is permissible. In all other circumstances, camel urine is prohibited.

Wassalaam]

May be Zeemax can also explain why HIS interpretation is different and why one should believe HIS version more that Joe Bloggs?

Happy drinking Zee....I told you Barossa Valley Shiraz was much better but you wouldn't listen!!

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Re: # 150

".. i have been a muslim all my life a...."

what a joke!!!

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#142 Posted by akcheema,

Thank you sir, for now we'll say no more on the subject.

Of-course. What more do you have to say? You quoted a Hadees and I told you word by word what it means. You don't know anything re Muhammad or the Suhaba. These were amazing people. They had ways to do things which people still look forward to emulate. Things like this Hadees are why Islam cannot be defeated. There are practical examples for every situation....as to how these should be handled.

Muhammad asked the (suspected spies) to wander off with the camels and drink their piss using that as a ruse to give them an opportunity to reveal themselves (of-course they never actually drank any camel piss ... they just were lured for the camels) tested them, and when it was proven who they were when they killed the shepherd and stole the camels - gave them an exemplary punishment which is still remembered and followed.

If anyone (including you) is so stupid to read the camel piss as medicine story and believe that's what Muhammad meant ... hehe, they should at-least ask when and where was camel piss used as medicine in Arabia.

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cheema sahib,

......... i have been a muslim all my life and i didn't know that i was supposed to drink camel urine ..... how disgusting!...... the reason i didn'd revert to grandpa gopinath's religion is because i was afraid they would shave my head and make me drink cow urine! .... i also understand that the christians drink human blood with their cookies at church every sunday - is that true? .... why are all religions so obsessed with body fluids ? ........ it makes me sick !

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Re: # 141

laddu,

.... i don't know how to tell you this, but the isi is simply doing its duty by trying to help the people of kashmir in their struggle for liberation ...... as long as they don't interfere in pakistan's internal politics and make sure that the jihadis they push over the border don't make it back alive, they are doing okay ..... this way we get to kill two birds (or one jihadi and one hindoo) with one stone .... actully, in islamic mythology, since a mohammedan is equal to ten kafirs, we will be killing eleven crows with one stone !

... sorry, but that is just the way the papad crumbles

p.s. one of these days zeemax will also sign up for duty with the moon god's army from hell and cheema sahib will not have to fight him on this forum ..........

he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.


So mo killed them for killing the camel because a dead camel means no more camel urine...

peeweemax..now i know why cabs driven by pakis stink..it's the drivers drinking pbuh cola...

There was an egyptian guy in a trade fair who was selling bottled drink of camel's milk mixed with the URINE!!

And he was rightly quoting the hadith in its marketing drive!!!

Re: # 143 Zeemax

you are a 42 carat idiot.

What does "ana-al-huque" mean to you? I am not talking about the literal meaning here.

And btw, how do YOU reconcile with YOUR Islam. Or is it the same 'ends justifying the means' business.

Any way, I have work to do which clearly you don't have to!

Re: # 140

"So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy."

The Mafiaso prescribed camel's milk and urine so that they become healthy and not bacause they were given some "punishment".

And who doles out a "punishment" of milk and urine!!

It is amazing how far the Islamists go to contort their own Prophet's sayings. This is complete Kufr and they must be beheaded for distorting the Prophet's words!!

#136 Posted by akcheema,

Faiz Ahmed Faiz who was a communist and an atheist.

Haha ... how can I stop making fun of you when youre so funny? You're like the bozo in a circus ... hehe. I remember a film with Gary Busey in it where he played a circus bozo ... I loved that film.

Listen ... Faiz may have been a communist ... but anyone who borrows from Husain Mansoor bin Al-Hallaj re "Uthe ga Ana-al-Haq ka naara ... jo mein bhi hoon aur tum bhi ho" was no atheist!!!

Now don't bring up Ghalib as an atheist ... he was a lot deeper than even Faiz! Take my advice. Stick to Aziz Mian Qawal and Jack & Jill!

Re: # 140; Zeemax

Thank you sir, for now we'll say no more on the subject. (as I said that isn't the only reference)

Now getting back to the Kaneez issue. Here is my "offer" as it originally appears in the interact:

[Re: # 74 Zeemax (..contd..)

P.S.: I noticed the reference to "kaneezes" earlier; if THAT is what you are after, please allow me to invite you to Aussie. It is BIG here!

As it happens, we have no dearth of inadequates of the male species here either!

Khuda Hafiz for now.. ]

Does that mean you are happy to be referred to as "inadequate?".

The Jazba-e-Jehad of the Paki Islamist mullahs is on rise- Oye Kafir quam be on look out for their terror inspired by their Mafiaso Prophet !!!

NEW DELHI: The presence of terror camps in Pakistan continues to haunt the security establishment in India, which still feels that ISI-sponsored outfits like JeM, LeT and Al-Badr are responsible for carrying out terrorist attacks in different parts of the country.

"Terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan and PoK remains largely intact and continues to be used by Pak-based and Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI)-sponsored outfits like Jaish-e-Mohammed, Lashkar-e-Toiba and Al-Badr for carrying out acts of terror in different parts of the country," the Union Home Ministry said.

Noting that there was no change in the attitude of the ISI in training terror groups like the LeT and JeM, National Security Advisor M K Narayanan recently said one of the greatest dangers India faced was terror camps being run on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border by the Al-Qaida and the Taliban.

He said Pakistan continued to acquire missiles and other weapons and its military strategy remains India-centric.

According to the latest Status Paper on Internal Security brought out by the MHA, these outfits are "well organised, interlinked, and have the latest hardware and communication equipment".

The "current strategy" of terrorist groups is to recruit and train local modules and activate them when required, maintain flow of finances to sustain terror network and supply hardware through land and sea routes.

Their strategy is also to target vital installations, economic infrastructure, VIPs and political leaders, attack soft targets like market places, mass transit system, places of worship and congregations, and also provoke communal tension to create a wedge between communities.

#134 Posted by akcheema,

Hmmm ... so:

["The climate of Medina did not suit some people, (The climate of Medina did not 'suit' whom'? Citizens of Medina or some alien spies?)

... so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). (Or was it really a minor punishment for them to repent?).

So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy.

Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. (Sure ... they did ... they loved camel urine and wanted more of it!)

When the news reached the Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.(That was the final punishment because the light one didn't suffice)]

Got it now? Or do you still need any Tafseer from me?

Just ask, since I'm honoured you have offered me aussie kaneezes. They're good and obedient as I've heard.

#90 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 29, 2008 7:37:29 pm


Any comments ? Thanks , no response expected , but mute silence


IF wishes were horses, zeemax would ride...

#98 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 29, 2008 8:27:30 pm


Inside story is American govt wooed Mr. Aziz ( Expm of P.Stan) to take over bank and help but he was just tired after having experience of ungrateful politicians - they did not offered him election ticket)


inside story? inside your head perhaps?

peeweemax..a little camel cola?

Zeemax;

Here is how I see it;

I present a perfectly legimitate agenda for discussion in the light of the article; you made fun of it

I presented you with something, perhaps too heated? to talk about; you in your NWFP wisdom made fun of it

I replied to your assertions; you made fun of it

I offered truce; you rejected and made fun of it

You tried to have a leg up on the hindoos, I presented you with evidence from a Book I didn't write but an eminent Muslim Scholar did; it is well-respected and a lot of our Jurisprudence comes from it;

"Ai khaak nasheeno uthh baitho wo waqt qareeb aa pohncha hai...Jab takht giraye jaeyn ge aur taaj ucchale jaey ge....."

Isn't that what you and your mate are singing along to on un-plugged? besides the 'otherone'.

Just for the record, the above sheyr is by Faiz Ahmed Faiz who was a communist and an atheist. Don't you feel just a little bit shy of using it for YOUR gruesome purpose?

Perhaps the end justifies the means eh?

Re: # 133; Zeemax

I include the link here so I don't have to narrate individual Hadees after Hadees to you. It is a translation of Sahi Bukhari by Muhsin Khan.

Chapter of "Medicine" is most fascinating!

You ARE RIGHT! How could I have been SO ignorant; its most fascinating. I am not sure why we HAVE modern medicine anymore in our part of the world when there are so many cheaper alternatives!

Here is the link:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/071.sbt.h tml

Re: # 133 Zeemax

[Volume 7, Book 71, Number 590:
Narrated Anas:

The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.]

It appears perfectly clear to be from the above reference that the punishment was NOT for drinking urine, as that is exactly what the Prophet seems to be suggesting; punishment was for KILLING THE SHEPHERD AND DRIVING AWAY THE CAMELS.

Zeemax, a word of advice. DON'T DISH OUT WHAT YOU CAN'T HANDLE YOURSELF!!!

#131 Posted by akcheema,

and Muslims(Camel)!... btw it is from Sahih Bokhari

Haha ... shows your ignorance.

Now listen, and listen carefully. According to the same Hadees, what happened to the 'same' people who were advised to go and drink camel urine as a remedy? And what remedy was finally administered to them?

You're too funny! I thought only hind000s who quote this were dumb enough to know what it actually entails.

akcheema,

Whether it is jacobs creek, grange hermitage or queen adelaide what difference does it make to a camel urine drinking jihadi in a suit.

Re: # 130 Zeemax

Barossa valley is a valley..... Shiraz is Shiraz.....grapes from Persia (Shiraz region); what is so complicated?

As for piss-drinking; there seems to be some fascination with it on this site! Hindoos(Cow) and Muslims(Camel)!

btw it is from Sahih Bokhari; multiple Ahadith not just one. (you'd probably reject it as doesn't suit your current argument!)

If you DO insist on upholding the Sunnah, we DO have a lot of Camels here too; actually you might even bump into some Camel-driver ancestor in the outback (being from NWFP and all!!) Even the train service through Central Australia is called "the Ghan", after the Afghan Camel-drivers!

#129 Posted by akcheema,

Truce?

Thanks but no thanks. I can't have a truce with murtids.

how about some Barossa Valley Shiraz?

What's that? Some aussie kangaroo piss? Again thanks but no thanks.

Re: # 126 Zeemax

Each their own as they say!
Unfotunately you sound just like my brother!!!!
Truce?

btw; how about some Barossa Valley Shiraz?

Haha ... madrassis are clutching at straws.

Hey hind000s ... have a refreshing drink of cow urine. I think it works like glucose for hind000s!

Wait for Nawaz, he will bring the govt down as soon as mushy goes.

from dawn of today

From Kashmir to Afghanistan to domestic issues central to the life of Pakistanis, we are yet to hear a clear policy statement from Nawaz Sharif, while Asif Zardari has already drawn flak over a Kashmir-related statement and Asfandyar Wali has shown just how partial he is to negotiations and use of a political strategy in the quest for a solution to the so-called problem of terrorism.

Despite these signs of maturity, Nawaz Sharif continues to be fallaciously viewed in circles pretending to be knowledgeable as somewhat of a lesser politician in comparison to some of his counterparts in other par-ties as well as his brother Shahbaz.

... but yes ... I guess I missed your point re my insisting on Allah Hafiz instead of Khuda Hafiz. This issue was discussed at length in a most enlightening discussion a while ago (before your entry) with many very valuable contributions by many illustrious interactors. The crux is that, according to Islam, the Islamic God is Allah - not Khuda. And, according to Islam, Allah is unique (Surah e Ikhlas), and cannot be likened to anything, nor even translated. So, 'Allah' Hafiz it is.

Hope that helped.

(P.S. I'm being nice to you because of your promise of aussie kaneezes).

Allah Hafiz.

#124 Posted by akcheema,

Boy, there will always be dissent. No problem. This is why people like Abu Bakr always exist to sort them out. As for Shias, they are staunch Muslims - and they have a genuine view ... which is much appreciated theologically, if not necessarily politically, in the entire Muslim Ummah!

Re "if He is much of a God, I am sure He can understand both Persian and Arabic equally well!" ...

Boy ... He is 'God' ... He doesn't have to do ANYTHING which YOU want him to DO .... sheesh .... you should pay some attention to Kaal's posts! He has more patience than I do!

Re: # 121 Zeemax

thought as much.
IT NEVER EXISTED; IT WAS NEVER UNANIMOUS otherwise we wouldn't have the rebellion against Abu Bakar for payment of Zakat etc and above all we wouldn't have the SHIAS!

I say Khuda Hafiz again.

You can appease your arab masters I don't mind; as far as God himself is concerned, if He is much of a God, I am sure He can understand both Persian and Arabic equally well! (or what is the arabic equivalent of 'Hafiz'? by the way; as far I know, your arab masters say "Ma'assalam"!

BTW ... the PTs (Pakistan Taliban) have announced to end all hostilities in Pakistan unilaterally in response to Gilani's call to lay down arms & negotiate. Is that everyone (except HP/ferozk besides the murtids) wanted or not?

#120 Posted by ijaz_gul,

Repealing of FCR...There is no alternate in place and what may follow is anarchy

And what, Sir, do you believe, is anything in place there now if not anarchy?

#115 Posted by akcheema,

Ans: such socio-economic idealism NEVER existed in Islamic history; quote ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE

Haha ... Lemme tell you something. In early 18th century one of the geniuses in Europe had predicted that by another 100 years the streets of London, Stockholm etc would be so full of horse manure that it will be impossible for pedestrians to walk. Of-course he didn't know an internal combustion engine will appear. So no argument with him ... same as you.

Point is, you ignoramus, that if something never existed before (though it actually did for some fifty years), it doesn't mean it can never exist!

Rest of your post is all sophomoric crap ... not worthy of comment.

Allah Hafiz (not Khuda hafiz) yet again! hehe

There are some serious errors of judgements being made based on political impulsions.
1. Repealing of FCR, an issue that can be dealt only by the president (whosoever). There is no alternate in place and what may follow is anarchy a la tribalism.
2. Not moving fast enough on Mush. Ramday's incident indicates the resistance within.
3. MQM and JUI are pro intertia and will reflect negatively.

HP,
Do you imply that those responsible are the Farishtas?

Cheerios

Re: # 33
tahmed,

Most chowk interactors read my posts, simply for the different view point.

Read my posts about the stupidity of Gillani when all other pakistanis are praising him.

Not may will be reading your posts simply because they are against individuals, mostly name calling.

Read my posts, enlarge them, put it on the wall, and you might...might learn something. You need it.

#116 Posted by masadi,

masadi, I'm not talking about support. Who would support suicide bombings? No one of-course.

All I'm saying is what the same achieved, support or no support, and please understand the distinction.

To borrow from Echoboom - "...and strike TeRROR* in their hearts". They struck TeRROR in the hearts of the oppressors and made them submit.

Re: # 25

hamidm,

A little bit of learning from history will be helpful for all the pakistanis, and that needs some one like me.

You have seen bhutto govt, the great exuberence. You have seen it with benazir. You have seen it with Nawaz. You have seen it with mushy, re-read the interacts on chowk when mushy came to power.

Idf all of the above hopes were dashed for teh pakis, there must be something systemic about this. Look whether anything has changed. I do not see anything changed, and no pakistani wants to look for any changes. They are simply hop[ing, the same hope that the jihadis have, 32 houris and heaven.

Take it from me hamidm, the cycle will continue, and teh way gillani is going, the next coup is much nearer than you think.

Zee what are you talking about, the support for suicide bombings are at the lowest they have ever been in Pakistan post 9/11- the current elections also revealed very clearly what I just said, the people of Pakistan have rejected the evil troika. The only problem is that the military/US methodology wants to expand the problem and they do it by expanding their base in certain areas even though the people as a whole are dead against the militants...

Re: # 104 Zeemax

1 - The Muslims must and will have a parallel socio-politico-economic system which gives them full sovereignty over their lands and their way of life. This is full implementation of Islamic Law. It doesn't mean isolation. It only means parity, and 'peaceful co-existance' since both systems are fundamentally incompatible and can exist side by side, but cannot be merged together.

Ans: such socio-economic idealism NEVER existed in Islamic history; quote ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE please where such was implemented without opposition within the Ummah through history

That is the same logic Maududi/Syed Qutb etc had; Islam is in danger, survival of civilisation etc etc...I thought it was ALLAH'S CHOSEN GROUP; why should it be SO paranoid about annihilation; especially with all the promises Allah has made to fulfil BEFORE the end of the universe?

2 - It belongs more to my maama than it does yours.

Is that why YOUR brethren, born/bred Brits/Americans or something else blow up THEIR OWN countries' property/life? It is all because of ancestoral links matey; in todays world, it is impossible to have this parallelism you speak of

Why are you so delighted at the 'win' of democrasy in Pakiland? I have not come across a single example from Islamic History where such a system was found compatible with Islam's politics. On what grounds do you say it is good? In Islamic history, the 'Caliph' is the leader of the faithful as well as the leader of the army. Having a General right up there would be far more compatible with Islamism than democracy!

3 - You choose to live off the fat of the land of another as a beggar. I don't

I don't beg; I work and get paid for what I do; no different to doing the same anywhere else, including Pakistan.

This is in sharp contrast to a big majority of your "Jihadis" living in the west on welfare and then trying to undermine it from within!


4 - This is a silly question. It is the same as asking what the Chinese invented in the last 500 years

I thought so; nothing to talk about eh? Wouldn't have anything in the future either! Who's the begger now ...BOY

Beggar of technology....Beggar of Knowledge.....Beggar of resources......Beggar of....................

THAT IS THE PROBLEM YOU FOOL!

btw; next time you come by any western country, take back all the mad rubbish you guys have left behind so we can have TRUELY PARALLEL systems side by side! But you wouldn't do that would you; they are some of main financers of this nonsense, alongwith providing you with idiots for blowing things up now and again.



Khuda Hafiz

Muhatir Muhammad is active again. He has called for a boycott of all Dutch products, in protest over that film, but I don't agree!

As the great Echoboom has written on his thread on 'Chowk Connect' titled ... "jubb GAAND lagi phatnay...Khairaat lagi batnaiy":

"...and strike TeRROR* in their hearts, hunt them down whwhere ever you find them, and slay them..."

*GOOD WORD..adopt it, be proud of it..if the Farangi babboons acknowledge this as well it must have done , at least, some good .

The Dutch film-maker has, unwittingly, has done a great job of bringing the message home to millions of secularoons , munafiquoons & murtadoons of the world.

#109 Posted by masadi,

masadi Mian, have you heard a 'single' bad word about the militants? All you would have heard is that the US and musharraf have made Pakistan into a war zone, no one has blamed the militants. They have all taken to be the effect, not the cause of all this trouble.

This very widespread feeling amongst the Pakistani nation has made not only the Pakistani militray to back off (no less than 1167 militarymen overall have already been withdrawn from civilian posts) but also the US ... forcing them to state that the fate of musharraf is upto the Pakistani Parliament, and the negotiations with FATA are possible.

Who do you think made that possible? Certainly not the Lawyers. They could at max have had the Judiciary released from detention (not re-instated) let alone forced electoral defeat of musharraf's allies and an end of military rule forever. The bombers made that possible.

Loss of innocent life is always regrettable. I have never denied that. Please do not misunderstand me.

New power units to be set up



By Our Staff Reporter


ISLAMABAD, March 29: The new government intends to produce 2,200 megawatts of electricity by establishing some new units this year in a bid to reduce load-shedding across the country.

The plan was announced by Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani in a speech in the National Assembly on Saturday.

The prime minister said that the aim of the plan was to bring down the duration of unprecedented loadshedding in the country, which was expected to go up to 4000 MW during the summer season.

//////////////

No Gillani saab. At present paki generation is only 60 percent of the installed capacity, De-bottlenecking is the first thing to do to increase generation. Pathetic is the technical know how of teh pakistanis.

Another Gillani blooper

from dawn of today


Implications of repealing FCR



By Ismail Khan


PESHAWAR, March 29: The authors of the prime minister’s speech to the National Assembly on Saturday probably had no understanding of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) and the laws that govern it. Why else would Yusuf Raza Gilani announce the abolition of the Frontier Crimes Regulation without actually knowing what the 1901 British law is going to be replaced with and more importantly: what would be its implications?

Celebration time,
Most pakis are like madani saab, when some dubai sheik says that 100 billion will be invested in pakistan next year, he thinks it is all hunky dori, now he is all gaga about soem tajikistan providing electricity as major achievemnt for pakistan.

The gillani claim of getting rid of teh terrorists, limiting teh cars to 1600 CC, well the chowk pakis are celebrating, completely unaware that these things simply cannot be delivered.

The same is true for zardari talking about solving kashmir, after so many years of supporting the jihadis, there is no way that pakistan can stopp the support for them, and as long as jihadis keep coming no way that india will settle for anything.

Mushy was far better, and he knew the reality, these politicians are simply playing to the elitists with words unaware that they cannot deliver any.

Zee main, I don't know what comes over u sometimes, you make a good point and then ruin it by thowing in that jihadi nonsense. The ONLY way the Jihadis have helped bring this change is by inspiring hatred in the people against their "cause"- the people have spoken against them, and they have understood the mutual shenanigans of the US/Army/Jihadist link and have rejected the evil troika...

For the first time Gillani has been elected unanimously by the paki legislators and the reason is easy to find. The man has no sense of pak reality.

He is going to negotiate with the terorists and ask them to lay down the weapons. That is the pushtoons and the other tribals ....the man is more stupid than he looks.

Then within two weeks all of the military men should quitt civil posts.

Wapda to teh crocket board is run by the military. If they quitt in two weeks is there any one competant to take those posts.

Then the cars...1600 CC cars. Are they armoured..pathetic to become sitting ducks to the jihadis.

What will happen to the mercedes and all. The generals will be driving the mercs while the ministers drive 1600 CC corollas, if I recall toyota CAMrys are 2000 cc.

Gillani is simply another abdul paki of the like one sees on chowk, absolutely no idea about what they talk about and no sense of reality.

Gillani is a true paki and he need to be unanimously elected.

madani saab,

I did not find any good news in wahat you posted. If tajakistan is able to supply electricity which pakis cannot produce despite large hydro and coal reserves, what is good there for pakistan. If pakistan is exporting rice while importing wheat which the pakis eat, it shows stupidity, why cant you all grow wheat and be self sufficiemt. By teh way pakis have lost teh trade name of basamati to india. Then again india does not allow export of rice unless it fetches 1000 dollars a ton, we are interested in only high value exports while pakistan has has now exporting raw cotton with the hosiery industry in pakistan being wiped out by the tamil nadu based companies.

When you find any good news about pakistan please do post it. Here are some clues to good news.

Some one arrested for honour killing.

Some bank rober arrested in karachi.

#103 Posted by ahmedmadani

You need to express loss and regret for supporting bomber type people.....But Kashmir patience has become mistake as military imbalance is bad and widening as govt is not talking of Jand K or increasing strength of security forces. Money will be wasted on "do good" things.

Exactly Sir. You will start supporting the "bomber type people" too when they liberate Kashmir people from the horrible hindoo occupation, just as they have liberated the Pakistan people.

#101 Posted by viqarm,

ANP and Maulana Fazlur-Rehman are not 'Tribals'. The opposing tribals of PPPP are all tribal 'Maliks'. The abolition of FCR means a complete redefining of relations with FATA which will abolish the tribal Maliks as well, so they of-course would be against it.

But you have to understand that the Tribal Malik system, in tandem with the federally appointed Political Agents, fell apart in 2005 when militant rebellion took place establishing a parallel system and killed 200 plus Maliks. The abolition of FCRA will make possible the drawing up of a new agreement with FATA taking into account the new Tribal order.

#99 Posted by akcheema,

My my ... itna ghussa? Ok ok I'll indulge you a bit more Boy!

Now learn to interact clearly in simple bulleted paras as demonstrated below:

1)...What do you have to offer as an alternative to the rest of the world?

There's an alternative for Muslims, not for murtids and westoxicated fools. The latter can do what they want. The Muslims must and will have a parallel socio-politico-economic system which gives them full sovereignty over their lands and their way of life. This is full implementation of Islamic Law. It doesn't mean isolation. It only means parity, and 'peaceful co-existance' since both systems are fundamentally incompatible and can exist side by side, but cannot be merged together.

2) ...Pakistan does not belong to your ‘maama’ that you stake claims over its destiny. We are all equal stakeholders here

It belongs more to my maama than it does yours. You choose to live off the fat of the land of another as a beggar. I don't. If Pakistan goes down, The people of Pakistan go down with it! As for you and your types, you will still happily have aussie handouts and hamidm2's will have the michigan ones ... (hope you have acquired those passports though).

3)...I asked you to name ONLY TEN DEVOUT AND PRACTISING MUSLIM (as defined and accepted by the collective Muslim conscience) SCIENTIST/INVENTORS, born in the last 500 years

This is a silly question. It is the same as asking what the Chinese invented in the last 500 years .... or even the Japanese (except Super Mario I admit) ... even though they're the best at 'using' whatever was invented. Should the Taliban be grateful to the Chinese for having invented gunpowder as long as they're able to use it? Let the tech minions work at inventing stuff ... they're never the top people in even small companies let alone nations ... the visionaries always are - who know which employee to use for what. The civilisational powers will use whatever inventions to their own benefit in the same manner.

4)... YOU my friend will always find someone else MORE DESERVING of the houries

Nah! I just told you I'm very fond of kaneezes, and you have offered the aussie variety. Thanks. I'll take you up on it.

5)... My beliefs...boy....are on record here. The "Jihad-e-Akbar" euphemism was to knock some sense into you....boy...at least that's true based on your picture on your personal page! Cute child;

Firstly, I've already told you that murtids don't advocate Jihad-e-Akbar (whatever that is) or 'Jihad' of any kind - so make up your mind. Secondly, that pic on my profile is not mine ... it is one of my ancestors. Cute? yes. It is.

6)...the noise that comes out of an empty vessel.

Haha ... this reminds me of an FP article titled 'Empty Vessels and all that Jazz ...' I wrote a long time ago. Read it ... Boy!

Happy now?

Allah Hafiz! Come back soon! You're fun to kick around hehe.

Re: # 95 Zeemax you have not lost your intelligent mind even after going to usa and atmosphere/ metal there.
Now they do not good relation ship with india so they make fake posters like jayp and laddu etc and provoke people like ylh like bringing Ganhi jinnah, also same time 4th rate copiers as same stuff writer and suppressing people like masadi as they tell truth as he feels no massaging just as is.
You need to express loss and regret for supporting bomber type people. They are also as bad as "bad news company ltd". You should keep in mind all this revolutionary stuff is not good just bad stuff and people suffer and nothing changes if things change very slowly. So to be patient is virtue. But Kashmir patience has become mistake as military imbalance is bad and widening as govt is not talking of Jand K or increasing strength of security forces. Money will be wasted on "do good" things.

Re: # 95 Zeemax you have not lost your intelligent mind even after going to usa and atmosphere/ metal there.
Now they do not good relation ship with india so they make fake posters like jayp and laddu etc and provoke people like ylh like bringing Ganhi jinnah, also same time 4th rate copiers as same stuff writer and suppressing people like masadi as they tell truth as he feels no massaging just as is.
You need to express loss and regret for supporting bomber type people. They are also as bad as "bad news company ltd". You should keep in mind all this revolutionary stuff is not good just bad stuff and people suffer and nothing changes if things change very slowly. So to be patient is virtue. But Kashmir patience has become mistake as military imbalance is bad and widening as govt is not talking of Jand K or increasing strength of security forces. Money will be wasted on "do good" things.

Re: # 41 Zeemax,

"(1) Frontier Crimes Regulations Act is repealed which the unwashed lowly 'Qabailis' had been demanding for long..."

That is not the impression that I get from reading the press reports. Both ANP as well as the tribal leadership of the PPPP have been critical of the decision. Surprisingly, so has Maulana Diesel. They all seem to prefer retaining the FCR with some changes.

So what's up with this tribals' long time demand? Is this a new game of "yes we want it" and "no we don't"?

Re: # 93 RF 786.... SOONER than later gas pipe line is coming and indians tried to sabotage for long time but Iran got tired and said it will send to china so india came running ask for where to sign,. Banina can not fight but knows like fat cat where milk is flowing jumps. Now it will happen pipe coming form from Iran will work in Pakistan but "terrorist" will sabotage line going to india. What GOP can do ? as terrorist will not allow kashir oppressors to get iran gas. Then slowly indian govt will like compromise as romair suggested. Again superior management victory over baniya accounts. That is in industry managers crush and humilated tech people and demolish them. Good day. Bye. My mental thought disrupted by some commotion here , Bye

Re: # 96 Thanks.

Here is more for Zeemax:
Civilisational clash eh; just because there has been ongoing poverty, disease, illiteracy etc in the Muslim world, does make it a “continuum� in this respect. You are very quick to criticise science when it suits you; go and live in some cave like your other mates; NO YOU NEVER WILL as I’ll explain later! Bring an alternative plan, you know like a clear idea of what you seek, how it is better than what people have; not the ideas of self-proclaimed prophets with altered mentation to 'prove' your points!

What do you have to offer as an alternative to the rest of the world? Talk facts and we’ll all listen. All you have is some empty slogans and promise of a Utopia that never existed anywhere in history, Islamic or otherwise. Failing that, your next solution seems to be “the next world� for which you seem to provide NO evidence but a rhetoric; you have to come up with something better than that my deluded friend!

Pakistan does not belong to your ‘maama’ that you stake claims over its destiny. We are all equal stakeholders here and try as you may, I am not going to let you forget that!

I have asked you many questions, presented you with little challenges etc, you couldn’t even answer basic theological queries. Then you distract me with Ghalib; then all you can say is it wasn’t good enough. Where is the simple task I requested of you? I asked you to name ONLY TEN DEVOUT AND PRACTISING MUSLIM (as defined and accepted by the collective Muslim conscience) SCIENTIST/INVENTORS, born in the last 500 years who have POSITIVELY contributed towards the betterment of mankind as a whole. You couldn’t come up with one (feel free to include Abdus-Salam if you will! For your objective it wouldn’t matter then would it? It would though when it comes to the Constitution of your country!).

Like I said, this “khassi-puna� and “makhanchoo� mentality I have seen before, you are not an isolated example! Unfortunately for you, you have put yourself UP THERE to defend “the faith�; well go and bloody well defend it then! Why do I not see YOU volunteering for a suicide mission, since it brings such ‘peace and tranquility’ to the NWFP/FATA? Because like I said, “Makhanchoos� can only watch from a distance! YOU my friend will always find someone else MORE DESERVING of the houries; you may be anything but NOT THAT STUPID!

Bring Eklavya in now so he can entertain us with long-winded collections of words to take the heat off you, why don’t you?

My beliefs...boy....are on record here. The "Jihad-e-Akbar" euphemism was to knock some sense into you....boy...at least that's true based on your picture on your personal page! Cute child; don't know what went wrong. Why don't you change it with something to represent more your physical rather than mental age!

As to your insnuation of not engaging in debates; wise one. I don't particulary feel like one with you either as I prefer some one with a REAL alternative viewpoint not just the noise that comes out of an empty vessel.

Khuda Hafiz

Re: # 93 Mr .RF the problem is cheap wheat from Pakistan goes to north india and A.Stan. Pakistan govt is subsidizing noth indian and a.stan peoples wheat requirements is real problem. Till prices rise to match indian prices smuggling will go on.

Big investment is going in gas development from foreign countries in B.Stan Sindh and desert coal which practically inexhaustable energy. I do not think there is no sucg huge amount of coal in India.

Tata and management is going to make fool of themselves. It like little man trying to lift 1000 lb Bench press and he get crushed. Main reason not lack of tech power but management expertise. Now jay prashash or Laddu gave for name management. Only two are known. one is Indira of Pepsi company and mr. Pandit ( kashmiri brahmin ? so pakistan connection). Now one should look at pepsi stock and how is doing ? It is not doing probably any thing special its big company and can work on auto pilot. She may be probably good I may agree. But City bank chief was lucky man. As nobody wanted to take position ( who want to become sacrificial bakara for americans ?). The stock is going down like stone and indian chief has not helped. Inside story is American govt wooed Mr. Aziz ( Expm of P.Stan) to take over bank and help but he was just tired after having experience of ungrateful politicians - they did not offered him election ticket). When was big officer of bank bank was doing good. Once he left brain power was left to pakistan capital all went down as mad bull. You need good management. Any way S. Aziz was graceous to not oppose this Indian guy so his appointment went ( PM was busy at that time). Banks misfortune Aziz was busy and fortune for mr. Pandit. Pundit is killing city bank only arabs can save so he went begging to Saudi princes and they are helping, Aziz recommended saudi to give money to bank. So Indian management is is bad and city bank of USA id bleeding and one can not blame arab money managers waiting like vulture to pick up bank peace at time.

Also people who worked at high level at magagement at HT ( HIGH TECH ) tell indians good in maths so good accountant. One pakistani once admitted he will not do any thing till he talks to his hindu dark skinned account. He admitted that man much smart in accountig ( maths) but management he does allow them to have say. Indian industry he has worked and need management from outside and there are consultant. You need vision to chop people and their life mercilesly and thta is what is management is higher and fire. That requires victorious attitude and its born in warm blooded people than cool blooded and conspiring mind like crocodiles.
There is win win situation if both cool mind and hyper active dominating management works together.
Also indian schools are to academic manager training and geared for high Tech companies in world there is more money in low tech and no tech. There You need managers no academic but different type. Like german GM failed in Karachi ( Electric co) but you as person like Altaf Hussain and he can give GM who can mange things fast. But management needs freedom of action and can not go just usual ways. A best manager is one who makes unusual type management style for extraordinary management problems. Some times you need muscule power to "FIX" problems. In complex situation Indian management just have no capacity. Management is on indian forte . Combined tech of india + Management from pakistan good result. Gulf is example. Win Win Situation.
Good afternoon. Good luck.

21.4% (2007)

Iran is #4. Brazil lost the share of output from 3% in 2000 to 2.6% in 2007. When you analyze the macro indicators further, Iran's number can tell even more interesing story. It is not just about oil revenue growth. Saudis too would be there, but they are not.

The battle is not drawn along the religious lines.

Clearly, there are four more jumbos revving up to share the economic sky, the big picture is certain economic. You will need moderates like Hamidm sahibs, Tahmed Sahibs to increase Pakistan's share of global output. It cannot be through binary choice of "you live or I live."

Re: # 83

akcheema

Allow me to add a few immediate remedies for the land of pure:

1-People will be free to say what they think of religion without the curse of religious fascism.

2-Remove Zia-lul Haq from Islamabad and send his dentures to Afghanistan.

3-Export all Hameed Gul's and his type to Soodi Arabia

4-Liberate Mecca and Medina

5-Bring to justice all those involved in the East Pakistan massacre

6-Most importantly, make supporting suicide bombings an offence punishable by imprisonment, confiscation of all assets and in extreme cases export to Gitmo bay.

I have more, but have to rush...duty calls.

#90 Posted by ahmedmadani,

... bad news company ltd.

Great coinage Madani Saheb, but you can count many fake Pakistanis amongst the monkey madrassis on the board of directors of this company as well!

#92 Posted by akcheema,

Sorry but I don't care to indulge in long, wordy debates. To me that's nothing but obfuscation. You're not even clear on what you believe in or don't, so what can I say to you?

Yes about aussie kaneezes, not a bad idea! We can talk about those! But I'm NOT going to debate you re merits of Aziz Miana Qawal Vis a vis Ghalib as you want me to do!

Re: # 90

Dear ahmedmadani

Energy from Tajiki-stan will have to come through Afghani-stan for Paki-stan. Creating a corridor between these two stans will also open doors to the extremi-stan soldiers, now do you really believe that will materialize in the next two years? If the Iranian gas pipeline is an example then u can forget about this power surge.

As for the rice markets in the Gulf, well there are two aspects to this equation. First, Pakistani food exports have been banned for poor quality and charges of smuggling drugs. Then, there is the local or domestic population which is suffering under the burden of rising food prices, can we afford exporting essential food items?

Re: # 91; Zeemax

Is this your "usual" refutation?

YOU HAVE NO IDEA;like I said, "pride without substance".

Stick to the 'Kaneezes' ......boy!

Now the coast is clear for you!

#89 Posted by akcheema,

230/232/233/234 on that board

Yaar I read those posts. Those were as inane as ever. Please stick to Aziz Mian Qawal who's right up your alley, or Jack & Jill went up the hill ... max! Forget Ghalib in general, and the sheyr I reproduced in particular!

arjun , Jayp and Laddu limited bad news company ltd.Todays bad news.

Tajikistan to supply cheap power to Pakistan
LAHORE, March 29: Tajikistan Ambassador Said Saidbaig has said that his country would be able to export cheap electricity to Pakistan and Iran on completion of two huge hydropower stations within two years....


Pakistan gets chance to capture rice markets
RIYADH, March 29: With India and Vietnam, the two major rice exporting countries, opting to restrain their rice exports, Pakistani rice exporters could re-enter the regional markets in a big way, experts here think....

Any comments ? Thanks , no response expected , but mute silence

Re: # 88 yeah yeah.
the interacts i was referring to are 230/232/233/234 on that board (irreverent hero..)

btw; you have NO IDEA about me

cheers

murdity=murtidity.

#83 Posted by akcheema

Bhai mere, the “jihad-e-akbar� of introspection and self-analysis is always the more challenging one!

Haha ... “jihad-e-akbar� of introspection and self-analysis? Have you been in naqshbandi's company? Did he convert you from murdity to sufigiri now?

Boy ... chose a single position you can defend and stick to it! Don't wade in puddles formed by others when you get stuck!

tahmed,

.... it seems that you and i are natural allies who agree that this is our war and that we need to find and kill the terrorists in their caves (and above ground) ....... then why do you have to be so disagreeable ? ....... is it because musharraf is still hanging on ? ....... don't worry, he will leave when kiyani thinks he has become a liabiity and zardari decides that he can take off the training wheels ...... it also depends on instructions zardari receives from boucher, haqqani, rehman malik and salman farooqi (these four make up the 'real' cabinet)..... so don't worry, it will happen sooner than later ...... but what will you do when you don't have mushy to kick around ?

.... unlike zeemax, who is on god's side, you and i are on the right side ........ so lets hold hands and sing :

clowns to the left of me,
jokers to the right, here i am,
stuck in the middle with you........

or, as noor jenhan would say " chal chaleye dunya dey us nokray, jithay banda na banday di zaat hovay" .........

AND ZEEMAX, while you are at it, feel free to look at the reply to your "Ghalib ke Sheyr ka matlib" on that board (I think it was the 'irreverent hero...', 3/4 very short replies right after yours; won't take you long to read.

Thanks again.

Khuda Hafiz; I have to work..

#74 Posted by akcheema,

are you suggesting that the whole world for the last 500 or so years has been "the best".

Muslim civilization has 'never' been vanquished. Defeated in battles yes, not vanquished. Do you know the difference boy?

Do read again what I'm trying to say. The Japanese 'civilization' is defeated and vanquished, so is Hindu - not Muslims (or the Chinese for that matter).

Re: # 81; Zeemax
Zeemax, before you go on to make even more grandiose claims about what is happenning in Pakistan and its ‘significance’ in fulfilling the prophecy of the ‘Nostradamus of Pakiland Mr Hamid Gul (Nishan-e-manzil fame)’, just address the basics first.

This is typical of the “english-medium� type self-proclaimed aristocracy of the Islamic Republic; don’t tell me you don’t belong either to a political family or worse, one with deep connections within the Civil Service. When you live like a common man with no connections, then you’d have the right to speak. Otherwise you are like the rest of us, watching the ‘tamasha’ and every now and again getting a little irate because your horse didn’t win the race. It is all “pride without substance� as I keep telling you.

The problems Pakistan faces are as follows (by no means a comprehensive list):

• Education for the masses; education that enlightens and not just re-affirms archaic tendencies

• Healthcare for the masses; no good just saying “we provide it with a ‘parchi’ for a rupee� at the point of delivery, I mean proper, decent healthcare

• Some control on the rapidly expanding population; when we have the ‘raw material/food’ etc to feed and look after them all, we can afford to keep growing at the current rate; otherwise, no point just asking/expecting Allah to provide it all. He seems tired of this constant demand as well (especially with having to keep up with the constant demand for houries!)

• Stop blaming the rest of the world, especially the west, for your problems; the rest of the world doesn’t owe you or Pakistan a living

• Stop quoting how the Afghans brought down a ‘super-power’; the Afghans were used by the Americans and Pakistanis (Zia, Hamid Gul etc) alike for their own purposes and you know it. If you want Pakistan to ‘defeat’ the remaining ‘power’, go right ahead. Just don’t moan when your country is reduced to rubble in the process (a living example being Afghanistan itself)

• Curb the Jihadism man. In the long run, it won’t pay dividens to your next generation (assuming you have some hope there).

• Think about building an educated, forward looking, enlightened and inclusive society and I will personally follow you til death; stop making grandiose assertions otherwise

I am not saying it will all happen at once; “Rome wasn’t built in a day�. But until we see some steps in that direction, let’s refrain from “baghlain bajaana�. You told someone earlier to be spoiling your ‘serious’ discussion; let’s have that serious discussion.

Bhai mere, the “jihad-e-akbar� of introspection and self-analysis is always the more challenging one! Any fool can make un-realistic claims about anything in life.

Thank you for yor time and Khuda Hafiz.

Others, please feel free to add on to this list........(this offer is not flexible enough to include Indians, with the exception of Majumdar bhai of course!)and have a meaningful discussion...I hope..

#71 Posted by akcheema,

This is so 101 as usual coming from you. We're talking about civilizational conflict here, which may be out of your league .. boy!

to elaborate ... read below as "whoever achieves dominance, is 'right' - and invents his own morality to justify it - which is duly adopted by the vanquished as their very own."

Pakiland is like a drug addict who was forced to go into rehab after 9/11. the drug was jihad...pakiland was a jihad junkie if you will...

the weekly suicide bombings are withdrawal symptoms..

#70 Posted by anil,

All I was saying was that whoever achieves dominance, is 'right'.

With due respect to Dr. Wan Hee Kim, above is life's logic.

urstruly: what is this? maybe you should join hamidm against your common enemy - the Pakistan Awam and their elected representatives!!

Terrorism tops Gillani’s agenda
ISLAMABAD: The war on terror is Pakistan’s war and the elimination of terrorism and extremism will be the new coalition government’s top priority, Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gillani said on Saturday.

He was addressing the National Assembly after securing a unanimous vote of confidence.

“The war on terror has become our war, because it has posed serious threats to our own country,� the prime minister said.

Militants: Gillani said his government was ready to talk to those militants ready to lay down arms. “Some of our people have unfortunately taken the path of violence in the Tribal Areas. We are ready to talk to all the people who are ready to give up arms and negotiate with us for the resolution of their problems,� he said.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20083\30\story_30-3-2008 _pg1_1

Re: # 68 & 69

Ambassador of Pakistan to Washington coming up?


Ras

Re: # 74 Re: Indian interference:

Majumdar bhai is the only exception (and a welcome one at that) I can think of.

Cheers

Re: # 74 Zeemax (..contd..)

P.S.: I noticed the reference to "kaneezes" earlier; if THAT is what you are after, please allow me to invite you to Aussie. It is BIG here!

As it happens, we have no dearth of inadequates of the male species here either!

Khuda Hafiz for now..

Re: # 71 Sorry my post got cut in half:

Just one question please Zeemax. Based on what I said in No:71, are you suggesting that the whole world for the last 500 or so years has been "the best". If so, what makes you think things have SO dramitically changed after a measly election in a small, impoverished, majority illiterate third world country?

I don't want any Indians to butt here please, if you don't mind. Allow us to fight our own battles; your interference makes it harder.

For those who 'cut & paste' lengthy articles from other sources, please stick to the CHOWK guidelines and provide a link; most of us can read here.

I have to go; better things to do...

#69 spreading the rumors about the democratic government, hamidm? tsk..tsk..instead of sitting in the loo with a lota, you really should have attended that character-building class..

The problem with Gillani is that he spent 5 years in the slammer for gropping Sherry Rehman. Thats is the reason he must prove first that he is man enough to take charge of this nation. The khassi fouj has sold their mothers and dignity of this country cheap. Gillani has to show that he is grown up into man to deal with the vicious fouji vultures and hyneas who are still lurking around waiting for their prey to stumble and fall. Gillani must get rid of the dictator and have him court martialed. Its now or never.

Re: # 63; Zeemax
"Look, grow some brains. Will you? I've always said 'May the best side win'. Remember? If Hitler was the best, he would have won and you guys would still be fine. Only the jews would be dead. This time around, if you guys win, Muslims will be dead. If the Muslims win however, you will be dead.
So, may the best man win. That's my motto!"

Don't worry Zee babe; not going to stay for long.
By your above-mentioned 'logic', how do you explin a couple of examples (not to mention thousands of other - but lets stick to a couple here):

1 - Imam Hussan vs Yezid; Hussain had his arse whipped big time and the Ummayyad dynasty continued to flourish for centuries afterwards

2 - Muslims have had their arses whipped for the last few centuries; since the re-conquest of Granada (1492), nothing worthwhile has come out of the Muslim world. Why is your Allah not listening despite billions and billions of prayers by the faithful - surely some of the faithful must be 'riteous'!

Re: # 63

Zeemax sahib:

"...Of-course it was justified. Did the winners decide it wasn't?

...I've always said 'May the best side win'. Remember? If Hitler was the best.... Only the jews would be dead. This time around, if you guys win, Muslims will be dead. If the Muslims win however, you will be dead....So, may the best man win. That's my motto!.."

These are binary statement. Fortunately, for all of us, including you. A while ago, I was on a business visit to Seoul, Korea. This person, whom President Park of Korea had brought over from Columbia to layout Korea's vision for electronic industry was with me. His name is Dr. Wan Hee Kim, do not know if he is still alive. He took me to a buddhist seminary to spend a day. We started talking, soon the point came, and my answer was similar to yours.

I got one of the most profound response, "Anil, this too logical for it to be life, for life is not logical".

When the "best" is uncertain, how can you say may the best man win, please think about it.

Re: # 68

romair,

.... you fool! he is not the usa's "spokesperson", he is a cia agent - a mole ...... he spends his weekends in langley

hussain haqqani is, perhaps, the best bi-lingual speaker in pakistan......there are very few people who can speak in urdu and in english as well as he can.......

......however, he is far too intelligent to be the usa's spokesperson......he flows with the wind.....and much like mqm, always ends up on the right side of power.....he was with nawaz....then he ended up the usa......and now he is with ppp....

however, there are too many people who are, actually, in the assembly, who can take him on, if he becomes a hamidm......ayaz amir being one of them......

and nawaz sharif has hit on a gold mine......he is saying what the public of punjab is saying......end to gwot, freedom of judges and media, investigating into lal masjid, and freedom of a.q. khan......

i think he will not push the a.q. khan issue too much......and will ask for an investigation of lal masjid, but not reconstruction.......

so haqqani is out of his league, at the moment......my guess is he becomes a senator, and gets some portfolio......he would be the choice of foreign affairs.....however, that has gone to shah mehmood qureshi......the later being from multan and gilani's best friend........

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Re: # 63

zeemax,

... of course we will win and the muslims too will survive - the islamists won't ....... just like the germans survived, but not the nazis ....... islam will be tamed - it has not choice ...... your brand of islam will go out of style with the introduction of washing soap, deodrant, toothpaste and indoor plumbling .....

#64 Posted by hamidm2,

Sherry Rehman has no choice but to defend Benazir's statement that "Mujhe Jamia Hafsa Operation par bohat khushi huwa". All she did now was to hedge by saying "Aslaha jama karna bhi ghalat tha aur operation bhi ghalat tha!". If she said anything else, do tell me.

Re Husain Haqqani, you may be right. I guess Zardari needs him for now to protect his flanks. Haqqani was Nawaz's ambassador to Sri Lanka too, remember? He's an old hand.

Now go ahead and answer #62.

zeemax,

... i see that you did not comment on sherry rehman's very clearly stated position on jamia hafsa ??? .... and what do you think about hussain haqqani as the advisor on gwot ?

#62 Posted by hamidm2,

.... are you suggesting that hitler's war was justified too ?

Of-course it was justified. Did the winners decide it wasn't?

Look, grow some brains. Will you? I've always said 'May the best side win'. Remember? If Hitler was the best, he would have won and you guys would still be fine. Only the jews would be dead. This time around, if you guys win, Muslims will be dead. If the Muslims win however, you will be dead.

So, may the best man win. That's my motto!

Re: # 60

zeemax,

.... are you suggesting that hitler's war was justified too ? ....... next think we know, you will be justifying the invasion of mecca and the destruction of the kaaba by the prophet of medina !

Re: # 59

romair,

... you ignorant slut ! ........ they don't need to send me, they have already sent hussain haqqani .......

#56 Posted by HP,

The suicide bombing, the blackmailing and threatening politicians is all criminal. Since when these acts are pious?

So I guess you can't answer my question.

They're just fighting a war for what they believe is right ... just as Bush is blackmailing musharraf etc and fighting his war for what he believes is right. I've never called either of them 'criminals'.

When was fighting a war 'criminal'?

thank God the govt. has announced that it will rely on negotiations and not on military might to handle issues in fata......negorponte and boucher came and went, and seem to have realized that there is nothing they can do.....i believe they will be sending hamidm in the next delegation from usa......perhaps he can change nawaz sharif's mind.....

anyways, now we can go back to the good old days of cd's getting burned and massage parlours being raided.....quite a bit better than restaurants and poeple getting blow up by suicide bombers........

if pakistan stops its logistics support of americans and stops fighting on one flank, then americans are even more screwed in the usa.....i would have to say bush deserves everything that is happening to him....

Re: # 56

hp,

... i agree with you that the army needs to butt out of politics, but i also agree with ferozk that this present crop of politicians is motivated more by their hatred for musharraf than by their love for democracy ....... as for the paki public, you know i have a very low opinion of the unwashed masses - most of them have a hard time telling their elbow from a hole in the ground and can be led astray by any false prophet, swaggering general or sweet talking politician .who offers them two meals a day and a bar of soap ....... the poor suckers are desparate for a messiah! (i wish jesus would hurry up)

One more thing...

FATA should never be integrated in Pakistan, or at least until the time Pakistan has a level of satisfaction with the democratic institutions in Pakistan.

You don't add one more area of ignorance in the mix.
FATA needs enormous amounts of monies to be spent there to open schools and they should be trained in in civil discourse before they are allowed in the mainstream.

Okay I have more time now.
Zee
"
I've never understood what you mean by 'criminals' "

Don't be silly!
The suicide bombing, the blackmailing and threatening politicians is all criminal. Since when these acts are pious?

Hamid,
I don't agree with Feroz on his theory of Mush hatred! That is simply really low estimate and the wrong way to analyze things.
True no politics and politicians survive with out opposition. They have to have some one to malign and unite against but that is just the beginning. If it was not Mush, it would have been someone else. The issue is whether we want Pakistan to move forward or not? The opposition to mush or more like to his position and the way he walked in to power and again the way he ruled the country is worth all the hatred people can muster.

The hatred is actually against the army as the army was the instiktution that brought Mush to power and as we see as the army retreats, he too is retreating!

The hatred should be a part of the political struggle in Pakistan and that should be taken to a level that no other General ever considers to take over Pakistan.
So this hatred is good and should be encouraged and helped!

Re: # 53

zeemax,

.... what do these criminals want ? ..... they want to deprive us of life, liberty and - most importantly - the pursuit of happiness ....... they are sick, psycopathic killers who will stop at nothing to satisfy their moon god's thirst for blood (and power)....... it is really that simple

Re: # 52 Mr. Hamid , resident Mishigan USA Sir , Things are changing i feel
1. Zeemax is supporting terrorist bomber who kill people and jayp and laddu are for Nizam E Mustafa for us.
You ask about sex. Now I do not think sex is important.
I heard following once.
Sex and air are not important at all when it is plentyful but though unimportant lack of both can kill you.
I have not seen YLH wonder he is getting in administration or something like that in new govt ?

Have good night.

#49 Posted by HP,

I've never understood what you mean by 'criminals' .. I mean .... I haven't heard of them robbing any banks, or snatching cars. I thought 'criminals' engage in crime for money. No? Heck, these guys even paid Rs 3 lacs out of their pocket for the van they blew up in FIA HQ in Lahore when they could have just snatched it (just as the 'MQM criminals' do 70 everyday)- since they were going to die anyway.

So, explain! What do these 'criminals' want?

Re: # 50

hp,

... i just talked to two people who were crying for musharraf's blood a couple of months ago ..... today they think he should stick around for a while to keep the peace in the schoolyard ....

...... i know this is just one data point, but the pakistani public (washed and unwased) has fewer principles than a ten dollar whore posing as a twenty dollar call girl !

Re: # 48

zeemax,

.... one of these i am going to put you in the embarassing position of having dinner with my wife and daughters !

.... anyway, you have to thank musharraf for these small blessings .... as ferozk points out, he is the only thing that unites the politicians and he will probably be around for a year or two to 'guide' the democratic process ...... hopefully at that time the politicians will be able to take off the training wheels ..... i think the dropy eyed cj will also fall in line as long as he gets to keep his free government housing - he is a pakistani like the rest of us ......

...... and did you notice that hussain haqqani is the chief advisor to gilani on the war on terror - conventional wisdom says that he is a cia operative ! ..... don't you love it ?!

.... anyway, i think the government is moving in the right direction by repealing the fcr .... fata needs to be fully integrated into pakhtunkhwa ... i also think punjab should be split into three: potohar, punjab and sarakiwhatever ... that is the only way sheikh rashid will become chief minister of potohar while he is waiting to become
cm of united free kashmir ..........

... where is sheikh sahib ?.... i miss him ... sherry rehman is a fine woman and pretty slick, but she cannot communicate with the unwashed masses like sheikh sahib .... she is too english medium ....

sheikh rashid zindabad !

Restoration of judges is not an issue now. What they are waiting for is Mush to leave. He is so dheet that public ridicule is not enough for him.

The way army has ordered to remove army officers from civil position means that things are moving in the right direction.

Zeemax,

"Re WOT, what he means it is our war is not that the GOP will continue the military operation. It means they will negotiate as already clearly told to the US delegation by ever single coalition member."

I don't have much time right now so I am just going to write a few lines here.
The PM is right when he says it is our war and he and all major politicians know who the criminals are and who is behind them. The war with the criminals will have to be fought.

Yes, they should negotiate with the Tribes to isolate these criminals and that is a better plan. However, assuming for a second that there aren't any people out there that have criminal intents would be a major mistake.

So don't get excited. The tribes are Pak citizens and if negotiations can help to remove their support to the criminals, then it is okay. Thinking that these criminals would disappear once the tribes calm down, is just plain ridiculous.

You really need to figure out who is providing support to the criminals and would use them again to derail the new government!

Things are not as easy as your speeches on chowk :)

#47 Posted by hamidm2,

sterliztion is still a viable option ........

Perhaps ... but certainly I wouldn't wish that for the kaneezes and the kaneez breeders of Flint, Michigan.

Re: # 45

zeemax,

..... but did you hear what sherry rehman said about the witches of jamia hafsa ? ....... i think, deep down in her heart, she agrees with me that a fity thousand pounder bomb would have been a better solution .... it is too late for that now, but sterliztion is still a viable option ........

Having said the below, Justice Khalil Ramdey's stuff in the Judge's Colony residence in Islamabad has been thrown out on Dogar's order. (He himself is in Lahore and only a servant was there) Sherry Rehman says this order didn't come from Prime Minister.Developing story.

#42 Posted by Urstruly,

Sir have a heart. The restoration of judges is a done deal and is clear in the Murree Declaration i.e within 30 days from formation of Government which is on Monday. The countdown starts from Monday. There's no Government yet ... only a PM!

Re Jamis Hafsa, there was a demonstration today by the Jamia Hafsa girls outside the Parliament who were interviewed by Asma Shirazi, and they said one of the major coalition partner (meaning PML-N) has won elections in their name and they better put up with a compelte enquiry into the operation and rebuilding of the institution. When asked whether they'ld have any option if they didn't? They said ... we have confidence in them for now! So ... This will be done too ... otherwise guillotines (i.e. public ones which you defined) will indeed appear!

(P.S. Khwaja Saad Rafique has just confirmed the rebuilding of Jamia Hafsa to Hamid Mir on GEO while I was typing).

Re FCR, it was announced it is DONE, not going to do. The PM knew when announcing it they already HAVE a 2/3rd majority in Senate as well which will appear when required.

Re WOT, what he means it is our war is not that the GOP will continue the military operation. It means they will negotiate as already clearly told to the US delegation by ever single coalition member.

Patience my friend. Everything can't be done in one day. Guillotines is always an option ...

New leash, old dog...


US offers Pakistan assistance, warns on militants

Augustine Anthony
Reuters North American News Service

Mar 28, 2008 12:19 EST

ISLAMABAD, March 28 (Reuters) - A senior U.S. official visiting Pakistan held out the prospect of increased assistance for the new government on Friday, while stressing the need to work together to fight al Qaeda and Islamist militancy.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Richard Boucher said there were militants in Pakistani tribal areas planning attacks on Pakistan, Afghanistan, Europe, the United States and elsewhere.

"We want to move together to help Pakistan be safe and have economic opportunities and we want to move together to make Pakistan a success as a democratic society," Boucher said.

He made his comments at a joint news conference with Asif Ali Zardari, the widower of assassinated former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, whose party leads the new coalition government.

"So, as the government lays out its plan, in that regard, we will look for the proper ways to support," he said. A body of opinion was forming in the United States that Pakistan should get more assistance, he said.

Boucher and Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte arrived on Tuesday, a few hours before Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani was sworn in to lead a coalition government that aims to change the way counter-terrorism cooperation with the United States is conducted.

Their visit angered many Pakistanis who saw it as an attempt to influence the new government and shore up President Pervez Musharraf, who came to power as a general after a coup in 1999.

U.S. ally Musharraf has become increasingly isolated since his allies lost a February election and there is speculation that he could be forced to quit within weeks or months.

"OUR WAR TOO"

Until he gave up his dual role as army chief last November, Musharraf had represented a one-stop shop for the United States regarding operations ranging from renditions of al Qaeda suspects to missile strikes by CIA-operated drone aircraft.

A source close to the new government said the U.S. military has problems adjusting to dealing with institutional mechanisms that Pakistan's new leaders want to put in place governing the scope of cooperation.

Pakistan needs as much financial as it can get. A World Bank report released on Thursday said rapid adjustments and reforms were needed to avert an economic crisis as it suffers from the impact of high international oil and food prices.

U.S. assistance to Pakistan since it joined Washington's war on terrorism in 2001 totalled over $10 billion, most of it for the military. Another $750 million has been earmarked for security and social sector projects in the tribal areas.

Boucher said the United States understood and was ready to support a broad-based, multi-faceted programme to counter the problem of terrorism and extremism in Pakistan.

Helping the United States hunt al Qaeda has brought Pakistan's army into conflict with its own people, and tribes living in the semi-autonomous lands along the Afghan border have been alienated by Musharraf's policies.

The militants intensified a campaign of violence to destabilise Musharraf after troops stormed a Islamabad's Red Mosque last July to crush an armed student movement.

Suicide attacks have multiplied, and almost 600 people have been killed in militant related violence so far this year.'

Speaking three months after his wife's murder in a suicide bomb and gun attack, Zardari said it was "Pakistan's war as much as anybody's else's". (Writing by Simon Cameron-Moore; Editing by Jon Boyle)

#40 Posted by bulleya on March 29, 2008 4:15:40 am

hmmm....so NOW should we be wearing t-shirts with paki flags?

so NOW will pakiland be able to sustain economic growth, bleed india and get indian kashmir?

Re: # 41 zeemax

The speech was too little and too late. All these "kar diya jaiga..." are quite pathetic. I think politicians are under the impression that they have taken over a new government as in normal circumstances. The circumstances however are anything but normal and require parliament actions on war footing.

- There was not a single word uttered about deposed judges.

- There is no single word on constitional f/u that happened in the martial law called Emerdency+

- The FCR Act cannot be repealed by PM speech only. It requires 2/3 vote on both houses.

- Musharraf's future was not mentioned at all.

- The word on future of pakistan as client state of US and its role as US' errand boy were too ambiguous. As a matter of fact PM used the same slave-speak when he said that "war on terror is our war" (no its not asshole).

- There was no word on the massacre of school girls in Jamiah Hafsa and bringing the perpetrators of the worst tragedy in pakistan's history to task.

- There was complete failure to recognize that people want the heads of these criminals on platters who have wronged pakistan for 8 years and now trying to get away as punjabi phrase goes "neeway. neeway ho ke nikal jao"

I found the speech disgusting, inappropriate and short of what people has been demanding for the past year and half.

It is shameful that by postponning the session of NA indefinitely at this crucial time in history. These politicians are giving the a/h mushraff time to further entrench himself and other foujis criminals who have butchered pakistani citizens to get away with impunity.


I think these newly "elected" politicians have forgotten that the guillotines are still chasing them. There will be no peace without justice. Politicians still have the choice - stop being frotmen for fouji criminal enterprise or get ready for guillotines. Guillotines are not going away soon.

hamidm2,

Lick your wounds. Right after the Prime Ministerial vote of confidence today: (1) Frontier Crimes Regulations Act is repealed which the unwashed lowly 'Qabailis' had been demanding for long (2) ALL serving armymen,seventy plus of them, WITHDRAWN from Civilian posts, (3) Cabinet restricted to 1600CC cars and economy class air-travel; and (4) Wheat support price raised to help the farmer and as incentive to plant wheat.

This is how fast decisions are made in public interest ... instead of the 'Unity of Command' of your Massah!

Suicide Bomber Zindabad. Without him none of this would be possible!Howzzat?

hmm....gilani gets elected unanimously by the parliament!!

a first in the history of pakistan.......a rare occurence anywhere.....

good choice....

tahmed,

"I think the parties themselves have made it clear that the have formed a coalition in order to deal with the huge problems to the nation caused by Musharraf's attacks on the Supreme Court and the Pakistan Constitution."

...... you are such a nice guy .... do you want to buy some rental property in detroit ?

Re: # 31

tahmed,

.... you ignorant slut! ..... sheikh rashid is a 'urdu medium' yokel - as he is so fond of pointing out himself ..... " mein hoon tau urdu medium, lekin mein in english medium logon kee chalan khoob samahta hun!" ..... he understands people like you very well ......

Re: # 35

also zeemax saab, my heart is broken saab. first it was masadi saab cursing me and now you too saab.

life is hard for us at the bottom saab

i will go for now saab par let me tell you, ghareeb ki baddua nahin laitay!

Re: # 34/35

tahmeed saab, he must be a cretin saab.

Zeemax Saab
i am not a filthy hindooooo saab but a jaddi pushti musla saab Zeemax saab

This peonofthewest should more aptly be termed scionofthepest.

Do we really need more hind000s here? Gimme a break.

Least serious interactors like tahmed32 and some other could do is not to encourage these pests.

PeonoftheWest sahib: what i am saying sir is not what brother ferozk is reading sir. so i must keep saying to him what i am not saying. :-(

hamidm #25 And after all these years, you still read jay thakeray's ramblings from the Asylum for Post-1947 Stress Disorder Sufferers of India? I am shocked at your depravity sir at taking joy in the sufferings of this miserable man.

Re: # 29

tahmeed saab, there is a lot of "not sayings" that you have said, so what are you "saying"?

Salam

Peon of the West

hamidm: on that class on "character building"..i assume you were in the loo with lota rashid at the time and so missed it. :-)

Re: # 28

Masadi saab, language please!

ferozk #15 I am not saying "time will tell". I am saying Pakistanis (and the PPP, ANP, PML) have already demonstrated political maturity by coming together in the broader interest of Pakistan.

Furthermore I not saying anything about the "alliance lasting very long", so again you are letting your preconceived notions come in the way of what is actually being said. Indeed, if you ask me on this subject, I think the parties themselves have made it clear that the have formed a coalition in order to deal with the huge problems to the nation caused by Musharraf's attacks on the Supreme Court and the Pakistan Constitution. There is no intention of this becoming a permanent arrangement by any means

Hamid writes "has anybody told you about sex ?....... try it, it is more fun than spewing the the same old nonsense ........ here is how you do it ......... "

So you finally listened. That was Hamid acting on my advice telling him to "Go F yourself"...... beat that punk!

ferozk,

.... i do agree with you that the vast majority of pakis are obsessed with being muslims - like tahmed, they seem to think that it is some sort of a personal achievement ! .... it is all because of the indoctrination that starts with shouting the azaan into a baby's ear and all that islamiyat that is drummed into their heads in grade school ........... do you know that there was a time when islamiyat was not taught in schools ? .... it is true - we used to have a class called "character building" .... which, i guesss, is the opposite of islam .....

What a sick mind you are jp. Plagued with hatred and no constructive thoughts. You are a waste and shame for this forum.

Re: # 20


masadi,

.... it seems since i was busy last week working to keep the us elite in power, you have been running amok on chowk ...... it is time for you to pack up ... shoo !

...... and that goes for you too jayp - your stupidity is getting tiresome ..... i don't know about the rest of it, but i am willing to declare jihad against you and send you wherever it is that bad hindoos go .... if i understand it correctly, hindoos never really go away, so you will probably come back as head lice or something ...... has anybody told you about sex ?....... try it, it is more fun than spewing the the same old nonsense ........ here is how you do it .........

Terms of surrender

There is no doubt now that the new govt will negotiate and declare that FATA is free of all terrorists and the pak army will withdraw from the area. Thsi will be the same as in Kargill, when the politicians saved the military from its own stupidity. The surrender of 200 pak troops to a few jihadis was the final proof of its own incompetancy and the paki military will be releived that the politicians will take the blame for the military defeat in the hands of the jihadis.

With teh FATA area effectively out of pak govt control, the predators will have a free reign, the pak army will beblamed by teh jihadis for this situation. If and when some of the top jihadis gets killed, it can be expected that their will be attack on the pak army by the jihadis.

This is a loss- loss situation for teh pak govt, the pak military and eventually for the pak people, I mean the non-jihadi pak people, if there is any one like that. It is time for any such people to get out

take it from me madani saab, jihad in teh name of god is the pak army motto.

Hence the suicide attacks in pakistan is only a squable among fellow jihadis, definitely not acts of terrorism.

This notion is accepted by teh pak society by calling the suicide bombers and the victims shaheeds, a ststus conferred on the jihadis.

The conclusion is that the suicide bombers in the paki context are not terrorists, they are fellow jihadis and investigation against them is simply haram. The police officers were involved in blasphemous acts, and you know what the book prescribes for blasphemers.

In conclusion, I am only supporting religious freedom in pakistan. The same way I support hoodood ordinance, blasphemy laws, the honour killings and above all the return of nawaz, whose govt did not condemn the high profile honor killing of samia warwar,which happened when he was the PM.

Madani, saab accept the reality of pakistan, also accept that the highest court in pakistan is the sharia court, and the hoodood ordinance stands because it is constant with the sharia laws, and its corollary, honour killings, and the jihadic killings. There should be no prosecution of the jihadis, full stop.

Re: # 9

Masadi saab,

I am not disagreeing with you. Attack on the nato troops in afghanistan and the indians in kashmir are legitimate jihad, supported all alomng by the paki govts. It is only recently that the paki army started attacking the afghan jihadis and naturally this has angered the jihadis, partly on the suddent about turn at the US insistance and partly based on legitimate religious grounds. Hence they have attacked the pak cities. It is correct that the war on terror is essentially an american war, or in broader terms it is a non-muslim war. War or terror is a non-religious description of a jihadic war, and by definition cannot be against a muslim majority country, and definitely not against pakistan which has been a central supporter of jihad and the fountain spring of jihad, the madrassas. These facts are well iknwon and widely accepted, the london bombers to teh recent chines hijackers are products of paki madrassas.

The nw govts planned policy of leaving teh jihadis alone in teh frontiers with india and afghanistan is legitimate and consistent with islamic republic. In return there will be no attacks in pak cities which is good for the people of pakistan.

The point is will the non-mulsim world be ready to accept this. Will theybring on economic and other obstacles to pakistan which will eventually the detrimental to pakistan though the pakistan will be free of suicide bombers.

The question is letting the jihadis to operate in border areas, will it be in the long term interest of pakistan.

Re: # 20

masadi saab, "Another cheap excuse by a peon of the West ..."

YOU CALLED SAAB!!

Salam

Peon of the West

Feroz writes "re: Masadi

Proof? It is ironic that a person, who calls others names and questions them, without proof, demands proof. :)"

Another cheap excuse by a peon of the West hiding behind the "skirt" of "abuse" in my posts while relying on his prejudice against Islam to come up with his conclusion. Einstein, if you had read my post the "PROOF" countering your claim was there- the Mullah's vision is what you had put in words, and the people of Pakistan have very recently rejected that, and have rejected that all through their history, in polls and otherwise except for the manipulations by the military and the US on the Jihadist front post 9/11, even that manipulation backfired as the current elections revealed....

re: Masadi

Proof? It is ironic that a person, who calls others names and questions them, without proof, demands proof. :)

Since you are all assuming and all knowing, I will accept that you know what the majority of the Pakistanis believe and do not believe in. :)

Ciao

Feroz writes "The vast majority of the nation, Pakistanis, thinks that they are here on this earth to defend Islam and they all support this idea. "

You merely repeated without proof again what I said that you believed in- doesn't prove anything. They do not and never have....

Feroz writes "The vast majority of the nation, Pakistanis, thinks that they are here on this earth to defend Islam and they all support this idea. "

You merely repeated without proof again what I said that you believed in- doesn't prove anything. They do not and never have....

Re: # 15

Feroz saab. Re:(major peon of the West on this site, Feroz)

saab where are you from saab. do you think we are related or from the same village saab.

very nice to make your aquantance saab, i am excited!

salam

Peon of the West

re: Masadi

You said and I quote, "Of course as a major peon of the West on this site, Feroz will push the American line and anything that detracts from it will be rejected by him. He thinks that Pakistanis consider themselves God's armies out to defend Islam-"

The vast majority of the nation, Pakistanis, thinks that they are here on this earth to defend Islam and they all support this idea.

re: majumdar

Let's see, what happens...

re: tahmed32

Sirji, only time will tell and sirji, you also need to keep an open mind and not be blinded by prior assumptions. :)

For the sake of the nation, I hope you are proven correct and till that point, I am not pinning my hopes on this alliance lasting very long. I am simply offering an alternative to your hypothesis :)

Ciao

jayp and laddu are supporting terrorist as they are killing police officers. So all protest against Terror is fake

Re: # 3 Jayp and laddu have started terrosists who kill police officers.

ferozk #6 : "This present political alliance is held together by a mutual hatred of Musharraf "

This is a very inaccurate and misleading explanation and belittles the great freedom struggle of 2007. You ignore the positive inspiration provided to millions of Pakistanis by the Chief Justice with his courageous and principled and which provided the political parties.

And you are barking up the wrong tree when you talk about "hatred" for musharraf - it is the fact that his actions and inactions had led the country to the brink of disaster that was the concern.

If you reflect upon these things with an open mind, rather than based on whatever preconceived notions, I think you will see the point you are missing.

Enough posts for today, g'night...

In #9 read "in trying to covert America's war into Pakistan's war."

"in trying to convert America's war into Pakistan's war.

jayp writes "War of another kind has started with the new govt. Now no one will dare to investigate suicide bombings."

You are confusing the new govt with the old "Musharraf" govt, a government that gave birth to the phenomenon of suicide bombings in Pakistan, whose only legitimation of existence, its nuisance value was fighting a "war on terror" whose public face is the suicide bomber in trying to covert America's war into Pakistan's war. Now when the leadership is vowing, at least in rhetoric, not to turn Pakistan into Killing Fields for the sake of the Americans, who have benefitted by setting this farce in motion here, we have a better chance to eradicate this phenomenon. Of course as a major peon of the West on this site, Feroz will push the American line and anything that detracts from it will be rejected by him. He thinks that Pakistanis consider themselves God's armies out to defend Islam- only a peon of the West or a perverted Islam hater like the many Hindus here carry such beliefs- not supported by any poll or even by the current elections...the people have rejected both the US and the Mullah and the visions and farce promoted by both.....the day of our liberation is nearer today than it was in the past, the colonials and their occupation force is weak, and their game has lost its appeal and the farce that it is has appeared crystal clear, clearer than the pitcute on HDTV for all to see......

The "political alliance" has nothing to do with hatred of Musharraf, only one side in the alliance has hatred of him to that level, the alliance is based on an understanding of the power of the other sides and a recognition of the sentiments of the people who currently hate the military and those who have represented them, when you legitimize a farce, you have to give it a public face, the PPP leadership would be more than willing to work with Musharraf were it not for Nawaz and his clout, and their own party rank and file who hate the military and its previous dictator...Will Nawaz become an establishment/Army peon once Musharraf goes is anybody's guess, I am guessing he would, though as an outsider he might be able to better resist institutional pressures unlike the PM.

Feroze,

(This present political alliance is held together by a mutual hatred of Musharraf and therefore, the question is how long will it last after Musharraf.)

Maybe. But even if it does not last after Mushy goes, it will be no big loss. Pak can go in for mid-term elections or a new alignment after that.

Regards

re: jayp

I agree, with you completely.

This present political alliance is held together by a mutual hatred of Musharraf and therefore, the question is how long will it last after Musharraf.

Ciao

Dear Jazbathi writer,

{The lid has been blown off our economic indicators that boasted of over 7 percent economic growth over the last few years and coffers overflowing with foreign exchange reserves.}

Can you please provide us with some evidence to back up this statement, cause the stock market and rest of the donor agencies would disagree with your assertion or should I say exaggerated proclamation.

Re: # 3

LADDU!

Take a break sir.

Re: # 1

"This policy will have long term consequences and will entrench the jihadis as teh final arbitrators of pak policy. Every paki policy can be vitoed by the jihadis with the threat of suicide attacks."

Mashallah!! What perceptive analyses. I admire you jay ji. Jehadis as the final intercessor and arbitrars!!!

I read your perceptive analyses with great intensity!!!

War of another kind has started with the new govt. Now no one will dare to investigate suicide bombings. The new govt will preside over the final surrender to jihadis.

from dawn of today.

Two IB men trailing Al Qaeda shot dead



By Tahir Siddiqui


KARACHI, March 27: Two officers of the Intelligence Bureau (IB) believed to be involved in anti-Al Qaeda operations were gunned down on Thursday on a busy street near Regal Chowk, in Saddar, witnesses and police said.

They said Inspector Mohammed Ibrahim and Sub-inspector Fazalur Rahman, posted at the IB’s anti-terrorism section (ATS), were shot dead on Frere Road at around 7:20pm by two attackers who came on a motorbike Honda-125.

Witnesses said the assailants fled the scene after the attack during the evening rush hour.

The witnesses said the attackers intercepted the victims, who were also on a 125cc (IDD-1976), in front of a car showroom and shot them at point-blank range.

The officials were shifted to Civil Hospital, but were pronounced dead.

Tahir Naveed, a police officer, told Dawn that it was apparently a case of targeted killing.

Intelligence sources told Dawn that both slain officers had been active in anti-terrorist operation.

They said the two officers were also linked with the investigation and detection of a number of terrorism-related cases, including Allama Hasan Turrabi murder case, Marriot bomb blast case and Nishtar Park bomb blast case.

The PP - PMl alliancve is based on a single agenda, to get rid of mushy. Note that both the party leaders did not attend teh swearing in ceremony.

The only relevant aspect for teh world is that the two parties have surrendered to the jihadis. There will be no attack on the jihadis in the NWFP so that they will not bomb the paki cities.

This policy will have long term consequences and will entrench the jihadis as teh final arbitrators of pak policy. Every paki policy can be vitoed by the jihadis with the threat of suicide attacks.

The new govt will acceletrate the eventual iraquisation of pakistan and in that sense it is good, bettr to reach the destination sooner.