Karamatullah K Ghori April 3, 2008
#37 Posted by zeemax on April 4, 2008 8:48:00 pm
#34 Posted by akcheema
'no different...gave little and got little' was combined for both you and BJK.
'no different...gave little and got little' was combined for both you and BJK.
#36 Posted by bjkumar on April 4, 2008 8:45:05 pm
The following is excerpted from an article in The New Yorker.
BHUTTO'S FATEFUL MOMENT
by Mary Anne Weaver
October 4, 1993
At 1:45 A.M. on April 4, 1979, four wardens entered the prison cell of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, a waifishly thin man, nearly wasted away by malaria, dysentery, and hunger strikes. Two of them lifted him by the arms and two by the feet, and he was carried out. His back was so low that it sometimes brushed the floor. He had insisted on shaving and bathing earlier that night—and had done so, with some difficulty—and he had changed into fresh clothes. He had always been fastidious about his appearance. But now the tail of his blousy shirt, ensnarled in the cleats of one of the wardens’ boots, became tattered and soiled.
Outside, in the courtyard of the Rawalpindi District Jail, Zulfi Bhutto, the first popularly elected Prime Minister in the history of Pakistan, was deposited on a stretcher, and his wrists were manacled. There was no guard of honor, and no military salute. As he was carried two hundred yards or so to a wooden scaffold, he raised his head slightly, but he said nothing. Otherwise, he didn’t move. The wardens led him up the scaffold, onto a wooden plank, and there a hangman put a hood over Bhutto’s head, completely covering his face, and a rope around his neck
“Ye mujhai?” (“This to me?”) According to a book by the chief of his security detail, Colonel M. Rafiuddin, who stood two feet away, Bhutto said this in a faint voice, and the Colonel believes he also heard him say, “God help me, for I am innocent!”
At four minutes after two, three hours ahead of schedule, and contrary to the prison code, the hangman pulled a lever, releasing the wooden plank, and Bhutto’s body plunged into a well.
“The bastard’s dead!” General Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, Pakistan’s military ruler, gleefully told his generals when the news came.
The only family members who had been permitted to see Bhutto in the hours before he died were his daughter Benazir, his firstborn and favorite child, who was then in her twenties, and his wife, Nusrat. They had been taken under guard from a deserted police-training camp where they were imprisoned and driven the few miles to the jail. Unlike previous visits, they had not been permitted inside his cell, and Benazir had sat cross-legged on a concrete floor as they received his final instructions through a thick, barred door.
“I pleaded with the jailers, I begged them to open the cell door, so that I could embrace him, and say a proper goodbye,” Benazir told me this summer. “But they refused. When I left him, I couldn’t look back; I knew that I couldn’t control myself. I’m not even sure how I managed to walk down that corridor, past the soldiers and past the guards. All I could think of was my head. ‘Keep it high,’ I told myself. ‘They are all watching.’ ”
Some fourteen hours later, Benazir remembers, she awoke suddenly at precisely two o’clock in the morning and sat bolt upright in bed. “No! No!” she screamed. “Papa! Papa!”
Five years ago, in her autobiography, she went on:
I felt so cold, so cold, in spite of the heat, and couldn’t stop shaking. There was nothing my mother and I could say to console each other. Somehow the hours passed. . . . We were ready at dawn to accompany my father’s body to our ancestral graveyard.
“I am in Iddat [mourning] and can’t receive outsiders. You talk to him,” my mother said dully when the jailer arrived. . . .
I walked into the cracked cement-floored front room that was supposed to serve as our sitting room. It stank of mildew and rot.
“We are ready to leave with the prime minister,” I told the junior jailer standing nervously before me.
“They have already taken him to be buried,” he said.
I felt as if he had struck me. “Without his family?” I asked. . . .
“They have taken him,” he interrupted.
“Taken him where?” The jailer was silent.
“It was very peaceful,” he finally replied “I have brought you what was left.”
#35 Posted by zeemax on April 4, 2008 8:44:28 pm
#32 Posted by bjkumar,
I'm not quoting from Col Rafiuddin's book or it's translation by any Mukhlis T. I'm quoting from the televised hour-long interview of Col Rafiuddin which was repeat broadcast yesterday on the anniversary. He said many things which are not in the book, like he knows who actually killed Kasuri, who provided the arms and ammunition, who was the actual target but Kasuri got hit instead ... and so forth.
When he was asked how did he know all that, he replied "remember I was in ISI ...they even know if anyone is in bed with his own wife or someone else's."
I'm not quoting from Col Rafiuddin's book or it's translation by any Mukhlis T. I'm quoting from the televised hour-long interview of Col Rafiuddin which was repeat broadcast yesterday on the anniversary. He said many things which are not in the book, like he knows who actually killed Kasuri, who provided the arms and ammunition, who was the actual target but Kasuri got hit instead ... and so forth.
When he was asked how did he know all that, he replied "remember I was in ISI ...they even know if anyone is in bed with his own wife or someone else's."
#34 Posted by akcheema on April 4, 2008 8:42:35 pm
Re: # 33; Zeemax
sorry man; you are misquoting me. I didn't say that 'gave little/got little' bit; bjk did.
please read again, thanks.
for all his faults, I stand by the statement I made that what happened to ZAB was utterly wrong and that he should have been allowed to either re-form government (since he'd won the elections in 1977) or electioned re-called (as the Amir-ul-mimineen initially promised; the 90 days i think it was). And if ZAB had been re-elected and the process carried on, a lot of the mess we are in now could have been avoided.
sorry man; you are misquoting me. I didn't say that 'gave little/got little' bit; bjk did.
please read again, thanks.
for all his faults, I stand by the statement I made that what happened to ZAB was utterly wrong and that he should have been allowed to either re-form government (since he'd won the elections in 1977) or electioned re-called (as the Amir-ul-mimineen initially promised; the 90 days i think it was). And if ZAB had been re-elected and the process carried on, a lot of the mess we are in now could have been avoided.
#33 Posted by zeemax on April 4, 2008 8:37:31 pm
#27 Posted by bjkumar
He was no different (if anything worse in many ways)
#28 Posted by akcheema
I'd most probably be called a superficial dingo/murtid ... He gave little and he got little.
Well ... bjkumar can be forgiven for his ignorance, but not akcheema because he's supposed to be a Pakistani, even though a shallow/dingo/murtid one.
You call a person who taught Pakistanis to ask for their rights, retrieved 93,000 POWs plus thousands of km territory from Indian capture without conceding anything - not even war trials, rehabilitated the Army and restored their dignity after the 1971 humiliation, started the nuclear programme despite all odds, gave the 1973 Constitution which is still the ONLY thing holding the country together 'no different...gave little and got little'?
Always judge things on balance, never through a one-way mirror. But guess this quality cannot be taught to madrasis and dingos.
He was no different (if anything worse in many ways)
#28 Posted by akcheema
I'd most probably be called a superficial dingo/murtid ... He gave little and he got little.
Well ... bjkumar can be forgiven for his ignorance, but not akcheema because he's supposed to be a Pakistani, even though a shallow/dingo/murtid one.
You call a person who taught Pakistanis to ask for their rights, retrieved 93,000 POWs plus thousands of km territory from Indian capture without conceding anything - not even war trials, rehabilitated the Army and restored their dignity after the 1971 humiliation, started the nuclear programme despite all odds, gave the 1973 Constitution which is still the ONLY thing holding the country together 'no different...gave little and got little'?
Always judge things on balance, never through a one-way mirror. But guess this quality cannot be taught to madrasis and dingos.
#32 Posted by bjkumar on April 4, 2008 8:28:40 pm
The actual link to the article by Mukhlis T (“The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto”) is the following:
www.chowk.com/articles/9370
(not the one I provided in #27)
And Zeemax, the guy Mukhlis T – whoever that be – merely translated a chapter of Col. Rafi ud Din’s Urdu book “Bhutto kay akhri 323 din”.
#31 Posted by zeemax on April 4, 2008 8:18:16 pm
#27 Posted by bjkumar,
Bhutto had been on hunger strike since 9 days, which is why he was carried on a stretcher. He was too feeble to walk. Col Rafiuddin stated in an interview on GEO that he clearly heard the word 'Finish' in a very faint voice, and he presumes the next word was 'it'.
Col Rafiuddin was the ISI Colonel assigned to keep 24/7 watch over Bhutto in jail till the edge of the gallows, and recorded each of his movements and utterances as he was required to do.
I don't know who this 'Mukhlis T' is. Probably one of the sort who killed ZAB and still rejoice over the judicial murder.
Bhutto had been on hunger strike since 9 days, which is why he was carried on a stretcher. He was too feeble to walk. Col Rafiuddin stated in an interview on GEO that he clearly heard the word 'Finish' in a very faint voice, and he presumes the next word was 'it'.
Col Rafiuddin was the ISI Colonel assigned to keep 24/7 watch over Bhutto in jail till the edge of the gallows, and recorded each of his movements and utterances as he was required to do.
I don't know who this 'Mukhlis T' is. Probably one of the sort who killed ZAB and still rejoice over the judicial murder.
#30 Posted by bjkumar on April 4, 2008 8:15:23 pm
Cheema sahib,
Many times “charismatic” leaders get carried away by their own charisma, they start thinking that they can do no wrong – that they can get away with virtually anything because they are strong in other areas!
The tragedy is that they realize little that their real loss is not whether they get elected during elections or not (which, in most cases they win – and would have won anyway), but what they fail to accomplish because they could not expand their own thinking horizons! They play petty politics, they plan strategies and maneuvers, and they miss out on what life is all about!
At the time of the Shimla pact, Bhutto was the undisputed Pakistani leader. The Pakistani khakis were a humbled lot – for a change, and he, a civilian leader had absolute power. Mrs. Gandhi wanted to come to some settlement of the Kashmir issue. That was one time that a workable solution could indeed have been worked out – had he the vision…
But, like the Jinnah, he lacked the vision! He made excuses. He talked wishy-washy. He gave little and he got little.
He only wanted time to rebuild the armed forces so that his khakis will live to fight the Indians another day!
He got his wish – anticipating little that HE was to be the rejuvenated khakis’ first victim!
#29 Posted by akcheema on April 4, 2008 7:23:44 pm
Re: 28
kalifa should be Khalifa
demage should be damage
apologies..
kalifa should be Khalifa
demage should be damage
apologies..
#28 Posted by akcheema on April 4, 2008 7:21:20 pm
Re: # 27; bjk;
I know I'd most probably be called a superficial dingo/murtid etc for saying this, problem is we are just sooo desperate for 'a god-like' hero amongst our mist; a saviour/messiah if you will. Jinnah/Bhutto are all a reflection of this mentality.
I strongly disagree with the aborrhent punishment he had to receive (dished out by none other than the "Kalifa-tul-muslimeen, Ameer-ul-momineen and Zill-e-subhani" General Mohammed Zia-ul-huq); but his 'democratic' period, when he could have achieved so much, was marred by the same sort of dirty political games (including severe persecution of opponents and in many occasions 'missings/deaths') that has been a hallmark of our country.
Just after this post, there will be a 'hue and cry' as we have seen before but that is the reality. He was no different (if anything worse in many ways) from his predecessors or successors for that matter.
I still say this in the strongest possible terms that if the democratic process hadn't been interrupted, it would have been much much better for the future to come; unfortunately that was a big turning point in our history and the opportunity was lost; the demage can be repaired still and that is why I watch this space intently but with caution.
I know I'd most probably be called a superficial dingo/murtid etc for saying this, problem is we are just sooo desperate for 'a god-like' hero amongst our mist; a saviour/messiah if you will. Jinnah/Bhutto are all a reflection of this mentality.
I strongly disagree with the aborrhent punishment he had to receive (dished out by none other than the "Kalifa-tul-muslimeen, Ameer-ul-momineen and Zill-e-subhani" General Mohammed Zia-ul-huq); but his 'democratic' period, when he could have achieved so much, was marred by the same sort of dirty political games (including severe persecution of opponents and in many occasions 'missings/deaths') that has been a hallmark of our country.
Just after this post, there will be a 'hue and cry' as we have seen before but that is the reality. He was no different (if anything worse in many ways) from his predecessors or successors for that matter.
I still say this in the strongest possible terms that if the democratic process hadn't been interrupted, it would have been much much better for the future to come; unfortunately that was a big turning point in our history and the opportunity was lost; the demage can be repaired still and that is why I watch this space intently but with caution.
#27 Posted by bjkumar on April 4, 2008 6:48:35 pm
#1 Zee(hadi)max,
While I sympathize with the Bhutto family for what happened to ZAB (and later, to the BeeB), the braggadocio that you post in #1 is somebody’s created account of fiction, perhaps (for all I know) with the motive of riling up people.
An eyewitness’ gripping (and moving) account of the actual ZAB hanging was published right here on this web-site and is still available. "The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto
" by Mukhlis T, published on July 11, 2005. (www.chowk.com/articles/7373). According to that article, Mr. ZAB was (understandably) very perturbed at the moment of his hanging and the moments immediately preceding, and he did not say much and certainly nothing of the kind that you put up here.
While I sympathize with the Bhutto family for what happened to ZAB (and later, to the BeeB), the braggadocio that you post in #1 is somebody’s created account of fiction, perhaps (for all I know) with the motive of riling up people.
An eyewitness’ gripping (and moving) account of the actual ZAB hanging was published right here on this web-site and is still available. "The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto
" by Mukhlis T, published on July 11, 2005. (www.chowk.com/articles/7373). According to that article, Mr. ZAB was (understandably) very perturbed at the moment of his hanging and the moments immediately preceding, and he did not say much and certainly nothing of the kind that you put up here.
#26 Posted by Ras on April 4, 2008 9:48:59 am
The Ba_tards that murdered ZAB
killed his sons and now his daughter too.
May they burn in hell!
#25 Posted by Urstruly on April 4, 2008 9:36:01 am
Re: # 23
THis is a correct thesis. The awami league rule would have meant end of feudalism in WP and end of army rule for good. As a matter of fact this thesis is the basis on which the corrupt ruling elite of WP and fouji junta decided that Pakistan need to be biforcated and hence the tragedy of East pakistan.
THis is a correct thesis. The awami league rule would have meant end of feudalism in WP and end of army rule for good. As a matter of fact this thesis is the basis on which the corrupt ruling elite of WP and fouji junta decided that Pakistan need to be biforcated and hence the tragedy of East pakistan.
#24 Posted by MantoLives on April 4, 2008 9:35:35 am
Very well written both posts HP.
"Stop bickering asadi and yassar"
There is no bickering on my part. Masadi has the right to his own opinion but he feels only he has the right and everyone else must concur with him or face the vilest abuse
from him.
Well it will be a cold day in hell before that happens.
"Stop bickering asadi and yassar"
There is no bickering on my part. Masadi has the right to his own opinion but he feels only he has the right and everyone else must concur with him or face the vilest abuse
from him.
Well it will be a cold day in hell before that happens.
#23 Posted by HP on April 4, 2008 9:24:42 am
Except for this: "ZAB merely protected the political rights of his constituents in the West," Asadi
Bhutto clearly saw an opening and worked with the army like many politicians still do. You don't protect the rights of people by supporting the army in destroying the majority party. If Majib or the Awami league had taken over, we might have had many democratic changes in Pakistan. Though I still believe that Mujib too was not interested in united Pakistan as he knew that army would not allow him to lead Pakistan for long.
Mujib would have given Pakistan a much better and more democratic constitution even though he was not really a fan of democracy himself.
Bhutto clearly saw an opening and worked with the army like many politicians still do. You don't protect the rights of people by supporting the army in destroying the majority party. If Majib or the Awami league had taken over, we might have had many democratic changes in Pakistan. Though I still believe that Mujib too was not interested in united Pakistan as he knew that army would not allow him to lead Pakistan for long.
Mujib would have given Pakistan a much better and more democratic constitution even though he was not really a fan of democracy himself.
#22 Posted by MantoLives on April 4, 2008 9:21:54 am
HP,
That is precisely my view. You know I am an old Bhutto supporter ... it is in my blood.
Bhutto was widely admired because he promised to bring to fruition what Jinnah had promised.
However he failed despite all odds in his favor. Therein lies the great tragedy.
I don't agree with your assessment of Mujib though. I think Mujib was a great man of action. He did lose his mind in his very last year though. He like Jinnah and Bhutto became the expression of the will of their people.
That is precisely my view. You know I am an old Bhutto supporter ... it is in my blood.
Bhutto was widely admired because he promised to bring to fruition what Jinnah had promised.
However he failed despite all odds in his favor. Therein lies the great tragedy.
I don't agree with your assessment of Mujib though. I think Mujib was a great man of action. He did lose his mind in his very last year though. He like Jinnah and Bhutto became the expression of the will of their people.
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