Akbar and Alexander

Re: # 127
1971 is an exception not a rule.an idiot can tell you that it was impossible for pakistan to fight a war that was 1000 miles away from home and that the entire population of bengalis was against them.Even than i am man enough to give you credit for your success.

Re: # 129: This history was probably not taught to you.

"The British won India, not from the Mughals, but from the Hindus. Before we appeared as conquerers, the Mughal Empire had broken up. Our conclusive wars were neither with the Delhi King, nor with his revolted governers, but with two Hindu confideracies, the Marathas and the Sikhs." p. 317 in the The Imperial Gazetteer of India. http://books.google.com/books?id=bdYMAAAAIAAJ.

Between the Mughal rule in Paki Punjab and the British rule, there was Khalsa raaj. Paki geography is shaped by this khalsa raj, for without it they would not have NWFP nor would India have Kashmir. Pakis are not unaware of this, though they would make every attempt to deny it. They consider loss to the British more palatable than the accursed Hindus.

Doon Boy,

Old game of dividing people Brahmin and Non-Brahmin is up! If Narayan Murthy and Aziz Premji can deliver then nobody cares about their caste of today or yesterday.

If you want to be historian then find out when rest of the world was still on tree tops how, why and who developed metallurgy of what we call today Kutub minar, where lived Panini the first grammarian who was Bhaskaracharya's gurus. That would help India more.

Re: # 131
You may have few one hit wonders in 5000 years of history.remember panini was from attock,learn some geography.

Re: # 132: So Paki own Panini? Do you name Sahitya Academy in his honor? How many PhDs dissertations on him and his grammar?

Pakis are middle-eastern by choice. Why don't you vacate the occupied land of present day Pakistan and head back to Mecca?

Muradbaig:

"For references and bibliography read my book"


So, you are your own reference. That's really impressive!


You did not answer the question:Why is there no embedded memory of such savagery among Hindus, Buddhists and Jains?


guru:

The metallurgy pillar is not the kutub minar, it is called the Ashoka pillar, located next to the qutub minar.

muradbaig#124:

"many people are also guided by well sanitized school history books"


Which sanitised history books are you referring to:

1. The British period school texts which exaggerated Black Hole and downplayed "Sepoy Mutiny"?
2. The Nehruvian period which berated the Hindu religion (much of it well deserved!) and presented Muslim rule as benevolent towards Hindus?
3. The short-lived Manohar Joshi rewrite which demonised Muslims? or
4. The latest arjun-singh rewrite?

From the demographics of Indian chowkies, most of them would have been taught the second version.

Re: # 135

"2. The Nehruvian period which berated the Hindu religion (much of it well deserved!) and presented Muslim rule as benevolent towards Hindus?
"

First of all there is no such thing as Hindu religion. It was all hypocritical. Was ever Sanatan Dharma taught or studied? How many studied patanjali Yoga Sutra, Bhagwad Geeta, Vashishta Geeta and Katho Upanishad. We all missed on that. Instead of history we should have relied on Itihaas.

Muradbaig

"For references and bibliography read my book"
Earlier I asked you for references (page number/article) when you wrote similar unsubstantiated research in your "India unvarnished" article. I have no intention of spending money on your book. Would you be kind enough to provide good references?

PS: Meahwhile also do a time-line study of Adi Shankra, and Angkorwat temples and explain how Buddhists were able to take over hindu temples 3 centuries after Shankara.

#124 muradbaig

[For references and bibliography read my book:

REFLECTIONS IN A SACRED POND]

Of course. I guessed as much...

If you have the time to be posting long posts on Chowk, you definitely have the time to defend your assertions with specific references - just mention your point, and also the book/article etc. that validates it.

Reading through your whole book, finding out where you made those points, and then crosschecking against your bibliography is a mammoth task.

Put up your evidence or admit that you have none.

Yaar, it's not fair to pile on baig sahib. One can perfectly well expect that many Indian kings etc, in their wars, destroyed whatever religious iconery/temples/stupas etc of their political foes. And in political fights, people of different groups, including between buddhists and non-buddhists (since there were no Hindus then) suffered.

What is unlikely is that people were extirpated and killed en masse, across large parts of India, in the name of religion or for their religious beliefs per se - definitely not for buddhist beliefs.

May be it happened, but is quite unlikely. And if baig sahib shows us how and when that happened - mass killings of buddhists for following the Buddha (instead of being brahmins and kshatriyas, for example), leading to extinction of Buddhism from almost everywhere in India - that will be a great service to every one.

Please try to understand that history is much more than books alone. The things in the past were very different from our perspectives today. Our wonderful history was not limited to the geographic boundaries of where the British and other colonialists stuck their flags so there is absolutely no point in arguing if Panini was Indian or Pakistani. If Gandhari of the Mahabharat came from Gandahar it does not make her Afghan. And our history may cover the whole of central Asia long before legends became embedded into the huge baggage of myths that all priests incorporated into all religions as they evolved.

The `religion' of all these people was neither Hinduism or Islam that were of much more recent origin. There was mostly anamist tribal worship of local deities that is still very widely practiced. The rulers were mainly Buddhist for 1000 years from Ashoka to Harshavardhan with the exception of a short 147 year Gupta period in a part of North India. The Rulers were mostly Muslim from the 12th to 18th Century and then British for 200 years. So India had never been a Hindu country till 1947.

The word Hindu had earlier beeen just a geographic expression meaning the natives of the land of the Sindhu (or Hindu as Cyrus the Great had defined in the 6th century BC). It was anly used as the name for a religion after Ram Mohun Roy just 200 years ago. And as a Religion there were huge differences between the Hinduism of the Vedas, the Puranas and in other periods.

This Article is about the characters of two great but imperfect Emperors and we need to get back to that theme.

Murad

Re: # 140:

Indians, don't waste your time on these web sites. A grain of action goes farther than a mountain of discussion. Action can lead to integrity which is needed for peace. Peace/Shanti will give you the bliss ie right thought at right time. Visit goodbewsindia.com

We are in the age of very fast technological change. Which might be frightening if we deal with it serially and discretely as trained by MCaulay system. Murad Babu is a creature brought up in this abuse to get BA (Hon) in some subject.

Have trust! We do not need to read more learn about some Cyrus guy. We would rather care about how Dr. Patil created Cirrus Logic logic, his 84 year old Dad developed Devnagiri font in 1989.

Ask yourself how many patents you developed this month. How many new employees you hired this month? To sustain that growth you will realize dissolution of ego or Ananda.

Re: # 141
Khas kum jahan pak.

muradbaig#140:

Sir, I had no problem with your article. You derailed the discussion by your post#110 and then could not give satisfactory answers to any of the questions raised by me and others. And now, you may derail the discussion further into what is India, what were people's religious practices and who ruled when and other issues.

Re: # 119
Ekalavya...

There were no Hindus then, and presumably not just brahmins could have carried out such mass extirmination of Buddhists.

Ans: Ho ho ho ho...Do you believe in this theory of extermination?
These Romilla thapar ,moslems ( & liars) like Irphan Habibs just presents such concocted stories to prevent backlash against muslims...Go to Thirupati temple, Kashi Vishwanath Temple, Mathura ...
Indians were never violent against Budhdhists. Some brahmins disagreed to loose power. They used to influence kings to extract money and prove Budhdhists wrong. Majority of the people assimilated with some of the budhdhist and jain philosphy; budhdhism lost its identity in India. During puranic age, Budhdha was accepted as avatar of Vishnu....
Why Budhdhism survived in indo-china, china and japan for long time?
Because they have formed their own type of Budhdhism and were able to transfer Indian knowledge to these areas....

The monastic structure, tonsuring, bhikshu etc. concept originated from budhdhism and adopted in mainstream...
Now, none of school history books talks about islamic barbarism in India, destruction of education system, stagnation in all fields like (medical science, mathematics etc...)...
That scoundrel Akber, who Mr. Murad claims great, tried to distort indian philosphy by creating whole new Upanishad "Allopanishad" and merge with Atharva Veda!!!! What a rotten shit!!!! And you see Joker Naik, the GREAT Phlosopher,claims that the Vedas mentioned about Muhammed and allah...