In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful

Re: # 972

eklavy saab,

the question was not about what individuals got out saab

question is about moral value saab

for example, is it ok saab if i have sex with zeemax's sister saab without marrying her saab?

as long as she has good time saab and i guarantee that saab

is zeemax saab happy about that saab? you should check with him saab

what is good for him saab is goo for me saab

then he should not bring Quran e Majid into this saab as Quran e Majid clearly talks of this as a moral issue saab and not just individual matter of having good time saab

Ajeya #968 {"You are just delaying the inevitable. Come on now. Let's have the answer"}

Ajeya,
I could also ask you whether you had stopped beating your wife. Your question is as stupid as that age-old trick. If you were seriously interested in the reasons and justifications for the various marriages of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and his companions, I would gladly indulge your quest. Unfortunately, you are merely interested in finding any ammunition whatsoever to use for scoring against the people you hate - Muslims and Pakis.

The marriages included Mohammed's (PBUH) life-long partner, a widow who was 15 years older than he. Also, he married a black woman, an Egyption Copt, and a daughter of Hazrat Omar (RA). He gave the hands of two daughters to Hazrat Othman (RA) and one to Imam Ali (RA). In the tribal Arabia of those days, it was customary to marry to cement alliances. Yes, he married Hazrat Ayesha (RA), the young daughter of Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA). Thanks to the senility of certain sources, who wrote several generations after the events, there is considerable confusion about her age at the time of her marriage and consummation of that marriage. The most reliable version puts that age between 16 and 18.

If you are attempting to suggest that, Nauzbillah, our Holy Prophet (PBUH) was a pedophile, Toba Toba, then you must know that pedophilia is manifested as a recurring problem and never a single faux pas. Shame on you. Do you have the same inquisitive concern about all the other religious leaders in history? What have you researched about Jesus Christ? about Brigham Young? About the Medicis?

peon sahib, sorry I overlooked this. Have answered it on unplugged. Regards.

Re: # 946

eklavy saab

this is what Zeemax said saab
"{"Yaar forget it. I just fucked half a dozen hindoo wenches in three holes each last week in Bahrain, Dubai and Muscat. This idiot just wants one Muslim right? So all I'm saying is go ahead and do it."}"

may be this is the Islam you were talking about eklavy saab of promiscuous sex and alcohol saab

if it is good enough for zeemax it is good enough for all the other muslims saab, right?

Re: # 946

eklavy saab,

is this the same islam saab that zeemax promotes saab

according to zeemax the munafiq saab it is ok to drink alcohol and sleep with women. may be that is why you mentioned sexual promiscuity saab

also zeemax the munafiq doesnot believe in namaz,roza,zakat,haj either saab

we donot have to look at american suffi thing saab,we have this Islam right here in our country saab

#965 Urstruly

[Name one person from this day and age of reality TV and paparazzi whose life has been documented so closely as that of prophet Mohammad (pbuh). Now take your mind to centuries ago and think whether it was possible then? Can't you see that Allah made it possible through Prophet Mohammad's (companions and wives).Today we know extremely minute details about the life of Holy Prophet because these people made effort to document it. Since life of prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is the beacon for the rest of humanity, which guides humanity how to be successful in every aspect in this life and beyond, Allah made arrangements through Ayesha (RA) and other companions to document the very private life of Prophet so that the people who would come later would understand his personality with ease.. It is because of Ayesh (RA) and the thousands of hadiths that she narrated that we come up with a complete picture of a human being of which a large part of humanity even today is in awe. This is the power of Divine mandate. Our mother Ayesha (RA) later turned out to be one of the greatest scholars in history of Islam. How can you deny this evidence that their marriage was a Divine mandate. Don't you see that very "historical evidence" that you use to berate us was provided by none other but Ayesha (ra) herself and protected and propagated by none other but us. Could you ever know about Ayesha (ra) had she not documented it for us?Do you have an evidence of your own?

So please calm down. Don't you see that there is a Divine mandate at work here again, otherwise why would you come here at Chowk and inquire about a person who passed away 15 centuries ago.]

Urstruly,

I wish you could see how idiotic this sounds from outside the padded cell.

You have provided "proof" that he is a messenger of god because his life is the "most documented" therefore there is a divine purpose. Therefore he was the messenger, and therefore nothing else matters.

You see, for rational people, the reasoning is the OTHER way round. He is a pedophile, a mass murderer and a serial killer. Therefore one should not listen to ANYTHING that comes out of his mouth. Especially cock-and-bull stories about meeting a winged creature in a cave. Case closed.


[Don't you understand that God is in fact pleased with you? He has brought you closer to the people who can answer your queries. Please do not waste this extraordinary opportunity wallowing in self inflicted hatred.]

When I see a pedophile, I call him a pedophile. I don't see that as an opportunity.

[Open up your mind and recognize your Creator who shows great mercy to you.]

You see, Urstruly, I don't need the creator's or anyone's "mercy". This is because I an not a "faithful" belonging to the simplistic and childish Abrahamic traditions. I identify with the philosophy that is inherent in our Sanatana Dharma - that says "Tat twam asi" or "You are him". I AM a manifestation of that trandescent reality, also known as Brahman. As is everything else. We Hindus are not "afraid", and therefore do not need "mercy".

It's as simple as that.

#963 Salim_Chauhan

[You are asking me as if I was there. Let me tell you that I was not there and neither were you. ]

Heh heh. No, I am NOT asking you that (and you know it too). I am NOT asking you whether IN FACT it happened.

I am asking you that IF it had indeed happened (if we assume that iit had happened, just for argument's sake), THEN would you consider him a pervert?

You are just delaying the inevitable. Come on now. Let's have the answer.

:-)

dm ji, this is not a new Urstruly. Urstruly bhai has been like this (and has made the same or similar arguments with similar restraint) for as long as I remember.

Yeah, often he gets in a fighting mood, but then who does not? :)

Urstruly#965:

Wow! Have you mellowed, or have you mellowed?

Re: # 961

Yours is a futile effort. People are hesitant to answer your question because you are not ready to open up your mind and understand it. Here let me try:

First of all understand that, in our mind there is absolutely no doubt that Mohammad (pbuh) was true prophet of God and his marriage with Ayesha was a Divine mandate. Now since you are a non-believer in the above two notions your logic runs in the opposite direction instead i.e. Since Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) married a minor (according to present day standards) therefore he cannot be Prophet. Let me explain why a believer's logic is valid and non-believer's logic is invalid:

Name one person from this day and age of reality TV and paparazzi whose life has been documented so closely as that of prophet Mohammad (pbuh). Now take your mind to centuries ago and think whether it was possible then? Can't you see that Allah made it possible through Prophet Mohammad's (companions and wives). Today we know extremely minute details about the life of Holy Prophet because these people made effort to document it. Since life of prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is the beacon for the rest of humanity, which guides humanity how to be successful in every aspect in this life and beyond, Allah made arrangements through Ayesha (RA) and other companions to document the very private life of Prophet so that the people who would come later would understand his personality with ease.. It is because of Ayesh (RA) and the thousands of hadiths that she narrated that we come up with a complete picture of a human being of which a large part of humanity even today is in awe. This is the power of Divine mandate. Our mother Ayesha (RA) later turned out to be one of the greatest scholars in history of Islam. How can you deny this evidence that their marriage was a Divine mandate. Don't you see that very "historical evidence" that you use to berate us was provided by none other but Ayesha (ra) herself and protected and propagated by none other but us. Could you ever know about Ayesha (ra) had she not documented it for us?Do you have an evidence of your own?

So please calm down. Don't you see that there is a Divine mandate at work here again, otherwise why would you come here at Chowk and inquire about a person who passed away 15 centuries ago. Don't you understand that God is in fact pleased with you? He has brought you closer to the people who can answer your queries. Please do not waste this extraordinary opportunity wallowing in self inflicted hatred. Open up your mind and recognize your Creator who shows great mercy to you.
:

Salim:

Jan Sangh became BJP, unless a new entity has come up with the same name. Hindu Sabha may still be surviving in name somewhere but it's dead for all practical purposes.

Ajeya #959,
You are asking me as if I was there. Let me tell you that I was not there and neither were you. Also, I was not there when the Gopi Groper groped the gopis or the big chief screwed his own daughter or when Sita went Ram Ram with Rawan or when Hanuman mounted Ganesh. This is all told to people by people removed from reality by several generations.

{"Does Jan Sangh still exist after the creation of the BJP? "}

DM Sahib,
I really don't keep track of them - they all look the same to me. Is Jan Sangh dead or part of BJP? What happened to the Hindu Mahasabha - the real creators of Pakistan?

After a while the KKK, Aryan Brothers, White Power, Liberty College, 700 Club, etc all start to get blurred as one aberration.

It's interesting, isn't it, how a small simple yes or no question can take people so long to answer?

: )

Salim#955:

Does Jan Sangh still exist after the creation of the BJP?

#95 Salim_Chauhan

[These "sources" of Hadiths were born generations after the events that they so "accurately" describe. So and so told so and so who told so and so that so and so did this to so and so. No wonder, some very learned people in Turkey are going to heave a lot of this unsubstantiated nonsense into the trash bin.]


To everyone who is watching this debate: THIS is how you deal with people who try to exonerate the guilty by creating doubts about the details of the crime:

Hey Salim,

One question. IF IT WAS TRUE that Mohammed had expressed a desire to marry Ayesha when she was 6, and ultimately married her when she was 9, would you THEN consider him to be a lowlife?

Please note that I am not saying here if it was ACTUALLY TRUE OR NOT. Just tell me - IF IT WAS TRUE - then would you consider him to be a lowlife and a pervert?

(Just don't tell me that you don't discuss hypotheticals. Because over the years, you have discussed lots of hypothetical questions.)

Can we get an answer to this?

:-)

(that smiley means that I am asking nicely)