Don’t Hang Sarabjeet

Re: # 67 salim sahib
You have questioned the questionable intellect of the pakistani populace by elevating the status of Zardari to that of a statesman.Even Machavely would be throwing up in his grave by the induction of Zardari in the hall of statesmen.

#67 *upon his party and not up his party

HP,Zeemax, and Tahmed32
We need to separate the extinguishing aspirations of the lame duck dick traitor from the genuine concerns of the Urdu-speaking citizens of Pakistan. It is obvious that MQM and its absentee strongman in London do not represent the legitimate interests of Karachi or Pakistan.

The people of Pakistan voted overwhelmingly, despite all forms of rigging and pressure by Mushy, for the restoration of true democracy. Urdu speaking people, above all else, are Muslims and Pakistanis first. Any attempt by MQM or Mushy to hijack their interests will backfire.

While Asif Ali Zardari has demonstrated superior statesmanship and diplomacy, he should not squander the goodwill and trust that the people of Pakistan have bestowed up his party and coalition. The very fact that Mushy is President is an insult to democracy, the rule of law, and the image of Pakistan. The dick traitor used a lame duck Parliament to manufacture an outcome that would never have occurred in an honest vote. He had already manipulated the judiciary to cause a favorable outcome for himself. Even the most stupid person can recognize the shenanigans of this buffoon who has stayed on the stage far too long for any audience not to vomit.

The justices must be restored, including the reinstatement of the CJ and then Mushy must be removed, tried, and hanged for his usurpation of power and betrayal of Pakistan. I supported Mushy when I thought he was the least of all evils for Pakistan. I detest Mushy when he is the most obvious evil confronting Pakistan. I supported the MQM when it was struggling for the rights of Karachiites. I am now against the MQM for its support of Mushy and its role as spoiler in the redemocratization of the nation.

#62 zeemax: "They talk in the language of bullets and bombs."

however: the pen is mightier than the sword. the mullah may have the guns, but the civil society of Pakistan has God on its side. but dont let that stop you from dreaming of mullahs taking over pakistan.

Devil's Advocate HP #61:

1. On What Zardari promised: he never mentioned any package deal in Bhurban. There is no question he made a promise he did not plan to keep.

2. On military/US/EU pressures: This is a poor excuse. The tremendous people's mandate PPP received gives it the legitimacy it needs. If it refuses to exercise it, then it has done nothing less than betray the trust of the people when they voted for it. In stalling on the judges issue (when it could and should have restored them at the same time they were freed) the PPP leadership has lost credibility - the same way ZAB lost credibility when he similarly betrayed the false hopes he created.

3. On provincial issues: Contrary to what you think, the judges issue is one that affects every single pakistan - since it goes at the heart of whether Pakistan will be ruled by law or by strongmen (waderas, ghondas, or military generals). As a practical matter, if waderas and mqm ghoondas are too strongly entrenched in Sindh (as per the Zardari-altaf friendship), if mullahs and tribal rulers are too strongly entrenched in NWFP and Baluchistan, then that is no reason for the panjab to step back on this issue.

Finally, you write: "Now they need to figure out how to keep pressure on the PPP and the Parliament to restore the judges and bring Musharaf down thru the Supreme Court." Agreed. And that is why Nawaz Sharif and PML are now the standard bearers alongside the lawyers on what is nothing less than the Freedom Struggle for Pakistanis.

HP,

Who the eff is zardari to decide whether the judges should be restored or not given whatever pressures. This is what the people voted PPP into power for. USA, Army or not. People want Judiciary restored - period.

But he has spilled it. And he too will be hung for that alongwith musharraf ... side by side.

#61 Posted by HP,

Why're you avoiding stating that the European Union also said the Karachi election was rigged by MQM?

#58 Posted by tahmed32,

Mehsuds don't ask for votes, nor do they care about these. They talk in the language of bullets and bombs. And you'll see whether the lawyers join them or not.

I don't think PML-N will be able to do much either, even though they would not want to. I think eventually they will join the bullet vote as well.

What else can a person do with zardaris and musharrafs?

#53 Posted by tahmed32
“Also I think Zardari has made a huge blunder by making it clear that he never meant to live up to his commitment to restoration of the judges.”

He did not say that. He said that it will be done thru a package. However, that too is a vague promise and I don’t expect any action on that.

Let me be the devil’s advocate here.

Apparently, the coalition and Pakistan are under tremendous pressure from the Pak army and perhaps the US to keep Mush as president. It seems to me that choice is between Mush and the Judges. You bring Judges in, Judges would go after Mush. Annoying both the US and the army and they may act against the parliament. Where do you go from there?
Remember just the other day the EU secretary firmly and publically said that Musharaf will complete his term…Wasn’t that a strong message for the political parties?
Army is dragging its feet on the Baluchistan issue. Akhtar Mangel is still in jail along with thousands of Baloch nationalist. What is important saving Baluchistan or the Judges?

In reality the Judges issue is just a symbolic issue. Three smaller provinces don’t see it as the primary issue. For NWFP the primary issue is the situation in FATA. For Baluchistan the primary issue is the release of Baloch leaders , workers, withdrawing the army from Baluchistan, and the missing persons. For Sindh, it is about jobs, the law and order, and thousands of unresolved issues. Did you read about how thousands of people swarm the secretariat and ministers offices in Karachi everyday for resolution of problems that were shoved under the rug by the previous govt.?

From the PPP pov, any confrontation over the judges’ issue will not help the country. If the govt. is forcibly dissolved, a great opportunity to help the constituents will be lost in every province but Punjab.

There are two groups in the judges’ issue the PMLn and the Lawyers. The whole thing is a setback for them as they were looking for an easy victory and a grand victory parade in Lahore. That did not happen so they are in for a long haul. I think they should move forward with their plans and come out on the streets. Build pressure the govt wouls use that pressure to get a deal from the army.

As I see it, Zaradri failed to convince the army that Judges are needed and Musharaf is not. Not every issue in politics is resolved. Some issues are used for bargaining, some to fight another day and some for getting to some other things. The MLn and the lawyers wanted the judges back to get Musharaf.

Now they need to figure out how to keep pressure on the PPP and the Parliament to restore the judges and bring Musharaf down thru the Supreme Court.

Anyhoo - if you pakis need any other reason to let this dude go - we let your 90K pows go, so give us one back... quid pro quo...

#57 thanks.

#56 zeemax: How many votes did Mehsud get in the last elections? :-)

In any case, I think the PML is doing a great job of not letting Zardari get away with being "overclever".

..if he had said aired his grievances in Bhurbhan rather than making false promises at that time.

This is very well said.

tahmed32,

tahmed, Baitullah Mehsud will hang Zardari upside down. Even you don't realize the consequence of this.

I'll post a pic on UP tomorrow from near Peshawar. Watch it. I've run out of threads today.

#54 that would be fine..if he had said aired his grievances in Bhurbhan rather than making false promises at that time.

Like I said - he is making the same mistake as Musharraf made in not understanding the mood of the country. And in trying to be "overclever". Musharraf made one blunder after another last year, and Zardari has just made his first major blunder by making a promise to the nation before TV cameras that he did not intend to keep.

jardari is deeply hurt by the judges..he was jailed for 3 years for not paying customs duty on a BMW...this is what he said in a radio interview. there was a lot of emotion in his voice..he said he pleaded 5 times in front of these judges and they did not give him justice. he wants a new set of judges...this is personal.