The Power of Faith
Nadeem Akram April 28, 2008
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#28 Posted by nasah on May 2, 2008 9:29:58 pm
"The majority of Muslim children growing up in Pakistan have rudimentary knowledge of their faith" (author)
Still not enough madrassas in Pakistan for you sir -- so much faith-based murder and mayhem with the "rudimentary" knowledge of the faith -- just imagine what would have happened to Pakistan naoozobillah -- if the Murdoodis and the Fazoloos had the "full" knowledge of the faith -- something to think about!
Still not enough madrassas in Pakistan for you sir -- so much faith-based murder and mayhem with the "rudimentary" knowledge of the faith -- just imagine what would have happened to Pakistan naoozobillah -- if the Murdoodis and the Fazoloos had the "full" knowledge of the faith -- something to think about!
#27 Posted by rashid_s on May 2, 2008 8:41:49 pm
At # 3 posted by Tahir—“Show us that proud Muslim face that only prostrates before Allah …..,”.
As a retired person, I have time on my hand but do not spend my time in mosques, the embodiment of the institution of ‘mother church’ and the abode of its operatives the ‘clergy’. But I enjoy the company of young inquiring minds who can ask the above quoted question and invite to tease out some more questions.
This word ‘Allah’ is Arabic because the person (Muhammad) who was inspired to compile the Quran, was born in Arabia and was himself an Arab, hence Arabic "Allah"
If we are talking of ‘prostrating’, that is obeying the ONE Universal Creator’s natural and societal laws for all, should not Allah’s name be that which is understood by all English speaking people? Should that not be GOD? By insisting on using Allah, does not that make HIM a specific ‘desert deity’ and of the Arabs only?
Does not the Quran say that there were many Messengers in all nations before Muhammad, some named therein and some not? Did they all speak Arabic? Does not this insistence on Arabic word go against the grain of the teaching of the universal ‘brotherhood” of humanity, which is the bedrock of Towheed- oneness?
With reference to the article itself, here are a few issues. But first I append here what I witnessed in animal nature some time ago:
There was a pile of garden clippings, couple of weeks old, which we set on fire. Just as the pile was torched we noticed a lizard dash out, run a few steps and turn back into the fiery pile. This it did number of times, not to come out finally as the pile was well and truly lit, before it could be put out to investigate the cause of this behavior. It came to pass that there were a few baby lizards and the mother-lizard along with them was now perished!And so?
“And when logic, reason and vision fail us, we blame it all on fate”, says a quote from the article.
That was the fate (Qadar) of the animal Lizard in nature’s laws, its instinct. However Human being is endowed with thinking capacity and is therefore expected to assess the situation for every “action” it takes, logically and thoughtfully. Spirituality in short, does not depend only on the belief in what kismat (luck) dishes out but also the rationality of ‘righteous deeds’, actions that produce good reactions.
One more issue,“….Do they know what it means by “There is no god but Allah and Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is His messenger…..” a further quote. Generally speaking one would say ‘NO’.
Nadeem Mian ( I mean it endearingly)—No where in Quran the two parts of the kalima (declaration of oneness of God) appear all together in one sentence. That is to say, the uniqueness of God and that Muhammad is His Messenger on the one line. It is easy to see why. The FIRST PART is the ‘article of faith’ of all major faiths. Its manifestations might vary from church to church! This belief therefore puts Humanity on par.
But the second part of kalima belongs to just one community(Ummah) of people who call themselves Muslims, with various factions thrown therein for good business. Quran dubs factions as akin to committing shirk.
The second part, stands alone where ever it appears in the Book (see 3-144,33-40,48-29). If it was essential for the declaration of universal faith, then all previous messengers would have declared and ordained it so to their followers. But that is not so. Yet Quran says to its addressee Messenger that they were ‘not told any different to what you are told’, and that God does ‘not differentiate between prophets’. Therefore by us combining the two parts in the article of faith , contrary to Quran, the very essence of the oneness of God, exaltedness of all messengers, and brotherhood of mankind, is NEGATED, even if a Messenger is raised to a higher level close to God. It dilutes HIS pristine ness and introduces a PERSONALITY CULT in the faith. That then becomes a ‘religion’ and Islam is not one – it is not Mohammedanism. Muslims have created this ‘world view” by their own actions, similar to say, Christianity with Christ the man as the focus. The meaning of towheed is obvious—no person is above another and all mankind is equal and worthy of dignity. The first part frees mankind from all kinds of gulaami-that is slavery.
In the words of a poet Azhar:
Mai Khudaa toe nah thaa aey kalima-go ---jo oos sey tuney milaa diyaa mujh ko.
(I was not god Oh proclaimer of Kalima—--that you put me on par with HIM).
Belief in Muhammad as a messenger being a human being and the seal of messenger is necessary if we are to believe that God in HIS wisdom has completed the Code and that mankind as a whole has matured enough now and is on its way to attain the status of ‘humanity’ (Alas not there yet in practice, thanks to religious dogmas!) and should stand on its own intellectual feet from here on, and no props are available from the ONE Universal Creator, call HIM Allah, Khudaa, Rab, God, Parabhu, Got, Mungu and what ever other names one chooses to give HIM. But that does not mean that those who whish to excercise their freedom not to believe in the second part, yet commit no shirk and act ‘righteously’ for the benefit of mankind will be left out in the cold (eg see 2-62, 5-69 etc).
This thought process by no means diminishes the exalted position of Messenger Mohammad. On the contrary it enhances his achievements in that he achieved them despite being a mere human being (Bashar). Had he fulfilled his mission with irrational ‘miraculous’ help with winged angles at his side, it would not have been a big deal! (Did the apple really fall on Newton’s head? If yes, then what fell on Einstein’s head?).
“Each one of us today has developed our own version of Islam” you say. I would add also ‘and our own version of religions (30-32)’. This is what has happened with all RELIGIONS. Religions are based on personality cult and are the largest employer of ‘the blind following blind’s’ dogma. What is more, its operatives the clergy depend on the “business of divisiveness”!
“Deen-e-Mullah fee sabillillah fasad”. Remember, the poor Mullah embraces all Clergy.Sorry folks I took my time!
Rashid
As a retired person, I have time on my hand but do not spend my time in mosques, the embodiment of the institution of ‘mother church’ and the abode of its operatives the ‘clergy’. But I enjoy the company of young inquiring minds who can ask the above quoted question and invite to tease out some more questions.
This word ‘Allah’ is Arabic because the person (Muhammad) who was inspired to compile the Quran, was born in Arabia and was himself an Arab, hence Arabic "Allah"
If we are talking of ‘prostrating’, that is obeying the ONE Universal Creator’s natural and societal laws for all, should not Allah’s name be that which is understood by all English speaking people? Should that not be GOD? By insisting on using Allah, does not that make HIM a specific ‘desert deity’ and of the Arabs only?
Does not the Quran say that there were many Messengers in all nations before Muhammad, some named therein and some not? Did they all speak Arabic? Does not this insistence on Arabic word go against the grain of the teaching of the universal ‘brotherhood” of humanity, which is the bedrock of Towheed- oneness?
With reference to the article itself, here are a few issues. But first I append here what I witnessed in animal nature some time ago:
There was a pile of garden clippings, couple of weeks old, which we set on fire. Just as the pile was torched we noticed a lizard dash out, run a few steps and turn back into the fiery pile. This it did number of times, not to come out finally as the pile was well and truly lit, before it could be put out to investigate the cause of this behavior. It came to pass that there were a few baby lizards and the mother-lizard along with them was now perished!And so?
“And when logic, reason and vision fail us, we blame it all on fate”, says a quote from the article.
That was the fate (Qadar) of the animal Lizard in nature’s laws, its instinct. However Human being is endowed with thinking capacity and is therefore expected to assess the situation for every “action” it takes, logically and thoughtfully. Spirituality in short, does not depend only on the belief in what kismat (luck) dishes out but also the rationality of ‘righteous deeds’, actions that produce good reactions.
One more issue,“….Do they know what it means by “There is no god but Allah and Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is His messenger…..” a further quote. Generally speaking one would say ‘NO’.
Nadeem Mian ( I mean it endearingly)—No where in Quran the two parts of the kalima (declaration of oneness of God) appear all together in one sentence. That is to say, the uniqueness of God and that Muhammad is His Messenger on the one line. It is easy to see why. The FIRST PART is the ‘article of faith’ of all major faiths. Its manifestations might vary from church to church! This belief therefore puts Humanity on par.
But the second part of kalima belongs to just one community(Ummah) of people who call themselves Muslims, with various factions thrown therein for good business. Quran dubs factions as akin to committing shirk.
The second part, stands alone where ever it appears in the Book (see 3-144,33-40,48-29). If it was essential for the declaration of universal faith, then all previous messengers would have declared and ordained it so to their followers. But that is not so. Yet Quran says to its addressee Messenger that they were ‘not told any different to what you are told’, and that God does ‘not differentiate between prophets’. Therefore by us combining the two parts in the article of faith , contrary to Quran, the very essence of the oneness of God, exaltedness of all messengers, and brotherhood of mankind, is NEGATED, even if a Messenger is raised to a higher level close to God. It dilutes HIS pristine ness and introduces a PERSONALITY CULT in the faith. That then becomes a ‘religion’ and Islam is not one – it is not Mohammedanism. Muslims have created this ‘world view” by their own actions, similar to say, Christianity with Christ the man as the focus. The meaning of towheed is obvious—no person is above another and all mankind is equal and worthy of dignity. The first part frees mankind from all kinds of gulaami-that is slavery.
In the words of a poet Azhar:
Mai Khudaa toe nah thaa aey kalima-go ---jo oos sey tuney milaa diyaa mujh ko.
(I was not god Oh proclaimer of Kalima—--that you put me on par with HIM).
Belief in Muhammad as a messenger being a human being and the seal of messenger is necessary if we are to believe that God in HIS wisdom has completed the Code and that mankind as a whole has matured enough now and is on its way to attain the status of ‘humanity’ (Alas not there yet in practice, thanks to religious dogmas!) and should stand on its own intellectual feet from here on, and no props are available from the ONE Universal Creator, call HIM Allah, Khudaa, Rab, God, Parabhu, Got, Mungu and what ever other names one chooses to give HIM. But that does not mean that those who whish to excercise their freedom not to believe in the second part, yet commit no shirk and act ‘righteously’ for the benefit of mankind will be left out in the cold (eg see 2-62, 5-69 etc).
This thought process by no means diminishes the exalted position of Messenger Mohammad. On the contrary it enhances his achievements in that he achieved them despite being a mere human being (Bashar). Had he fulfilled his mission with irrational ‘miraculous’ help with winged angles at his side, it would not have been a big deal! (Did the apple really fall on Newton’s head? If yes, then what fell on Einstein’s head?).
“Each one of us today has developed our own version of Islam” you say. I would add also ‘and our own version of religions (30-32)’. This is what has happened with all RELIGIONS. Religions are based on personality cult and are the largest employer of ‘the blind following blind’s’ dogma. What is more, its operatives the clergy depend on the “business of divisiveness”!
“Deen-e-Mullah fee sabillillah fasad”. Remember, the poor Mullah embraces all Clergy.Sorry folks I took my time!
Rashid
#26 Posted by Charlie on May 2, 2008 2:39:13 pm
Dear Nadeem,
Start was excellent... Explains the beauty of Nature...
But how come Maulvi and Kalima came into discussion...
If you like the basic natural instint of motherly love among animals, I think it is more appropriate to praise laws of nature... And Laws of Nature are genetic, particle physics, psychology etc...
When humans didn't understand these laws, they started worshipping them... Accepting the fact that these phenomenon were stronger than human capabilities... They used to worship snakes, monkeys.. And then mooons and stars... At the end, they decided to worship only one imaginary thing : God that controls all the phenomena of nature stronger than them... Hence, God became one single entity representging all those natural laws that were not yet uncovered by human beings...
Now Let's say, God is the one driving all laws of nature... (which is a useless assumption.. if you want to worship the most powerful things, start worshipping nature directly, instead of inventing an new entity behind nature.) So let's say God drives all natural laws, Then true books of God representing laws of nature are written by Einstein, Newton and Abdus Salam. Quran and Bible are outdated books... Gita was outdated even 2000 years back... Instead of teaching our children the meanings of Kalima, Surah or anything similar, we should be more interested in teaching them relativity, evolution and weak nuclear forces which are true representation of the laws of nature..
Start was excellent... Explains the beauty of Nature...
But how come Maulvi and Kalima came into discussion...
If you like the basic natural instint of motherly love among animals, I think it is more appropriate to praise laws of nature... And Laws of Nature are genetic, particle physics, psychology etc...
When humans didn't understand these laws, they started worshipping them... Accepting the fact that these phenomenon were stronger than human capabilities... They used to worship snakes, monkeys.. And then mooons and stars... At the end, they decided to worship only one imaginary thing : God that controls all the phenomena of nature stronger than them... Hence, God became one single entity representging all those natural laws that were not yet uncovered by human beings...
Now Let's say, God is the one driving all laws of nature... (which is a useless assumption.. if you want to worship the most powerful things, start worshipping nature directly, instead of inventing an new entity behind nature.) So let's say God drives all natural laws, Then true books of God representing laws of nature are written by Einstein, Newton and Abdus Salam. Quran and Bible are outdated books... Gita was outdated even 2000 years back... Instead of teaching our children the meanings of Kalima, Surah or anything similar, we should be more interested in teaching them relativity, evolution and weak nuclear forces which are true representation of the laws of nature..
#25 Posted by Allah_taala on May 2, 2008 4:28:46 am
Re: # 22
Tahir says "I'd be spiritually marooned."
AS IF! LOL!!
Tahir says "I'd be spiritually marooned."
AS IF! LOL!!
#24 Posted by majumdar on May 2, 2008 4:26:55 am
Tahir,
(As His creation, I must agree with Him; no ifs or buts here.)
Certainly. But has He told you that he abhors atheists or is that your own conclusion? If first fine, but if it is the second and you are trying to impose your own views on God, then He may have something to tell you, no?
Regards
(As His creation, I must agree with Him; no ifs or buts here.)
Certainly. But has He told you that he abhors atheists or is that your own conclusion? If first fine, but if it is the second and you are trying to impose your own views on God, then He may have something to tell you, no?
Regards
#23 Posted by Allah_taala on May 2, 2008 4:22:06 am
Re: # 22
Did you not hear me the first time?
Donot call upon our wrath boy.
Your Lord
Did you not hear me the first time?
Donot call upon our wrath boy.
Your Lord
#22 Posted by tahir on May 2, 2008 4:18:48 am
Re: # 20
As His creation, I must agree with Him; no ifs or buts here.
But if were to listen to the voice of the devil (see # 21), I'd be spiritually marooned.
As His creation, I must agree with Him; no ifs or buts here.
But if were to listen to the voice of the devil (see # 21), I'd be spiritually marooned.
#21 Posted by Allah_taala on May 2, 2008 4:15:22 am
Re: # 19
Tahir what the fuck are you talking about?
Leave me out of this.
Tahir what the fuck are you talking about?
Leave me out of this.
#20 Posted by majumdar on May 2, 2008 4:11:47 am
Tahir sahib,
(I was convinced when I saw that God abhors this wicked Godlessness.)
Is there a possibility that God may disagree with you? Or do you believe in a God who agrees with you on (most) things?
Regards
(I was convinced when I saw that God abhors this wicked Godlessness.)
Is there a possibility that God may disagree with you? Or do you believe in a God who agrees with you on (most) things?
Regards
#19 Posted by tahir on May 2, 2008 3:58:55 am
Re: # 10
I was convinced when I saw that God abhors this wicked Godlessness. It is once again becoming fashionable. Believe in THE Creator, not what He created please.
Please!
PS: please...please...!
More PS: please...please....please...!
I was convinced when I saw that God abhors this wicked Godlessness. It is once again becoming fashionable. Believe in THE Creator, not what He created please.
Please!
PS: please...please...!
More PS: please...please....please...!
#18 Posted by zeemax on May 2, 2008 3:20:15 am
Haha ... Nadeem Saheb, the following iLog entry refers:
zeemax :Post of the month (Year?):
Posted: Apr 29, 2008
Post by sgb
@ laddu
dear laddu i am a simple and a common muslim girl
not a religious scholar
what i felt
i wrote it
but i am astonished
that u r trying very hard to prove me wrong
iam not asking u to change ur religion
Latest comments:
Posted by sgb on Wednesday April 30, 2008
what is this mr zeemax
any special reason behind it
dont try to "USE" my words
Posted by zeemax on Thursday May 1, 2008
sgb,
I was just admiring the simple and beautiful logic of your words. But actually they KNOW we're not trying to convert them. THEY're trying to convert US.
zeemax :Post of the month (Year?):
Posted: Apr 29, 2008
Post by sgb
@ laddu
dear laddu i am a simple and a common muslim girl
not a religious scholar
what i felt
i wrote it
but i am astonished
that u r trying very hard to prove me wrong
iam not asking u to change ur religion
Latest comments:
Posted by sgb on Wednesday April 30, 2008
what is this mr zeemax
any special reason behind it
dont try to "USE" my words
Posted by zeemax on Thursday May 1, 2008
sgb,
I was just admiring the simple and beautiful logic of your words. But actually they KNOW we're not trying to convert them. THEY're trying to convert US.
#17 Posted by jayp on May 2, 2008 1:54:50 am
"Being a Muslim means more than just offering prayers; it means emulating the life of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and conforming to the dictates of the Holy Quran, not in part or what suits us, but in its totality. And unless we understand the meaning of the Kalima, we don’t stand a chance of redeeming ourselves in this world or the world hereafter."
Nadeem, that is a very good point from an educated pakistani. So teh conclusion is that pakistan needs more religious education, welcome to more madrassas.
It is the so called educated people like you are the problem of pakistan, and it is people like you who support the hoodood and blasphemey laws in the name of religion and it is people like you who fund the madrassas.
Pathetic.
Nadeem, that is a very good point from an educated pakistani. So teh conclusion is that pakistan needs more religious education, welcome to more madrassas.
It is the so called educated people like you are the problem of pakistan, and it is people like you who support the hoodood and blasphemey laws in the name of religion and it is people like you who fund the madrassas.
Pathetic.
#16 Posted by nkg on May 2, 2008 12:04:34 am
Re: # 13
Laddu...
Hey bhagwan.....for solving every problem you want more Islam......
Ans: A nice Joke...
After consecutive five gold medals at teh Olympic event of rowing, USA team lost to Japan. US sports think tank started analysing the problem and thought of re-organising the team. In stead of 2 manager 8 workers, they have appointed 4 managers and 6 rower. Next time USA lost again. And after further analysis, they had changed the team composition to 6 managers and 4 rowers.Meanwhile Japan maintained a team of 10 workers...and the final outcome you can guess....
Laddu...
Hey bhagwan.....for solving every problem you want more Islam......
Ans: A nice Joke...
After consecutive five gold medals at teh Olympic event of rowing, USA team lost to Japan. US sports think tank started analysing the problem and thought of re-organising the team. In stead of 2 manager 8 workers, they have appointed 4 managers and 6 rower. Next time USA lost again. And after further analysis, they had changed the team composition to 6 managers and 4 rowers.Meanwhile Japan maintained a team of 10 workers...and the final outcome you can guess....
#15 Posted by guru on May 1, 2008 9:18:28 pm
Not really read, so may be out of context.
"
We lack faith, are devoid of the basic understanding of our religion and are millions of miles away from being a Muslim.
"
What, when you reached the destination? If I were you when I arrive, I would see whole universe one ... there is no I or you. Observer is same as what is being observed. There is no judgment, no complain, guilt, desire or anguish. In the beginning I might start to fake it till I get it. So, Don't Worry be Happy!
When we drop the book, we might be able to surrender better. Also on this journey it's good to travel lite. The book is unnecessary baggage.
"
We lack faith, are devoid of the basic understanding of our religion and are millions of miles away from being a Muslim.
"
What, when you reached the destination? If I were you when I arrive, I would see whole universe one ... there is no I or you. Observer is same as what is being observed. There is no judgment, no complain, guilt, desire or anguish. In the beginning I might start to fake it till I get it. So, Don't Worry be Happy!
When we drop the book, we might be able to surrender better. Also on this journey it's good to travel lite. The book is unnecessary baggage.
#14 Posted by Kamath on May 1, 2008 6:44:39 pm
Akram: I said in my earler post, I said,"....It is one great tragedy that most Muslims are brought upon the belief that there is else in the world to know or learn from - other than Quran, Hadithys and Prophet Mohammad. This has been going on for the past 1400 years.,.....
I meant to say,".......It is one great tragedy that most Muslims are brought upon the belief that there is NOTHING else in the world to know or learn from - other than Quran, Hadiths and Prophet Mohammad. This has been going on for the past 1400 years....". Sorry for the oversight.
Kamath
I meant to say,".......It is one great tragedy that most Muslims are brought upon the belief that there is NOTHING else in the world to know or learn from - other than Quran, Hadiths and Prophet Mohammad. This has been going on for the past 1400 years....". Sorry for the oversight.
Kamath
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