The Power of Faith

In Qurran Allah says to RASOOL(SAWW),they accept Islam but not Eman(Faith),Faith could not enter into their heart even RASOOL(SAWW) preach them because their hearts are sealed.

Majority of people had not accept Eman(Faith) even preach of RASOOL ALLAH(SAWW), this is fact all the TIME.

First go and ask ur mullah what is difference between ISLAM and EMAN.

Carefully written -- I think the youth is also 'bored' with Islam. I knew I was/am. We sing and sing and sing and not trained to enjoy the song it is that we sing...you're right -- but 'follow it in its entirety' -- why does it have to be restrictive, why not give the youth, as well as people your age, the freedom to express in any language -- the languages of Art can also perform the services of a church. I believe this. I plan to live it. What other proof can I give?
In the nearest language, it always works.

Its sad that articles like these have to turn into issues between Atheists and those who do believe in a God. Regarding to Islam and the situation Muslims are in these days your article is quite true, we grew up recting the Quran but never bothered studying it like all those fancy and complex courses like Physics and Accounting and Economics and what not.
plus there is no such thing as "Evolution" coz if it were it wouldnt be called "THEORY of Evolution" scientist would now call it "FACTS of evolution" but its still unproven misconception.
May all of us get Divine guidance InshaAllah

Attention all anti-Islam psychos,

Please read my comments (for the likes of you) at http://www.chowk.com/gallery/913/44878

Now go perish in your rage!

Re: # 154
Sie Idiot, Summen weg und Verfolgung nach Ihrem Naris in den Saris. Sie pathetischer Abschaum.

Re: # 153

izuber,

WE are tired so fuck off!

Did WE not say that to them before Jibril?

Re: # 152
You will get a timely response for "attempting" to be an impostor, inshaAllah. You may not like it and go crying but it may be too late to make a U-turn for you or your Ayesha Ahmed.
All I can do is pray that you and your accomplices are directed towards the right path by Allah SWT as HE is the only one who can guide misguided ones and save them from becoming astray, subject to their own sincerity towards finding the path to truth and following it.

Re: # 151

izuber,tahir,nadeem,zeemax,ana,majumdar,akcheema,taurean,guru and all the other loosers not mentioned by name.

This woman Ayesha Ahmed keeps hassling me. This is what she writes now.

A Complaint to Allah
by Ayesha Ahmed



Allah, you did not practice what you preached. You said, Mo is dearest to me, he is best of creation, he is the top ranked prophet, his mother tongue Arabic will be the language of heaven, he can intercede on judgment day, Iman is not complete unless he is accepted as your rasool. You, and him are mentioned together in quran hundreds of times like you two are equal partners. You and all your angels even sent salam to him. You wrote in the Quran obey me and my apostle, love me and my apostle, follow me and my apostle, listen to me and me my apostle. You left no doubt that he was way higher than all other prophets. He led the prayer of all the prophets in the Meraj night at Jerusalem. Only he could ascend to the 7th heaven to meet you whereas even Jibraeel, the messenger, had to stay back at the 6th heaven. However I personally feel that it was more of lip service than anything else. Actions speak louder than words. You did not deliver what you promised. Let us examine what you really did for my beloved (and your beloved) Mo in comparison to what you did for other prophets.

You gave Noah a life of 950 years, you gave Mo only 63 years. What a shame. Even Ibn Afak, an infidel Jew lived to be 120 and died only when Mo had him assassinated.

You made Adam 60 cunits (30 meters) tall but you made Mo less than six feet. Even many infidel 7 feet tall basket ball players dwarf the greatest prophet

You made Yousuf so handsome that even his boss's wife chased him around . As far as Mo is concerned, he was the one doing the chasing. Many women even shunned him. As a matter of fact every time he came to Juavaria, his gorgeous captured-women-turned-wife for a quickie, she would stand up and start praying namaz to avoid him (she was known to pray for hours until horny Mo had to go next door to another wife to fulfill his desire). Once he proposed to have sex with a noble woman, she refused and prayed for protection from Allah, how insulting for an apostle. Many of his marriages could not be consummated (perhaps because the young girls given in marriage by fathers probably started crying when they saw the naked old man).

You gave Jesus the power to make dead people live, give back parents to orphans and husbands to widows. The only power you gave Mo was to make live people dead, take away parents from children and husbands from wives which any common criminal can do.

You gave Sulaiman power to control Jinns who used to bring him treasures from the bottom of the sea. Mo had to rely on himself and his cronies to acquire wealth by looting and pillaging.

You saved Ibrahim's son Ismail when he was trying to behead him after a bad dream by replacing his son with a ram. You did no such saving when Mo's sons were dying in infancy.

When Younus prayed from inside the stomach of a large fish you listened and saved his life. When Mo prayed from the lap of Ayesha you did not listen, and let him die.

You gave long lives to children of Dawood and Yaqoob. Mo had to bury six of his seven children who died young . The 7th (Fatima) died 2 months after his death before reaching 20.

You yourself came down to earth to meet Moses. Mo was escorted by Jibraeel on the back of a winged horse and travel billions of miles to see you ( I bet he had a very sore behind after the trip). Could you not come down yourself for your best man.

You gave real miracles to all prophets. Ibrahim could convert burning fire into a garden. Moses could convert his staff into a snake, walk through an ocean, give life to a dead cow. Jesus could cure the sick, give eyes to the blind, give life to the dead, make a clay bird fly, talk right after birth. Noah could build an arc to carry millions of animals. Sulaiman could communicate with jinns and animals. All of them had something to show except Mo. When Mo asked for a miracle you gave a run around and said Quran is your miracle. Some miracle, a hodgepodge of silly fables and a collection of misinformation. A book which says Sun sets in muddy spring, stars are missiles to attack jinns, Moon is a lamp, Sun goes around the Earth, mountains are pegs and sky is in seven solid layers. Even kids are laughing at his miracle.

You gave Sulaiman mastery of all the tongues of animal kingdom. Mo could not even read or write his own mother tongue.

You gave many prophets the ability to cure (Ayub could cure himself by prayer). When sick people came to them they gave them health. When sick people came to Mo , he gave them camel urine (no wonder some of them went berserk after drinking fresh camel urine and committed murders). He could not cure even his own sons whom he desired and loved dearly, all three died in infancy.

You sent ababil birds to defeat an army on elephants to protect your own house Kaaba. No ababils showed up when Mo's house in Madina was attacked three times. He almost got killed once.

Sulaiman was helped by superhuman invisible help in his wars. No such help for Mo. Yes he won many wars but It was the lure of booty, captured women and the 72 perpetually virgin houris in heaven for martyrs which made his soldiers fight and win, not your ababil birds or the thousands of angels which were promised but never showed up.

You were sending Jibraeel for every little information, even to show how to wipe asses, why didn't you send him to warn Mo against eating the poisoned meat which pained him so much and eventually took his life?

In view of the above facts, can you still say you were fair to Mo.

Re: # 36
Based on the instant access the electronic media is capacitated with massive publishing of views by anyone and anywhere in the world, although some countries who find it offensive filter out such sites.
Taking this in to account I humbly suggest to ignore such published thoughts by some like Ibn Warraq as paying undue attention to this or similar content is a win win situation for those who are out there to (1) gain exposure on an even major scale (2) to put hurdles in the way of those who are seeking proper advice.
If one does not like such content it is best to bury it in the grave it is sitting in rather than to pick on it and discuss it and lose your valuable time and effort.
The best you can do is to say a prayer for such people that, Allah SWT bless them with appropriate vision, and, block their negative attempts on our deen.
To each is their own and like it has is widely recognized only Allah SWT can provide guidance to those who are misguided and astray.
Being born in a Muslim family does not automatically qualify one to be a Muslim and it is this misconception based upon which numerous people who consider themselves as Muslims due to having born in a Muslim household but remaining illiterate on the basic teachings of Islam therefore they act ignorantly.
Being drawn in to such ignorant wars is only a mere loss of time and effort of those who believe.
La ikraha fi deen: there is no compulsion in religion (and, everyone is responsible and accountable to Allah SWT for their misrepresetnations and actions, if you are able to distinguish between right and wrong and good and bad and able to practice that for yourself that is enough).
With regards to the rhetorical term "fundamentalist or fundamentalism" those who utter these dont even know what they are talking about, Islam is a religion based on certain fundamentals and as such it automatically qualifies it's believers as "fundamentalists", and does not provoke any concern for me at least since I believe that without believing in the fundamentals of Islam and practicing those I am not a Muslim..(period).
Philosophy is known to use logic while a using a combination of the two, some so-called intellects have also attempted to prove their theory of (nauz-o-billah) non-existence of the divine authority, the Almight God., therefore one who has a belief and iman a faith in the existence of Allah SWT does not need to become entangled in such rhetorical thoughts as once again it is no more than a waste of time and effort.
One with faith should remain sincere to their belief and do good and not harm others, this is sufficient for a good Muslim while maintaining a hate for such ignorant acts within one's heart and mind is sufficient.

Re: # 146
6:19 Say: "What thing is most weighty in evidence?" Say: "(Allah) is witness between me and you; This Qur'an hath been revealed to me by inspiration, that I may warn you and all whom it reaches. Can ye possibly bear witness that besides Allah there is another Allah." Say: "Nay! I cannot bear witness!" Say: "But in truth He is the one Allah, and I truly am innocent of (your blasphemy of) joining others with Him."

Re: # 146
Because my God has already revealed all that HE wanted us humans to know and learn from has been revealed in form of the most noble scripture, the Quran-e-Hakeem and my God would not like to be sending messages as stupid as yours with an adopted nick as ignorant as yours, as such I find myself unable to glorify you more than you deserve and your appropriate title as such is Kalb ibn-e-kalb, ibn-e-kalb specially because your elders who failed to educate you on this subject have to be from no more than the genetics you are composed of. Now stop barking.

Re: # 147

28:80 But those who had been granted (true) knowledge said: "Alas for you! The reward of Allah (in the Hereafter) is best for those who believe and work righteousness: but this none shall attain, save those who steadfastly persevere (in good)."

2:153 O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.

I can only suggest that it is wise to skip any bolders in the way instead of stumbling over such hurdles because all such hurdles do is deviate you from your intended path and destination, I would not even dignify an ignorant individual with a response since they are no more that attention seekers like those known for attention deficit disorders.

Re: # 143
Zuber sahib,

Thanks for the sincere effort. Mr. I-write-therefore-I-am of University of Nebraska will never understand unless he controls his American jinn.

Please read #141 carefully to see what went wrong and where. May Allah's wrath be on the those who act stubbornly and twist my well-meaning words.

There are plenty who don't like what criticism and advice the Book offers to mankind, so what are my words worth in this Grand scheme?

As-Salaamu alaikom.

Re: # 145

izuber,

Why are calling your God a dog and dog's son and so on?
Didn't you know "Qul HuAllah-u-ahad, Allah-us-samad. Lam yalid walam yulad. Walam yakullahu kufuwan ahah?

#144
inta kalb ibn ul kalb ibn ul kalb yakhrib baitak

Re: # 143

izuber, Tahir & Nadeem,

Can you all FUCK OFF now.

I want some rest.

Re: # 138
Tahir sahib & Nadeem sahib
My only urge, my only wish that two brothers although equipped with different perceptions or even with two different approaches to the one perception should not come apart and untie from the knot/the rope that ties us together as one, only because we perceive the same destination yet with a different perception of the route, or, the hurdles that each of us visualizes differently or may overlook certain ones.

3:103 And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favor on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided. Imagine what a big loser we all come out to be if we magnify or amplify on variations of approach or difference in selecting the routes to the same destination.

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 238:
Narrated 'Umar:
I heard the Prophet saying, "The reward of deeds depends on the intentions, so whoever emigrated for the worldly benefits or to marry a woman, his emigration was for that for which he emigrated, but whoever emigrated for the Sake of Allah and His Apostle, his emigration is for Allah and His Apostle."



Volume 9, Book 93, Number 518:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "When Allah had finished His creation, He wrote over his Throne: 'My Mercy preceded My Anger.' "


Al-Baqara (The Cow)
2:175 It is they who take error in exchange for guidance, and suffering in exchange for forgiveness: yet how little do they seem to fear the fire!


To conclude it is my wish that since it may not be practically possible at least virtually as two brothers forgive each other for what may have bothered each of you and say a whole hearted salam on each other only to please Allah SWT since you both appear to be sincere in your approach towards the one & same destination to seek the pleasure of Allah SWT as I pray for all of us, May Allah SWT forgive us for our shortcomings and shortfalls and help us hold HIS rope securely, ameen.
I hope that you will exercise with the appropriate spirits and make up to each other.

Re: # 139
Your profile: "I write when I am angry and that is the reason it is junk most of the time...but some editors publish it anyway...what can I say.."

Please don't; you've said enough to last us a lifetime. Only if CHOWK editors could speak and EDIT....

Re: # 140
Mr.Stuka,

I'm sure this is not your real name; real names are very important to real people.

I hate to disappoint you but there's no such thing as a Muslim Brahmin or Mullah-ism in Islam. Pandit, padri, peer are OUT! Your fears are, hence, just fears.

Read #3 and follow through. I'm sure you haven't missed #139 from our 'sponosor'.

Show me where I used the kind of CHOWK language this 'thing' has stooped to using. Mr. Zeemax joked with this 'thing' and the 'thing' attacked me! And now you too Brute-US?

Warm summer regards.

PS: this place is about IDENTITIES....

Mr. Tahir:

There a re a couple of things:

1. Excessive religiosity leads to arrogance, which leads to downfall. That is what happened with the Brahmins of Hinduism. Today Non Brahmin Hindus like me kick Brahmins in the arse for their excessive arrogance and monopolization of the faith which at its core is egalitarian.

2. You are a Muslim "Brahmin". You are so full of arrogance about your own faith that you are filled with self righteousness. A reflective person has written an article and you are speaking down to him..a very Brahmin tendency my friend. Be careful you and your Mullahs do not end up with the same fate as the Brahmins of Hinduism who have been reduced to begging in the street.

Re:135
And Tahir was looking for a turncoat..how so infantile from a man of so much self-proclaimed intellect!!!

Re: # 137

'Sahib' is fine, I-Zuber sahib. I wonder why this slip at the keyboard!

Until we meet again.

Re: # 135
Dear Tahir sahib/sahiba
My approach is only to recognize the message while the messenger is not the subject of my comments/response or discussion.
In the meantime I feel that it takes a lot of guts to gather and compose such thoughts specially as they represent my mindset as well. I hope you will overlook the oversights and reconsider with regards to this matter.
Thanks & best regards.

The Prayer of Taif -- The Prophet's Response to Ridicule and Abuse

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

While many Muslims once again fall into the reactionary trap set for them and confirm the thesis of the offending by exploding in rage and violence, we would do well to reflect upon the Prophet's supplication in Taif. This is the dua he recited with shoes full of blood, wounds all over his body and after having been insulted, ridiculed and abused by the people of Taif to whom he had taken recourse seeking a place of refuge. Moreover, this occurs after three years of suffering a boycott at the hands of the Quraysh as a result of which Muslims were reduced to eating grass and leaves off of trees.

The Prophet(SAW) as he walks out of Taif:

"O Allah! I complain to You of my weakness, my scarcity of resources and the humiliation I have been subjected to by the people. O Most Merciful of those who are merciful. O Lord of the weak and my Lord too. To whom have you entrusted me?

To a distant person who receives me with hostility? Or to an enemy to whom you have granted authority over my affair? So long as You are not angry with me, I do not care. Your favor is of a more expansive relief to me. I seek refuge in the light of Your Face by which all darkness is dispelled and every affair of this world and the next is set right, lest Your anger or Your displeasure descends upon me. I desire Your pleasure and satisfaction until You are pleased.

There is no power and no might except by You."

If those who claim to love the Prophet (PBUH) so much that they are willing to infringe upon prophetic conduct with their blind rage and fury would reflect upon this prayer, it would be a guiding light for them and a clear instruction as to how a Muslim should respond to our current situation. It is also the only salve by which troubled hearts and souls will find peace. It will not be found on pickets and demonstrations -- not that these may not be useful in making clear our reverence for the sacred and the divine and our indignation at the injustice and double standards of the European press.

In my jum'ah khutbah today [editor: given on February 3, 2006], I spoke on this prayer and while there were some whose hearts and eyes were cooled by it, it was obvious to me that there were many who were so caught up in anger that they could not hear.

For whom does the Prophet's saying: 'Islam is good character' mean anything anymore?

Are we to revert to pre-Islamic tribal norms of vengeance and retribution rather than see this as an opportunity to turn hearts by sharing the example of our beloved Prophet's centeredness and compassion in the face of hate and enmity with those whose hearts are open?

Are we to fall into the major sin of despair-fueled violence rather than maintain hope as the Prophet (PBUH) did when the angel of the mountains met him outside Ta'if following his supplication and offered to cause the mountains surrounding Taif to crumble over the town and obliterate it to which the Prophet (PBUH) replied: 'No, I hope that these people will one day come to worship only Allah and Him alone'?

Unless we have the centeredness and the Allah-consciousness of the Prophet (PBUH) by which every event whether favorable or unfavorable (in material terms) offers us the opportunity of strengthening our relationship with Allah, we will continue to be the victim of every ruse and ploy.

Rather than reacting with violence and rage we should intensify our work to share the beautiful and merciful message of the Deen especially now that the Prophet (PBUH) is headline news. Let the Prophet's prayer of Taif be printed in European newspapers as the example of his supreme magnanimity and patience.

Violence, death threats and fury only betray a lack of trust in the power and light of the sacred which is illustrated in the Prophet's experience in the garden outside Taif when persons who overheard his prayer were moved by it to come to Islam. Moreover, on the way back to Mecca after this experience, many jinn who happened to hear the Prophet's recitation of the Qur'an in his night prayer also came to Islam. And not long thereafter the Prophet (PBUH) was conveyed on his night journey and ascent to heaven. Verily with difficulty comes ease.

Yet with the announcement by 'eminent' Muslim scholars of a 'Day of Outrage', I fear we have become nothing but saboteurs. Why not a Day of Remembrance of the Prophet, Why not a Day of Tremendous Prophetic Character? Why not a Day of the Prayer of Taif?

Re: # 133
Mr. Zuber,
I suggest you go back and read #3 and follow the thread upto #108. Perhaps then you would wish to withdraw your appreciation for THIS!

I have withdrawn mine, and left this case for God to judge; indeed He is the best of judges.

Regards.

6:3 Wahuwa Allahu fee alssamawati wafee alardi yaAAlamu sirrakum wajahrakum wayaAAlamu ma taksiboon

6:3 And He is Allah in the heavens and on earth. He knoweth what ye hide, and what ye reveal, and He knoweth the (recompense) which ye earn (by your deeds).

SubhanAllah Nadeem Sahib
All praise is due to Allah SWT the Almighty the Rehman & Rahim most merciful.
May Allah bless you with more power in your pen and thoughts, and bless you for furthering the word from which most of us incidental Muslims have gone further apart in practice (incidental, only because we were born in a Muslim household, were given a name accordingly & were told that you are a muslim).
Most of us who have learned to utter the Kalima only do it to qualify ourselves as a muslim, but what good is a building with a weak or no foundation. The level of faith (Taqwa)is just about non-existent in most of us since we never go to discover what a treasure the holy scripture holds within, a majority if not all don't even know that it is a complete code of life which imparts on every segment of human life and in the logical way the human nature happens to be. Now we also have a growing number of people who appear to even transgress to the extent that they refer to anyone who attempts to abide and practice according to the guidance and rules of the book to be "orthodox" or mentally backward. How sad it is that in todays world those who consider and pronounce themselves to be Muslim seem to be a self destructive society since all they seem to care about is a name they carry when pronouncing themselves to be from the faith.
It is Allah SWT's word that till there is one single practicing Muslim in this world the final hour will not come.
We the humans are no more than a maggot in comparison to the Almighty yet we take such pride even when we achieve in the slightest proportion.
We fail to recognize all that we see around us in our daily lives as to who has created all these amenities in this world that we admire and enjoy, imagine the superficial shortage of food grains which is caused by greedy practices of some in today's world and what if it happens to be a famine, who will we turn to then?
Having encountered literal death some 3 years ago due to an ailment that takes no more than 3 days to finalize the journey from this world, I cant thank Allah SWT for his mercy and kindness having miraculously saved me by placing me under the care of those whom he has blessed with "shifa" here I sit exactly 3 years later reading your beautiful article as I listen to the Rahmah pouring from the sky, all I can say is:
55:49 Fabiayyi alai rabbikuma tukazziban
55:49 Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny
May Allah SWT bless you and give you more strength to continue to enlighten those who may be waiting for a knock on the door and with Allah SWT's blessing revert to and consult the scripture, ameen, summa ameen.

Khaak kay dhair main shoola hay na chigari...

There is nothing in THAT great name, believe me!

Re: # 118
Anybody else might say, "I'd like to suck your blood" but I'll leave you alone glode-writer and let others take you on.

Horrible knowing you....

no explanation necessary. i've been here longer than you, remember?

Re: # 128; ana bibi

I don't mind that (you only have to go to my IP - I have not hidden anything, unlike some); only don't want to put my family under any "undue risk", given the mentality of the mindless filth that roams these corners.......

akcheema:

i did understand that. :) thank you. i just didn't want to ask any further, personal information and all thaaaat. . .

Re: # 123; ana bibi

my reply was directed towards the second part of your question, "Are you related to any of the Cheemas in Lahore?"

Cheers

ana,

LoL 'Haseena Foundation' ... my family lived in the next lane (thumbs up)!

cheema:

okay, won't ask any further. thanks. :)

Re: # 123; ana bibi

Quite possibly......

akcheema: just in case you read this. your last name reminds me of one of my favorite teachers in what used to be called "Haseena Foundation". (Esena) Are you related to any of the Cheemas in Lahore?

Just curious

nadeemakr,

Yeah globe and not glode. Understood.

Now, #117 Posted by nadeemakr: Why is it that evertime an article is posted on religion the NRP are more vocal than the people who choose to stay back and bear the brunt :)-

Abey Chtya do you think I'm an NRP?

Oops globe and not glode, my bad!

Oops globe and not glode, my bad!

Oops globe and not glode, my bad!

#116 and you pretend to be a writer

Tahir Mian: With over 200 publications around the glode I need not to prove to anyone that I am not a writer... so please go suck an egg, unless you like something else

Why is it that evertime an article is posted on religion the NRP are more vocal than the people who choose to stay back and bear the brunt :)-

I agree with Stuka, the "brothers' should have sided with me, but then a post is post and that carries weight, in terms of redeeming your credibility even if you are YLH!!! ;)-

I don't care about the so called hindus who have posted on this article cuz I don't recognize any one of them, for me they are newbies and as you must know I don't care much about the newbies. If Dost Mittar had posted I would have taken his comments in stride but these nobodies mean nothing to me!

Re: # 108
"Dear Morons, i.e. Zeemax and Tahir"

..and you pretend to be a writer?

As the Prophet used to say to insults like these: wa-laikum.

Perish in your rage now...

Re: # 3

[Good effort here Mr. Nadeem.

Akram, your surname appears in 96:3 of the Holy Qur'an, the very first revelations. I cannot address you as AKRAM as it means 'the Most Bountiful One'. I'm sure you'll understand me.]

There is never a dull moment here, is there?

My first name is AKRAM; I wonder what this holy book has to say about that?!

I won't complain if I don't get 'addressed' by the name-obsessed ignoramuses here either

Reading these interacts, there seems to be some discussion of about the past heroic glories of historical Islamic civilisations and their achievements. I would like to point out that those civilisations had nothing to do whatsoever with this pathetic illiterate post-wahabi excrement that these interactors are trying so desperately to justify.

#112 Posted by stuka,

Fair question.

It's because this idiot couldn't provide a simple answer to his five year old child.

Here's what I get from this article..A Muslim writes about his own personal crisis of faith. He is then beaten up by assorted Hindus, "Murtids" and Muslims. If anthing, a Hindu says he would like Islam to flourish under an Indianized cultural domain..which I personally think is fine..but the so called "Muslims" ..instead of providing empathy or understand provide ridicule. Where is the compassion?

... though he could have meant makr-o-fareb. You will have to ask him. Both are equally apt.

#108 Posted by nadeemakr,

Yaar idiot, you still didn't get it I guess. Look below:

"Nadeem mukar gaya"

Get it now?

Though I would personally prefer the description of nadeem-makrooh.

#96 Posted by Pulchritude on May 5, 2008 12:40:26 pm
i really liked ur article...keep it up!

Thank you sir, there is always a light at the end of the tunnel!

Dear Morons, i.e. Zeemax and Tahir, It is Nadeemakr and not Nadeemmakr...so much for your I.Q you embarass a cucumber for having a higher I.Q and E.Q than yours!

To Nadeem Akram:
When your holy prophet have not lived proper civilised life, how do you expect common Pakistani will lead good life?
Faith does not yield power. Faith is symbol of weakness and is supposed to be used as last resort.When people are disabled, they need to resort to faith (during infancy and old age)...
If somebody tries to prevent you from arguing, then he is weak. If Islam is so strong and good, why you need to fight so many Jihads and resort to suicide bombing, blashphemy law etc. to defend?
According to TI, Chad(Africa), Bangladesh, Nigeria,Sudan, Somalia are one of the most corrupt states on this planet.And unfortunately these are muslim majority and islamic states. Do you think Islam is not taught properly in all these states too?
On the contrary, north european countries like Sweden, Norway, Denmark is doing well...
Regarding moral values, it is required to sustain society and evolved over time. This planet does not need any fake claim by mediaval arab (as word of God's messanger) to list it or approve it...

#105 Posted by akcheema,

So? If Afghan camel drivers helped open up Central Australia (desert), what's that got to with Islam anymore than the Chinese building US Railroads had to do with Taoism?

To "but am rather busy with work, family, sports and other normal persuits", I will suitably add jumping about on hind-legs.

Re: # 103

It was only a short reference some weeks ago. If I find it easily, will let you know

It was in relation to Afghan camel drivers helping open up Central Australia (desert); it was a positive rather than negative if it helps

May be you should try challenging the murtid BS; with substance rather than hiding behind this 'faith BS' and the god person you keep talking about.. sory I don't think you can

I am over talking to you and will not address/provoke you directly; you are not worth my time. I had some spare time before but am rather busy with work, family, sports and other normal persuits

Quite happy to contribute on now and again basis; I enjoy interacting with a lot of people here including Majumdar sahib

Zee sahib/Cheema sahib,

It would be a pleasure to see my favourite Momin and favourite murtid in action at the same time.

Regards

#100 Posted by akcheema,

As for the "ghan" thing, I already asked Zee this to which I had no reply.

When did you ask this? I must have missed it because I seldom read all through your posts because they're the usual murtid BS repeated like a broken record.

However grateful if you could reproduce it and I will try my best to answer!

Cheema sahib,

(avoid talking about our own deficits!)

I dont think resident Indian or Paki chowkies have ever claimed that their society was perfect.

Indians and Pakis leave their country mainly to improve their standard of living and to access better opportunity abroad. There is nothing wrong with that. Maybe if I get such an opportunity I will take that.

Regards

Cheema sahib,

(avoid talking about our own deficits!)

I dont think resident Indian or Paki chowkies have ever claimed that their society was perfect.

Indians and Pakis leave their country mainly to improve their standard of living and to access better opportunity abroad. There is nothing wrong with that. Maybe if I get such an opportunity I will take that.

Regards

Re: # 98; majumdar bhai,

I don't think you or a lot of others are fair in this comparison. To me, there is no comparison. We have had people here talking about how much of a grind life is in the west; it never leaves the surface be it Zee, masadi sahib or anyone else.

When someone tries to make a practicle comparison between the two, the 'ad-hominem' of "they have this vice too" starts to avoid talking about our own deficits!

Let's just think rationally from what Khan sahib has said; at the end of the day, I could live in Pakistan just the same with cheaper 'nauker chaakers' and live the "colonial dream" of the brown man that all these so-called champions of social justice proclaim but live and enjoy just the same! Why don't you ask them? and whilst you are at it, ask them how the poor mazaaras and others of similar class are treated in the Islamic Republic! Then look around your own backyard too. It is easy to be the all sympathetic socialist/Islamist/Koranist or any other 'ist', truth is the reality on the ground is very different indeed!

All these so-called upper middle class "english medium types" as I used to call them when I first went to Pakistan in my youth, have nothing in common with more than 90% of their own populations that they claim to represent. They use the language of their 'colonial masters', which is taught in Pakistan, not as an important international language, but as a legacy to 'distinguish'; when these self-riteous make absurd claims, makes my blood boil.

I choose to live in the west for reasons very similar to Khan sahib's.As for the "ghan" thing, I already asked Zee this to which I had no reply.

Re: # 98

Majumdar,

I know Australia is materialistic too. But still the society is not that polarised into haves and have nots (yes,things are changing for the worse) but it is still a very laid back society contrary to what people think... I know people from teh US who are here, even from UK.. they say Australia is so laid back.. What I am trying to say is that i am not stuck in teh social structures of my home country where I needed to keep up with people of my social status... Here in Australia you can assume any persona you want!!

regarding Pathan Camel Drivers.. this is true... check this out...... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ghans

Khan sahib,

(I was stuck in a treadmill of earning more)

Aussies are not struck in a treadmill to keep earning more?

(intensely creeping materialism in our society!!!)

No materialism in Oz???

(and putting up with "the jonesses"...)

No keeping up with the Joneses in Oz???

(Pathans from NWFP went to Australia in 1800s as camel drivers...)

(LOL) Arjun mian will die laughing when he reads this!!!

Regards

Re: # 45

Dear Tahir,

First of all, let me clarify that I dont feel 'vexed' at all for being far away from my countrymen (and Women!)... I like to meet a variety of people from a diversity of nationalities including Pakistanis (if you take offense to my rather lighthearted use of the word Pakiland). I think there is wisdom in diversity.

I have not 'left' Pakistan, technically. But even if i decide to leave, it is not going to be for economic reasons. I am not a 'taxi driving' half literate refugee....it is for the reasons of freedom to choose how I behave and think that i have come here... now do not get into the trap of accusing me that I can choose anything! I wanted to 'liberate' myself from teh daily grind of paying huge utility bills (with no electricity and no gas!!!), for paying bribes just to get small things done (like renewing my driving licence etc!!) I wanted to release my brain for some time so that I can read, contemplate and enjoy the small things in life.... ask fundamental questions of life and try to find answers.. At home in Pakistan I could not do that.. I was stuck in a treadmill of earning more to keep up with teh inflation and (intensely creeping materialism in our society!!!)... stuck with lots of useless social obligations and putting up with "the jonesses"... and backbiting/backstabbing etc... I am in an environment where intellectual freedom and the creativity is valued (atleast for now!!)... Tell me Tahir Sahib.... where do you get opportunities to sin MORE... in Pakistan or in Australia... In Pakistan you have to atleast lie/bribe all the time to get things done... in majority of the cases/ on the average you dont have to do that in Western countries...


Regarding how I represent Pakistan here in Australia... you cannnot imagine how hurt I am on seeing Pakistan's reputation sullied over teh last few years.. teh way we are being associated with terrorism, underdevelopment (failed state!!) etc etc....This is especially so when you are compared with Indians here... and how Indian brand rubs off the common Indian expatriate here.... But I always show the good side of the picture of Pakistan.. for example Pathans from NWFP and Afghanistan went to Australia in 1800s as camel drivers... they played a major part in developing teh resources and exploring Australia... they were called Ghans... I am doing research on this illustrious history of ours.. and Australian recognise that too.

Regarding access to material..... you can access BUT you cannot discuss.... go ahead discuss the issues (even the ones you bring up on Chowk) in your gatherings (particularly institutional gatherings). Can you do that?

By the way...being strong and being upright has got nothing to do with religion. Strength does not come from dogmatism. It is a psychological illusion.


Warm Regards

T Khan

i really liked ur article...keep it up!

Arabs might have translated some Indian knowledge but some might be little dense for them to translate.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070813091457.htm

Tah ir, are you man or woman? If woman, sorry if I uttered any profanities, and do not mean to abuse Islam or its prophet. Ideally I would like Islam also to flourish in India but by becoming Indian, by dropping Arabic language, by replacing Adam and Eve by local pandu and Chameli, by Tahir becoming Sachin.

#89. this is rich coming from folks who can play "Why us?" and "who did this to us?"...Thanks for playing, we have a lovely parting gift from Suicidebelts-r-us (made for jihadis...by Jihadis) enjoy!!!

tahir aunty, I was saying, that jihadis are choots....and you were unbunching your purty green panties.

Re: # 89:
"Return to spinning your dream-wheel with immediate effect. The entire world has stolen from Indians, right? Are you demanding royalties from humanity?"

Eating fukatka royalty malida or becoming rentier state is what you guys do. Indians allowed persecuted Syrian Christians, Jews and Parsis to flourish in India. Islam and British Christianity tried to uproot Indianness from Indian soil. Christianity has turned around. Christian folks try to own their Indiannes. But Mohomedans need to learn a hard lesson. Bakiland will fall to Taliban in one year. Ameriki Bahadur will castricate Bakiland. With the bum/balls gone it will become a Somalia.

Bakis, give one example from your side of the border like this brave lady:
http://www.rediff.com/freedom/1111migr.htm

Re: # 86
Look what I said in #3 and see where it wound up?

THIS is the power of somebody else's faith.

Re: # 87
Return to spinning your dream-wheel with immediate effect. The entire world has stolen from Indians, right? Are you demanding royalties from humanity?

Do you wish to know what the Qur'an says about knowledge which is nobody's slave?

Stop worshipping your brain please.

PS: when will you turn sixteen?

The writer has written, interacted, and gone home for good (or bad).

C-Alpha, what were you saying about those who know their religion and struggle, being shaped like what you probably (I say, probably) did not emerge from at birth?

Write an article that makes me laugh.

Re: # 77: "don't show how poorly educated you are by attacking Islam. Nobody's asleep here."

I did not go to a madarassa. Education means brodening once cosciousness which gets reflected in focus, creativity ie inventions/patents/biz ideas and better understanding of oneself. How does Islam broden ones consciosness? In last 1K years what Mulims have invented?
http://spicyipindia.blogspot.com/2007/07/ancient-india-and-maths.html

http: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_school_of_astronomy_and_mathematics

"Wher e did Europe get its knowledge if not via translated Arabic texts of lost books?"

Why now in France they are rioting in ghettoes? Mind also that mid east was not homogeneous Arabic land as it appears today. Coptic Egyptians, Syrians, Kurds, Iraqis and Turks are very different people from Bedouin real Arabs. Whatever they passed to the wester European was stolen from Indians, which was not their creation. It makes sense the trader cannot be inventor or producer.

Pakis had head start in US and UK, but today going by per capita income and education Dharmic people are way ahead of Islamic subcontinental folks. Why? Something to do with Islmic culture? Something to do with the book and the prophet for profit pyramid scheme?

Look in the mirror, before you set out on Jihad!

... and I have provided an answer for the five year old's father which the hind-legged jumper didn't have for the poor child. He should thank me for that.

#84 Posted by CreateAlpha,

No. What I have proven is Jihad is sanctioned under UN Charter Article 51, unless anyone can prove otherwise.

Ok so now that is established that jihadis are choots..lets talk about this article.

#80 Posted by tahir,

Wow ... he doesn't even know what was being laughed at in #68. This is quite unbelievable. Limitation of Yahoo? Wow !!!

Re: # 75
"Your Edhi does not have guts to come to help Jagdeesh Kumars"

I can't possibly interact with you more than twice in a single day; it is forbidden to me.

Re: # 74
And you suggest what? What is your faith Mr. Dead-of-Winter?

Re: # 70
"don't know you and don't care to!"

Read #68 first.

Nadeem beta, you have amazing arrogance for a Muslim! Are you really one, or is this all what I referred to?

I have my own theories which when put to test, on this rocket-science site called CHWOK, invariably prove themselves sound.

Do watch this space for more.

Peace.

Re: # 77:
Quickly, "Dear fake guru,

You say "Why some one should believe in this cock & bull story?"

Okay, keep believing in your own C&B stories then; don't show how poorly educated you are by attacking Islam. Nobody's asleep here."

Showing your true colors. That is good. Dont bring mothers, bosses etc. I do not have but clients & customers are bosses.

We do not have any story to tell ...not of cocks or of bulls. You tried to tell me. Did I tell you. Did you visit link on Mrudula Sarabhai? People who do not have any thing to show in present or near past bring their fake ancestors from distant desert land. There is nothing to reason. Have you done donated money to Jagdeesh Kumar's family? Instead of your cock and bull stories speak by your actions. Dont give BS that Islam is all compassion, there is no compulsion in the faith etc. dsemographic numbers do not lie.

There is no such thing as moderate Muslim.

"Keep on dreaming economic elephant. Ants can sometimes kill elephants!"

Take all the faithful ants from India. Faith gives power and more faithfuls give more power.

Who is ignorant? I may be ignorant of cock & bull stories.

Re: # 68
"Haha brilliant. And to think hamidm has been nominated as the wittiest though your name was strongly suggested!"

Well Mr. Max,

The idea was to correct a fellow Muslim, not ridicule him.

Your liberal comments here could grace my own space elsewhere on this site. Look, even the A.D.L. repeatedly dropped by to interrogate and abuse me! And then there were other life-forms from Down-Underwear who made their presence known....

Success at last as a writer!

Regards.

Re: # 67
Dear fake guru,

You say "Why some one should believe in this cock & bull story?"

Okay, keep believing in your own C&B stories then; don't show how poorly educated you are by attacking Islam. Nobody's asleep here.

"May be for Abrahmic legion g..dus..."

Is this what your mata-ji taught you? Disrespect for those who try to reason with you? Poor boy guru...

"What have they given to the world in last 16 centuries..."

This shows what little you know of history. Where did Europe get its knowledge if not via translated Arabic texts of lost books?

"It's not hatred but demand for justice and making Bakis aware so they do not remain deluded. There is not much in common with Indians if your culture also becomes Islamic. But then your legion demands that so it's hopeless. What will work is only a big Danda."

Are you from some Hindu extremist group? I'm a moderate Muslim who feels like reporting your attacks to your boss, your mata-ji, and the entire neighbourhood. Guess what, for now I'll forgive your ignorance?

"Economic progress of India will remove this Abrahmic tumor esp the Islamic one. The day is nearing once oil is replaced as energy source."

Keep on dreaming economic elephant. Ants can sometimes kill elephants!

#72 Posted by CreateAlpha,

Thanks. It is Article 51 not 47. I quoted from memory. Note the bold letters:

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

Now again I ask Mr. Mukr my original question. What is Jihad anywhere in the world right now if not armed resistance exercising the "... inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against their State?

Of-course he is exempted from answering if he's jumping on hind-legs as Tahir Saheb very aptly put it.

Indian Civilization produces people like this. Show me one person on the other side of the border like this then and even now to protect Jagdeesh Kumars. That is why we say that these legions are just that "interesting legends."
http://www.rediff.com/freedom/1111migr.htm

Your Edhi does not have guts to come to help Jagdeesh Kumars. It seems more practical is complete swap of population. Pakis should accept not just Kashmiris but all Indian Muslims without asking for additional land. You should be happy that you got more faithfuls. More faithfuls means more power to you.

Although the images of giraffes and wolves are very lovely and all that, they are absolutely no basis to justify the promotion of belief in essentially dangerous nonsensical fantasies, which result in promoting total ignorance, the justification of the capitalist and beneficiary status-quos and illegal governments, the oppressing and mutilating of women, keeping populations totally illiterate, amputations and dismemberment and all that general foolishness which makes religious people so much less than what humans can be, amongst all the other fruits of organised religion.

Charlie, whilst I am tempted to react to your comments which are quite intelligent, I must refrain from doing so for reasons only known to me!

Zeemax, Article 47 of the UN charter doesn't allow for armed resistance against occupation.

#70 Posted by nadeemakr,

No no wait around a sec. Now tell me:

1) Does Artcle 47 of the UN Charter allow armed resistance against occupation or not.

2) If Jihad is not armed resistance, what is it?

Zeemax: Never had the pleasure of interacting with you, let us leave it like that!

Tahir Mian: It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that at Yahoo has limitations when it comes to choosing a nick..but then what would you know and btw don't know you and don't care to!!
Ciao

#43 Posted by nadeemakr

... when my five year old asks me why is someone killing a lot of people in the name of jihad, frankly my dearests, I have no answer!

Well, next time your five year old asks you this question, tell him/her 'Jihad' is permitted in Article 47 of the United Nations Charter.

I'm surprised you didn't have that answer even though being an expert as your article suggests!

#50 Posted by tahir,

NADEEMMAKR becomes Nadeem 'makr'. Please change this; it'll make me very happy.

Haha brilliant. And to think hamidm has been nominated as the wittiest though your name was strongly suggested!

Re: # 66: "Our common father! And Eve the common mother, my brother...
"

Why some one should believe in this cock & bull story? Why not local Dhondu & Chameli? May be for Abrahmic legion gandus... what have they given to the world in last 16 centuries (since Roman started using Jesus for their evil design) besides slavery, Ciphilis and destruction of indiginous culture? May be ancestors of Pishchya Yoni!

You do not know word shanti so pl do not use it. It's not hatred but demand for justice and making Bakis aware so they do not remain deluded. There is not much in common with Indians if your culture also becomes Islamic. But then your legion demands that so it's hopeless. What will work is only a big Danda.

It's useless to discuss. Economic progress of India will remove this Abrahmic tumor esp the Islamic one. The day is nearing once oil is replaced as energy source.

Re: # 61
"Who is this damned Adam?"

Our common father! And Eve the common mother, my brother...

Shaanti.
PS: hatred weighs you down completely.

A kangaroo says:

"I wonder if that means one can be a free-lance monotheist and do good without having to believe in mohammed? This question, of course, is purely rhetorical"

The trick is to ask rhetorical questions and confuse those already confused. Damn these door-mats of Greek philosophers!

Look at the filth these animals copy off the web! But they can never harm God's faith and those who believe in Him. They dig their own graves each day.

ATTENTION:

A kangaroo has blasphmed yet again and shown its true animal instinct jumping alone in down-underwear. These are its pearls of ignorance:

"Koran (I spell it advisedly), is an old, archaic, plagiarised, and poorly written mythological tell-tale of jewish prophets of old, conveniently adopted to become 'part of the CHOSEN club' by the 'underdogs' of the time; obviously pissed off at the fact that 'their cousins' had this STATUS that appeared EXCLUSIVE; they themselves, on the other hand, had descended from 'Hagar - the slave girl..."

Kangaroos of the hind-leg jump together. What is worse than the spiritually blind trying to sound like a scholar?

The more proof the animal finds, the greater its aversion to God, its rage and foaming at the mouth when His name and Words are mentioned.

Re: # 57
Axeman Q.,
Who sponsors all this conflict and for what purpose? Your chosen spanking-new Motherland of course!

Thought provoking, right?

Return to playing bridge this summer in Lahore.

Re: # 53
"Abramhmic religion makes god alien, separate from us. It destroys our culture. Asks us to disown our ancestors, our language our saints and even our leaders. Not only that it asks us to disown our names."

You have a choice Mr.Guru, don't accept Islam! And when you've decided that, please refrain from commenting about its 'destructive' influence on ancester and grave-worship.

It probably destroys you, but it works for all of us!

Shaanti.

"
I'm sorry you think this way. The Qur'an does NOT speak of Adam as a sinner who is on earth suffering a jail sentence! He was forgiven when he realised and repented. Now his descendants are supposed to make earth a peaceful and just place according to God's revealed Law. Satanic ideas ruin us and are a source of all of our sorrows. The evil force is the TEST that we must understand and pass!

So simple! Even Plato admitted that the purpose of the soul is to indulge in virtuous activity.
"

Who is this damned Adam? A book which refer to these alien creatures need not be accepted first, esp. from wolf in sheep clothing. India suffered because of wrong understanding of Buddha & Jaina, the strengthening of arm was neglected.

Now what did this creature Adam realized? What is this crap of repenting? Guilt & repenting is a heinous crime one does on himself. He ceases to be a human. It's just a step above Suicidal Consciousness. Truly Pishachya! No wonder such verbiage creates suicidal Jihadis.

If the followers of this legion of yours are true repenters, like this Adam guy, then when they realize there mistakes, for example, of the near past, following need to happen: Instead of crocodile repenting and crying, Bakis will pay in $s for Kargil, pay to BDs esp the Hindus of BDs who suffered the most for the their holocoust (majority of intellectuls brutally murdered on 25th March 71, Dhaka university were Hindus) and compensate for Mumbai blasts of 7/11/2006 and of 92-93. Actions would speak louder! Compensate to Jagdeesh Kumar's family. It's one thing to write eulogies for Nirmala Didi and completely different which needs integrity to do something concrete for Justice. This "wordy" legion is devoid of basic humanity or spirituality. A giant cruel pyramid scheme indeed!

Re: # 35

[SECTS are based on personalities, not religion. Hence when Orientalists use the term 'Muhammedan' for Muslims, they imply as if the Prophet invented it all! This is wrong.]

I wonder if that means one can be a free-lance monotheist and do good without having to believe in mohammed?

This question, of course, is purely rhetorical...

Re: # 58; Taureen

Here is that quote that I found on the net but details the predictable response one gets from the 'muslim believer' when one 'asks questions' that require some metabolic activity in one's brain cells!

[Dear brothers and sisters in islam:

We live in kuffar country and daily we have to face the infidels who criticize islam and our prophet, and who want to debate us. In an Islamic country if some one did that all we have to do is to announce loudly what he said and the rest is taken care of by an angry mob. The critic is lynched in no time. End of the story. However here we don't have that luxury as yet. Inshallah in forseeble future after we grow by conversions of morons and criminals in prisons, legal and illegal immigration and procreation we will, inshallah, become a majority and will not have to face this problem on daily basis. However, for the time being following is an approach all muslim brothers and sisters can use when faced with such a pest. Jazakallah Khair. Inshallah the vermin will steer clear of you in future.
1. A popular question is "why islam calls for death of Islamic critics and apostates". Insist that their info is false. Quote aya "to you your religion and to me my religion".

2. To answer "Islam spread with sword", say that it is a big lie spread by the jews and hindus and that quran clearly says " there is no compulsion in religion".

3. If some one quotes violent ayas from Koran, accuse him of quoting ayas in bits and pieces and cherry picking .

4. If he then quotes full ayas and ayas before and after, than insist that the translation is wrong.

5. If he brings ten different translations than say correct meanings can be understood only by reading Quran in Arabic.

6. If he happens to be well versed in Arabic language than insist that those ayas don't mean what they appear to mean as they have allegorical meanings.

7. If he is adamant, than say you cannot understand those ayas and it's context without reading hadith and sira.

8.. If he shows up with the hadiths and siras in hand and quotes the context of the violent ayas by referring to hadiths of prophet's rapes, robberies , assassinations and genocides then insist that "all hadiths and siras are heresay and are false, and only truth is in quran.

9. If he says Quran is a man made document and wants proof of it's divinity then refer to the sciences in Quran and the book written by Dr. Bucaile confirming the sciences in our holy book. You can also quote that Mahatama Gandhi read Quran daily and also spoke highly of it.

10. If he says that Bucaile was on Saudi payroll and that nor he nor Gandhi ever changed their religions and that Bucaile was challenged and proven wrong by many experts then challenge him to ask his experts to debate islamists like Zakir Naik..

11. If the pests still hangs around then change the topic and find faults in other religions and their books.

12. If he continues on then use personal attacks and insult him by calling him a jewish a- hole , a Chinese pig or a hindu dog .

13. If that does not frustrate him, then ask him how much he is being paid by jews to throw dirt on Al Islam.

14. If he still does not stop then run for his mother and sister and use very filthy language.

15. If he is very stubborn and wants to continue, then curse him like "Burn in hell, you will repent on last day, Allah will get you in your grave" etc

16. When all of the above has failed, threaten him with bodily harm and end the debate by drum beating and announcing that you won the debate hands down because Koran is the word of allah.

17. If possible anounce about this debate in an islamist website and that you had won it handily. Such announcements do wonders for the iman of muslim website readers and for dawah operations in prisons to convince low IQ prisoners of the truth of Al Islam.]

Re: # 39; Taureen sahib,

There are two types of indoctrinations; one by one's parents/society/schooling etc. The second is by oneself, especially after reaching a certain conclusion after being lost for a while. The rest is just constant re-affirmation of the same.

Islam, alongwith other religious traditions, is the same; the convert reaches a certain conclusion in his mind and then he makes a point of excluding all else, especially reason, and every counter-argument seems to 're-affirm' what one has already decided to believe. You'd hear the "faith begins where science ends" here a lot as well!

I'll try to give an example here; one doesn't have an explanation for a lot of things around; two ways the human mind can potentially go. One is to try to explain and look for a reason, often finding one when one looks hard enough. The alternative is 'fate', 'destiny' and 'gods' amongst other 'nice & easy' explanations; they vindicate one from the responsibilty of 'looking'; the famous saying "it is ALL there", etc. Its constant 're-affirmation of the already known'. Some of us would call it "the real jahilia"; others label it as "faith".

Koran (I spell it advisedly), is an old, archaic, plagiarised, and poorly written mythological tell-tale of jewish prophets of old, conveniently adopted to become 'part of the CHOSEN club' by the 'underdogs' of the time; obviously pissed off at the fact that 'their cousins' had this STATUS that appeared EXCLUSIVE; they themselves, on the other hand, had descended from 'Hagar - the slave girl'; that didn't seem fair. The story continues.....ad nauseum, if I might add. Then you'd hear the 'golden era' quoted where jews/muslims/christians lived so happy together, they never wanted to part! even if they tried.

As far as any 'distinction' from other 'faiths' is concerned, there is an important one. We have an "exclusive and chosen status", only in our twisted minds mind you, and the "ghalba" position is the goal. Throughout history we have had conflict after conflict with 'others' until we had that position of authority; it is a patriarchial tradition, where the 'convert' is constantly 'reassured' about his 'exclusive and equal status' that nobody else is prepared to offer him. Then there is a constant reminder of this newfound status if one chose to remain within the fold. There are many who don't but those stories are never told within the 'mainstream'.

Another thing is regarding 'the versions' one hears; apparently as it finally transpires, the Mohammed Asad translation of the Holy Book was the one mankind was waiting for; it seems to have explaianed issues that remained un-explained until then to the non-arabic speaker. I find the whole concept literally 'beyond belief'.

Yes you are right that in the horrible west is where one is 'allowed' as it were to read/analyse/challenge any of these concepts; in the fatherland, we would have long parted with our crania or worse made some other form of 'example' so others might learn from the expereince.

I first went to Pakistan when I was 13; I could speak the language but couldn't read or write Urdu. I learned very quickly though. The most striking thing I noticed, despite being at a 'good' school was the whole attitude towards education. I was used to 'questioning authority' which was taken to be 'rudeness'; I wanted to 'analyse' but was advised to 'rote learn' and pass exams etc rather than worry too much about what everything really 'meant'. Same with religion; one is 'brought up' in a 'certain way' if you will; the rest is one's own 'analysis' later in life which is again constantly to 're-affirm' rather than 'question'. Big difference, I reckon but there are those who'd vehemently disagree.

Has anyone ever wondered why more than 99% of religious adherents are "born within" any faith? the converts overall are a very small community, especially when 'the sword' is taken out of the equation. Why is it that all these 'born-agains' are almost always 'born within' the same traditions? But then again on eis NOT ALLOWED to wonder, is one? Predictable response would be to quote the 'verses from the holy book' that ask mankind to 'think'; but think about what exactly? Again mainly to start with a pre-determined result walking backwards to 're-affirm' what is ALREADY THERE!!

I quoted something a couple of months ago here and I'll see if I can find it again; it is the predictable response one would come across to what I wrote now and before.

Key is to keep looking though; I have said many times now that "the onus of proof is with the believer"; he should tell me there IS SOMETHING to talk about or otherwise shut up about it. No one can "disprove a negative"; If I told you there were fairies at the bottom of the garden, try as you may for eternity, you can't 'disprove' that; or can you?

“After having witnessed the cold-blooded murder of Iraqi women and children by trigger-happy Americans.�

Very touching Nadeem Akram Sahib. I wonder if you had mentioned how sickened did you feel to learn about the plight of Muslims of Darfur and their rape and murder at the hands of fellow Muslims, whether it had been published in the paper that it was. Thought provoking, however.

The price of having a faith in one of the major religions of the world (Islam being the most expensive one) is substantially greater than any perceived power of the faith. It is utter nonsense to talk about it in terms of reason.

#43 Posted by nadeemakr

"I am no scholar but when my five year old asks me why is someone killing a lot of people in the name of jihad, frankly my dearests, I have no answer!"

Your five years old asked this question? I think you are a negligent parent. How could a five year even know abt jihad and killing. Either you are telling him these things or you are letting him watch too much tv.

Shame on you for exposing your young child to the nonsense. You need to fix your household before you come and talk abt improving other people.

Re: # 43:
"
Hindus did it, Surbajeet Singh is one that comes to my mind.
"
From May 78 till Dec. 2007 on an average 40 Indians were killed by Baki IEDs, AK47, jihadis and infiltrators. Surabjeet must be innocent. But Indians should have made Baki pay in 84 or 87 itself. Gen. Sundarji should have done it so that innocents would not suffer. Geeta teaches this and India should make Geeta compulsory reading for every citizen so that this world can be paradise. Meek is as much responsible as the aggressor. No response is true violence because it violates the Natural Law.

Re: # 48: Have you seen Forrest Gump?

Millions of such prophets are alive so this world is truly paradise for many with right outlook. Read 40-50 condensed book of selected verses from Kuran first being Kalima for seven days with old Indian Muslims in US after 9/11. Frank those 40 pages might be good as manual but very mundane for some one who studied (might not have understood that well) Vedanta under the guidance of Swami Chinmayananda and different swamis of Ramkrishna Mission. More frankly and even according to these swamis all these scriptural reading is not necessary, if one tries to keep purity of childhood intact through out your adult life ..then you are that super consciousness. No need to visit temples and mosques. No need to read books in alien languages or join some desert land legions. If I do not find god within my body, parents, children, wife, neighborhood and country, then I will not find any where else. Dharmik understanding makes me see God/myself in the poorest of the poor, the maid, the driver and the janitor.

Abramhmic religion makes god alien, separate from us. It destroys our culture. Asks us to disown our ancestors, our language our saints and even our leaders. Not only that it asks us to disown our names.

Re: # 51
Mr. Eklavya,

"Some people argue that new converts to any religon are 'extremists' and hence beyond the pale."

I think 'those' who say this are themselves extremists! Read Dr. Muhammad Asad to see if his Qur'an translation or the famous autobiography (The road to Mecca) is extremist!

Regards.

tahir, zee,

If one wants to see the distinguishing features of Islam one will do well to focus on the views and opinions of new converts to Islam (not to sufism).

Some people argue that new converts to any religon are 'extremists' and hence beyond the pale. Well, may be, but new converts to Islam will differ from new converts to, say, Buddhism, and by looking at the differences between these two we can get a fairly intelligent idea of the differences between these and other religions.

Re: # 43
NADEEMMAKR becomes Nadeem 'makr'. Please change this; it'll make me very happy.

Re: # 42
Dear Kamath,

You've asked bravely! Yes I do have the courage; I neither hide behind the keyboard nor--like some interactors--behind their mothers' skirts.

You are wrong in assuming that I'm writing this either to please myself or a brain-washed readership. Have you interacted with sick animals? Well, I have, and some of them feel cured or are on their way to better health.

My discussions are not restricted to CHOWK. I speak my mind with Muslims 99% of the time. Many bark, a few bite, some purr in submission and understand.

Success is a relative thing.

Shaanti.

Re: # 41

You said "Abrahmic religions make us sinned ..destined to hell. It saps our self esteem"

I'm sorry you think this way. The Qur'an does NOT speak of Adam as a sinner who is on earth suffering a jail sentence! He was forgiven when he realised and repented. Now his descendants are supposed to make earth a peaceful and just place according to God's revealed Law. Satanic ideas ruin us and are a source of all of our sorrows. The evil force is the TEST that we must understand and pass!

So simple! Even Plato admitted that the purpose of the soul is to indulge in virtuous activity.

Shaanti.

Re: # 46

{One million blind mullahs are nothing compared with such men!}

So speaks almighty Baal.

Re: # 40
"Muslim Converts are the staunchest Muslims....they study it as a 'system' carefully and only then decide."

And that is why Dr. Muhammad Asad tops my list of Qur'an translators!

One million blind mullahs are nothing compared with such men!

Re: # 39
Thanks for replying with Khanish fervor; I can sense how vexed you must feel sitting far away from your ex-countrymen.

I'm glad that link opened your eyes. Many windows on the web will show you the truth, others will lead you to a spiritual dead-ends.

You said "it is only in Western countries where you can get access to all information irrespective of ideology".

Is this the reason you left Pakistan? I've read many banned books right here and nothing has ever stopped me from doing whatever research I like doing. Calling it Pakiland is offensive. Is that how you represent us there (I'm assuming you're half a Pakistani and a full Australian by now)? And I hope you have no connection with a blasphemous kangaroo that now practises surgery in down-underwear?

The true mirror is the Qur'an if one wants to see what one looks like, and NOT some Ibn Warraqa anti-Islam rambling.

Be strong and upright. If you can't defend yourself, nobody out there will do it for you.

I wish you well (happy?).

Re: # 38
Glad you liked it. What else can a man do?

A simple walking stick is sometimes better than a specially-trained dog to lead the blind.

Regards.

My dear sirs:

I do not think for a second that anyone of the interactors have read the entire article; at best they have glanced at it or at best read the teaser! That is not on. The article is neither about conversion nor about opening up of more madrassahs as has been suggested. The point is that due to ignorance amongst Muslims especially the Pakistani lot who has been educated about Islam through Islamiat 101 and so on, the true spirit of the religion as envisaged by the Holy Prophet got lost somehow in the clutter and noise of the so called Aalim Deens, and an ordinary Muslim living in Pakistan does not know the difference between the true meaning of Shadaat or the true sense of the word jihad. Thanks to the westren media, the word jihad has been distorted to a point where the word itself has lost its meaning. I am no scholar but when my five year old asks me why is someone killing a lot of people in the name of jihad, frankly my dearests, I have no answer! This statement does not indemnify the state of affairs that prevails in modern world today and Muslims are not the only culprits so to speak, Jews have done it, Christians have done it and still do it, Hindus did it, Surbajeet Singh is one that comes to my mind.

To all that have gone into a different tangent, I request to read the full article and try to get the jist of it and not take sentences out of the context!

Thanks

Re: # 36 Tahir:

Do you have the courage to say what you have written in front of Muslims ?

Re: # 38:
"
What this means in this context is that we cannot even accurately discuss Islamic views on topics such as gender relations or warfare without also, at the same time, discussing Islamic views on economics, social justice, sexuality, political relations, etc. In Islam, the whole illustrates the parts, and the parts, in turn, illustrate the whole. Any discussion of particular ayats that may appear to countenance aggressive violence or sexism must also, at the same time, refer to other seemingly unrelated topics. In Islam, many topics that may seem unrelated to some people are in fact related and shed light on each other and cannot be discussed apart from each other
"

Granted Islam is this giant system which includes the best modules for manufacturing lifted from SAP, financial modules lifted from Oracle Finacials and Human Resources from .. not only that it also has Maya for sexy animations, well integrated Java, Tomcat and C++. But the real problem is the underlying 7th century Bedouin OS. Even the best of the super processor (called prophet) could not load this giant koranic Islam. There were perpetual page faults with this super processor. So they came up with Hadith.

Give me something like ruby which is small, easy to put it in practice by prototyping and does not depend on external resources .. I should not be referring to the Book on the disc to execute every instruction .. everything should be on RAM as today youcan have 16G RAM with 64B processor.

Don't give me organized religion. I will discover my own Dharma if you keep it simple ie All are One, Every Being is inherently seeking Bliss/Goodness/Anand, universal Consciousness pervades and resides in each one of us.

Glanced the article ... felt there is wailing. Author is wailing that there is no enough Islam.

Abrahmic religions make us "sinned ..destined to hell." It saps our self esteem. Then we are easy to give in to the prison/legion hierarchy. For the legion's survival there has to be external enemy all the time. So Islamic folks constantly complain Darul-something. This legion gets its marching orders on Friday Fatwas. Pyramid schemes sell their wares capitalizing on greed of potential converts. Here what is peddled is heaven with wide eyed houris. They will never say you are fine as it is... No need to waste your energy for/on houris ... go out and enjoy a good run. Seems Forrest Gump was a true prophet.

#39 Posted by TaureanKhan,

That article is written by a Jeremiah D. McAuliffe, Jr., Ph.D. Obviously a Convert.

My point is, Muslim Converts are the staunchest Muslims of all because they do not have the 'rudimentary knowledge of their faith' as correctly termed by Nadeem Akram here. Instead, they study it as a 'system' carefully and only then decide.

This is the reason that Muslim converts from other religions, without any missionary influence, are beyond comparison Vis a Vis their numbers than between any other ones combined.

Tahir,

Thanks for providing that excellent link. It again proves my point: you cant analyse religion by Scientific method. but if you cannot analyse religions in simple ways.... does that mean that everyone need to have the intellectual capacity of a philosopher to understand Islam?

Regarding your comment on Kangaroo Land, it is only in Western countries where you can get access to all information irrespective of ideology. Will a Muslim country like PAkistan allow such free flow of information?


Labelling people as 'misled' again proves my point. People like you avoid looking at alternative views....Looking at alternative views is not being misled...it means expansion of intellectual horizons/maturity... In my post I did not say that I am antimuslim or Kafir... I am just looking at various view points (you have helped me in that by giving that link!) .......... calling me names i.e Cahn is typical ad hominem.

Regards

T Khan

#37 Posted by tahir,

Wow! This is what I've been saying all along. Great link.

What this means in this context is that we cannot even accurately discuss Islamic views on topics such as gender relations or warfare without also, at the same time, discussing Islamic views on economics, social justice, sexuality, political relations, etc. In Islam, the whole illustrates the parts, and the parts, in turn, illustrate the whole. Any discussion of particular ayats that may appear to countenance aggressive violence or sexism must also, at the same time, refer to other seemingly unrelated topics. In Islam, many topics that may seem unrelated to some people are in fact related and shed light on each other and cannot be discussed apart from each other.

Mr. Cahn/Khan (and others who are misled),

Do read this too:
http://www.city-net.com/~alimhaq/text/warraq.htm

Re: # 31
"I suggest you guys go through 'Why I am not a Muslim" by Ibn Warraq.... if anyone of you has done that please share your views. It is not available in Paki-land"

The advantage of living in Kangaroo-land is that you can read such trash and recommend it to others! I'm glad you're out of harm's way over there. Do you really know this rat? read on:

"Ibn Warraq was born into a Muslim family and grew up in a country that now describes itself as an Islamic republic. His earliest memories are of his circumcision and first day at Quran school, and his family still consider themselves Muslims. He, however, now considers himself a secular humanist who believes that: `all religions are sick men's dreams, false - demonstrably false - and pernicious'.

For Ibn Warraq support for Rushdie has to be seen as part of a larger war against the rise of `fundamentalist` Islam: For those who regret not being alive in the 1930s to be able to show their commitment to a cause, there is, first, the Rushdie affair, and, second, the war that is taking place in Algeria, the Sudan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, a war whose principal victims are Muslims, Muslim women, Muslim intellectuals, writers, ordinary decent people. This book is part of my war effort.

These facts and arguments concern the wholly human origin of the Quran.

Finally, we should note two further important points made by Ibn Warraq. First, that Islam never really encouraged science, if by science we mean `disinterested enquiry'. What Islam always meant by ' knowledge' was religious knowledge, anything else was deemed dangerous to the faith."

Good-bye Mr. Cahn (or is it Khan?)

Re: # 27
Mr. Rashid,

You made some fine points but by stating "This is what has happened with all RELIGIONS. Religions are based on personality cult..." you missed something essential.

SECTS are based on personalities, not religion. Hence when Orientalists use the term 'Muhammedan' for Muslims, they imply as if the Prophet invented it all! This is wrong.

Every community needed to heed to what was revealed to it according to the social, moral or economic conditions of its time. That the Qur'an is the final message means that we now know practically everything about past cultures and their decadent life-styles. We need to identify the traps set by Satan for mankind and stay on the 'path of safety' in all matters.

I wish you peace.

Re: # 24
Mr. Maj,
If He likes obedient beleivers and the do-gooders, it means He dislikes the arrogant and the disobedient.

You'll have to read the relevant verses of the Qur'an to see Satan's attitude and how this force was declared 'outcast', 'reject'.

Do read the Book if you have time; better yet, find some time.

Regards.

Re: # 27

Rashid Sahib

Incisive, intelligent, brave and worth reading again and again.

Re: # 27- Rashid:

You are a bad Muslim who corrupts young Muslims.You should be banned from Muslim Ummah. What do you say?

Kamath

Dear Friends,

We cannot convince each other on meta-physical issues relating to religion which are I guess beyond the 'human intellectual machinery' i.e. the 'scientific method' cannot be applied to them. The age old effort to find the proof of the existence of God is one example. Even if you make a convincing argument (Has Richard Dawkins made one?), I bet people wont change their beliefs..

However, I strongly advise everyone to know about different view points regarding religious doctrines etc and compare ... just for the fun of it!!!

For a start, I suggest you guys go through 'Why I am not a Muslim" by Ibn Warraq.... if anyone of you has done that please share your views.It is not available in Paki-land but if you google it, you can find it a free online version... I also suggest reading Ghamdi... very interesting stuff!

Again, dont read for conversion to a view point.... read for comparison of view points......This is harder to do!

Warm Regards


T Khan
Sydney

nadeem,

the real land of milk and honey per the islamic system is happening in nwfp. You should move there.

This is also in line with pak military doctrine of strategic depth. They wanted taliban in afghanistan for the sake of strategic depth, now they have agreed to create a taliban country in NWFP and the pak military has withdrawn from there, the final escape place when the indian troops move in.

But the history will repeat itself, the afghan taliban were bombed out and moved to NWFP, they will be bombed out and will move to interior pakistan. wait for that to happen.

Re: # 16
Too many chiefs but not enough Indians

"The majority of Muslim children growing up in Pakistan have rudimentary knowledge of their faith" (author)

Still not enough madrassas in Pakistan for you sir -- so much faith-based murder and mayhem with the "rudimentary" knowledge of the faith -- just imagine what would have happened to Pakistan naoozobillah -- if the Murdoodis and the Fazoloos had the "full" knowledge of the faith -- something to think about!

At # 3 posted by Tahir—“Show us that proud Muslim face that only prostrates before Allah …..,�.
As a retired person, I have time on my hand but do not spend my time in mosques, the embodiment of the institution of ‘mother church’ and the abode of its operatives the ‘clergy’. But I enjoy the company of young inquiring minds who can ask the above quoted question and invite to tease out some more questions.
This word ‘Allah’ is Arabic because the person (Muhammad) who was inspired to compile the Quran, was born in Arabia and was himself an Arab, hence Arabic "Allah"
If we are talking of ‘prostrating’, that is obeying the ONE Universal Creator’s natural and societal laws for all, should not Allah’s name be that which is understood by all English speaking people? Should that not be GOD? By insisting on using Allah, does not that make HIM a specific ‘desert deity’ and of the Arabs only?
Does not the Quran say that there were many Messengers in all nations before Muhammad, some named therein and some not? Did they all speak Arabic? Does not this insistence on Arabic word go against the grain of the teaching of the universal ‘brotherhood� of humanity, which is the bedrock of Towheed- oneness?
With reference to the article itself, here are a few issues. But first I append here what I witnessed in animal nature some time ago:
There was a pile of garden clippings, couple of weeks old, which we set on fire. Just as the pile was torched we noticed a lizard dash out, run a few steps and turn back into the fiery pile. This it did number of times, not to come out finally as the pile was well and truly lit, before it could be put out to investigate the cause of this behavior. It came to pass that there were a few baby lizards and the mother-lizard along with them was now perished!And so?
“And when logic, reason and vision fail us, we blame it all on fate�, says a quote from the article.
That was the fate (Qadar) of the animal Lizard in nature’s laws, its instinct. However Human being is endowed with thinking capacity and is therefore expected to assess the situation for every “action� it takes, logically and thoughtfully. Spirituality in short, does not depend only on the belief in what kismat (luck) dishes out but also the rationality of ‘righteous deeds’, actions that produce good reactions.
One more issue,“….Do they know what it means by “There is no god but Allah and Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is His messenger…..� a further quote. Generally speaking one would say ‘NO’.
Nadeem Mian ( I mean it endearingly)—No where in Quran the two parts of the kalima (declaration of oneness of God) appear all together in one sentence. That is to say, the uniqueness of God and that Muhammad is His Messenger on the one line. It is easy to see why. The FIRST PART is the ‘article of faith’ of all major faiths. Its manifestations might vary from church to church! This belief therefore puts Humanity on par.
But the second part of kalima belongs to just one community(Ummah) of people who call themselves Muslims, with various factions thrown therein for good business. Quran dubs factions as akin to committing shirk.
The second part, stands alone where ever it appears in the Book (see 3-144,33-40,48-29). If it was essential for the declaration of universal faith, then all previous messengers would have declared and ordained it so to their followers. But that is not so. Yet Quran says to its addressee Messenger that they were ‘not told any different to what you are told’, and that God does ‘not differentiate between prophets’. Therefore by us combining the two parts in the article of faith , contrary to Quran, the very essence of the oneness of God, exaltedness of all messengers, and brotherhood of mankind, is NEGATED, even if a Messenger is raised to a higher level close to God. It dilutes HIS pristine ness and introduces a PERSONALITY CULT in the faith. That then becomes a ‘religion’ and Islam is not one – it is not Mohammedanism. Muslims have created this ‘world view� by their own actions, similar to say, Christianity with Christ the man as the focus. The meaning of towheed is obvious—no person is above another and all mankind is equal and worthy of dignity. The first part frees mankind from all kinds of gulaami-that is slavery.
In the words of a poet Azhar:
Mai Khudaa toe nah thaa aey kalima-go ---jo oos sey tuney milaa diyaa mujh ko.
(I was not god Oh proclaimer of Kalima—--that you put me on par with HIM).
Belief in Muhammad as a messenger being a human being and the seal of messenger is necessary if we are to believe that God in HIS wisdom has completed the Code and that mankind as a whole has matured enough now and is on its way to attain the status of ‘humanity’ (Alas not there yet in practice, thanks to religious dogmas!) and should stand on its own intellectual feet from here on, and no props are available from the ONE Universal Creator, call HIM Allah, Khudaa, Rab, God, Parabhu, Got, Mungu and what ever other names one chooses to give HIM. But that does not mean that those who whish to excercise their freedom not to believe in the second part, yet commit no shirk and act ‘righteously’ for the benefit of mankind will be left out in the cold (eg see 2-62, 5-69 etc).
This thought process by no means diminishes the exalted position of Messenger Mohammad. On the contrary it enhances his achievements in that he achieved them despite being a mere human being (Bashar). Had he fulfilled his mission with irrational ‘miraculous’ help with winged angles at his side, it would not have been a big deal! (Did the apple really fall on Newton’s head? If yes, then what fell on Einstein’s head?).
“Each one of us today has developed our own version of Islam� you say. I would add also ‘and our own version of religions (30-32)’. This is what has happened with all RELIGIONS. Religions are based on personality cult and are the largest employer of ‘the blind following blind’s’ dogma. What is more, its operatives the clergy depend on the “business of divisiveness�!
“Deen-e-Mullah fee sabillillah fasad�. Remember, the poor Mullah embraces all Clergy.Sorry folks I took my time!
Rashid

Dear Nadeem,

Start was excellent... Explains the beauty of Nature...

But how come Maulvi and Kalima came into discussion...

If you like the basic natural instint of motherly love among animals, I think it is more appropriate to praise laws of nature... And Laws of Nature are genetic, particle physics, psychology etc...

When humans didn't understand these laws, they started worshipping them... Accepting the fact that these phenomenon were stronger than human capabilities... They used to worship snakes, monkeys.. And then mooons and stars... At the end, they decided to worship only one imaginary thing : God that controls all the phenomena of nature stronger than them... Hence, God became one single entity representging all those natural laws that were not yet uncovered by human beings...

Now Let's say, God is the one driving all laws of nature... (which is a useless assumption.. if you want to worship the most powerful things, start worshipping nature directly, instead of inventing an new entity behind nature.) So let's say God drives all natural laws, Then true books of God representing laws of nature are written by Einstein, Newton and Abdus Salam. Quran and Bible are outdated books... Gita was outdated even 2000 years back... Instead of teaching our children the meanings of Kalima, Surah or anything similar, we should be more interested in teaching them relativity, evolution and weak nuclear forces which are true representation of the laws of nature..

Re: # 22
Tahir says "I'd be spiritually marooned."

AS IF! LOL!!

Tahir,

(As His creation, I must agree with Him; no ifs or buts here.)

Certainly. But has He told you that he abhors atheists or is that your own conclusion? If first fine, but if it is the second and you are trying to impose your own views on God, then He may have something to tell you, no?

Regards

Re: # 22

Did you not hear me the first time?

Donot call upon our wrath boy.

Your Lord

Re: # 20
As His creation, I must agree with Him; no ifs or buts here.
But if were to listen to the voice of the devil (see # 21), I'd be spiritually marooned.

Re: # 19

Tahir what the fuck are you talking about?

Leave me out of this.

Tahir sahib,

(I was convinced when I saw that God abhors this wicked Godlessness.)

Is there a possibility that God may disagree with you? Or do you believe in a God who agrees with you on (most) things?

Regards

Re: # 10
I was convinced when I saw that God abhors this wicked Godlessness. It is once again becoming fashionable. Believe in THE Creator, not what He created please.

Please!

PS: please...please...!
More PS: please...please....please...!

Haha ... Nadeem Saheb, the following iLog entry refers:

zeemax :Post of the month (Year?):

Posted: Apr 29, 2008

Post by sgb

@ laddu

dear laddu i am a simple and a common muslim girl

not a religious scholar

what i felt

i wrote it

but i am astonished

that u r trying very hard to prove me wrong

iam not asking u to change ur religion

Latest comments:

Posted by sgb on Wednesday April 30, 2008

what is this mr zeemax

any special reason behind it

dont try to "USE" my words


Posted by zeemax on Thursday May 1, 2008

sgb,

I was just admiring the simple and beautiful logic of your words. But actually they KNOW we're not trying to convert them. THEY're trying to convert US.

"Being a Muslim means more than just offering prayers; it means emulating the life of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and conforming to the dictates of the Holy Quran, not in part or what suits us, but in its totality. And unless we understand the meaning of the Kalima, we don’t stand a chance of redeeming ourselves in this world or the world hereafter."

Nadeem, that is a very good point from an educated pakistani. So teh conclusion is that pakistan needs more religious education, welcome to more madrassas.

It is the so called educated people like you are the problem of pakistan, and it is people like you who support the hoodood and blasphemey laws in the name of religion and it is people like you who fund the madrassas.

Pathetic.

Re: # 13
Laddu...
Hey bhagwan.....for solving every problem you want more Islam......

Ans: A nice Joke...
After consecutive five gold medals at teh Olympic event of rowing, USA team lost to Japan. US sports think tank started analysing the problem and thought of re-organising the team. In stead of 2 manager 8 workers, they have appointed 4 managers and 6 rower. Next time USA lost again. And after further analysis, they had changed the team composition to 6 managers and 4 rowers.Meanwhile Japan maintained a team of 10 workers...and the final outcome you can guess....

Not really read, so may be out of context.
"
We lack faith, are devoid of the basic understanding of our religion and are millions of miles away from being a Muslim.
"

What, when you reached the destination? If I were you when I arrive, I would see whole universe one ... there is no I or you. Observer is same as what is being observed. There is no judgment, no complain, guilt, desire or anguish. In the beginning I might start to fake it till I get it. So, Don't Worry be Happy!

When we drop the book, we might be able to surrender better. Also on this journey it's good to travel lite. The book is unnecessary baggage.

Akram: I said in my earler post, I said,"....It is one great tragedy that most Muslims are brought upon the belief that there is else in the world to know or learn from - other than Quran, Hadithys and Prophet Mohammad. This has been going on for the past 1400 years.,.....

I meant to say,".......It is one great tragedy that most Muslims are brought upon the belief that there is NOTHING else in the world to know or learn from - other than Quran, Hadiths and Prophet Mohammad. This has been going on for the past 1400 years....". Sorry for the oversight.
Kamath

"So where do we start? By renewing our vows. "

Hey bhagwan.....for solving every problem you want more Islam......

"We must first try to develop a clear understanding as to what is meant by: “There is no god but Allah and Muhammad"


So, you are clear now??

"Thirty years later, I am just beginning to understand why she called upon her Creator for health, even though the best doctor in town has prescribed her the medicine."

So you want all doctors to speak mumbo jumbo before they adminsiter medicine?

"Each one of us today has developed our own version of Islam. ....Today, millions of people like myself are wondering what to do? We lack faith, are devoid of the basic understanding of our religion and are millions of miles away from being a Muslim."

So, the solution to the problem of corruption is more Islam.....fantastic !!!

"Being a Muslim means more than just offering prayers; it means emulating the life of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and conforming to the dictates of the Holy Quran, not in part or what suits us, but in its totality. And unless we understand the meaning of the Kalima, we don’t stand a chance of redeeming ourselves in this world or the world hereafter."

So, once Shariah is imlemented in toto and all momeens become clones of Prophet all the Pakitan's problem will be solved?

I second the proposal- all Pakis must live under shariah that is strictly implemented.!!
Allahu!!!

Akram:

It is one great tragedy that most Muslims are brought upon the belief that there is else in the world to know or learn from - other than Quran, Hadithys and Prophet Mohammad. This has been going on for the past 1400 years.

Tell me why is this addiction? and how many little Islamic paradises have been created on earth by worshipping an absentee Allah? Religion is very important to most but not so much!!

Kamath

tahir krochen Sie, das Ihre Mutter bumste, yo Sohn Ihrer Schwester, Rückkehr zum Kiesel Sie heraus von
tahir krochen Sie, das Ihre Mutter bumste, yo Sohn Ihrer Schwester, Rückkehr zum Kiesel Sie heraus von Ihnen und Ihr frommes fervour saugen und sind schlechter als die Dirne, die Sie Ihre Schwester anrufen

Tahir sahib,

I guess you are convinced that all atheists are evil people and agents of the Devil, no?

Regards

Perish in your rage atheists, and take a 100 atheists each with you as you burn to ashes...

Arifbhai,

(Why should evolved human beings continue to be slaves to superstitions? )

As you have wisely observed, giraffes and wolves have no religion. But as mammals evolved into humans they developed the need for God and religion.

Regards

Dear Mr. Akram

Did the mother Wolf or Giraffe have a religion? What about your ancestors that is if you believe in the theory of evolution?

Why should evolved human beings continue to be slaves to superstitions?

Re: # 3 tahir chutiya murtid munafiq camel for the arbis

Re: # 3 Pourquoi devons-nous ce Tahir stupide sweinhund lire ? Il écrit s'il vous plaît à la sélection inutile qui dort avec ses propres Mamma et SIS ! quel baiseur idiot de mère il est

Re: # 3 Sie deutsches lapdog Bumsen weg von Ihnen arisches

Good effort here Mr. Nadeem.

Akram, your surname appears in 96:3 of the Holy Qur'an, the very first revelations. I cannot address you as AKRAM as it means 'the Most Bountiful One'. I'm sure you'll understand me.

Age forty is again that point-of-no-return age mentioned in the Qur'an by which any man should be able to figure out things.

46:15
NOW [among the best of the deeds which] We have enjoined upon man is goodness towards his parents. In pain did his mother bear him, and in pain did she give him birth; and her bearing him and his utter dependence on her took thirty months. And so, when he attains to full maturity and reaches forty years, he [that is righteous] prays: "O my Sustainer! Inspire me so that I may forever be grateful for those blessings of Thine with which Thou hast graced me and my parents, and that I may do what is right [in a manner] that will meet with Thy goodly acceptance; and grant me righteousness in my offspring [as well]. Verily, unto Thee have I turned in repentance: for, verily, I am of those who have surrendered themselves unto Thee!"
--(The Message of the Qur;an: Muhammad Asad)

Old bones are not wanted for the important job. Retired men, who've abused Islam or never attempted to understand it, suddenly find all the time in the world to spend in the mosques. What's the use then?

But look at what Rashad Khalifa's translation says ("anyone who dies before this age goes to Heaven."): http://www.angelfire.com/az2/submission/age40.html

All the athiestic interacters on CHOWK (and the editors) need to realise things; the sooner the better.

Show us that proud Muslim face that only prostrates before Allah, and gladly challenges the agents of Iblees boldly without asking for a reward.

Bless you.

Re: # 1
Dear Parthaab (Singh?),

If you're an athiest, please try praying to the One who has created you, and will eventually take you to task for your blasphemies!

" No teacher, or parent for that matter, has ever taken the time to explain it to his or her ward what the Kalima stands for. "

Thankfully for the god-believers, no teacher or parent is even attempting to explain anything. If they did, they surely will discover a truth, entirely different from what they were trying to 'prove'. Religions themselves do not try to explain anything - not without reason.

What we need really, is anger-management courses alongwith moral science classes for the brain-washable age-group. God-believing is a medieval 'art of living' that lasted some 4000 years, and is rapidly dying out - rightly so.