Race to the Finish

Zeena writes "I have observed hundreds of times where blacks are given more than equal opportunities in day to day life and in other professions, but, they couldn't shine and rather stumble in USA."

An obvious lie, not only does she not know 100 AAs, she has observed through the biases of others and her own (peonish biases) what she considers "more than equal opportunity"- nobody who is black in America can ever be given "more than equal opportunity" because the moment they step out into the street "blackness" and its consequences in that perverted society take effect, the effects that destroy self-worth, that destroy the black family, that devalue everything about them, and that hammers down into them that they are subhuman leeching off the generosity of the white man. The implicit affirmative action that countless surveys have revealed, that countless experiments have shown, more than outdoes any affirmative action that tries to equal the playing field. Of course the oppressors will never take on the responsibility for their racism, they will always blame the victim and their peons will make prepostrous claims about seeing hundreds of cases while I can guarantee you she cannot even tell you the names of 100 African Americans rather than studying their cases, period....

An athiest kangaroo admits:

"I am a Pakistani too but almost never feel offended even at the vilest things said about Pakistan and Islam. I have always maintained that there is far more to 'honour' than what we are lead to believe; especially in our societies."

This explains its jumpy behaviour. This attitude is called 'bay-ghairati' in our language!

#662 Posted by ana,

I had my reasons for writing that last night as a response to what some Indians were saying.

I had told you before I had grown up around the vicinity of the Preira Bakery in Saddar Karachi and my best friends in school were Christians, Hindus, and Parsis. How could you ever make such a statement? Do Indians matter to you more than your own country?

Ana, for the same reason, I hate it when my Pakistaniness is questioned. Well, I don’t hate it, but who is to tell me that when my clan is indigenous to Punjab since even before Prophet Mohammad was born. That I am anything but Punjabi. Sure, if they want, they can throw me out by force, but don’t they have better things to worry about than who is Pakistani and who is not? It’s a shame.

Anyway enough discussion on this topic, which was to honor sportsmanship and it turned out as some discussion on religion and whatnot. Religious people make lousy sportsmen.

zeemax:

i do understand that, thank you. :) And yes, I know it does offend Pakistanis, and has, which is why I refrain from expressing that. I had my reasons for writing that last night as a response to what some Indians were saying.

cheema, How nice that you do not get offended by the vilest things said even under the relative anonymity of the Internet. I have been here for seven years and this is mostly all I have seen.... I get tired of seeing the same things, and yes, it does help my virtual presence here not to participate or even read such nonsense.

And finally Christians in Pakistan do NOT look away from the reality they are in. We continue in spite of the reality, whatever that is. Some of us challenge that reality. Because we are Pakistanis. We belong there, and we love our home. My father would not have returned to Lahore to help our community (and I am speaking of the wider community) if he thought it was inconsequential.

#658 Posted by akcheema,

I have always maintained that there is far more to 'honour' than what we are lead to believe

There's a famous saying key jab aizti hi nahi, tau beyzti kya?

#656 Posted by bjkumar,

I think if ana had just qualified her statement with a "... as a member of the non-Muslim Pakistani community, I think ...", that would have sufficed. In the manner that she said it though, was highly offensive to most Pakistanis. I'm sure she understands that.

prophetboy: freedom house freedom rankings..can you guess the rankings for india and pakistan...the 3 choices are free, partially free and not free...

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=363&year=2007

Re: # 638; ana
"I am wedded to my identity as a Pakistani, and I am sorry but I no longer read posts which vilify Pakistan and the Jinnah. It helps my shelf life here at Chowk not to do that."

Ana, why would being 'wedded to a Pakistani identity' be required to prolong one's shelf-life here at Chowk?

Surely one should be free to express one's mind. Especially with the relative annonymity and 'protection' of the internet.

I am a Pakistani too but almost never feel offended even at the vilest things said about Pakistan and Islam. I have always maintained that there is far more to 'honour' than what we are lead to believe; especially in our societies.

Does that mean there is something wrong with me that my 'honour' is not that easily fractured?

Re: # 656

bj,

Whats the time there in your place.....

The unfortunate reality is that Christians (and Hindus) in Pakistan are a negligible minority. Their numbers are negligible and whatever there are - have been absolutely and completely marginalized by putting in place clear-cut segregationalist laws.

What such people say or do is inconsequential in the Pakistani scheme of things. Perhaps it is good for THEM that they chose to look away from that reality. Perhaps that is the only way they can retain a bit of sanity.

For sure, it is unrealistic to expect such individuals to express their honest comments on the issue of partition and the role of the principals in the same.

It would also be unkind.

It would be a bit like expecting a hostage, who has a gun held to his forehead, to comment honestly on the negative (or positive) attributes of the gun-holder!

Zee sahib,

Re: 653

Honestly I dont know whether Injuns and Pakis are same races or different races. Important thing is waht Pakis believe to be the case. If Pakis believe that they are a separate race, they are.

Regards

#652 by majumdar

MAJ (pbuh) never intended to create an Islamic state.

Majumdar bhai, if Jinnah really did intend Pakistan to be a secular state, he was more deluded than I thought. You cannot sow Pudine ke beej and expect a Banyan tree to grow. What Cheema Sahib said in his post is worth repeating:

"when one creates a state in the name of religion(even if the underlying premise may be a secular intent for its future outlook), the evil of religion takes over nevertheless (try as we may against it!)."

#641 Posted by izuber,

No. BJKumar insists Pakistanis and Indians are the same genetically (as many others like hamidm2 and akcheema etc do). Zeena believes they are not, and I fully agree. These are two distinct races though carrying some common culture or even family names through inter-marriages.

As for ana's considering partition a mistake, perhaps it indeed was from the point of view of Pakistani minorities to which she belongs - though not all. If she is speaking on behalf of Pakistani Muslims, firstly she shouldn't and secondly she should read the Sachar Report.

Cheema sahib,

(it did safeguard the economic welfare of muslims in that part of the sub-continent; Being an atheist, I'd be the biggest hypocrit claiming to condone a "muslim"state)

You are correct on both counts.

1. MAJ (pbuh) never intended to create an Islamic state.
2. The rationale of Pakistan was to protect the Mussalman's worldy interest not to impose Nizam-e-Mustafa.

Regards

Re: # 639; anil

You are right. What I said was to illustrate a point; if it fell on deaf ears, nothing I can do.

I couldn't care less where someone is from; the last thing anyone here can blame me for is silly parochialism.

The partition was not such a calamity in itself; I think it did safeguard the economic welfare of muslims in that part of the sub-continent; I never get involved in the nitty gritty of it but I do tend to agree with Ana. I wish it hadn't happened but we need to make the most of it and move on.

Being an atheist, I'd be the biggest hypocrit claiming to condone a "muslim"(substitute appropriately) state especially with all the modern day connotations that terminology evokes. Same rules of course apply to Israel; when one creates a state in the name of religion(even if the underlying premise may be a secular intent for its future outlook), the evil of religion takes over nevertheless (try as we may against it!).

Zeena was trying to invovlve genetics, amongst other things, to define Pakistani 'identity'; I just hate that and my previous posts explain that point reasonably well. To me, there is no genetics involved when I talk about my part of the world(by which I mean Punjab); we are all slightly different from one another, but that is hardly grounds to keep dividing up humanity time and again.

I can't (and don't want to) control the crap that comes from the Indian side; what I, as an individual, can do is to debate this with my own (i.e., Pakistani) side, when I feel they have been making unjustified claims of 'racial' superiority; it is patronising, as invariably when they claim to be 'different', they (albeit subconsciously) claim to be 'superior' too.

What goes on here in the name of silly nationalism between Indians and Pakistanis is shameful and pathetic. We all need to get some perspective here.

Khuda Hafiz for now