PPP Isn’t Convinced!

Hamid Mian,

I request your opinion on "The Second World" a book written by Parag Khanna. Where should Pakistan be? Under the Chinese influence? or under the US influence? Should Gwadar be under the influence of a US empire or under the Chinese empire? Could you help the "unwashed masses" understand this new developing world order?

#16 Posted by bulleya on May 4, 2008 12:21:31 pm


those of us sitting in pakistan


geographical proximity doesn't automatically translate into brilliant insights...

I can tell you the situation in iraq is bad even though I've never in Iraq proper.

When you told us to wear t-shirts with paki flags, you were living in the US...

one can not put the real problems of the people and reinstating the judges in the same basket. The real problem are gonna take much longer provided a sincere and systematic approach towards solving them is taken, whereas reinstaing judges is a matter of a resolution followed by the executive order - all of which can take less than a day.

Therefore don't try to make excuses in the name of peoples' real problems for dragging feet on the judges issue.

hamidm #10: ".... please explain how when he is sitting in the army house, the supreme court is stacked with his appointees, and the government has less than thirty seats in the senate ?"

hmm.....i think you need to stick with deaborn politics.....those of us sitting in pakistan, perhaps, have a better first hand understanding of what they are seeing in pakistan.....then again, you supported george bush as the next great hope for the usa (and the world)......so maybe dearborn isn't the correct place for you either...

musharraf, at the moment, is scared to address the parliament.......much less kick it out.....i think after the elections, if bilawal bhutto had clapped once, tens of thousands of people would have gathered around musharraf's house and taken him out....

1. "he is sitting in the army house"
....sitting in an army house doesn't immune one from impeachment.....kindly point out anything in the constitution which mentions the army house......

2. ".....the supreme court is stacked with his appointees,"
.......the supreme court also doesn't have anything to do with impeachment......it is a legally defined procedure, accepted by everyone.....

3. " and the government has less than thirty seats in the senate ?"
.....impeaching a president only requires a 2/3rd majority of the combined parliament - not a 2/3rd majority in each house......the current govt. has this 2/3rd majority.......

in addition, your friend nilofer, after enjoying the pleasures of power, has now formed a small forward bloc in the senate, and has joined the opposition marches against musharraf (though that is not needed for impeachment).....

2/3rd in both houses, separately, is only needed for amending the constitution.......not for impeaching the president....

i try my best to not abuse people on this site.....hence i will not call you an idiot.....but, hamidm mian, your lack of knowledge is really testing even my patience......i can tolerate abuse, but i cannot tolerate stupidity......

the only thing musharraf could do against impeachment, is to use 58(2)-b prior to impeachment.......however no one will bother about that......

#11 Posted by rf786 on May 4, 2008 10:15:36 am

["common public are driven by sound bites coming from the media, they do not have the capacity or the depth"]

altaph bai kay tapeworm, you have the depth and the capacity for this:

My dear friends.

Lets hold these truths to be evident...
1) The politicians dont have answers to our problems.
2) We just want democracy. cuz supposedly, having general elections where people with the most muscle and money can gain access to power. There lack of ability to rule, create laws, order societies, or anyhting constructive is not important.
We discuss what they do in the streets after elections then what they dont do in parliament.

Our masses dont care about their future, therefore, they elect people who dont create a future.

Re: # 12

hamidm2

I totally agree and share with you the same disgust towards our politicians, but show me one electable politician anywhere in the world who does not lie. That breed does not exists, its in their chromosomes to deceive, pander, slander, present themselves as the sole saviors, we all know thats not true, yet Ron Paul and Ralph Nader are nothing but side freak shows.

Point being, we need to emphasize on the process not on individuals. Pakistan needs a political process, granted it needs better politicians but that will come with time and nothing comes for free.

Re: # 11

rf786,

.... i am not a big fan of musharraf - i think the man is despicable - but the politicians are a lot worse than him ...... they are blatantly lying to the public and trying to pull the wool over their eyes - it is they who are showing disrespect to the unwashed masses ..... musharraf's shennigans are transparent and he does it with 'khuli badmashi' challenging the people to 'poot lo jo pootna hai!" ...... i respect that more than the bs being dished out to the people by king zardari and gonglu shiraf of gowalmandi ........... shame on them and the unwashed masses who elected them !

Re: # 10

hamidm2

Its not Bulleya's fault, common public are driven by sound bites coming from the media, they do not have the capacity or the depth to understand complexities of politics. For the masses, its much easier to believe in the visible, the narrated, the tangible, immediate rather than the abstract. So please, do not condemn bulleya to the pan business maybe to the company of Gonglu Tinda Sharif.

Re: # 9

bewakoof bulleya,

"if the govt. wants to impeach him tomorrow, there is nothing he can do.."

.... please explain how when he is sitting in the army house, the supreme court is stacked with his appointees, and the government has less than thirty seats in the senate ?

........ i think you should return to canada and open up a pan shop on gerard street where you can expound on your theories on international business and pakistani politics ..... maybe arjun can help you sell t-shirts .....

...the person who has played his cards the best is, definitely, nawaz sharif......

he took an issue with which he had, absolutely, nothing to, and made it his own, i.e. the judiciary issue.......nawaz sharif and pml-n did nothing for the judiciary......infact, their rule was one of the worst for the judiciary and the media......

yet, nawaz sensed the public mood, on returning to pakistan, and immediately owned the juidiciary agenda.....

.the elections started right after he landed in pakistan.....he had a rump of his party left......his own political credibility was low as he had opted for saudi arabia and not for jail.......(for those who don't understand pakistani politics, going to jail is the ultimate badge of honor.......and running away the ultimate insult.........this is why gilani is prime minister, and javed hashmi won more seats than any other candidates)....

......on the other hand, ppp has been, traditionally, the anti-establishment party......it took on the establishment....its leader were targeted the most by musharraf......they spent the most time in jail....they are the party that did not break.......(unlike 2/3rd of the pml-n, which opted to join musharraf).....then they lost benazir, and many think the establishment targeted her....

.....yet zardari has fallen behind the public opinion......his party and its workers, have been dying to jump on the judiciary bandwagon......it is also dying to go after musharraf....

.....zardari, however, needs the current judiciary and musharraf to write off his cases........nawaz has already served the time for his........(as has zaradari and that too in jail, however, his cases remain undecided)......

zardari is not playing his cards correctly.....his party has the people's genuine vote.......people know he has spent his time in jail.......i don't think they will let anyone do anything to him, provided he does not fall behind on the judiciary issue, and on the musharraf issue......

nawaz has, in addition, forced his hand even in dubai....one can see easily that zardari has finally given into nawaz.......

pml-n 1 - ppp 0.......

nawaz is now the sharpest sword in pakistan's political armoury.......

i think zardari needs to back down and let gilani, aitezaz, khoro et al. take the lead.......they are the original ppp leaders and will take the party in the correct direction.......

anyways lets see what happens.......as for musharraf, if the govt. wants to impeach him tomorrow, there is nothing he can do.......the army is only powerful if the politicians are split.........

... so far, i am feeling vindicated ...... when bholay shah tahmed was going nuts over restoring the judiciary and getting rid of musharraf, i tried to tell him that the man was more than a match for the droopy eyed one and the politicians ........ the politicians are corrupt, incompetent and compromised - if not, they have the people's mandate to do whatever they want to do ....... all this stuff about the 'establishment' is sheer nonsense - the fault lies with the clueless unwashed masses and the leaders they have chosen ........

president musharraf zindabad !
sheikh rashid zindabad !

Dear Ahmer

"this status-quo in Pakistan (which in opinion is headed by Army and bureaucracy, landlords, industrialists, land mafias, stock-exchange magicians are there minions)"....

Basically interest groups who ocupy seats of power, if that is the defination then why ignore their biggest fan base i.e., Maulvis and their network of Maderssas one of the major power brokers and architects of this mutated ideology.

Having said that, all of the above are citizens of Pakistan and have the same right as that of any other citizen to exercise their economic, political and social rights. Is being rich a crime? or wearing a certain uniform makes you guilty. I am quite sure that is not what you meant, but that is the impression one would be forced to assume given your broad generalizations.

Here's an interesting excerpt from Zardari's BBC interview with Owen Benett Jones on 25 April:

OBJ: Jemima Khan wrote ... and I quote from her interview with President Musharraf. She says in the end:

"He shakes my hand. 'It will be the saddest day for Pakistan if Benazir's crooked widower is in power by Monday,'I say. As the President walks away, he looks back. 'At least we part on agreement.'"

Your comments please.

AZ: Well ... what can I say ... she is pretty.

OBJ: Pretty? Are you trying the charm offensive on Jemima Khan?

AZ: One should have pretty friends.

all that this man says proves that the paki state is an anachronism and thus not permanent.a haven of crooks.

Re: # 2
izuber

"A common person of Pakistan does not care who it is that is running the affairs of nation as long as their needs are fulfilled be it Mr. M, Mr. Z or MR. N "

Give us a break, the average pakistanis prime concerns are veryt different. One of teh largest rally today in karachi was against soem stupid movie made by a ductch man, and not about the crime or pricve rise in pakistan.

The most violent campaign in pak history against teh govt was in response to the freeing of a few chinese captured b7y the jihadis.

The priority for the pakis is religion..full stop and and nothing else matters.

All that the impoverished FATA people are demanding is sharia.