Zafar Mohiuddin May 6, 2008
#103 Posted by majumdar on May 13, 2008 11:05:25 pm
Posting on behalf of Masadi sahib
Why Restoring the Deposed Judges is Priority #1 for Pakistan
M. Asadi
The most important issue facing the country today is the restoration of the judges. The ‘Judicial Crisis’ before Musharraf’s November ‘07 emergency was manufactured by the Pakistan Army/US in order to get Musharraf (who had fallen out of favor with the people and with the Americans) out of his uniform, staying in which he would have damaged the military and hence US interests in the region. This manipulation produced the unintended consequence of the lawyers’ movement. It is a movement that does not see eye to eye with the judges. Therefore when the judges termed the objection against Musharraf's presidential election "unmanageable" allowing him to go ahead with what was illegal, the lawyers took to the streets to protest this same court with the same judges they now support. The restoration of these judges who were removed unconstitutionally by Musharraf sets a very bad precedent for military rule (and therefore it is being opposed by the president, by the military and by the Americans), more so than any alliance that the PPP or PML-N can come up with, which thus far has been a molding of them into the PML-Q image, to legitimize the recent elections, that produced the results we saw in order to salvage military rule in this country. If this country has to change towards a democratic future then the judges must be restored immediately, the restored court will be beholden more to the people and the lawyers movement than to the military if such a precedent is set. Therefore there is no issue facing the country at this moment that is more important than this single issue, otherwise the status quo will ensure the repeat of what happened in the past and these new civilian leaders will return to their old ways under military over lordship. The problems of the people that have continued in the past though military dictatorships and the ‘stop-gap’ civilian rule under military over lordship will continue as in the past. The only difference is that time has almost run out to keep with the same forumula. If PPP prevents the restoration of the judges, the PML-N should resign wholesale from the cabinet and the parliament and join the lawyers movement and other assorted boycotters to challenge the farcial elections of February '08 and to restore the constitution which de-facto is still in abeyance, and will be until and unless the judges are restored and the person sitting in the presidential chair is removed for illegally occupying it.
Another unintended consequence of the US/Pakistan Army elections of '08 is the fact that Nawaz Sharif has a personal axe to grind against Musharraf, for the purpose of which he is taking the just and correct stand on the judges- the people and the lawyers should encourage this (personal enmity) and take it to its logical conclusion, a liberation of the presidential office from being a proxy of the Pakistan Army (and its US masters). That the Pakistan Army/US is resisting the restoration of judges proves that the restoration of the judges would set a really bad precedent for military rule in Pakistan (which the Americans desire because they work primarily through the military institution in our country), and would be a unique step towards damaging army rule; all the more that it must be accomplished as priority # 1- regardless of the personality of the deposed Chief Justice. It is not about the man but about restoration of a structure that would be conducive to democracy. Otherwise, the new PML-Q in the making (i.e. PPP and PML-N), will both be destroyed as political forces in the country- the people gave them a clear mandate and now these "incorporated to salvage the military" parties will lose their base of support, the military will emerge from these manipulations stronger than ever, and other than the lawyers’ movement the people of Pakistan will have nothing to fall back upon. That is why the restoration of the judges is priority #1 in order to salvage the nation and save its people from poverty, illiteracy and injustice. If the judiciary is not restored nothing changes, on the other hand, restoring them adds not only legitimacy to the civilian leadership with the people, it fragments the absolute power of the military in political affairs which is unprecedented (therefore it sets a bad precedent for the military) in the history of Pakistani politics (under de-facto military rule even during the so-called 'democratic' periods), a defeat for the military by the civilian leadership of this country- that is why it is not being allowed.
Eighty one percent of the people of Pakistan want the restoration of the judges, not because they love Chief Justice Ifthikhar Chaudry but because they hate Musharraf and want an end to military rule, direct or via a proxy. When the PPP agreed to the restoration of the judges and then waffled, it is seen by the people as being in bed with the military and with Musharraf- this does not sit well with the people of Sindh, just as it does not sit well with the people of Punjab . The PML-N if it quits, resigns and takes to the street will develop "street power" because of the changed situation, it will boost the lawyers’ movement and bring to an end this February ‘08 farcial election's attempt to maintain the status quo. This issue is a make or break issue for current political inroads through the present parliament for the people. The military will emerge stronger from the whole scenario if the PML-N decides to stay and the judges are not restored, and the PPP will be destroyed as a people's political party by hobnobbing with the generals and the current president. The status quo and working within the same structure that manipulates and corrupts politicians all for the purpose of strengthening the military and the US in our affairs will not achieve anything. The military has meticulously planned the destruction of the PPP and Zardari is helping them achieve that end.
Elections carried out after military manipulations and a declaration of emergency, not to mention the butchering of the main political party's leader (Benazir Bhutto), and then dictating to that party whose leadership was usurped by someone(Zardari) who has no real political history in that party whatsoever, who is trying to legitimize these entire manipulations including the emergency, where reconciliation means getting everyone on board with the military and destroying the legitimacy of any and every civilian alternative to it, by wiping out the major political parties' support-base in this careless manner, will ensure that nothing gets accomplished for the people of this country: Over 84% of whom are living below $2 a day (most below $1 a day), while water, electricity and food shortages are endemic and widespread, national debts have grown enormously, there is runaway inflation, rampant illiteracy, an unmanageable, young population and happenings on the western border with almost daily American meddling that is ensuring a physical break-up of the country. That is why the stand on the judiciary is issue #1 facing this nation, that first step will go a long way in changing this structure of manipulation, and it will be a major (not a minor) defeat for the military in political affairs. It is priority #1, for this reason alone, regardless of the person of Chief Justice Chaudhry. It is not about restoring a person but a first step in restoring democracy in this nation, a nation on its death-bed, a first step to get the Pakistan Army/US out of our political affairs, and to rid the country of the side-effects (mentioned above) of such meddling. There is no alternative.
Regards
Why Restoring the Deposed Judges is Priority #1 for Pakistan
M. Asadi
The most important issue facing the country today is the restoration of the judges. The ‘Judicial Crisis’ before Musharraf’s November ‘07 emergency was manufactured by the Pakistan Army/US in order to get Musharraf (who had fallen out of favor with the people and with the Americans) out of his uniform, staying in which he would have damaged the military and hence US interests in the region. This manipulation produced the unintended consequence of the lawyers’ movement. It is a movement that does not see eye to eye with the judges. Therefore when the judges termed the objection against Musharraf's presidential election "unmanageable" allowing him to go ahead with what was illegal, the lawyers took to the streets to protest this same court with the same judges they now support. The restoration of these judges who were removed unconstitutionally by Musharraf sets a very bad precedent for military rule (and therefore it is being opposed by the president, by the military and by the Americans), more so than any alliance that the PPP or PML-N can come up with, which thus far has been a molding of them into the PML-Q image, to legitimize the recent elections, that produced the results we saw in order to salvage military rule in this country. If this country has to change towards a democratic future then the judges must be restored immediately, the restored court will be beholden more to the people and the lawyers movement than to the military if such a precedent is set. Therefore there is no issue facing the country at this moment that is more important than this single issue, otherwise the status quo will ensure the repeat of what happened in the past and these new civilian leaders will return to their old ways under military over lordship. The problems of the people that have continued in the past though military dictatorships and the ‘stop-gap’ civilian rule under military over lordship will continue as in the past. The only difference is that time has almost run out to keep with the same forumula. If PPP prevents the restoration of the judges, the PML-N should resign wholesale from the cabinet and the parliament and join the lawyers movement and other assorted boycotters to challenge the farcial elections of February '08 and to restore the constitution which de-facto is still in abeyance, and will be until and unless the judges are restored and the person sitting in the presidential chair is removed for illegally occupying it.
Another unintended consequence of the US/Pakistan Army elections of '08 is the fact that Nawaz Sharif has a personal axe to grind against Musharraf, for the purpose of which he is taking the just and correct stand on the judges- the people and the lawyers should encourage this (personal enmity) and take it to its logical conclusion, a liberation of the presidential office from being a proxy of the Pakistan Army (and its US masters). That the Pakistan Army/US is resisting the restoration of judges proves that the restoration of the judges would set a really bad precedent for military rule in Pakistan (which the Americans desire because they work primarily through the military institution in our country), and would be a unique step towards damaging army rule; all the more that it must be accomplished as priority # 1- regardless of the personality of the deposed Chief Justice. It is not about the man but about restoration of a structure that would be conducive to democracy. Otherwise, the new PML-Q in the making (i.e. PPP and PML-N), will both be destroyed as political forces in the country- the people gave them a clear mandate and now these "incorporated to salvage the military" parties will lose their base of support, the military will emerge from these manipulations stronger than ever, and other than the lawyers’ movement the people of Pakistan will have nothing to fall back upon. That is why the restoration of the judges is priority #1 in order to salvage the nation and save its people from poverty, illiteracy and injustice. If the judiciary is not restored nothing changes, on the other hand, restoring them adds not only legitimacy to the civilian leadership with the people, it fragments the absolute power of the military in political affairs which is unprecedented (therefore it sets a bad precedent for the military) in the history of Pakistani politics (under de-facto military rule even during the so-called 'democratic' periods), a defeat for the military by the civilian leadership of this country- that is why it is not being allowed.
Eighty one percent of the people of Pakistan want the restoration of the judges, not because they love Chief Justice Ifthikhar Chaudry but because they hate Musharraf and want an end to military rule, direct or via a proxy. When the PPP agreed to the restoration of the judges and then waffled, it is seen by the people as being in bed with the military and with Musharraf- this does not sit well with the people of Sindh, just as it does not sit well with the people of Punjab . The PML-N if it quits, resigns and takes to the street will develop "street power" because of the changed situation, it will boost the lawyers’ movement and bring to an end this February ‘08 farcial election's attempt to maintain the status quo. This issue is a make or break issue for current political inroads through the present parliament for the people. The military will emerge stronger from the whole scenario if the PML-N decides to stay and the judges are not restored, and the PPP will be destroyed as a people's political party by hobnobbing with the generals and the current president. The status quo and working within the same structure that manipulates and corrupts politicians all for the purpose of strengthening the military and the US in our affairs will not achieve anything. The military has meticulously planned the destruction of the PPP and Zardari is helping them achieve that end.
Elections carried out after military manipulations and a declaration of emergency, not to mention the butchering of the main political party's leader (Benazir Bhutto), and then dictating to that party whose leadership was usurped by someone(Zardari) who has no real political history in that party whatsoever, who is trying to legitimize these entire manipulations including the emergency, where reconciliation means getting everyone on board with the military and destroying the legitimacy of any and every civilian alternative to it, by wiping out the major political parties' support-base in this careless manner, will ensure that nothing gets accomplished for the people of this country: Over 84% of whom are living below $2 a day (most below $1 a day), while water, electricity and food shortages are endemic and widespread, national debts have grown enormously, there is runaway inflation, rampant illiteracy, an unmanageable, young population and happenings on the western border with almost daily American meddling that is ensuring a physical break-up of the country. That is why the stand on the judiciary is issue #1 facing this nation, that first step will go a long way in changing this structure of manipulation, and it will be a major (not a minor) defeat for the military in political affairs. It is priority #1, for this reason alone, regardless of the person of Chief Justice Chaudhry. It is not about restoring a person but a first step in restoring democracy in this nation, a nation on its death-bed, a first step to get the Pakistan Army/US out of our political affairs, and to rid the country of the side-effects (mentioned above) of such meddling. There is no alternative.
Regards
#102 Posted by bulleya on May 13, 2008 2:07:44 am
...it is difficult to figure out what the ppp will gain from its current stance on judges......
i am in pakistan at the moment, and one can feel the sand slipping away from under ppp's feet......everyone is supporting nawaz sharif - from the lawyers, to the civil society to the media to everyone else......if elections are held today, a coalition of pml-n/ji/pti/baluch nationalists would win three provices.......while ppp would be left to rural sind........not sure where anp would end up....
.....ppp has tied itself up with the two entities, currently, which are truly disliked in pakistan - musharraf and usa (not to mention with mqm, which is disliked everywhere other than in urban sindh)....
why in the world has it done so, and let nawaz step ahead of the game.......even though, it was the ppp which fought the anti-establishment war against musharraf.....
nawaz sharif and family ran away to saudi arabia - running away, instead of going to jail is the ultimate political suicide in pakistani politics.......other than javed hashmi, none of the pml-n leaders spent any time in jail.....the pml split up into factions; most of it turning into lotas.......it was allied with maulvis who got a severe beating in the elections......
.....on the other hand, ppp did not split too much....its top leaders went to jail - zardari, gilani, naveed qamar......they became the opposition......its leader - benazir - died in a manner which many ppp workers blame on musharraf......it took on the mqm in karachi.....it took on the maulvis everywhere.....
so nawaz sharif spends his time in a palace in saudi arabia, while zardari/gilani spend their time in jail cells.....yet, ppp has now allowed pml-n to steal the show.......a show - freedom of judiciary - which pml-n had nothing to do with......freedom of judiciary (and media) is something pml-n pposed tooth and nail, when in power........
........i think ppp's internal structures are out of touch with reality......there brightest mind and only true urban leader - aitezaz ahsan - is in conflict with them and may be left out in the cold........
......pakistan is evolving from feudal/pir political structures to an urban democratic strucutre.......even a cynic like me has had to accept this after seeing the reusults of the recent elections.....
pml-n has evolved with this structure.....it has no feudal structures left any more....it is a true urban and non-pir party......its complete top leadership is non-feudal.....
ppp is the oppposite.....its manifesto is progressive, its leadership if feudal/pir.....
hence, i think what the ppp is doing now, is simply to secure zardari's NRO.....it is the singular decision of a feudal head, which the party is forced to follow, due to its dynastic and feudalistic history......i am quite sure the rank and file of ppp and most of its leaders must be opposed to it......i am 100% sure yusuf gilani is opposed to it.......and it is obvious aitezaz ahsan is opposed to it.....jehangir badr, raza rabbani (the two other urban leaders; though non-electable) must be opposed to it, also......
anyways, ppp is missing the bus, to save zardari - who has no political background in the party......the three leaders after benazir should have been amin fahim (feudal), yusuf gilani (pir) and aitezaz ahsan (urban)......they are out of the loop.......
....lawyers and media are alreayd chomping at the bit to start their agitation.....they have tasted blood....apdm (ji/pti/baluch) are seeing their predictions coming true and will join it.....nawaz senses that he has stepped ahead of ppp, and will join it.......if civil society also joins it (whict it might, since ppp cannot go after it, like the army could), then ppp has had it........
ppp will then have only one option left.....join up with pml-q and mqm (and thus fully with musharraf), rely on us support and force pml-n into the opposition.......at which point, ppp will be reduced to a rural sindh party.....
all of this to save one person's personal assets.......
i am in pakistan at the moment, and one can feel the sand slipping away from under ppp's feet......everyone is supporting nawaz sharif - from the lawyers, to the civil society to the media to everyone else......if elections are held today, a coalition of pml-n/ji/pti/baluch nationalists would win three provices.......while ppp would be left to rural sind........not sure where anp would end up....
.....ppp has tied itself up with the two entities, currently, which are truly disliked in pakistan - musharraf and usa (not to mention with mqm, which is disliked everywhere other than in urban sindh)....
why in the world has it done so, and let nawaz step ahead of the game.......even though, it was the ppp which fought the anti-establishment war against musharraf.....
nawaz sharif and family ran away to saudi arabia - running away, instead of going to jail is the ultimate political suicide in pakistani politics.......other than javed hashmi, none of the pml-n leaders spent any time in jail.....the pml split up into factions; most of it turning into lotas.......it was allied with maulvis who got a severe beating in the elections......
.....on the other hand, ppp did not split too much....its top leaders went to jail - zardari, gilani, naveed qamar......they became the opposition......its leader - benazir - died in a manner which many ppp workers blame on musharraf......it took on the mqm in karachi.....it took on the maulvis everywhere.....
so nawaz sharif spends his time in a palace in saudi arabia, while zardari/gilani spend their time in jail cells.....yet, ppp has now allowed pml-n to steal the show.......a show - freedom of judiciary - which pml-n had nothing to do with......freedom of judiciary (and media) is something pml-n pposed tooth and nail, when in power........
........i think ppp's internal structures are out of touch with reality......there brightest mind and only true urban leader - aitezaz ahsan - is in conflict with them and may be left out in the cold........
......pakistan is evolving from feudal/pir political structures to an urban democratic strucutre.......even a cynic like me has had to accept this after seeing the reusults of the recent elections.....
pml-n has evolved with this structure.....it has no feudal structures left any more....it is a true urban and non-pir party......its complete top leadership is non-feudal.....
ppp is the oppposite.....its manifesto is progressive, its leadership if feudal/pir.....
hence, i think what the ppp is doing now, is simply to secure zardari's NRO.....it is the singular decision of a feudal head, which the party is forced to follow, due to its dynastic and feudalistic history......i am quite sure the rank and file of ppp and most of its leaders must be opposed to it......i am 100% sure yusuf gilani is opposed to it.......and it is obvious aitezaz ahsan is opposed to it.....jehangir badr, raza rabbani (the two other urban leaders; though non-electable) must be opposed to it, also......
anyways, ppp is missing the bus, to save zardari - who has no political background in the party......the three leaders after benazir should have been amin fahim (feudal), yusuf gilani (pir) and aitezaz ahsan (urban)......they are out of the loop.......
....lawyers and media are alreayd chomping at the bit to start their agitation.....they have tasted blood....apdm (ji/pti/baluch) are seeing their predictions coming true and will join it.....nawaz senses that he has stepped ahead of ppp, and will join it.......if civil society also joins it (whict it might, since ppp cannot go after it, like the army could), then ppp has had it........
ppp will then have only one option left.....join up with pml-q and mqm (and thus fully with musharraf), rely on us support and force pml-n into the opposition.......at which point, ppp will be reduced to a rural sindh party.....
all of this to save one person's personal assets.......
#100 Posted by masadi on May 12, 2008 11:47:42 pm
Free again, had been banned by Chowk Staff, anyway,
I have submitted an article to Chowk Staff on "Why Restoring the Judiciary is priority #1 for Pakistan" presents my views, most are stated under on the issue. In the note to editors I have asked them not to censor it so that there can be healthy discussion on the issue. Let us hope they don't take the Musharraf path of lies and censorship and barbarism....
I have submitted an article to Chowk Staff on "Why Restoring the Judiciary is priority #1 for Pakistan" presents my views, most are stated under on the issue. In the note to editors I have asked them not to censor it so that there can be healthy discussion on the issue. Let us hope they don't take the Musharraf path of lies and censorship and barbarism....
#98 Posted by pakistan3 on May 11, 2008 5:38:13 pm
Re: # 94
izuber sahib,
we started off on the wrong foot. This is what I wrote in reply to Hurricane sahib elsewhere.
Donot make any mistakes as I am a practicing Muslim, you seem to insinuate somehow I am not!!
Re: # 60
Hurricane sahib,
[Re:Kulharee, pakistan3,
izuber has said nothing offensive. You may think Islam is the root of all troubles, I think otherwise. It is a beautiful religion and I am hapy and proud to be a muslim.]
Hurricane sahib, where did I say anything against Islam? I am a practicing and passionate Muslim and resent being regarded otherwise.
I was talking in the context of some, taking it upon themselves to "evaluate" the Pakistani situation, social or otherwise, and dictate what Pakistan should or shouldn't look like when they chose not to live here themselves. As if we are part of some "experiment" for them.
By the same token, if where they live is SO bad and un Islamic, they are more than welcome to return to their motherland.
We can all share its fortunes and misfortunes, eat "aadhi roti" but with pride and make it work. No one should just assume the right to tel us what we should do when they don't actually live here!
Surely that is not a difficult point to understand?
I have to get going.
Allah nigehbaan
izuber sahib,
we started off on the wrong foot. This is what I wrote in reply to Hurricane sahib elsewhere.
Donot make any mistakes as I am a practicing Muslim, you seem to insinuate somehow I am not!!
Re: # 60
Hurricane sahib,
[Re:Kulharee, pakistan3,
izuber has said nothing offensive. You may think Islam is the root of all troubles, I think otherwise. It is a beautiful religion and I am hapy and proud to be a muslim.]
Hurricane sahib, where did I say anything against Islam? I am a practicing and passionate Muslim and resent being regarded otherwise.
I was talking in the context of some, taking it upon themselves to "evaluate" the Pakistani situation, social or otherwise, and dictate what Pakistan should or shouldn't look like when they chose not to live here themselves. As if we are part of some "experiment" for them.
By the same token, if where they live is SO bad and un Islamic, they are more than welcome to return to their motherland.
We can all share its fortunes and misfortunes, eat "aadhi roti" but with pride and make it work. No one should just assume the right to tel us what we should do when they don't actually live here!
Surely that is not a difficult point to understand?
I have to get going.
Allah nigehbaan
#97 Posted by nasah on May 11, 2008 1:55:35 pm
Re: # 90
"It is a disgusting discussion because it didn't suit your self riteous personality."
I would disagree that "it is a disgusting discussion" -- but I would agree that this discussion perhaps doesn't suit the self rioteous personality of anyone -- who lives in Karachi...:)
"It is a disgusting discussion because it didn't suit your self riteous personality."
I would disagree that "it is a disgusting discussion" -- but I would agree that this discussion perhaps doesn't suit the self rioteous personality of anyone -- who lives in Karachi...:)
#95 Posted by masadi on May 11, 2008 1:35:09 pm
Btw talking about radio, back in the 1980s, SW would catch Radio Moscow's clear english broadcasts, now they are missing, once in a while you can catch Voice of Russia, filling in the Vacuum however is China Radio International, with an American face but cruder propaganda than the more subtle propaganda of the VOA, BBC is still the best out there except when it comes to hot issues in which their pro-govt propaganda is quite obvious, like the Zimbabwe, Burma, China/Tibet case, it is quite blatant and much worse than what they used to broadcast in the past. On a clear night you can catch Radio Australia, and Radio Deutchevelle. Iranian radio broadcasts some leftist propaganda in English regularly. Radio Pakistan's broadcasts are still where they were back in the 1980s. Jesus-saves (freaks) from the US are all over the SW bands in order to fish souls for christ, and you can get all this "media freedom" for under Rs 300 ($4) if you can run into a Khan who is selling Chinese SW radios, freshly smuggled from the border.....enjoy
#94 Posted by izuber on May 11, 2008 12:39:28 pm
Re: # 87
Pakistan3 states:
"It is a disgusting discussion because it didn't suit your self riteous personality."
and then signs off as "idiot"
Had I known your level of "idiocracy" I would have saved some minutes and mileage responding to you as my brothers in Islam are better than your sign off.
Pakistan3 states:
"It is a disgusting discussion because it didn't suit your self riteous personality."
and then signs off as "idiot"
Had I known your level of "idiocracy" I would have saved some minutes and mileage responding to you as my brothers in Islam are better than your sign off.
#92 Posted by masadi on May 11, 2008 12:17:29 pm
pakistan3 writes "Before Mush, this WAS unthinkable in Pakistan, or wasn't it?
Let us give credit where it is due."
Horse shit. People who have lived in Pakistan pre 1999 coup know very well that i) CNN was being broadcast almost 24/7 free for all by the national television service
2) People had satellite dishes and could get assorted channels w/o censorship
3) Lahore could get Indian channels with the most vile anti Pak govt propaganda at time
4)BBC urdu was easily accessible with better more open analysis than anything on the current media to every chowkidar with an SW radio
In this context and in the changed relationship with the Americans who wanted inroads into this country (and who fund many of these channels) the Army propaganda machine allowed them to benefit from them, only when the military started using them against the current dictator to get his wardi off (with American support) did the fool (after claiming credit for all of them) clamp down in the mist vile way (worse than Zia ul Fcuk) to punish them and this country saw a media blackout unforseen before.
Now these goddamned a-hole generals like to take credit for everything, converting a propaganda noise generating nonsense as if it were freedom and when it goes against the implicit controls that are understood clamping on them- and denying censorship, the fact is they'd cut the toungue out of every Pakistani if they were to voice dissent that causes trouble for them. Information cannot be controlled, it couldn't before Musharraf and it certainly couldn't even when he clamped down on the media...
Let us give credit where it is due."
Horse shit. People who have lived in Pakistan pre 1999 coup know very well that i) CNN was being broadcast almost 24/7 free for all by the national television service
2) People had satellite dishes and could get assorted channels w/o censorship
3) Lahore could get Indian channels with the most vile anti Pak govt propaganda at time
4)BBC urdu was easily accessible with better more open analysis than anything on the current media to every chowkidar with an SW radio
In this context and in the changed relationship with the Americans who wanted inroads into this country (and who fund many of these channels) the Army propaganda machine allowed them to benefit from them, only when the military started using them against the current dictator to get his wardi off (with American support) did the fool (after claiming credit for all of them) clamp down in the mist vile way (worse than Zia ul Fcuk) to punish them and this country saw a media blackout unforseen before.
Now these goddamned a-hole generals like to take credit for everything, converting a propaganda noise generating nonsense as if it were freedom and when it goes against the implicit controls that are understood clamping on them- and denying censorship, the fact is they'd cut the toungue out of every Pakistani if they were to voice dissent that causes trouble for them. Information cannot be controlled, it couldn't before Musharraf and it certainly couldn't even when he clamped down on the media...
#91 Posted by Urstruly on May 11, 2008 11:01:23 am
hamidm sahib before you flush the toilet, I must remind you that we are not just talking about CJ, there are 60 other judges too; and many more who resigned on the call of their conscience.
I still believe that the future of your superpower and its local chamchas and lotas in this country have been numbered.
#90 Posted by pakistan3 on May 11, 2008 10:33:16 am
Re: # 87
It is a disgusting discussion because it didn't suit your self riteous personality.
Idiots!
Go home to your confy beds now whilst we struggle with the load shedding, mosquitos, heat, and the like
Allah nigehbaan
It is a disgusting discussion because it didn't suit your self riteous personality.
Idiots!
Go home to your confy beds now whilst we struggle with the load shedding, mosquitos, heat, and the like
Allah nigehbaan
#89 Posted by izuber on May 11, 2008 10:18:11 am
Re: # 87
Understood HP, this needs to be concluded.
Understood HP, this needs to be concluded.
#88 Posted by izuber on May 11, 2008 10:17:15 am
Re: # 86
Wake up Pakistan3, you cant survive without us, and your frequenting here is a proof of that, otherwise you would have gone back to your cage and stayed there.
When the people forget their creator/sustainer the wrath of Allah SWT descends in many shapes and forms like natural disasters, cruel rulers, shortage of food, famine and much more. Not only the Muslims of America but also some from other faiths as well become concerned about the "people" in Pakistan and do all they can to help their brotherhood in that part of the world.
But, it hurts to see the arrogance of some brainless emotional people alike you and all we can say is a prayer that Allah SWT comforts you folks better than he has provided for us so that you get out of this envying, ameen.
According to a Hadith, the Prophet PBUH has recommended that when you see or feel that another person has something that your eyes cant avoid, dont envy, instead pray to Allah SWT(sincerity is a must) seeking for yourself as well, as Allah SWT is pleased when you dont envy and seek.
Come to senses Pakistan3.
Wake up Pakistan3, you cant survive without us, and your frequenting here is a proof of that, otherwise you would have gone back to your cage and stayed there.
When the people forget their creator/sustainer the wrath of Allah SWT descends in many shapes and forms like natural disasters, cruel rulers, shortage of food, famine and much more. Not only the Muslims of America but also some from other faiths as well become concerned about the "people" in Pakistan and do all they can to help their brotherhood in that part of the world.
But, it hurts to see the arrogance of some brainless emotional people alike you and all we can say is a prayer that Allah SWT comforts you folks better than he has provided for us so that you get out of this envying, ameen.
According to a Hadith, the Prophet PBUH has recommended that when you see or feel that another person has something that your eyes cant avoid, dont envy, instead pray to Allah SWT(sincerity is a must) seeking for yourself as well, as Allah SWT is pleased when you dont envy and seek.
Come to senses Pakistan3.
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