Can the Judiciary Save the Coalition?

the New Q in the making (PPP) will suffer the same fate as the old Q, it will be converted into nothing if the military is successful in getting what it wants....

HP writes "Only the Pmln has tied its political fortunes with the Judiciary issue. Other parties are not in the assemblies. So only Nawaz would worry abt the fall out."

This is certainly not the case, 81% want the restoration of the judges not because they love the CJ but because they hate Musharraf. When the PPP agreed to this and then waffled, it is seen as being in bed with the military and with Musharraf- that will not sit well with the people of Sindh, just as it will not sit well with the people of Punjab. The N if it quits, resigns and takes to the street will develop "street power" because of the changed situation, it will boost the lawyers movement and bring to an end this farcial elections attempt to maintain the status quo. I have thought this out and I still maintain what I said. This issue is a make or break issue for current political inroads through the present parliament for the people. The military will emerge stronger from the whole scenario if the N decides to stay and the judges are not restored, and the PPP will be destroyed as a people's political party by hobnobbing with the generals and their excrement (Musharraf). No question about it. It is a very different country now and NS can very well emerge as the street politician if he breaks from this farce. His personal grudge against Musharraf gives us hope towards that end. The status quo and working within the same structure that manipulates and corrupts politicians all for the purpose of strengthning the military and the US in our affairs will not achieve anything. The military has meticuloulsy planned the destruction of the PPP and Zardari is helping them achieve their end....

Asadi,
I think you have met some block. It could be the current day to day charged up environments in Pakistan or for some reason you have stopped thinking.

“If they are not restored and it seems they wont be, like I said, it will damage the political parties- as you also seem to concur regarding Sind- and the military will emerge from this stronger than ever.”

You obviously don’t know the Sindh situation. There aren’t very many choices. Sindhi don’t like the deal but they are stuck with the PPP. In fact, it is the situation in Sindh that is forcing the PPP to stay in power. Only the Pmln has tied its political fortunes with the Judiciary issue. Other parties are not in the assemblies. So only Nawaz would worry abt the fall out.

“Therefore this was at this time, the issue #1 facing the country and its future which has apparently been squandered, it can be salvaged by the PML-N quitting the govt, resigning from the parliament,”

It was issue #1 in Punjab and not in any other province.
Quitting the assemblies would be suicidal. Nawaz has no strength on the streets. He is not the type of politician who works the streets. He needs to stay in the coalition and let the lawyers and other parties take the streets. He needs to hang on to the Punjab government for as long as he could to allow the lawyers and others to build momentum. But my thinking is that as soon as he leaves the federal Govt, the army would exert pressure on the PPP to remove his party from power in Punjab. They will use the PPP and not Musharaf to do that. If he quits the assemblies, he would be giving up 90 seats to the army’s handpicked people. We also need to understand that NAWAZ has limits. He is no revolutionary. He is approachable and he will be kept as an alternate to play the musical chairs that the army orchestrated in the 80s and 90s.

You see the things would continue to get grimmer and with economic and the power situation in the country as it is now, no one knows how people would respond. If it gets ugly, we may see the army on the streets but I am sure that the agencies are working on all the scenarios too. The process to break up the PMLn would also start immediately after Nawaz leaves the Fed government.

The poor people of pakistan seeking the rule of law in the country and asking for CJs restoration should realise that the entire country and all walks of society in pakistan are corrupt, and pakistan deserves euthenasia.

Cry pakis cry


33pc of exports are fake, minister told



By Parvaiz Ishfaq Rana


KARACHI, May 9: The federal commerce minister was briefed about the issue of fraudulent exports in a meeting of the Export Advisory Committee held in Islamabad recently to discuss the new trade policy.

Shahid Khaqan Abbasi was informed that certain exporters mis-declared their goods to take undue advantage of the export incentives. They are sending cotton/textile waste in the name of leather garments to claim higher rate of duty drawback, a source privy to the meeting told Dawn.

A visionary pakistani.

Political future


AS of today the following scenario best fits our political future: Pervez Musharraf and Asif Ali Zardari cannot afford to reinstate Iftikhar Chaudhary. The May 12 deadline passes without event.

The Pakistan Muslim League (N) is forced to quit the coalition. The lawyers, the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (Qazi group), the PML(N), the TI, society as a whole take to the streets. Everything comes to a standstill and there is chaos.

Mr Musharraf is happy, the Americans are delighted, Mr Zardari goes away to enjoy his billions and Mr Kayani takes over to bring peace and prosperity to the nation and promises elections in 60 days.

HAROON PARACHA
Karachi

Hp

"So stop crying over the CJ. I hope people keep fighting and someday you will have more than one principled CJ."

The CJ is no hero, he is as corrupt and as partial as any one before him and after him. Only fact is that he turned out to be anti mushy that is all which found a vibe with not the paki public, but with a few lawyers.

This CJ was not impartial or upheld the law, his talk about burying the doctrine of necessity whih has been upheld and found valid by the supre court several times, he wanted to bury it.

Hence he was sacked, because he was planning to unseat mushy.

It will be the doom of pakistan when more such CJs emerge.

Coincinding with Zardari's meeting with Altaf Hussein yesterday was the meeting of the whore (US Ambassador) with the MQM leadership in Karachi yesterday, not to mention the US invitation to the mayor of Karachi who is/was in the US this past week, and the meeting in Dubai that Anne W(hore) Peterson had with the MQM in Dubai two weeks back. Seems like micro managing political alliances to me. If Musharraf wasn't there the N would just as soon blend into the status quo, it is a blessing for us that he is, so the N has a grudge, and if taken to its logical conclusion (the restoration of the judges and the removal of the a-hole) it will be more beneficial to the political process in this country than having no a-hole to begin with. The 9 years that he destroyed this country piece by piece is lost, than can never be recovered...

HP writes "Aitzaz kept warning them in the court for at least a week that emergency is coming but they ignored him until 3rd Nov and then too, they did not issue a stay until late in the evening."

Like I mentioned in my first post here there was a disconnect between the lawyers movement and the judiciary when they let Musharraf go ahead with his election, they protested and that protest did make a difference be it incremental- that was my point, now it will make a more than incremental change if they are restored because the civilian government and not only the lawyer's movement would have won a major victory against the military/US, the change would be greater than before and that is what I guaranteed, let it happen (though the powers that be wont let it) and you'll see........

HP writes "Do you really believe that Zadari and Nawaz did not know what the hurdles would be? .."

Zardari made a deal with the devil, regarding Nawaz like I said earlier, he has a personal axe to grind against the a-hole in the presidency, which has kept him on the right track, the track that is in tune with the political movement of the lawyers and one that will salvage his party even as Zardiari, who illegally took over the PPP, the nations only real political movement, is going to destroy it on behalf of the military........Incorporation and appeasement will result in the same old subordinate political areana, we need head on confrontation at this time when the military's rep with the people is at its lowest and in that the personal grudge of NS against the a-hole has provided a unique opportunity to the people of Pakistan...

HP writes "This is actually no argument at all. The Judges had a limit and even though they were under pressure from the lawyers, they managed to hold for enough time for the Army House to finish the Judiciary.."

It was actually a very good argument, there was a qualitative change in the relationship of the judiciary viz-a-viz the military, and now if they would be restored I can guarantee that it will be damaging to the military, its excrement and the US, that is why they are opposing it- that was another part of the argument. If they are not restored and it seems they wont be, like I said, it will damage the political parties- as you also seem to concur regarding Sind- and the military will emerge from this stronger than ever. Therefore this was at this time, the issue #1 facing the country and its future which has apparently been squandered, it can be salvaged by the PML-N quitting the govt, resigning from the parliament, calling the election farce (which was to salvage the military) and joining with the lawyers and raising hell, the Army needs to be on the streets and the people need to take care of them, otherwise the nation is on its deathbed, no ifs, ands or buts about it...............

#15 Posted by Urstruly
“That is where you are wrong. The judicial process does not and cannot work on perceptions (of corruption), it works on hard evidence, witness, and letter of the law.”

You are talking abt some ideal situation, not Pakistan. This is one country where the Supreme Courts manufactured laws on the fly to help the people in power.

Look your whole post is based on one person. That person cannot remain the CJ forever. And if he wants to support someone else, he can always change his mind.

His restoration is an issue when it is related to Mushraf and his unconstitutional actions but the problem in Pakistan is not Musharaf or the CJ. The problem is the Army which clearly has sold its soul to the US.

You cannot beat that army with one CJ here and there. His restoration would help but that is not going to stop the army from taking over some other time. In fact, the break up in dialog would help people understand the issues clearly and we may see some more militancy against the army.

The fight against the army will take a long time and I learned it a long time ago. Unfortunately, your political baptism was with the JI types who looked for immediate gratification in politics at that time. The Pak army would not let go of power. It will take some major and long hard efforts to get rid of them.

So stop crying over the CJ. I hope people keep fighting and someday you will have more than one principled CJ.

#23 Posted by masadi
“If that period produced such pressure to change an institution's historical role, prompting the general (then) to do what he did (his motive was also to save his uniform then, but the Americans directly got it off), imagine what the pressure would be on a restored judiciary, restored by civilian dictate to do the right thing. I believe my points are very solid...”

This is actually no argument at all. The Judges had a limit and even though they were under pressure from the lawyers, they managed to hold for enough time for the Army House to finish the Judiciary. You can check the record, Aitzaz kept warning them in the court for at least a week that emergency is coming but they ignored him until 3rd Nov and then too, they did not issue a stay until late in the evening.
I understand that political activism needs some hope to keep it going but you are not an activist and should be able to figure out the whole thing.

I am not against the restoration of judges. I think it should be done but I also think the political parties did not handle it well enough. Do you really believe that Zadari and Nawaz did not know what the hurdles would be? Was Nawaz really taking that as an easy issue? I also know for sure that Zardari had apprised Nawaz of all the pressures he was under. People in Sindh are upset too. Zardari knew there will be some political backlash but really choices were very limited. The US came out strongly for Musharaf. The army cannot go against the US even if it means country going to dogs.

Re: # 26 General's departure will make main benefactors of country USA and China and Saudi and all muslim nations angry and sad at same time.

Only foreign minister seems to be doing work. He went to china with president. Also he was amd mr.Z is of opinion departure of general will make our major benefactor USA and China.
Hope he also pays attention to Kashmir problem as Indians are getting free run and that can lead to war. Recent Launching by F-16 cruse missile was greatly satisfying to people as not no major dam , factory or city can be protected against missiles cruse type ground hugging and closing fast on target by india disturbs indian military planners.
"“Time has come we have to look towards East,” he said, citing the “all-weather friend” China and regional economic forums such as the Asean on which Pakistan “must put more focus”.

The minister, who accompanied President Pervez Musharraf during a visit to China last month, said Beijing was ready to give cheap credit to help Pakistan’s development programme and its leaders had promised to encourage its major companies to increase investment in Pakistan at a time when investors from other countries hesitated to come here."
It only general and defence chief are working made working visit to china to strengthen special relationship. Rupee is sinking only good out of is exporters have edge of indian and china exports.
Rest all bad, its darkness at noon and general as sun is in deoression phase not good for country

Mr. Masadi, HP , Mujumdar and all...... You all been right in many ways.
CJ stuff helped to damage general and withstanding that same CJ person has accepted and sanctified general. I feel it is sad the poitical parties can distract mainattention from real country facing more not so moral but mortal problems of inflation of essentrial basic like wheat, atta,fuel and general down grading of law and order. Real inflation is definitely raging like wild fire and I can note in the amount spent by my wife and how much reduced things she buys just a year back. It is classical case of elites over concerned about CJ and Z and NS personal politics , like when rome was buring the roman emperor was busy with trivial thgings.
The way things are going is distressing. Look at in short time mr. Z and NS have gone out of country. Why future of pakistan not be decided in Lahore or karachi. Why need to all these leaders of PP and PML NS have to go to Dubai and then to London , tamasha , why take on world tour. Only excuse that can be accepted is MQM Chief is in London and he is crucial player and PPP chief mr. Bilawal Zardari Bhutto are in london. But there is no news anout meeting of 4 giants in london. Even for show when the discontent is at pick and people are very angry , instead of paying attention to read problems , people should feel the leaders are trying best, it absolutely does not appear. If take back yourself and look at problems they are huge like Me. Churchill faced and he stood eith his people, we have problems of Churchillian magnitude but no churchill in Site.
Every day passing is blowing of targets by BLA and religious warrier have met stalement with army. And NS and Z are worried about CJ. Even if CJ is restored and NRO is intact still there is no hope. It appears in first 40days the performance of govt is very negative and regressive. It appears the so called elected people have not offered any thing not even false hope. Rupee is constantly loosing against weakened dollar. Rupee has reached nadir but it is still going down does not seem to hit the bottom.
If these elected people do not do anything be atleast do not go on foreign trips when country is reaching bottom every way.
The talk of C J is totally discordant note and jarring. Tomorrow if if Zeemax goes with his G machine and cuts necks of all "leaders" nobody will miss them or shed tears but people will say make sure and trow in Arabian see for sharks.

asadi,
Will come back to your posts later.. Looks like this thing is over. Are the Lawyers and PMLn going to take over the streets now?