Nipa Chowrangi

Well written, but then again, the idea of getting a point through doesn't really work out enough. Appears more of a remnant; yes that of a woman making her way out of her grave instead of someone been beaten the life out.

The point here should have been to put forward Violence in a way that it appeals rather make people sympathize with the character (Woman).

Nonetheless neatly written.
Regards,
Sardar Mohkim Khan

Shandana, like how you write. Nice.

Just looking! What, nobody here?

Perhaps its wiser to legalise only the beating of women who identify themselves as Muslims.. and let all the normal people get on with their lives... after all ... they surely must as Muslim women condone themselves being given a good beating now and them...

hello she is the cheese :) good to hear you read it. looking forward to reading yours one day. when do i get to see you in a context that does not involve the consumption of coffee and cookies or a long long plane trip? love to the moose.

anNy: I wondered what happened to you 6 years ago - you had mentioned some incident just before you stopped writing, and I was hoping all was well with you.

Good to see you back - you were among the best chowk posters.

yes, anNy, we have grown older but not necessarily colder.

If you have time, you should consider re-starting your 'what are you reading series?' here.

6 years later and chowk retains it er, magic...:)

shandana, i hope you wont mind my referring to the book here.. i had a friend post tunnel vision from home since it wasnt to be found here and would you believe it, book actually got to me safe and sound... ayesha is stuck in my head and she wont leave

Re: # 64
And how do Indian alpha-males behave? Have you been able to prevent all the bride-burning episodes in India?

Re: # 63
ABCD, why must Krishna concern himself with 'halaal' and 'haraam'?

love it. aslam is a good instance of the creature that is the pakistani male.

#60 Salim_Chauhan

[Thank you for your extensive research on the subject. I am impressed by the number of different translations that you have read. ]

You mean the translations that mention that beating your wife is "halal"? Thanks.

#58 harish_hyd

[AFAIK, Shandana is a Christian. BTW, why are you picking on her? ]

AFAIK, I asked her a question. Whether she is Muslim. Why is that "picking on her"?

Re: # 60
Mr. Chauhan,

There are websites for these comparisons!

Although I am glad (al-hamdu lilah) that people are now in the comparison mode at CHOWK, quoting so many does not mean one has read them all. And reading all translations does not mean one has grasped the inner truth of ayahs or understood the translators' tilts.

Regards.

Krishna,
Thank you for your extensive research on the subject. I am impressed by the number of different translations that you have read.

why does Shandana's religion matter. Does what she wrote have anything to do with religion?

#57 by krishna_abcd

AFAIK, Shandana is a Christian. BTW, why are you picking on her?

Hey Shandana,

Are you another proud Islamic woman?

#54 by Salim

Aslam is a good Muslim. He is doing what is clearly sanctioned in Islam. Anyone who spins it otherwise, is merely "interpreting" the text to his/her convenience.

(please note - all occurances of beating "lightly" in the quotes below are interpretations by the translator - the qualification "lightly" is absent in the actual text)

1. Yusuf Ali:

"....As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."

2. Pickthal:

"...As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great."

3. Shakir:

"...and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

4. Al-Hilali & Mohsin Khan:

"....As to those women on whose part you see ill­conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great."

5. Dr. T.B. Irving:

"...Admonish those women whose surliness you fear, and leave them alone in their beds, and [even] beat them [if necessary]. If they obey you, do not seek any way [to proceed] against them. God is Sublime, Great."

6. Muhammad Sarwar:

"...Admonish women who disobey (God's laws), do not sleep with them and beat them. If they obey (the laws of God), do not try to find fault in them. God is High and Supreme."

7. Rashad Khalifa

"....If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme."

8. Abdul-Majid Daryabadi:

"...And those wives whose refractoriness ye fear, exhort them, and avoid them in beds, and beat them; but if they obey you, seek not a way against them; verily Allah is ever Lofty, Grand."

9. E.H. Palmer

"...But those whose perverseness ye fear, admonish them and remove them into bedchambers and beat them; but if they submit to you, then do not seek a way against them; verily, God is high and great."

10. Muhammad Ayub Khan:

"...And those whose rebellion you fear, admonish them and leave them alone in the beds, and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; God is surely High, Great."

11. Ahmed Raza Khan:

"...the women from whom you fear disobedience, (at first) advise them and (then) do not cohabit with them, and (lastly) beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek to do injustice to them; indeed Allah is Supreme, Great."

12. Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmad Darwish:

"...Those from whom you fear rebelliousness, admonish them and desert them in the bed and smack them (without harshness). Then, if they obey you, do not look for any way against them. Allah is High, Great."

13. Mahmud Y. Zayid:

"...and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

14. Muhammad Asad:

"...And as for those woolen whose ill-will" you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them ;4s and if thereupon..."

So Aslam wanted to bugger the little boy and was taking out his repressed feelings on his wife? Or he was just a run of the mill misogynist prick asserting his dominance?

Some cool visuals.

{"She slumped unconscious long before the power supply to their apartmentcomplex in Gulistan-i- Jauhar was restored, and he was able to peruse a good half hour of porn on the internet too.

That, Aslam thought as he came onto the landing to smoke- he didn’t like the smell of tobacco lingering in the house"}

Shandana,
Another brilliant effort on your part. I really enjoyed the macabre sensitivity of Aslam in not being able to tolerate the stench of stale tobacco in his house. You have captured the idiotic and cruel dichotomoy of this leper very well in this article.
While we hope that the "thump" was final and fatal, we need to amplify, ridicule, ban, and eradicate this all too common physical battering of the weak at the hands of the "strong." Of course, the bulk of the interacts will be consumed by "my mom's better than your mom" India/Pakistan, Hindu/Muslim rhetoric. The fact remains that the curse of domestic violence is rampant in all societies, including the self-righteous Hindus.

Re: # 52

[are suspense and surprise really that essential to it anymore?]

Well, only if one wants regular folks to read the work.

Things could be different if the target audience is limited to a bunch of university-types gulping away wine in a hi-fi restaurant, or blowing cigarette smoke into everyone's eyes, or looking frizzled and bearded and unkempt and wearing thick reading glasses - well, perhaps THEY will be able to enjoy the turns and twists of what happened inside the HEADS of individual characters since the turns and twists of the EVENTS is already known, and so forth. I mean, such work may even get nominated for some award (by other individuals with thick reading glasses) - but the average joker will simply yawn!

Re: # 47

thanks. it will. dont think can personally do justice to it at this point in time, so on to other stories about flowers, music and lambikins dancing around trees :)

bj, the novel as a form continues to evolve, are suspense and surprise really that essential to it anymore? as for women in the desi context, more and more women that i know are marrying for love, or waiting for love before getting married, or leaving a marriage when love dies.

Re: # 47

thanks. it will. dont think can personally do justice to it at this point in time, so on to other stories about flowers, music and lambikins dancing around trees :)

bj, the novel as a form continues to evolve, are suspense and surprise really that essential to it anymore? as for women in the desi context, more and more women that i know are marrying for love, or waiting for love before getting married, or leaving a marriage when love dies.

Re: # 47

thanks. it will. dont think can personally do justice to it at this point in time, so on to other stories about flowers, music and lambikins dancing around trees :)

bj, the novel as a form continues to evolve, are suspense and surprise really that essential to it anymore? as for women in the desi context, more and more women that i know are marrying for love, or waiting for love before getting married, or leaving a marriage when love dies.

Hay i really liked the way you write .... seriously you have guts to write man... :) .... and here is your present... join this network which has recently launched... for writers & artists ... http://megoh.com/

Re: # 47

[Two lovers arriving at this point of despair,the story would require a lot of probation.]

Not to mention a REAL stretch in credulity!! :)

Let us face it, in the desi context most such marriages take place because those are arranged by others and they continue because women have little choice but to put up with "it". What has love got to do with it?!

Re: #46

[the first chapter in another novel, told backwards]

That would kill the suspense and surprise for sure! Unless one is a shrink and interested in obtaining an insight into the minds (which would be of questionable value since, after all, it IS fiction!), it would hold little interest.

Two lovers arriving at this point of despair,the story would require a lot of probation.

good luck

thank you all for the comments, even the ones in german, they must have been a pain to type. all i can remember from my days at the goethe institute is ich habe keine ahnung and was ist los mit ihnen? perhaps a simple warum warum warum will suffice...

cocoon, good point about the visibility of the spit.

scout, short film? see below for why not right now.

iron mask, also a valid point. a little background to the story...i woke up early one morning a couple of months ago and felt the urge to write, something i had not felt for a while. as usual, i did not know what it was i was going to be writing. an hour later, i had this short piece, pretty much as it was now. it was my first introduction to tehmina and aslam. when i was done i let it be. a couple of weeks later i started feeling it was incomplete, that it was perhaps the first chapter in another novel, told backwards, about what brought two people in love to this point. it seems cut and dried, man beats wife, wife kills man, but the story as i felt it later was anything but. neither aslam or tehmina were the people i as a writer or a reader felt they were in this opening. the real story was how they were driven to this point by circumstances, loss, a host of things. part of me still wants to write it, but it is such a bleak bleak tale i do am repelled by the thought of experiencing it.

Re: # 43

Tahir,

Why does this moron insist on speaking to us in German?

Regards

The US Elite

Re: # 40

Urstruly,

(By the way I used to live at NIPA Chowrangi, and never found an indescent family like this one in the story. Ha! I am just kidding; GOD THAT WAS ONE FUKKED UP NEIBOURHOOD.)

Is this some sort of catharsis?

We hope you did better despite the difficulties encountered when you were young.

Regards

The US Elite

Re: # 41
Don' t tun dies Ihre eigene Mutter, Dummkopf an!

Re: # 36
Kommen Sie in Ihrem Rasereieinwohner von Hades…. um

Re: # 29

Hamidm2,

Tahir is still upset with us for playing his sister like a banjo on our knees.

She is quite happy with the new lifestyle but Tahir wants to invoke honour killing.

It is a shame as she told all twenty of us that he himself taught her all she knew, and she had a good time in the process.

Regards

The US Elite

It seems that the authoress wrote this when she was in grade 10. By the way I used to live at NIPA Chowrangi, and never found an indescent family like this one in the story. Ha! I am just kidding; God that was one fukked up neiborhood.

Shandana:

The way you laid out the story, I do not think it is written for Aslams. Tender imagination is not for them.

Wonderfully written for the rest of us.

did she push him off the fifth floor.I think the thump was meant for him.tehmina should actually have chopped his dick and given it to Ifti.You conjure the Image of such a bastard and keep him alive.The symbiosis , the violence against women , it does exist ,otherwise such stories do not take shape.It also seems improbable to spot a boy holding gaze and spittig from the fifth floor at quarter past nine in the light of the lamps.
narrative is impressive,the ineractors on the forum suck.

Re: # 3 big deal lady. She could have just used a shot gun and killed that bastard. She could have chopped his balls and giving him a slow painful death. you are a squeamish old woman.

So what is new in the story? I can google and find 100s if not 1000s of similar stuff from days gone by. Life and feminism have moved on. You have not. Stuck in the 1950's.

Tahir, Tausendkunst ein Bündel mit wenig Verständnis der englischen Sprache. Wenn Ihnen um um " gebeten werden; was Ihr Pork" ist; Sie Kippe, die es bedeutet….Bumsen gehen schauen oben ein Wörterbuch Sie Schwein. Sie mögen zeemadarchod verdienen auch, das gebratene Spucken zu sein und verließen dann mit einem Apfel in Ihrer Schnauze.

Re: # 29 hamimdm2 Tahir mian is like a little gadfly landing every where to regurgitate the same old muck .

The man is jealous of other having achieved than him on FP!

May be you should introduce him to the joys of salami and Wine, and a Canadian Ham and Cider and or Whiskey! He will enjoy the civilising effect - it is in his character. Its just that he has not seen it as yet.

Ms Minhas an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind.

The stroy was great. There was something there for everybody. However, you did not build up the character of the women - she who shoved the husband of the building.

We as readers arrived at the article with a certain sense of revulsion for the guy. So really what you did in terms of increasing this revulsion was minimal. There has to be a real indication of the psychological scars on the woman. This was missing.

Finally, just because wife-beating is bad and we feel both naturally, and rationally mitigated to take a stance against it does not mean we resort to the baser instincts to resolve the conflict. Shoving the guy off the building is the first instinct, a very base one at that. Given the nature of the set up and the description of the middle class environment, I would have expected to have seen something more far reaching in the article (esp coming from you!).

Re: # 29

Go ahead, have all the pork ribs alone at the table; I don't consume pork.

Ta-ta

"Only your husband or an elder in the family can shed a brighter light on that."

as if there weren't enough male chauvanist pigs trolling around chowk

yahan to pathar uthao, tahir jaisi koi cheez nikal aati hai

Re: # 17
"Tahir miaN is highly jealous of your work"

The line: "Bangalore mouth so wide open I entertain the thought of staging a leveraged buyout of his two gold teeth" in my recent article might have been for the likes of you.....

Do turn sixteen quickly!

Re: # 16
Miss Minhas,

Thanks for the reply and the time you spent reflecting.

For a writer to allow a ten-year old profile to remain unchanged is strange indeed. My suggestion was to re-phrase it.

Editing is part of life; writer always do it but many CHOWK interators just cannot.

As for "shandana minhas aspires to create enduring works of postcoital literature", what can I say? Only your husband or an elder in the family can shed a brighter light on that.

Regards.

PS: do read #28

Re: # 28

tahir mian,

.... what is your pork ?

Re: # 15
Dear Miss Minhas ka sala,

I'm assuming that the lady concerned is a Muslim woman, and grown up too. If your ladies speak of themselves in this manner, I probably would not mind, but a Muslim woman?

We have excellent examples on our side, must we ape this smarty-pants (panties in this case) style so popular in smart-alec cultures. We have pride AND shame, more than you'd like to have.

If you prefer sleeping, go do just that. Many here have indeed risen from their beds and understood why I say what I say. There's no evil, no sala-ness, or whatever it is that you imply behind my interacts.

Sometimes when I bend down to tie my shoelaces, dogs run off scared thinking I'm about to pick a stone and throw at them! This is how simple it is--unless you insist on wet-dreaming about some jihadi threat.

You just laaaahve women crying about their 'ooh la la' problems in Pakistan, don't you? Mind your own 'naris in saris' please.

India tops the list of countries whose crooked men have stashed away over 1.3 trillion ill-gotten Dollars (that's right!) in Swiss accounts! Worry about THAT and stop jeering at us!

And read #18 again.

this would make a nice short film with the graphic visuals and the succinct plot, have a go at it shandana?

Well written Shandana,

But the ending is a bit vague

for us non-artsy types.

Ras

Re: # 23

Hamidm2 sahib, I don't know that clown. All I know is he showed up here, started bad-mouthing the writer and when I defended her (not that she needs it), miaN HP took umbrage and started calling me by choice terms!

You really think HE has common sense?! Perhaps so, but his sense of jealousy overcomes everything else, apparently.

Well BJ,

I would rather not write, if have to plagiarize like you.
Being a leech or a stalker is no qualification.

bj,

... i have to admit you are a pretty good writer (you should write more often) but you don't have half of hp's common sense .... oh well, you can't have everything ......

.... now this tahir guy - who the hell is this clown ?

..... will someone push tahir off the balcony and put him out of his misery?

.... shandana, nice job ....

BTW, HP, I think YOU can not write worth a fart!

Re: # 19

Kambakhat, if that is true the darn thing is too subtle for me! :)

Re: # 18

Yaar HP, you are another absolute bhanDua in your own right! I did not mean to feel you left out, it is just that Tahir miaN needed some attention. Sorry!

Every one of you is full of shit.
You guys do not know how to read.learn to read a story,
learn to read between the lines.the woman killed her
husband and none of you even know about that.
i am glad she killed the bastard.if she got a chance she is going to kill you idiots too.

Instead of discussing what she wrote, this BJ would rather discuss her.

I don't know whats with this person that he wants to stalk every women writer or interactor on Chowk. This is just so pathetic and on top of that he is intellectually dwarf, physically a pygmy, and mentally a midget who can't even figure out the difference between comments and the issues.
get lost...sometimes pay attention to your own wife, i.e if you have any!

Re: # 16

Shandana, the "old" profile is great. I personally found it very funny, witty and unique.

Obviously, Tahir miaN is highly jealous of your work. He wishes he could write like you (and hopefully make tonnes of money) - but he is lacking the "tools"! So he - like the Aslam - resorts to using the one between his legs.

So, he tries to come here and start talking absurd inanities. It is the same trick this guy pulled on Azra's board earlier.

It does not work!

He still looks foolish.

middle class babablacksheep, india pakistan insults, gentle ana, it's good to be back on chowk...thank you all for reading and responding :)

tahir, is editing/erasing the past different from rewriting it? is either ok? have been considering what you said about the profile i created several years ago being 'disturbing', what do you think about 'shandana minhas aspires to create enduring works of postcoital literature' instead?

Re: # 14

[What we, as Pakistanis, should or should not feel must be left to us.]

That is what the world thought for a long time and let you and your stupid pals be.

Big mistake! You guys don't DESERVE to be left alone. You guys make the most horrible messes and the world is tired of cleaning up after you all.

Sala you Islamist and your pals - they hold that place hostage - by the balls! Nobody dares to even squeak - because your harami jihadi pals are always ready with that dagger!

One squeak from any of the oppressed Pakistanis - and that sala mullah (YOU) goes:

"Apostasy, apostasy, apostasy! Maaro, maaro, maaro!"

You salaas don't deserve to be left alone! Otherwise sooner or later, you saalas will blow the place up and take the neighborhood with you!

It takes a lot of guts to write the type of stuff the Minhas writes - the serious stuff - in her own witty style!

The stuff that is real!

It is the easiest thing to do the crappy, crappy vomit that you occasionally relieve yourself of on these pages here. Saala, you feel rather proud of that lothra hanging between your legs, not realizing that it is merely your useliess device to hurt women. You saala don't have the reality, nor the skill!

Saala, you are the ultimate coward - you don't even dare to bring up the issue of beating women. Saala, you probably identify with that Aslam creep in this story!

Saala coward, making a pathetic attempt to ridicule the writer instead! Saala, nobody buys your stupidity!

Re: # 13
Are you Miss Minhas?

Not only are you not gentle, you're not even a man. And you're definitely not a writer!

What we, as Pakistanis, should or should not feel must be left to us. Mind your own suicidal farmers out in India.

And never give up your regular job of performing BJs. Never be ashamed to admit who you really are. You blow people up and away.

Over and out.

Tahir miaN,

I think Pakistanis should be rather glad that they have one or two REAL writers, instead of the useless bhanDuas like you!

Regards,
Everybody!

Re: # 10, #11

Tahir miaN, she only meant in a literary figurative way what YOU do in real life in actuality!

That's all!

And:

"(being the butt), .... a lecher, .... a bimbo"

With so much talent at your disposal, you may wish to edit your PROFILE at CHOWK. The information is disturbing!

Miss Minhas,

What do you mean when you say "Been a word prostitute for publications".

I thought you were a writer?

The men who physically and emotionally abuse women in their lives are very much “real”, and they are in abundance.

Shandana, sad story.

Re: # 6 naqsh

(((("A man who hits a woman can never be a real man!" - Don Corleone.)))

what has erection and ejaculation(being a Real Man) to do with hitting or not hitting a woman????

This scene is considered as the hottest and sexiest scene in the recent history of hollywood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSEY0q1POE0

Now whether james spades is a real man or not but one things is obvious that maggie gllynhall certainly is a real woman.

Naqsh, Was that Vito Corleone or Michael Corleone, because Michael did hit his wife Kay - thus not a real man.

Apologize for the sidetrack. . .

"A man who hits a woman can never be a real man!" - Don Corleone.

Re: # 3
An interactor who insists on calling himself a sauce is just that! No beef, all dripping sauce!

"The least you could have done is to increase the nausea level of the readers. Atleast Tahir and zeemax do it here regularly and they abused for it. Abey Tahir and zeemax you guys needs to wear the abuse as badges of honor!"

I'm a writer, in case you missed the articles. Can YOU write? I hope you do one day. Writers have their own yardsticks to measure success. While the senseless ones always attack whoever talks sense, sensible ones also reserve the right to crack open the sick skulls of attackers who utter non-sense. Behaviour that resembles that of a mad attack-dog is not my way; it remains that of others who attack me giving themselves idiotic reasons to do just that.

Does writing that lulls you to sleep make you happy as a reader?

Re: # 3 HP;
tell me what is new in this article?
Murder.

lady, i think you are one, tell me what is new in this article?

OK, what you say had to be said. Woman beating is not new, but our understanding of the Trauma and our understanding of the effects of this trauma across generations has increased and has been vocalised like never before.

But what is new in your article? What is the great new insight you are providing to us the readers here? I can go to any of the mohullas and see this repeated in almost every house-hold.

The least you could have done is to increase the nausea level of the readers. Atleast Tahir and zeemax do it here regularly and they abused for it.

Abey Tahir and zeemax you guys needs to wear the abuse as badges of honor!

You lady authoress had a great opportunity here but you seem to have missed it and fallen into the middle-class baababa blacksheep trap and syndrome. WTF are you echoboomboom?

Shandana, good to see you back. been a while. :)

Good writing as always, understated, but packed with a punch (pun not intended)

Deeply depressing and doubly disturbing!