Persecution of Religious Minorities In Islamic Countries

#341 Posted by tahir,

Miss FG???

Re: # 339
Oh! I knew this. I thought there was some Miss 'FG' sort of anecdote you were hiding from us!

PS: I saw Miss 'FG' recently board a plane. She is double her original size now. But that face can easily launch a thousand unguided missiles at the Camp Office Rawalpindi.

She's being under-utilised by the copulation-coalition.

Re: # 321
"These mofos have no shame."

Up against the falling dollar, how can shame rise and shine?

#336 Posted by tahir,

Zubaida Jalal (Minister for Education) was assigned the task of revising the Madrassa/School curriculum. All text books upto Primary level were sent to Washington and revised there. Most important deletions were some Qura'anic references and Surahs. These were rejected by the FATA people who refused to use them even though the Wafaq-ul-Madaris (and obviously Text Book Board) had accepted them.

Re: # 317
Mr. ZeeMax may boost your economy if he decides to cross over from Wagha border into India.

He's on a scholarly missiom and has just strated the 'Over-endowed men's fund for the alleviation of poverty through whatever means'.

Be afraid of him.

"maulana urstruly: I know inflation is bad in pakiland but you've gone from 1000 baked ninja chix to 1600 baked ninja chix."

What an animal you must be to think of children in this way! Get married soon, have your own daughters, watch them burn with their 'saris', and tell me how you feel.

Re: # 316
Dear un-believing Godfinger-stuck-in-your-you-know-where,

"Now only fools and idiots will holler themselves hoarse to proclaim to the world that their sets of fairy tales are more correct then the other ones"

You believe in nothing, so return to the athiest camp quietly.

Re: # 314
Let's all benefit from the knowledge about Miss Jalal.

Yes, go on, you were saying....?

#333 Posted by mabdullah,

Haha Abdullah Bhai, are you new here? I suggest you visit Off the Wall in the Unplugged tab.

This is nothing ... very mild stuff.

Re: # 312
Dear Truly,

The answer to your questions is one big YES. Why ask, just tell them plainly?

Those who live watching campus violence in the States (sometimes four times in one week) cannot be expected to show love for hildren from our faith.

"US-appointed k... m.... dictator"

Yes that's another thing they'll be taking care of after finding no WMDs anywhere. Our man is a genuine KMD!

(Everybody claps and laughs!)

#293 zeemax

i agree. however, hate speech at times is so disgusting. look at this sample of hate speech on pkpolitics.com

i ask...should not be there certain code of ethics?

mbokhari on May 3rd, 2008 11:27 am

And, oh, stop worshiping your Bakra Altaf Hussain who is the second incarnation of the false prophet of Qadianis, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad mal’oon …I hope Altaf Hussain croaks while on the toilet like Kafir Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (So there!)...

http://letusbuildpakistan.blogspot.com

Ras (#260),

Brief comments on theological issues: These issues were discussed in detail in the “Ahmadiyya hearings” of 1974 … but the government refused to release the transcripts. Go figure!!!

Mullah’s claim that “Finality” has always been a clear-cut issue, is flat wrong. Well-reputed scholars throughout Islamic history have accepted continuation of prophethood. Of course, ummah thinks that Issa from two thousand years ago will descend from above the clouds as the future prophet … what can I say?

Review #217 from Urstruly. He’ has finally (no pun intended) realized that “Finality” is a misplaced notion … and now insists that “right or wrong is quite relative here”.

Despite theological issues, the larger point you are making … that religious discrimination would hurt Pakistan itself, remains valid.

+++

Sanatani (#285),

In the “last prophet/last mosque” hadith, something apparently got lost in translation. Here “last” means the “greatest model” for others to follow.

The Prophet’s mosque continues to serve as the model mosque. More mosques have been built, but they are based on the model of his mosque.

Similarly, his prophethood serves as the model for future prophets … in that prophethood can be attained by following in his footsteps and through the message (Quran) he delivered.

Re: # 328; also urstruly sahib,
"20. Both the Quran and the Traditions of the Prophet Muhammad are the primary sources of knowledge in Islam."

I suppose the 'Traditions of the Prophet' means 'Ahaadith'. Apart from the Quran itself, and a few early books on 'sira-un-nabi', in my opinion these are invaluable in gaining insight into the daily workings of an Islamic state, not to mention individuals.

I have been lead to believe by the writings of Tahir sahib that the Hadith literature is not authentic and cannot be used to be called upon for such guidance. The english translation of the Quran by Mohammed Asad is deemed to be sufficient in such matters.

I'd tend to agree (partly) with this approach especially applied to Ahadith in clear contrast to what the Quran wants its adherents to do. But there are questions regarding day to day activities of the Muslim Ummah that remain ambiguous and in my opinion the Hadith literature does attempt to fill in this apparent void.

Also, there is a growing presence of these parvezi taarik-e-hasith people who I still regard as Muslim but many differ from my personal interpretation here.

I'd return to this board in a day or so; this should give yourself, and others, to explain what's been bugging me for a long time.

Kind regards.

Re: # 329

correction:

....becomes acute aware..... SHOULD READ

............acutely aware..

Thanks

Re: # 328; urstruly sahib,

I am very grateful for a detailed response; having been brought up in a Hanafi Sunni household, I am aware of all that, but grateful for the reminder nevertheless. What I meant is the 'initial introduction'; however, should someone care to go into detail of their faith, offered by them and not necessarily asked by me, I would make individual corrections in my mind based on my understanding of Islam; I admit it may not always be perfect.

The point I was trying to get across is different though; I was trying to elaborate on inter-communal differences between my own background and those of our shia bretheren. I class them as Muslims based on their 'introduction' to me as such; one also becomes acute aware of many fundamental differences between the sunnis and the shia; also, there are many breakaway (or almost breakaway) sects within shia theology. My question was pertaining to these differences. Some aspects may even be considered the complete opposite by an outsider.

Surely, they can't both be true?

Kind regards.

akcheema

Your question in # 72 was "If someone comes to me and says they are muslims, that is sufficient for me to accept them as such."

There are two ways to look at it. Your way and the objective way. Remember right after 9/11 several sikhs in US were killed by mobs because they looked like talibans. This was because people looked at them for their apperances.

The objective criteria that decides whther a person is Muslim is not is straightfrowrd. A person is considered a Muslim only when he belives in every beleif listed in Qura'n. Even the violation of one single belief casts a Muslim outside of the fold of Islam. A categorical list of these beliefs is given below:


GOD

1. A Muslim believes in One God, Supreme and Eternal, Infinite and Mighty, Merciful and Compassionate, Creator and Provider.

2. God has no father nor mother, no sons nor daughters. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered. None equal to Him. He is God of all mankind, not of a special tribe or race.

3. God is High and Supreme but He is very near to the pious thoughtful believers; He answers their prayers and helps them. He loves the people who love Him and forgives their sins. He gives them peace, happiness, knowledge and success.

4. God is the Loving and the Provider, the Generous and the Benevolent, the Rich and the Independent, the Forgiving and the Clement, the Patient and the Appreciative, the Unique and the Protector, the Judge and the Peace. God's attributes are mentioned in the Quran.

5. God creates in man the mind to understand, the soul and conscience to be good and righteous, the feelings and sentiments to be kind and humane. If we try to count His favours upon us, we cannot, because they are countless.

6. In return for all the great favours and mercy, God does not need anything from us, because he is Needless and Independent.

7. God asks us to know Him, to love Him and to enforce His Law for our own benefit and our own good.

GODS MESSENGERS

1. A Muslim believes in all the Messengers and Prophets of God without any discrimination.

2. All messengers were mortals, human beings, endowed with Divine revelations and appointed by God to teach mankind. The Holy Quran mentions the names of 25 messengers and prophets and states that there are others. These include Noah, Abrahim, Ishmael, Isaac, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. Their message is the same and it is Islam and it came from One and the Same Source; God, and it is to submit to His will and to obey his law, ie, to become a Muslim.

3. Mohammad (pbuh) is the last in the chain of all prophets



SCRIPTURES

1. A Muslim believes in all scriptures and revelations of God, as they were complete and in their original versions.

2. Revelations were given to guide the people to the right path of God. The Quran refers to the books revealed to Abrahim, Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad.

3. Today, the books before the Quran do not exist in their original form. They are lost or corrupted or concealed. Weakness in the early period of Judaism and Christianity are partly responsible.

4. Today the Quran is the only authentic and complete book of God. (No scholar has questioned the fact that the Quran today is the same as it was more than 1400 years ago. Muslims till today memorize the Quran word by word as a whole or in part.).

5. God who revealed the Quran is protecting it from being lost, corrupted, or concealed.

ANGELS

1. A Muslim believes in the angels of God.

2. They are purely spiritual and splendid beings created by God. They require no food or drink or sleep. They have no physical desires nor material needs.

3. Angels spend their time in the service of God. Each charged with a certain duty. Angels cannot be seen by the naked eyes. Knowledge and truth are not entirely confined to sensory knowledge or sensory perception alone.

DAY OF JUDGEMENT

1. A Muslim believes in the day of Judgement.

2. This world as we know it will come to an end and the dead will rise to stand for their final and fair trial. Everything we do, say, make, intend and think are accounted for and kept in accurate records. They are brought up on the day of Judgement.

3. People with good records will be generously rewarded and warmly welcomed to God's Heaven. People with bad records will be fairly punished and cast into Hell.

4. The real nature of Heaven and Hell are known to God only, but they are described by God in man's familiar terms in the Quran.

5. If some good deeds are seen not to get full appreciation and credit in this life, they will receive full compensation and be widely acknowledged on the Day of Judgement.

6. If some people who commit sins, neglect God and indulge in immoral activities seem superficially successful and prosperous in this life, absolute justice will be done to them on the Day of Judgement.

7. The time of the Day of Judgement is only known to God and God alone.


ABSOLUTE & TIMELESS GOD

1. A Muslim believes in "Qadaa" and "Qadar".

2. "Qadaa" and "Qadar" means the Timeless Knowledge of God and His power to plan and execute His plans. God is not indifferent to this world nor is He neutral to it.

3. God is Wise, Just and Loving and whatever He does must have a good motive, although we may fail sometimes to understand it fully.

4. We should have strong faith in God and accept whatever He does because our knowledge is limited and our thinking is based on individual consideration, whereas His knowledge is limitless and He plans on a universal basis.

5. Man should think, plan, and make sound choices, but if things do not happen the way he wants, he should not lose faith and surrender himself to mental strains or shattering worries.

PURPOSE OF LIFE

1. A Muslim believes that the purpose of life is to worship God.

2. Worshipping God does not mean we spend our entire lives in constant seclusion and absolute meditation. To worship God is to live life according to His commands, not to run away from it.

3. To worship God is to know Him, to love Him, to obey His commands, to enforce His laws in every aspect of life, to serve His cause by doing right and shunning evil and to be just to Him, to ourselves and to our fellow human beings.

HIERARCHY OF MAN

1. A Muslim believes that man enjoys an especially high ranking status in the hierarchy of all known creatures.

2. Man occupies this distinguished position because he alone is gifted with rational faculties and spiritual aspirations as well as powers of action.

3. Man is not a condemned race from birth to death, but a dignified being potentially capable of good and noble achievements.

EVERY HUMAN BEING IS BORN MUSLIM

1. A Muslim believes that every person is born "Muslim".

2. Every person is endowed by God with spiritual potential and intellectual inclination that can make him a good Muslim.

3. Every person's birth takes place according to the will of God in realization of His plans and in submission to His commands.

4. A Muslim believes that every person is born free from sin.

5. When the person reaches the age of maturity and if he is sane, he becomes accountable for all his deeds and intentions. Man is free from sin until he commits sin.

6. There is no inherited sin, no original sin. Adam committed the first sin, he prayed to God for pardon, and God granted Adam pardon.

7. A Muslim believes that man must work out his salvation through the guidance of God.

8. No one can act on behalf of another or intercede between him and God.

9. In order, to obtain salvation a person must combine faith and action, belief and practice. Faith without doing good deeds is as insufficient as doing good deeds without faith.

10. A Muslim believes that God does not hold any person responsible until he has shown him the Right Way.

11. If people do not know and have no way of knowing about Islam, they will not be responsible for failing to be Muslim. Every Muslim must preach Islam words and in action.

12. A Muslim believes that faith is not complete when it is followed blindly or accepted unquestioningly.

13. Man must build his faith on well-grounded convictions beyond any reasonable doubt and above uncertainty.

14. Islam insured freedom to believe and forbids compulsion in religion. (one of the oldest synagogues and one of the oldest churches in the world are in Muslim countries).

15. A Muslim believes that the Quran is the word of God revealed to prophet Muhammad through the Angel Gabriel.

16. The Quran was revealed from God on various occasions to answer questions, solve problems, settle disputes and to be man's best guide to the truth.

17. The Quran was revealed in Arabic and it is still in its original and complete Arabic version until today. It is memorized by millions.

18. A Muslim believes in a clear distinction between the Quran and the Traditions of the Prophet Muhammad.

19. Whereas the Quran is the word of God, the Traditions of Prophet Muhammad (his teachings, sayings, and actions) are the practical interpretations of the Quran.

20. Both the Quran and the Traditions of the Prophet Muhammad are the primary sources of knowledge in Islam.

Re: # 326; urstruly sahib,

I apologise on my part for overlooking this; I take it IT IS my post you responded to (since I wrote no: 325)?

I was referring to my earlier posts (No: 72 and No: 197); I admit the former was in response to Chauhan sahib's queries where I did ask for more clarification on certain points. Your name was mentioned too in the context of those with the necessary knowledge and insight.

The latter was addressed to Tahir sahib; though I wouldn't mind any learned comments by people of equal distinction in this area as the un-answered queries are the same as in No:72.

I realise about the day-job thing; I have one too and being on the other side of the world, the timings can sometimes get mixed up. I do apologise if this may have caused undue inconvenience for some.

Kind regards.